335 réponses à ce sujet

[CaptainCommander]

Restrider wrote...

Btw, why is everyone convinced that Udina was indoctrinated?
I know it was mentioned as a possibility for his behaviour, but I always thought he allied himself with Cerberus out of desperation or maybe having connections to them (cue Udina's racisto speech in the renegade end of ME1) since all time.

EDI states during the Leviathan missions if they take place after the coup that Udina was indoctrinated. At least on my playthrough it did.

[Ithurael]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Ithurael wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

The worst part is that when he wakes up, Shepard gets to talk to TIM again. Apparently, even the minor antagonist hasn't been dealt with. No resolution to that conflict, either. I suppose Anderson is also alive, though, so that's something. I'm really looking forward to the next game where Shepard picks himself up, dusts himself off and gets shot by a Reaper.

I really like how the "Take Earth back" is played off in the final scene. With IT, you only take back two blocks and then there's rubble. Absolutely stunning how well that goes.

IT is a way to view the ending.

You can go literal interpretation or IT interpretation. Either way, the ending is the ending.

Well no, because if IT is true, the Reapers are still there, and the war isn't over.

So either IT is true, and the story continues, or Plotholes Galore is true, and it's truly the ending.

And that's the point. People can't accept that the story isn't over. That's why people don't believe.

Inb4 "Bioware says it's over111!!1"

I have a funny feeling that contrary could be said for others. We have seen how the story ends. Now, the dlc they add, expands on the journey from A to B.

The reason why I believe it is over is that:
- in one interpretation the story really is over

Why would bioware possibly release more? You can believe in IT, but you will be left with the same content as literalists. How you perceive the narrative is your choice. Some choose to view the narrative as IT (steak), some as a cheap hamburger (bad writing/literal) and some as gormet (pro ender/literal). How we perceive the narrative does not prove/guarantee that more content is going to be delivered it is just how we perceive the narrative.

[Aiyie]

Restrider wrote...

Btw, why is everyone convinced that Udina was indoctrinated?
I know it was mentioned as a possibility for his behaviour, but I always thought he allied himself with Cerberus out of desperation or maybe having connections to them (cue Udina's racisto speech in the renegade end of ME1) since all time.

i always kinda thought this.

desperate power grab, trying to gobble up what he can before everything comes crashing down.

never once thought Udina had been indoctrinated.

[Bill Casey]

Restrider wrote...

Btw, why is everyone convinced that Udina was indoctrinated?

Illusive Man: "Councilor Udina is... (dot dot dot) amenable"

a·me·na·ble  /əˈmēnəbəl/Adjective(of a person) Open and responsive to suggestion; easily persuaded or controlled.

suspicious pause is suspicious...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:39 .

[KyreneZA]

Bill Casey wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Btw, why is everyone convinced that Udina was indoctrinated?

Illusive Man: "Councilor Udina is... (dot dot dot) amenable"

a·me·na·ble  /əˈmēnəbəl/Adjective(of a person) Open and responsive to suggestion; easily persuaded or controlled.

suspicious pause is suspicious...

Open to interpretation is open to interpretation...

Someone could be "amenable" because they are known to be power-hungry, or can be bought, or any number of other reasons as long as the right carrot is dangled in front of them.

If Udina was indoctrinated, pray tell, where/how/when was he exposed to Reaper tech?

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Because Indoctrination can have a strong influence on the Weak-Minded.

[Nightdragon8]

Kyrene wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Restrider wrote...

Btw, why is everyone convinced that Udina was indoctrinated?

Illusive Man: "Councilor Udina is... (dot dot dot) amenable"

a·me·na·ble  /əˈmēnəbəl/Adjective(of a person) Open and responsive to suggestion; easily persuaded or controlled.

suspicious pause is suspicious...

Open to interpretation is open to interpretation...

Someone could be "amenable" because they are known to be power-hungry, or can be bought, or any number of other reasons as long as the right carrot is dangled in front of them.

If Udina was indoctrinated, pray tell, where/how/when was he exposed to Reaper tech?

Considering Cerberus pretty much turned into a Reaper front, could have easily put something into his office hell how do we know the Asari assistant isn't some Cerberus agent and isn't spiking his coffee? or whatever he drinks.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

If I give my opinion I have to go into a discussion group.

[Grubas]

But shep is indoctrinated.... that way or the other.

bw said that they cut the inodctrination sequence because of gameplay issues... Not because of story issues.
This means bw prepared shep for this "lore-wise" the inodoctrination just didnt play out so strong that it was relevant.

I mean, why do you think TIM could control Shepard and Anderson? Because both were at different early stages of indoctrination.

[Indy_S]

Is indoctrination a form of muscle control, though? It hasn't been at any other points of the game.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Grubas wrote...

But shep is indoctrinated.... that way or the other.

bw said that they cut the inodctrination sequence because of gameplay issues... Not because of story issues.
This means bw prepared shep for this "lore-wise" the inodoctrination just didnt play out so strong that it was relevant.

I mean, why do you think TIM could control Shepard and Anderson? Because both were at different early stages of indoctrination.

Seems like they left those clues to indoctrination in the game after they scrapped the indoctrination ending, maybe because of time constraints or to cause speculations ™. These clues are discovered by ITers now..

[Grubas]

Indy_S wrote...

Is indoctrination a form of muscle control, though? It hasn't been at any other points of the game.

Well ... you know... 

[Caiden012]

If the IT is true would that mean that the destroy and refuse endings are "good" endings?

Modifié par Caiden012, 18 janvier 2013 - 11:09 .

[KyreneZA]

Caiden012 wrote...

If the IT is true would that mean that the destroy and refuse endings are "good" endings?

Some IT purists would say only Destroy. I would say both, yes, but prefer the word "better." Synthesis and Control are just as "good" if you truly want to RP Shepard succumbing (like a Suicide Mission where only Shepard survives).

[Jadebaby]

[JasonShepard]

Grubas wrote...

But shep is indoctrinated.... that way or the other.

bw said that they cut the inodctrination sequence because of gameplay issues... Not because of story issues.
This means bw prepared shep for this "lore-wise" the inodoctrination just didnt play out so strong that it was relevant.

I mean, why do you think TIM could control Shepard and Anderson? Because both were at different early stages of indoctrination.

They probably cut out the stronger, definitely indoctrinated clues when they decided they weren't going to do it. Have we even been told by the devs what the would-be clues were?

As for TIM - that wasn't indoctrination. Indoctrination involves the mind going along with what it's being told to do - so if Shepard and Anderson were suddenly agreeing with TIM, that would be indoctrination. TIM is closer to Domination - which is what the Leviathans were doing, and is related tech - just without taking the mind off to a 'cold, dark, feeling'.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 18 janvier 2013 - 11:51 .

[Grubas]

JasonShepard wrote...

Grubas wrote...

But shep is indoctrinated.... that way or the other.

bw said that they cut the inodctrination sequence because of gameplay issues... Not because of story issues.
This means bw prepared shep for this "lore-wise" the inodoctrination just didnt play out so strong that it was relevant.

I mean, why do you think TIM could control Shepard and Anderson? Because both were at different early stages of indoctrination.

They probably cut out the stronger, definitely indoctrinated clues when they decided they weren't going to do it. Have we even been told by the devs what the would-be clues were?

As for TIM - that wasn't indoctrination. Indoctrination involves the mind going along with what it's being told to do - so if Shepard and Anderson were suddenly agreeing with TIM, that would be indoctrination. TIM is closer to Domination - which is what the Leviathans were doing, and is related tech - just without taking the mind off to a 'cold, dark, feeling'.

TIM acquired Leviathan tech? Now this thread is fun. 
I think its supposed to be indoctrination, but they went with the rule of cool. And didnt check what they established in the past.

[JasonShepard]

Grubas wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

SNIP

As for TIM - that wasn't indoctrination. Indoctrination involves the mind going along with what it's being told to do - so if Shepard and Anderson were suddenly agreeing with TIM, that would be indoctrination. TIM is closer to Domination - which is what the Leviathans were doing, and is related tech - just without taking the mind off to a 'cold, dark, feeling'.

TIM acquired Leviathan tech? Now this thread is fun. 
I think its supposed to be indoctrination, but they went with the rule of cool. And didnt check what they established in the past.

That's not what I meant. I meant TIM had been working with Indoctrination tech, and developed something similar to the Domination effect that Indoctrination was originally developed from. The similarities are there, so that's my explanation.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 18 janvier 2013 - 12:56 .

[dorktainian]

well TIM is building a human reaper.

TIM is turning his soldiers into the next generation of Collectors.

[JasonShepard]

dorktainian wrote...

well TIM is building a human reaper.

I'm assuming that you're referring to the link in your sig? I wanted to follow it, since it sounds interesting, but can't since I'm not a member of the IT boards (and, no offence, I'm not making an account in order to read one theory). You might want to mention that to whoever's running the boards - it shouldn't hurt to let anyone read stuff on there, just make sure they get an account in order to comment.

[Restrider]

JasonShepard wrote...

dorktainian wrote...

well TIM is building a human reaper.

I'm assuming that you're referring to the link in your sig? I wanted to follow it, since it sounds interesting, but can't since I'm not a member of the IT boards (and, no offence, I'm not making an account in order to read one theory). You might want to mention that to whoever's running the boards - it shouldn't hurt to let anyone read stuff on there, just make sure they get an account in order to comment.

From the same guy, but posted here on BSN a few weeks ago:
http://social.biowar.../index/15112324
You're welcome.

Modifié par Restrider, 18 janvier 2013 - 03:33 .

[szkasypcze]

the question is why hasn't this thread been closed yet? All indoctrination threads have been locked by Chris and new ones get closed after 10-15 minutes of existence. What is going on??

[Ithurael]

szkasypcze wrote...

the question is why hasn't this thread been closed yet? All indoctrination threads have been locked by Chris and new ones get closed after 10-15 minutes of existence. What is going on??

Both him and stan get online around 1pm EST (USA) I noticed. THough this is not- specifically speaking - and IT discussion thread. Rather it is a thread on Indoctrination itself, with some IT elements.

[Cyberfrog81]

JasonShepard wrote...

As for TIM - that wasn't indoctrination. Indoctrination involves the mind going along with what it's being told to do - so if Shepard and Anderson were suddenly agreeing with TIM, that would be indoctrination. TIM is closer to Domination - which is what the Leviathans were doing, and is related tech - just without taking the mind off to a 'cold, dark, feeling'.

Or... it's deceptive. Audio and visuals indicate that Shepard's mind is assaulted by a Reaper. Can be explained as a side effect of the tech, but that's boring.

If there is a Reaper that can "indoctrinate" as if he were a Leviathan, it's Harbinger.

[szkasypcze]

OK I'll make this thread locked. Somehow using keywords like indoctrination theory makes get threads locked.....

INDOCTRINATION THEORY.