352 réponses à ce sujet

[CronoDragoon]

I like the theory that the Leviathans either created the original Crucible plans or modified the plans. They certainly know what the Catalyst was and would be able to design a weapon to link to it or modify plans for a Crucible/Citadel link to incorporate the Catalyst. Moreover, it would explain how the plans kept surviving the destruction of every single cycle if the Leviathans were always there to reintroduce them to each cycle while keeping themselves hidden.

[silverexile17s]

CronoDragoon wrote...

I like the theory that the Leviathans either created the original Crucible plans or modified the plans. They certainly know what the Catalyst was and would be able to design a weapon to link to it or modify plans for a Crucible/Citadel link to incorporate the Catalyst. Moreover, it would explain how the plans kept surviving the destruction of every single cycle if the Leviathans were always there to reintroduce them to each cycle while keeping themselves hidden.

But if that was true, they would have known the Crucible needed to link to the Citadel, and they would know what the Catalyst was, and about the A.I. in the Citadel. Why not tell us this if they know? Answer: They must not. Henseforth, they likely aren't the ones that created it. Although, i COULD by that they were working to preserve th eplans through the cycles.

[shodiswe]

Either the Leviathans had a hand in it or maybe one cycle managed to learn more about the reapers than any of the other cycles and concived the idea to break the cycle by completing the catalysts project.

It's hard to immagine that someone who doesn't know or understand the goal of the catalyst would concive of the idea..

Maybe it was a synthetic race that came up with the idea, they could "comprehend" the reapers and the catalysts logic. Maybe they actualy hacked a Reaper, maybe a defeated reaper, or somehow managed to gain acces to the catalysts systems and found enough to realize what was happening. And, like the Geth they wanted to stop the cycle just to "survive", to accomplish this, against a supperior enemy they decided that they needed to achive the goal of the Catalyst to end it's cycle.

Something as crazy as the Crusible can't be created without understandign the motives of your enemy, unless it originaly had a very different purpose and the catalyst "repurposed" the Crusible.

[Maxster_]

Leem_0001 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
The Protheans knew about the Reapers before they arrived. Why do you assume other cycles didn't?

How do you come to this conclusion? Did I miss some retcon in ME3?
The original Mass Effect game established that the Reapers wiped out galactic civilizations starting with a surprise attack, without the organic races being aware of the threat until the harvest was already underway:
They opened the Citadel portal, took out the centre of Galactic government and commerce before anybody even knew what hit them, shut down the relay network, and then proceeded to harvest all the isolated worlds.
The Protheans built the beacons *after* the harvest started, and they had no prior knowledge of the Reapers.

There is a revelation from what you know.
Javik tells you that the protheans had discovered evidence of the Reapers before their arrival. (you can double-check the ME wiki for sources. It's all there) They're preperations to combat them was half the reason they wanted to unite all the orgianics in a single empire, and the reason they discovered the Crucible plans. However, they never found out how the Reapers planned to invade. Not till it was too late.
P.S. The beacons existed long before the invasion. They were part of the prothean information network. The message detailing their failure, and warrning the next cycle of what was to come, what put in after the Reapers came in.

Yeah, Javik says all this, Silver is correct. It IS retcon to what we were told in ME1 though (not the part about the information network being in existance prior to Reaper attack - that was highlighted in ME1).

And Silver, would you agree that it is pretty crucial information that is required to understand some of what is going on? Therefore to make it additonal paid DLC is pretty dispicable?

This "retcon" doesn't make a lick of sense.
Not only that directly contradicts Vigil's words, but also displays protheans as pathetic idiots. Who knew about reapers invasion in advance, and still lost to a surprise decapitation strike.

Eventually, the Protheans faced a hostile machine intelligence which
threatened to overwhelm them. To defeat the machines, the Protheans
decided to unite all of the galaxy's sentient organic life under their
empire. Organic races that resisted the Protheans were soundly crushed.
In time, each of the servant races assimilated into Prothean culture and
came to think of themselves as Prothean. The Prothean Empire held its
own against the machines in a conflict known as the "Metacon War".
At some point the Protheans learned of the existence of the Reapers
and their cycles of galactic destruction through studying the ruins of
other extinguished civilizations. Several countermeasures were devised,
including the Crucible,
which was based on designs left behind by previous civilizations. In
the event that the Reapers prevailed, the Protheans also began extensive
observation of primitive species such as the asari, hanar, humans, quarians, salarians, and turians; it was hoped that some Protheans would survive the Reapers' purge and go on to unite these species to create a new empire.

So, protheans actually didn't create their empire as an answer to a reapers threat.
But that doesn't matter.
This bull**** comes from paid DLC, and makes absolutely no sense, but still, Javik is a simple soldier..
So, okay, we suddenly knew, that protheans got Crucible plans long before invasion.
And those plans were sent without information about Citadel being relay in dark space, and master control unit of the relay network. This is obvious, because of a fact, that Protheans lost war in a first day, when they lost Citadel to a surprise decapitation strike.
Of course, protheans also lost all records about hidden installations and colonies, census data and star charts. They hadn't even bothered to hide them.
Of course, this makes not only protheans as a hopeless morons, but also previous cycle.
Who sent information about reapers threat with Crucible plans, but forgot to add a main reason they lost a war - Citadel being relay in dark space, and master control unit of the relay network.
Of course, protheans are even more idiotic, because they hide Crucible plans so that no one will ever found them, and removed any information about reapers threat, Citadel being relay in dark space, and master control unit of the relay network.
So, somehow, Crucible plans ended up in Mars research station, and were hidden, and all information about reapers was removed. But, information about relay activation, and FTL was easily accessible.
Anyway, those plans somehow teleported into Mars station, after relay network was shut down. I guess because "humans are special".

[silverexile17s]

Maxster_ wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Jassu1979 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...
The Protheans knew about the Reapers before they arrived. Why do you assume other cycles didn't?

How do you come to this conclusion? Did I miss some retcon in ME3?
The original Mass Effect game established that the Reapers wiped out galactic civilizations starting with a surprise attack, without the organic races being aware of the threat until the harvest was already underway:
They opened the Citadel portal, took out the centre of Galactic government and commerce before anybody even knew what hit them, shut down the relay network, and then proceeded to harvest all the isolated worlds.
The Protheans built the beacons *after* the harvest started, and they had no prior knowledge of the Reapers.

There is a revelation from what you know.
Javik tells you that the protheans had discovered evidence of the Reapers before their arrival. (you can double-check the ME wiki for sources. It's all there) They're preperations to combat them was half the reason they wanted to unite all the orgianics in a single empire, and the reason they discovered the Crucible plans. However, they never found out how the Reapers planned to invade. Not till it was too late.
P.S. The beacons existed long before the invasion. They were part of the prothean information network. The message detailing their failure, and warrning the next cycle of what was to come, what put in after the Reapers came in.

Yeah, Javik says all this, Silver is correct. It IS retcon to what we were told in ME1 though (not the part about the information network being in existance prior to Reaper attack - that was highlighted in ME1).

And Silver, would you agree that it is pretty crucial information that is required to understand some of what is going on? Therefore to make it additonal paid DLC is pretty dispicable?

This "retcon" doesn't make a lick of sense.
Not only that directly contradicts Vigil's words, but also displays protheans as pathetic idiots. Who knew about reapers invasion in advance, and still lost to a surprise decapitation strike.

Eventually, the Protheans faced a hostile machine intelligence which
threatened to overwhelm them. To defeat the machines, the Protheans
decided to unite all of the galaxy's sentient organic life under their
empire. Organic races that resisted the Protheans were soundly crushed.
In time, each of the servant races assimilated into Prothean culture and
came to think of themselves as Prothean. The Prothean Empire held its
own against the machines in a conflict known as the "Metacon War".
At some point the Protheans learned of the existence of the Reapers
and their cycles of galactic destruction through studying the ruins of
other extinguished civilizations. Several countermeasures were devised,
including the Crucible,
which was based on designs left behind by previous civilizations. In
the event that the Reapers prevailed, the Protheans also began extensive
observation of primitive species such as the asari, hanar, humans, quarians, salarians, and turians; it was hoped that some Protheans would survive the Reapers' purge and go on to unite these species to create a new empire.

So, protheans actually didn't create their empire as an answer to a reapers threat.
But that doesn't matter.
This bull**** comes from paid DLC, and makes absolutely no sense, but still, Javik is a simple soldier..
So, okay, we suddenly knew, that protheans got Crucible plans long before invasion.
And those plans were sent without information about Citadel being relay in dark space, and master control unit of the relay network. This is obvious, because of a fact, that Protheans lost war in a first day, when they lost Citadel to a surprise decapitation strike.
Of course, protheans also lost all records about hidden installations and colonies, census data and star charts. They hadn't even bothered to hide them.
Of course, this makes not only protheans as a hopeless morons, but also previous cycle.
Who sent information about reapers threat with Crucible plans, but forgot to add a main reason they lost a war - Citadel being relay in dark space, and master control unit of the relay network.
Of course, protheans are even more idiotic, because they hide Crucible plans so that no one will ever found them, and removed any information about reapers threat, Citadel being relay in dark space, and master control unit of the relay network.
So, somehow, Crucible plans ended up in Mars research station, and were hidden, and all information about reapers was removed. But, information about relay activation, and FTL was easily accessible.
Anyway, those plans somehow teleported into Mars station, after relay network was shut down. I guess because "humans are special".

1. Are you that thick?
JUST four or so pages ago, I explained That based on how he said that he was programed to monitor the staisis pods, That Vigil was programed after Ilos went dark. And he stayed in low power for most of the time. And when you meet him 50,000 years later, most of what little information he had was corrupted to hell.
Nothing Vigil says contridicts Javik or the Cruicble, because Ilos was completely cut off from the galaxy when he was brought online. Therfore, he would have no clue about the spicifics of the prothean's war with the Reapers.
The most he knows about it is that (a) it happened, and ( the scientists pieced together what little they could find, which wasn't much.
Honestly. READ THE POSTS, OR STUDY THE LORE.

2. It was the main reason that they kept expanding. I never said it was the reason it was founded. Just why they kept going.
And again, all DLC is part of the lore.
And THINK FOR ONCE. If the last race knew about it, THEY wouldn't have fallen as well. And even IF someone DID find out what the Citadel was (giant Mass Relay) do you REALLY think they'd know how to work it, since that feature of the Citadel is maaged by the Keepers? If someone did find out what it was, they STILL wouldn't be aware of what would happen. You are making false assumptions again, by thinking that just because someone may have found out it was a relay, instantly means they know how to work it.
EXAMPLE: If you were in fromt of a nuclear reactor, would YOU suddenly know how to work it, when none of the people that know about it's intricate inner working and functions (Keepers) will let you get close, or minipulate anything?

And WHY would the protheans hide their census data when it's THE SEAT OF THEIR EMPIRE? They NEVER thought that it would be threatened, much less THE FIRST piece of their empire to fall. If YOU ruled the galaxy, I doubt you'd expect a magic protal to open up right behind your capitol and have death pour over everything.
Even then, the protheans were caught off guard, and hardly had time to erase much of anything.
And AGAIN, they held out for centruies. So NO, not morons. The only moron here is the one that obviously doesn't look at, or even regard any lore that doesn't corrilate with his headcannon.

And the DID have multiple plans of the Crucible - like It was on Thessia with Vendetta. HE had all the information regarding teh Crucuble and Citadel link-up. He likely had the plans too. The protheans never assumed the asari would be dicks and hide everything from the others. They also put a back-up on Mars, and there was data about it on Kajhe, the hanar homeworld. There could have been time capsules and databanks like this everywhere. All the data disks recovered im ME1? They could have been data cores as well, but they were impossible to decrypt.
They put the data EXACTALLY where people would find it. They just didn't expect them to horde the information.

And for all you know, the protheans may have used FTL to do it. They were desprate to hide the information where the Reapers couldn't find it. I mean, son't you think it's convient that all the major races (turian, salarian, elcor, volus) had ME technology, which they likely aquired from nearby prothean ruins. That could have been on purpose. Tere could have been Crucible data in each observation post created for each respective species, but not all of them survived the test of time, like Mars and Thessia.

[N7-RedFox]

fr33stylez wrote...

How could they not? Or did they say "let's start building something and see where we end up"?

If they did know what they were building, why can't subsequent cycles decipher this from the blueprints? How can you 'add' to something when you have no idea what it is?

Another question: why didn't the original creators of the Crucible simply build something that targets the Reapers?

Bioware created the Crucible and no, they probably had no clue what they were building. Hence all the plot holes

[silverexile17s]

N7-RedFox wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

How could they not? Or did they say "let's start building something and see where we end up"?

If they did know what they were building, why can't subsequent cycles decipher this from the blueprints? How can you 'add' to something when you have no idea what it is?

Another question: why didn't the original creators of the Crucible simply build something that targets the Reapers?

Bioware created the Crucible and no, they probably had no clue what they were building. Hence all the plot holes

Actually, there are no plot holes. Just unanswered questions. There isn't much connecting lore on the Crucible, but none of the current lore is broken by the Cruicble.
Although that just seems to ****** people off even worse. It makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and hard to ignore.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 02 février 2013 - 12:48 .

[JasonShepard]

Leem_0001 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

There is a revelation from what you know.
Javik tells you that the protheans had discovered evidence of the Reapers before their arrival. (you can double-check the ME wiki for sources. It's all there) They're preperations to combat them was half the reason they wanted to unite all the orgianics in a single empire, and the reason they discovered the Crucible plans. However, they never found out how the Reapers planned to invade. Not till it was too late.
P.S. The beacons existed long before the invasion. They were part of the prothean information network. The message detailing their failure, and warrning the next cycle of what was to come, what put in after the Reapers came in.

Yeah, Javik says all this, Silver is correct. It IS retcon to what we were told in ME1 though (not the part about the information network being in existance prior to Reaper attack - that was highlighted in ME1).

And Silver, would you agree that it is pretty crucial information that is required to understand some of what is going on? Therefore to make it additonal paid DLC is pretty dispicable?

I have to ask because I've been looking for this dialogue for ages: when does Javik say this? I've heard that it's only if you take him on the Geth Dreadnought - is this correct? If not where/when?
I'm not doubting it, I just want to see and hear the exact dialogue for myself.

[silverexile17s]

JasonShepard wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

There is a revelation from what you know.
Javik tells you that the protheans had discovered evidence of the Reapers before their arrival. (you can double-check the ME wiki for sources. It's all there) They're preperations to combat them was half the reason they wanted to unite all the orgianics in a single empire, and the reason they discovered the Crucible plans. However, they never found out how the Reapers planned to invade. Not till it was too late.
P.S. The beacons existed long before the invasion. They were part of the prothean information network. The message detailing their failure, and warrning the next cycle of what was to come, what put in after the Reapers came in.

Yeah, Javik says all this, Silver is correct. It IS retcon to what we were told in ME1 though (not the part about the information network being in existance prior to Reaper attack - that was highlighted in ME1).

And Silver, would you agree that it is pretty crucial information that is required to understand some of what is going on? Therefore to make it additonal paid DLC is pretty dispicable?

I have to ask because I've been looking for this dialogue for ages: when does Javik say this? I've heard that it's only if you take him on the Geth Dreadnought - is this correct? If not where/when?
I'm not doubting it, I just want to see and hear the exact dialogue for myself.

I believe he tells you when you first recrut him, and ask him about Prothean Culture, and I think again on Thessia, and finally on the Geth Dreadnought, but only if Tali is dead in your import, and you bring either EDI or Liara with you as the second squad-mate (really cheap to do that BTW - making us have to play through an import with a fave character dead to learn something that SHOULD be crucial to the lore).
he says that the protheans learned about the Reapers by studing the ruins of the past races, likely the Innusannon - the previous race from which they learned of Mass Effect Technology. Also, they supposedly found the Crucible in the mist of this digging around, but that is just speculation, since it's never directly stated. There are supposed to be other examples, (two or three) but they are diffused and random - you hear them on squad missions, and on the Normandy.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 02 février 2013 - 01:07 .

[JasonShepard]

silverexile17s wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

I have to ask because I've been looking for this dialogue for ages: when does Javik say this? I've heard that it's only if you take him on the Geth Dreadnought - is this correct? If not where/when?
I'm not doubting it, I just want to see and hear the exact dialogue for myself.

I believe he tells you when you first recrut him, and ask him about Prothean Culture, and I think again on Thessia, and finally on the Geth Dreadnought, but only if Tali is dead in your import, and you bring either EDI or Liara with you as the second squad-mate (really cheap to do that BTW - making us have to play through an import with a fave character dead to learn something that SHOULD be crucial to the lore).
he says that the protheans learned about the Reapers by studing the ruins of the past races, likely the Innusannon - the previous race from which they learned of Mass Effect Technology. Also, they supposedly found the Crucible in the mist of this digging around, but that is just speculation, since it's never directly stated. There are supposed to be other examples, (two or three) but they are diffused and random - you hear them on squad missions, and on the Normandy.

Well, I've always explored every available dialogue with him, and taken him to Thessia more than once, so it must be the geth dreadnought with dead Tali. I do recall him mentioning the Innusannon, but never that they learnt about the Reapers from them. Damn...  Time to check youtube - I am not making a playthrough explicitly for this.

[Reorte]

silverexile17s wrote...

Actually, there are no plot holes. Just unanswered questions. There isn't much connecting lore on the Crucible, but none of the current lore is broken by the Cruicble.
Although that just seems to ****** people off even worse. It makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and hard to ignore.

If you can accept the fact that as long as someone can come up with some explanation, no matter how far-fetched, then that's true I suppose.

[silverexile17s]

JasonShepard wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...

I have to ask because I've been looking for this dialogue for ages: when does Javik say this? I've heard that it's only if you take him on the Geth Dreadnought - is this correct? If not where/when?
I'm not doubting it, I just want to see and hear the exact dialogue for myself.

I believe he tells you when you first recrut him, and ask him about Prothean Culture, and I think again on Thessia, and finally on the Geth Dreadnought, but only if Tali is dead in your import, and you bring either EDI or Liara with you as the second squad-mate (really cheap to do that BTW - making us have to play through an import with a fave character dead to learn something that SHOULD be crucial to the lore).
he says that the protheans learned about the Reapers by studing the ruins of the past races, likely the Innusannon - the previous race from which they learned of Mass Effect Technology. Also, they supposedly found the Crucible in the mist of this digging around, but that is just speculation, since it's never directly stated. There are supposed to be other examples, (two or three) but they are diffused and random - you hear them on squad missions, and on the Normandy.

Well, I've always explored every available dialogue with him, and taken him to Thessia more than once, so it must be the geth dreadnought with dead Tali. I do recall him mentioning the Innusannon, but never that they learnt about the Reapers from them. Damn...  Time to check youtube - I am not making a playthrough explicitly for this.

The Innusannon being the source of the Reapers is more inferred then stated. Javic said that the prothean superiority - including Mass Effect - was learned from the Innusannon. So, it's assumed that the Innusannon were the same race they learned about the Reapers from.
And no kidding about the playthrough. You shouldn't have to learn crucial lore like that by having spicific imports.

[silverexile17s]

Reorte wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Actually, there are no plot holes. Just unanswered questions. There isn't much connecting lore on the Crucible, but none of the current lore is broken by the Cruicble.
Although that just seems to ****** people off even worse. It makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and hard to ignore.

If you can accept the fact that as long as someone can come up with some explanation, no matter how far-fetched, then that's true I suppose.

There are several pages here where I've detailed how the Crucible isn't in conflict with any of the lore.
The only problem is that there is also a patheticly limited amount of supporting lore as well.
There's no lore that truly cancels it, and no lore that truly supports it. It's like a plot point in limbo, and it pisses people off because they rarely know what the hell to make of it, when it popps up so suddenly that in your mind, you instantly lable it as "Reaper-killing Deus Ex Machina device." No real corrosponding lore. No real disproving lore. What the hell are the players supposed to interpert it with if there's no lore, coorosponding or otherwise, to link to it?
THAT put's people off: the fact that you're literally flying blind on your only hope to win.
And it could have been fixed if it had been introduced sooner, like say, in ME2 DLC, or finding refrence to it in the Collector Base. Then it wouldn't have felt so damn akward as it did to know it was Mars the whole time, RIGHT as you are on Earth at the very start of the Reaper attack. As is, even though it doesn't void the lore, the way the introduction was layed out (a series of concidences that lead Shepard to be on Earth right as the invasion kicks off) was a suspension of disbelief I haven't encountered since the Lazarus Project of ME2, and the abrubt death and ressurection of Shepard.
The execution was sub-par for the Crucible as a plot element.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 02 février 2013 - 01:30 .

[Maxster_]

Reorte wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Actually, there are no plot holes. Just unanswered questions. There isn't much connecting lore on the Crucible, but none of the current lore is broken by the Cruicble.
Although that just seems to ****** people off even worse. It makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and hard to ignore.

If you can accept the fact that as long as someone can come up with some explanation, no matter how far-fetched, then that's true I suppose.

Doesn't change the fact that ME3 story is a pure, horrible written, garbage.

[silverexile17s]

Maxster_ wrote...

Reorte wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Actually, there are no plot holes. Just unanswered questions. There isn't much connecting lore on the Crucible, but none of the current lore is broken by the Cruicble.
Although that just seems to ****** people off even worse. It makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and hard to ignore.

If you can accept the fact that as long as someone can come up with some explanation, no matter how far-fetched, then that's true I suppose.

Doesn't change the fact that ME3 story is a pure, horrible written, garbage.

Actually, ME3 is not a horrible game. Its plot ideas are no worse then the idea of the Reapers and their origins, the Thorian, biotics and Mass Effect, the Collectors, the Lazarus Project, Javik surviving Stasis, the Leviathans, and so on. The execution isn't on par with the previous games, but the plot makes more sense to the story arch then ME2's detached story did.
It may not measure up to the same level, but it, by ALL MEANS, is NOT a horrible game. Saying it's "garbage," especally without any reasons that weren't headcannoned, is just butthurt from someone that loves to do nothing but rage.
Besides, it's hard to take the word of someone that has already personally admitted he only frequents this form to troll BioWare. Even harder when he proved that he misinterperts/ignores pieces of the lore that don't support his arguement. It's not the worst of games, and people that say it is have no clue what a bad game even is. The game can stand beside (though not really stand on par with) ME1.
Any true game reviewer can tell you it's still a fun ride. Even independant internet reviewers, like "Angry Joe," can tell you as well that for all the flaws, the game is "An Awesome game. Don't ever. Get that. Wrong!."

His Review: www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFq531vkNOY
Go to 21:26 and onward from there, to see his words yourself. Or watch the whole review if you really want to.

Now, if you could STOP derailing the topic?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 02 février 2013 - 02:56 .

[Wayning_Star]

silverexile17s wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Reorte wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Actually, there are no plot holes. Just unanswered questions. There isn't much connecting lore on the Crucible, but none of the current lore is broken by the Cruicble.
Although that just seems to ****** people off even worse. It makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and hard to ignore.

If you can accept the fact that as long as someone can come up with some explanation, no matter how far-fetched, then that's true I suppose.

Doesn't change the fact that ME3 story is a pure, horrible written, garbage.

Actually, ME3 is not a horrible game. Its plot ideas are no worse then the idea of the Reapers and their origins, the Thorian, biotics and Mass Effect, the Collectors, the Lazarus Project, Javik surviving Stasis, the Leviathans, and so on. The execution isn't on par with the previous games, but the plot makes more sense to the story arch then ME2's detached story did.
It may not measure up to the same level, but it, by ALL MEANS, is NOT a horrible game. Saying it's "garbage," especally without any reasons that weren't headcannoned, is just butthurt from someone that loves to do nothing but rage.
Besides, it's hard to take the word of someone that has already personally admitted he only frequents this form to troll BioWare. Even harder when he proved that he misinterperts/ignores pieces of the lore that don't support his arguement. It's not the worst of games, and people that say it is have no clue what a bad game even is. The game can stand beside (though not really stand on par with) ME1.
Any true game reviewer can tell you it's still a fun ride. Even independant internet reviewers, like "Angry Joe," can tell you as well that for all the flaws, the game is "An Awesome game. Don't ever. Get that. Wrong!."

His Review: www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFq531vkNOY
Go to 21:26 and onward from there, to see his words yourself. Or watch the whole review if you really want to.

Now, if you could STOP derailing the topic?

if we think about it, the BSN post are like lore and a mix of peer reviews of that lore. Often we'll see observation as facts, when others knows of other lore(game experiences) that contradict 'known' lore. So the idea of lost information over billions of years, to remain hidden from reaperships claws is understandable. The Levi DLC is the notion that many things MEU remain hidden in misunderstood hieroglyphics.

[silverexile17s]

Wayning_Star wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Reorte wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Actually, there are no plot holes. Just unanswered questions. There isn't much connecting lore on the Crucible, but none of the current lore is broken by the Cruicble.
Although that just seems to ****** people off even worse. It makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and hard to ignore.

If you can accept the fact that as long as someone can come up with some explanation, no matter how far-fetched, then that's true I suppose.

Doesn't change the fact that ME3 story is a pure, horrible written, garbage.

Actually, ME3 is not a horrible game. Its plot ideas are no worse then the idea of the Reapers and their origins, the Thorian, biotics and Mass Effect, the Collectors, the Lazarus Project, Javik surviving Stasis, the Leviathans, and so on. The execution isn't on par with the previous games, but the plot makes more sense to the story arch then ME2's detached story did.
It may not measure up to the same level, but it, by ALL MEANS, is NOT a horrible game. Saying it's "garbage," especally without any reasons that weren't headcannoned, is just butthurt from someone that loves to do nothing but rage.
Besides, it's hard to take the word of someone that has already personally admitted he only frequents this form to troll BioWare. Even harder when he proved that he misinterperts/ignores pieces of the lore that don't support his arguement. It's not the worst of games, and people that say it is have no clue what a bad game even is. The game can stand beside (though not really stand on par with) ME1.
Any true game reviewer can tell you it's still a fun ride. Even independant internet reviewers, like "Angry Joe," can tell you as well that for all the flaws, the game is "An Awesome game. Don't ever. Get that. Wrong!."

His Review: www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFq531vkNOY
Go to 21:26 and onward from there, to see his words yourself. Or watch the whole review if you really want to.

Now, if you could STOP derailing the topic?

if we think about it, the BSN post are like lore and a mix of peer reviews of that lore. Often we'll see observation as facts, when others knows of other lore(game experiences) that contradict 'known' lore. So the idea of lost information over billions of years, to remain hidden from reaperships claws is understandable. The Levi DLC is the notion that many things MEU remain hidden in misunderstood hieroglyphics.

Indeed. Much still is hidden.

[Red5392]

The theory that the Leviathans created the plans for the crucible or at least directed a thrall race to do so is interesting. They could have created the intelligence (catalyst) and the crucible to power it, but instructed a thrall race to destroy the crucible after the majority of the leviathans were harvested in the hopes that the catalyst wouldn't have enough power to continue the harvest, but their desperate plan failed because the first reaper was already made and the catalyst could sustain itself in it

[RiouHotaru]

This isn't rocket science:

At some point, a prior cycle, realizing the connection between the Catalyst and the Citadel, attempted to construct a device that could make use of the Citadel's connection to the relay network to destroy the Reapers. However, as the Prothean VI stated, there was division in the ranks. A faction wanted to try and command the Reapers instead of destroying them.

Each cycle, civilizations would try adding to the design. After all, you CAN intuit construction by looking at an existing design, to guess what sort of part or mechanism should go where. Each time, the device was further improved and refined, but while the construction was lost, the plans were not.

Those plans eventually were perfected by the Protheans, who failed to construct the FINISHED device. However, as before, the plans were preserved in their archives, where the Reapers couldn't get to them. Those plans would eventually be found by Liara.

There, problem solved.

[Indy_S]

Unfortunately, as problem-solving as that is, it is not even considered in the narrative. It's headcanon.

[silverexile17s]

Indy_S wrote...

Unfortunately, as problem-solving as that is, it is not even considered in the narrative. It's headcanon.

He's right. That's not included in the narritive.

[N7-RedFox]

silverexile17s wrote...

N7-RedFox wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

How could they not? Or did they say "let's start building something and see where we end up"?

If they did know what they were building, why can't subsequent cycles decipher this from the blueprints? How can you 'add' to something when you have no idea what it is?

Another question: why didn't the original creators of the Crucible simply build something that targets the Reapers?

Bioware created the Crucible and no, they probably had no clue what they were building. Hence all the plot holes

Actually, there are no plot holes. Just unanswered questions. There isn't much connecting lore on the Crucible, but none of the current lore is broken by the Cruicble.
Although that just seems to ****** people off even worse. It makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and hard to ignore.

So the fact that they completely abandoned that whole 'Haestrom's Sun is collapsing' plot and replaced it entirely with 'lets build a weapon we know absolutely didley squat about' isn't a plot hole? Ok....

[Indy_S]

Abrupt redirection, still bad from a narrative standpoint. Not quite a plot hole. And I wish something had been made of the Haestrom plotline and that the Crucible was either removed or better integrated into the story.

[CaptainCommander]

fr33stylez wrote...

How could they not? Or did they say "let's start building something and see where we end up"?

If they did know what they were building, why can't subsequent cycles decipher this from the blueprints? How can you 'add' to something when you have no idea what it is?

Another question: why didn't the original creators of the Crucible simply build something that targets the Reapers?

The VI on Thessia tells us that the Crucible is old and was changed over many cycles and at one point was incorporated to use the Catalyst. So my guess is the original device was simply the Destory ending. A way to kill all Reapers and then Indoctrinated agents (just like with the Protheans) changed the plans so that the device would sync with the Citadel and the catalyst could continue its work of Harvesting everyone. 

[silverexile17s]

N7-RedFox wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

N7-RedFox wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

How could they not? Or did they say "let's start building something and see where we end up"?

If they did know what they were building, why can't subsequent cycles decipher this from the blueprints? How can you 'add' to something when you have no idea what it is?

Another question: why didn't the original creators of the Crucible simply build something that targets the Reapers?

Bioware created the Crucible and no, they probably had no clue what they were building. Hence all the plot holes

Actually, there are no plot holes. Just unanswered questions. There isn't much connecting lore on the Crucible, but none of the current lore is broken by the Cruicble.
Although that just seems to ****** people off even worse. It makes it stick out like a sore thumb, and hard to ignore.

So the fact that they completely abandoned that whole 'Haestrom's Sun is collapsing' plot and replaced it entirely with 'lets build a weapon we know absolutely didley squat about' isn't a plot hole? Ok....

EXACTALLY.
Since it's never explained upon, it's unanswered question. NOT a plot hole.
NOW your getting it.