352 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Catalyst: Technology you rely on will also be affected. But the survivors should have little difficulty repairing the damage.

The pulse affects EVERYTHING technological. Which is why synthetic life dies. They're nothing but technology.

The only thing the Crucible's condition(screwed up, damaged, intact) measures is the how badly it is damaged.

Which is why one can see functioning ships in the epilogue departing Earth. 

Also why Biotics don't all simultaneously keel over dead from their amps overloading and frying their brains.

Also why Shepard can survive, despite his or her synthetic implants.

If the target is "technology", then either it's all destroyed, it's all damaged, or none of it is. You can't have it numerous ways. Reapers and their tech is gone, but non-Reaper tech appears to function just fine.

[silverexile17s]

Indy_S wrote...

I really thought that was what made this cycle special, though. Something slipped through and we were able to act upon it. But apparently not. So the only difference I can see is that the current cycle has enough 'can-do' spirit to pull off a victory. We have enough pluck when everybody else had insufficient pluck.

I think the word your looking for is "We have Shepard."

[Indy_S]

Shepard's only skill is in shooting dudes. Did no other cycle have that ability?

[DeinonSlayer]

silverexile17s wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I really thought that was what made this cycle special, though. Something slipped through and we were able to act upon it. But apparently not. So the only difference I can see is that the current cycle has enough 'can-do' spirit to pull off a victory. We have enough pluck when everybody else had insufficient pluck.

I think the word your looking for is "We have Shepard."

Javik makes it sound like the Protheans were defeated, not because the relays were shut down, but because they failed to embrace the power of diversity.

[Meltemph]

That would imply he was created/programed after Ilos went dark, and was cut off from the rest of the Prothean Empire. Therefore, since the scientists were isolated themselves, and there was no longer any information network, Vigil knowing nothing about the Collcetors, or the Crucilbe, is more plausible then most realize.

This is you creating a non-provable/irrefutable argument to fit a personal bias.

[KiwiQuiche]

Dunno. But hey, who needs things that make sense of logic when you can get cheap drama and desperation??

[Xamufam]

silverexile17s wrote...

Actually, Vigil says that he was programed to monitor the stasis pods on Ilos. That would imply he was created/programed after Ilos went dark, and was cut off from the rest of the Prothean Empire. Therefore, since the scientists were isolated themselves, and there was no longer any information network, Vigil knowing nothing about  the Collcetors, or the Crucilbe, is more plausible then most realize.

He said also that the prothean was infiltrated by indoctrinated spies (Collectors)
He could detect indoctrination but ilos did never experienced it

Modifié par Troxa, 23 janvier 2013 - 07:04 .

[silverexile17s]

Troxa wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Actually, Vigil says that he was programed to monitor the stasis pods on Ilos. That would imply he was created/programed after Ilos went dark, and was cut off from the rest of the Prothean Empire. Therefore, since the scientists were isolated themselves, and there was no longer any information network, Vigil knowing nothing about  the Collcetors, or the Crucilbe, is more plausible then most realize.

He said also that the prothean was insiltrated bu ondoctrinated spies (Collectors)
He could detect indoctrination but ilos never experienced it

Perhaps it was something he was given information on after the scientists woke back up. They were awake for decades, according to Vigil, so they could have learned something, albiet not much.

[Xamufam]

silverexile17s wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Leem_0001 wrote...

It was a poorly thought out plot device.

How can you add to something in a meaningful way if you don't know what it is or does in the firsrt place? We are told previous cycles added something.

Funny how the cycles didn't know about the Reaper threat until it was too late but still managed to get their hands on this blueprint to develop it and expand upon it.

Utter waffle.

The Protheans knew about the Reapers before they arrived. Why do you assume other cycles didn't?

Suddenly, nonsense.
So, they knew about reapers existence, Citadel being relay into dark space and master control unit of the relay network.
And still lost to a surprise decapitation strike.
Riight.
So, protheans are now morons like reapers and leviathans, suddenly?

If you go to the ME wiki, it says right there, "the protheans learned ahead of time about the Reapers, and began developing several countermesures against them, including the Cruicble."
They found out about the Reapers comming. They DIDN'T find out HOW (Citadel Relay) until too late. They got jumped.
You don't need to be so ignroant about it. Especally since anyone who read the lore, or talked to Javik at ALL for that matter, would know the protheans were aware of the Reapers, and were prepairing for them, but their preperations weren't enough.

And vigil said that the warning about the reapers came to late
Why didn't vigil know about the crucible Ilos was the most advanced reasarch station in the galaxy
Those 2 can't get along

The problem with me 3 is that me 1 says the opposite thing

Modifié par Troxa, 23 janvier 2013 - 07:15 .

[JBPBRC]

Original Crucible was probably something simple, like a giant space hamster ball (the big dome thing on the Crucible).

Next cycle that finds the plans thinks its a weapon of some kind. And so forth...

[CynicalShep]

Nah, they were just building a big microphone for teh lulz. Next thing they know - that microphone can kill Reapers. They must've been as shocked as this cycle was

[JBPBRC]

CynicalShep wrote...

Nah, they were just building a big microphone for teh lulz. Next thing they know - that microphone can kill Reapers. They must've been as shocked as this cycle was

No! I refuse to believe this! It was a giant space hamster running over Reapers in his giant space ball!

Giant Hamster Ball theory! Let's make it happen! Its no less ridiculous than every other theory after all!

[Maxster_]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

XxBrokenBonezxX wrote...

The simple and cruel truth is; the Crucible makes zero ******* sense. It comes out of nowhere, and the backstory is so impossibly dumb, I can't fathom how someone would see it and say "Ya..that could work."

Makes sense to me. It's a battery that releases tremeandous amounts of energy. Liara, and Hackett's team could tell that pretty early on. Hell, even the Catalyst itself confirms that. All the Destruction, Controlling, Synthesizing is done by the Citadel, Reaper tech.

Sure.
Someone designed unknown device with unknown function, which should interface with another unknown device, with unknown function, unknown interface, unknown location, unconfirmed existence or even need of it.
And all functionality of it is made by the reapers.
Makes sense, sure.
No one ever knew about Citadel being a relay into dark space and master control unit of a relay network, before reapers attack. And after reapers attack, no cycle had access to the Citadel, to study how this master control works.

But that doesn't stop them to design the device, which function based on master control unit of the relay network, and they have no idea how it even works.
Sure.

The crucible is the ultimate defiance against the Reapers. They've tried to eliminate it, but each cycle successfully passed on the blueprint to the next. And each improved on it. When Shepard uses it, it's not just him defeating the Reapers, it's every cycle they've ever destroyed saying "**** you."

Pure bull****.
It is impossible.
It means that there was at least 20000 coincideces of Crucible plans being found right after beginning of a reapers invasion.
It would be contived even if there was 2 such coincidences, but 20000 - it is plain nonsense and impossible.
As is improving device you have no idea what it does. That's bull****.

As for why they trust it. Desperation's a b!tch. They have nothing else, so why not take a chance on living if they're gonna die anyway?

*facedesk*

[CynicalShep]

JBPBRC wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Nah, they were just building a big microphone for teh lulz. Next thing they know - that microphone can kill Reapers. They must've been as shocked as this cycle was

No! I refuse to believe this! It was a giant space hamster running over Reapers in his giant space ball!

Giant Hamster Ball theory! Let's make it happen! Its no less ridiculous than every other theory after all!

But think about it. Even if it ends up being just a giant microphone you can always make Mordin sing "Scientist Salarian" in it. Reapers would probably all turn around and drive straight into a star/black hole

[JBPBRC]

CynicalShep wrote...

JBPBRC wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Nah, they were just building a big microphone for teh lulz. Next thing they know - that microphone can kill Reapers. They must've been as shocked as this cycle was

No! I refuse to believe this! It was a giant space hamster running over Reapers in his giant space ball!

Giant Hamster Ball theory! Let's make it happen! Its no less ridiculous than every other theory after all!

But think about it. Even if it ends up being just a giant microphone you can always make Mordin sing "Scientist Salarian" in it. Reapers would probably all turn around and drive straight into a star/black hole

...OR we could have a vorcha sing "Scientist Vorcha" with it. 

[111987]

The races in previous cycles could have found the Crucible plans + learned about the existence of the Reapers before the cycle. They just didn't know the details.

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...

The races in previous cycles could have found the Crucible plans + learned about the existence of the Reapers before the cycle. They just didn't know the details.

Sure.
Those who sent plans, forgot to add that Citadel is a relay to a dark space and master control unit of the relay network. Because those are, of course, only a small irrelevant details about reapers invasion.
Thus everyone still got by surprise by reapers.

[Indy_S]

The original creators designed a rather sleek tractor. They even had a few working models but only the blueprints survived. The next cycle thought 'Why can't it fly?' and so they adapted it to fly. The next cycle misunderstood the scale and made it a few hundred times larger. The next cycle looked at something this large and asked 'Why isn't it in space?' and so it was changed. The next race believed that the now-massive spaceship would be a great place to keep a rather large battery. The next race thought that it would be incredibly useful if this ship was attached to the Citadel to provide additional power in case the Citadel's misunderstood power supply failed. And so on until the Protheans decided that putting a bubble on the front 'only makes sense'.

And then it reaches us as the ultimate doomsday weapon we were hoping for.

[111987]

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

The races in previous cycles could have found the Crucible plans + learned about the existence of the Reapers before the cycle. They just didn't know the details.

Sure.
Those who sent plans, forgot to add that Citadel is a relay to a dark space and master control unit of the relay network. Because those are, of course, only a small irrelevant details about reapers invasion.
Thus everyone still got by surprise by reapers.

Obviously it wouldn't be data caches. It could just be the plans for the Crucible that survived (perhaps thanks to the Leviathans?), and they pieced the rest together from the old ruins. Hell, the Reapers were a myth even before they were proven to be real in ME1. Perhaps prior cycles took the myth more seriously.

[The Eruptionist]

Maxster_ wrote...

Pure bull****.
It is impossible.
It means that there was at least 20000 coincideces of Crucible plans being found right after beginning of a reapers invasion.
It would be contived even if there was 2 such coincidences, but 20000 - it is plain nonsense and impossible.
As is improving device you have no idea what it does. That's bull****.

One of the cycles may simply have stored information on the crucible somewhere (as the Protheans did on Mars). The next cycle who found it doesn't necessarily have to have been the one that directly followed them. The information could potentially pass through several cycles entirely undetected. We also have no idea at what point the Crucible was actually designed. It may have been 10 cycles ago or 500. speculating doesn't really help. I also doubt that the discovery of the blue prints all occured right after the Reaper invasion. Some could have found it earlier and failed to act on it for various reasons.

Not every cycle would have improved or even done anything with the Crucible designs. It makes sense that only those who were advanced enough to understand the technology could influence the technical aspects of its construction. They would have known enough about its operation to improve the design. This high level of understanding would have been limited to a select few cycles. Ours obviously hadn't reached this point but we could still affect some of the more simpler aspects of its design.

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

The races in previous cycles could have found the Crucible plans + learned about the existence of the Reapers before the cycle. They just didn't know the details.

Sure.
Those who sent plans, forgot to add that Citadel is a relay to a dark space and master control unit of the relay network. Because those are, of course, only a small irrelevant details about reapers invasion.
Thus everyone still got by surprise by reapers.

Obviously it wouldn't be data caches. It could just be the plans for the Crucible that survived (perhaps thanks to the Leviathans?), and they pieced the rest together from the old ruins. Hell, the Reapers were a myth even before they were proven to be real in ME1. Perhaps prior cycles took the myth more seriously.

You do not design weapons on a base of myths.
You do not design a device that uses something you have no idea it even exists.
No one ever knew that the Citadel is the master control unit of the relay network.
And throughout research of the Citadel is the only way to know that Citadel is master control unit of the relay network, before reapers invasion. And after reapers invasion, you have no access to the Citadel and can not study its functions.
And of course, throughout research of the Citadel would reveal that Citadel is the relay into dark space, and that there is Catalyst, and AI.
Do you think that reducing such coincidences to a 1000 occurences instead of 20000 make this possible? It does not. It is still pure nonsense.

[Maxster_]

The Eruptionist wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

Pure bull****.
It is impossible.
It means that there was at least 20000 coincideces of Crucible plans being found right after beginning of a reapers invasion.
It would be contived even if there was 2 such coincidences, but 20000 - it is plain nonsense and impossible.
As is improving device you have no idea what it does. That's bull****.

One of the cycles may simply have stored information on the crucible somewhere (as the Protheans did on Mars). The next cycle who found it doesn't necessarily have to have been the one that directly followed them. The information could potentially pass through several cycles entirely undetected. We also have no idea at what point the Crucible was actually designed. It may have been 10 cycles ago or 500. speculating doesn't really help.

Doesn't matter. It could matter if it was created through 2-3 cycles. It will be contrived but somewhat plausible.
And hundreds of such contrived occurences is impossible.

I also doubt that the discovery of the blue prints all occured right after the Reaper invasion. Some could have found it earlier and failed to act on it for various reasons.

Of course. Because they were retarded, or those who sent them those plans were.

Not every cycle would have improved or even done anything with the Crucible designs. It makes sense that only those who were advanced enough to understand the technology could influence the technical aspects of its construction. They would have known enough about its operation to improve the design. This high level of understanding would have been limited to a select few cycles. Ours obviously hadn't reached this point but we could still affect some of the more simpler aspects of its design.

To design Crucible, you need detailed knowledge of relays technology. Even protheans didn't had that.
If some race knew about reapers in advance, able to do throughout research of the Citadel, had full knowledge and understanding of the relay technology - they'd knew about relay in dark space, and master control unit, and of course about Catalyst.
They would never got caught by decapitation strike, unless they were utter morons. I fail to see how that is possible, giving that they are far more advanced than the protheans.

Crucible makes absolutely no sense.

[111987]

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

The races in previous cycles could have found the Crucible plans + learned about the existence of the Reapers before the cycle. They just didn't know the details.

Sure.
Those who sent plans, forgot to add that Citadel is a relay to a dark space and master control unit of the relay network. Because those are, of course, only a small irrelevant details about reapers invasion.
Thus everyone still got by surprise by reapers.

Obviously it wouldn't be data caches. It could just be the plans for the Crucible that survived (perhaps thanks to the Leviathans?), and they pieced the rest together from the old ruins. Hell, the Reapers were a myth even before they were proven to be real in ME1. Perhaps prior cycles took the myth more seriously.

You do not design weapons on a base of myths.
You do not design a device that uses something you have no idea it even exists.
No one ever knew that the Citadel is the master control unit of the relay network.
And throughout research of the Citadel is the only way to know that Citadel is master control unit of the relay network, before reapers invasion. And after reapers invasion, you have no access to the Citadel and can not study its functions.
And of course, throughout research of the Citadel would reveal that Citadel is the relay into dark space, and that there is Catalyst, and AI.
Do you think that reducing such coincidences to a 1000 occurences instead of 20000 make this possible? It does not. It is still pure nonsense.

Perhaps one of the other species discovered say, one of the Reaper corpses floating around the galaxy (Leviathan of Dis, Derelict Reaper) and pieced it together. It's possible.

The Citadel was added to the Crucible plans later. presumably by a species that realized the truth of the Citadel after the Reapers blitzkrieged them and started shutting off their Relays one by one. That cycle then could have incorporated the Citadel into the Crucible designs, and it went on from there.

Also, all of your problems are wiped away in the Leviathan theory, the idea that the Leviathans designed the Crucible and are the ones making sure it keeps making it to the next cycle.

[Maxster_]

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

111987 wrote...

The races in previous cycles could have found the Crucible plans + learned about the existence of the Reapers before the cycle. They just didn't know the details.

Sure.
Those who sent plans, forgot to add that Citadel is a relay to a dark space and master control unit of the relay network. Because those are, of course, only a small irrelevant details about reapers invasion.
Thus everyone still got by surprise by reapers.

Obviously it wouldn't be data caches. It could just be the plans for the Crucible that survived (perhaps thanks to the Leviathans?), and they pieced the rest together from the old ruins. Hell, the Reapers were a myth even before they were proven to be real in ME1. Perhaps prior cycles took the myth more seriously.

You do not design weapons on a base of myths.
You do not design a device that uses something you have no idea it even exists.
No one ever knew that the Citadel is the master control unit of the relay network.
And throughout research of the Citadel is the only way to know that Citadel is master control unit of the relay network, before reapers invasion. And after reapers invasion, you have no access to the Citadel and can not study its functions.
And of course, throughout research of the Citadel would reveal that Citadel is the relay into dark space, and that there is Catalyst, and AI.
Do you think that reducing such coincidences to a 1000 occurences instead of 20000 make this possible? It does not. It is still pure nonsense.

Perhaps one of the other species discovered say, one of the Reaper corpses floating around the galaxy (Leviathan of Dis, Derelict Reaper) and pieced it together. It's possible.

Sure.
But then they still lost to a decapitating strike of the reapers. They are morons. How a civilization who reached state of stellar could even achive this being a morons - remains a mystery.

The Citadel was added to the Crucible plans later. presumably by a species that realized the truth of the Citadel after the Reapers blitzkrieged them and started shutting off their Relays one by one. That cycle then could have incorporated the Citadel into the Crucible designs, and it went on from there.

Repeating a nonsense numerous times does not make not a nonsense.
So, you just said that the next cycle consisted of morons, having knowledge of the reapers threat, about Citadel being relay into dark space, having time to troughoutly study the Citadel, discovered detailed knowledge of how to operate relays(master control unit) which requires a lot of time btw, had detailed knowledge of mass relay technology, discovered existence of the Catalyst.
And this race of morons still lost to a surprise decapitation.

Also, all of your problems are wiped away in the Leviathan theory, the idea that the Leviathans designed the Crucible and are the ones making sure it keeps making it to the next cycle.

Except this is a "retroactive foreshadowing" through paid DLC, and this "theory" of yours requires complete retcon of Crucible's "explanation"(as it is in ME3), and will still make absolutely no sense.
Like why did Leviathans hadn't even warned anyone about reapers threat, about Citadel being master control unit, about Citadel being relay into dark space, and of Catalyst's existence.
Because with this knowledge, no one would ever got caught by surprise decapitation. Ever.

[JBPBRC]

Maxster_ wrote...

Repeating a nonsense numerous times does not make not a nonsense.
So, you just said that the next cycle consisted of morons, having knowledge of the reapers threat, about Citadel being relay into dark space, having time to troughoutly study the Citadel, discovered detailed knowledge of how to operate relays(master control unit) which requires a lot of time btw, had detailed knowledge of mass relay technology, discovered existence of the Catalyst.
And this race of morons still lost to a surprise decapitation.

This gave me a good lulz.

That being said, it wouldn't be the silliest nor dumbest thing to happen in ME. And that's saying something.

Modifié par JBPBRC, 23 janvier 2013 - 11:24 .