352 réponses à ce sujet

[Col.Aurion]

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

It... it is not a thing you can comprehend.

it's simple,over time things get lost, so what ever blueprints ideas they may of had could of gotten missplaced damaged so forth over the  X amount of years.

Not really, Face it, BW did not know what they were doing here.

[silverexile17s]

Col.Aurion wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

It... it is not a thing you can comprehend.

it's simple,over time things get lost, so what ever blueprints ideas they may of had could of gotten missplaced damaged so forth over the  X amount of years.

Not really, Face it, BW did not know what they were doing here.

And what MAKES it so implausible?
Look at the protheans. Even though their entire culture was that of a militant Empire, there was NO EVIDENCE of that in Shepard's Cycle.
The nature of prothean culture, which was so hardwired and widespread for them, was unknown in Shepard's Cycle. Think about that.
Face it, information gets lost over 50,000+ years. Even more so if longer.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 janvier 2013 - 12:17 .

[Reorte]

silverexile17s wrote...

Col.Aurion wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

It... it is not a thing you can comprehend.

it's simple,over time things get lost, so what ever blueprints ideas they may of had could of gotten missplaced damaged so forth over the  X amount of years.

Not really, Face it, BW did not know what they were doing here.

And what MAKES it so implausible?
Look at the protheans. Even though their entire culture was that of a militant Empire, there was NO EVIDENCE of that in Shepard's Cycle.
The nature of prothean culture, which was so hardwired and widespread for them, was unknown in Shepard's Cycle. Think about that.
Face it, information gets lost over 50,000+ years. Even more so if longer.

It gets lost but enough survives to build the damn thing - multiple times? I could accept that happening once. Twice and you're really pushing your luck. The Crucible plans surviving multiple cycles and the Reapers still thinking they were destroyed? Come on. Well, I suppose ME3 does rather paint them as idiots.

[silverexile17s]

Reorte wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Col.Aurion wrote...

Tali-vas-normandy wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

It... it is not a thing you can comprehend.

it's simple,over time things get lost, so what ever blueprints ideas they may of had could of gotten missplaced damaged so forth over the  X amount of years.

Not really, Face it, BW did not know what they were doing here.

And what MAKES it so implausible?
Look at the protheans. Even though their entire culture was that of a militant Empire, there was NO EVIDENCE of that in Shepard's Cycle.
The nature of prothean culture, which was so hardwired and widespread for them, was unknown in Shepard's Cycle. Think about that.
Face it, information gets lost over 50,000+ years. Even more so if longer.

It gets lost but enough survives to build the damn thing - multiple times? I could accept that happening once. Twice and you're really pushing your luck. The Crucible plans surviving multiple cycles and the Reapers still thinking they were destroyed? Come on. Well, I suppose ME3 does rather paint them as idiots.

I think the correct term is arrogant and overconfident. After all, Kai Leng, the supposed greatest assassin of Cerberus, was too arrogant to realize Miranda bugged him on Horizon, and that he led Shepard right to Chronos Station.
And besides, I doubt the Reapers ever considered that the Citadel would ever be within ten light-years of the Crucible, since, up until this cycle, taking the Citadel was always the first thing they did.

[Indy_S]

Silver, I feel like you're fighting a losing battle with theories and assumptions. The Crucible's existence is quite a contrivance, one that stretches the suspension of disbelief, far more than most of the things you mentioned earlier. Maybe on par with Lazarus and the Terminator.

[KingZayd]

The closest explanation to making sense is that the Leviathans designed the Crucible, and maybe ensured the plans were passed on from cycle to cycle, under the expectation that if they wait long enough, one cycle would be able to sneak it onto the Citadel. As they don't care about the cycles themselves, it doesn't matter how many get wiped out before success.

As for the nature of the design (little more than a power source), I honestly don't know.

[silverexile17s]

Indy_S wrote...

Silver, I feel like you're fighting a losing battle with theories and assumptions. The Crucible's existence is quite a contrivance, one that stretches the suspension of disbelief, far more than most of the things you mentioned earlier. Maybe on par with Lazarus and the Terminator.

And yet I don't hear those getting this much flack.

Just like the protheans and us, a race could have learned about the Reapers early, and, unlike the Council, did something constructive with that time.
The Crucible wasn't made to use the Citadel from the get-go. That feature was added later, after some other Cycle found out the Citadel coordinates Dark Energy on a massive scale, and thought to use that in conjunction with the Crucible.
This was Drew Karpyshyn's original concept and idea, stemming with the Dark Energy theroy. The Crucible was a plot element that existed since the main plotline was finalized back with ME1s development. They had the main plot points layed out, Crucible included, but nothing was finalized until after ME2 was finished and ready for release.
Is it executed well, paced well, and used to it's fullest potental? HELL NO.
Does it void the lore? Truthfully, not at all.

There were thouands of cycles. Is the possibilaty of one out of thousands finding out about the invasion early that far-featched?
Also, we know that, according to the Leviathans, not every race that found the plans used them.
And again, look at Liara's Time Capsule. Just one of those surviving would give a cycle everything they needed to build the Crucible, since, to qoute Hackett, " the instructions are both easy to translate and comprehend."
Vigil not knowing about it was because he was programed after Ilos went dark, and he only ever monitored the stasis pods. Almost everything he knew about was extrapolation, or information that the equally isolated head scientists had, which was little.
Also, Javik said the Empire was "smashed into pieces," and none knew what the others were doing, so that seems to be why it wasn't mentioned  or stored in other prothean information sorces, like the Eden Prime and Virmire beacons.

The Crucible skits close to the edge, but when looked over with a fine-tooth comb, it actually doesn't contridict anything.
Unlike the Lazarus Project.

[Cobretti ftw]

Belisarius25 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...How can you 'add' to something when you have no idea what it is?

You can do this to some extent - better armor/different weapons, adding new technology, etc. While everything might not be clear, there's certain stuff that would probably be pretty obvious. While it's true that, for example, Hackett doesn't know exactly what the Crucible will do, I don't think it's all that unreasonable for someone to assume it's an anti-Reaper weapon of some sort (now, whether it's good for the narrative...)

As to why it wasn't designed to just target the Reapers...the earlier cycles may not have imagined friendly synthetic life (i.e. didn't anticipate the likes of EDI and the Geth helping out), maybe it was impossible, maybe it just targets Reaper tech (which EDI and the Geth both have), maybe it should have but the writers wanted some negative effect to a high-EMS destroy ending.

OMG this people are WRECKING the good storys.. WTF dude. ook at what ur saying. thats.. thats just... wth does that REALLY made sense to you? U can mix weapon arts so building a machie to stop an unkow threat with a device that u DONT KNOW what will do and functions with something that u DONT KNOW  what it is?


aww cmon.. this is so ridiculous. Game industry is now just making games for that kind of person?

[KingZayd]

Cobretti ftw wrote...

Belisarius25 wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...How can you 'add' to something when you have no idea what it is?

You can do this to some extent - better armor/different weapons, adding new technology, etc. While everything might not be clear, there's certain stuff that would probably be pretty obvious. While it's true that, for example, Hackett doesn't know exactly what the Crucible will do, I don't think it's all that unreasonable for someone to assume it's an anti-Reaper weapon of some sort (now, whether it's good for the narrative...)

As to why it wasn't designed to just target the Reapers...the earlier cycles may not have imagined friendly synthetic life (i.e. didn't anticipate the likes of EDI and the Geth helping out), maybe it was impossible, maybe it just targets Reaper tech (which EDI and the Geth both have), maybe it should have but the writers wanted some negative effect to a high-EMS destroy ending.

OMG this people are WRECKING the good storys.. WTF dude. ook at what ur saying. thats.. thats just... wth does that REALLY made sense to you? U can mix weapon arts so building a machie to stop an unkow threat with a device that u DONT KNOW what will do and functions with something that u DONT KNOW  what it is?


aww cmon.. this is so ridiculous. Game industry is now just making games for that kind of person?

You're not asking the right questions.

Why would anyone decide that what the anti-Reaper weapon really needed was a synthesis function?

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

The closest explanation to making sense is that the Leviathans designed the Crucible, and maybe ensured the plans were passed on from cycle to cycle, under the expectation that if they wait long enough, one cycle would be able to sneak it onto the Citadel. As they don't care about the cycles themselves, it doesn't matter how many get wiped out before success.

As for the nature of the design (little more than a power source), I honestly don't know.

I have a theroy.

There is a possibilaty that the race that adapted it to link with the Citadel planed to use it as the power unit to transmit massive amounts of Dark Energy through the Cidatel - the largest Mass Relay in existance, and therefore, capable of minipulating more Dark Energy then any other structure, including the standard Relays.

Therefore, it's possible that the Crucible was ment to be the power source to waponize the Citadel itself, using it's dark energy emmisons as a weapon against the Reapers. After all, Dark Energy (same power as in botic fields) is something I doubt they would be able to defend against, and finding a way to use pure dark energy as a weapon against the Reapers is ingenious. If only that kind of thing was expanded on to use as a possibilaty in the endings.

To explain how this would work in the endings:
supposedly, this would mean that a massive wave of Dark Energy would be send out on a wavelength that would  devastate advanced A.I. lifeforms, but pass over organic ones, as long as the power of it is finely tuned, lest it just incenerate everything. Then, it sends a burst of this Dark Energy to the Relays, which replicate the new energy, and then disperse all the Dark Energy they contain, in order to blanket the entire galaxy. This would be the Destroy Ending.

Also, this Dark Energy could be used as a signal blanket, that could send a signal across the entire galaxy that the Reapers respond to. The signal, sent out by the new Shepard A.I.-Catalyst, which has not become the new governing intelligence of the Reapers, would effectively rewrite every Reaper quickly and effectively, transmitting new directives through the pulse, like a burst signal. This would be the Control Ending.

Okay, Synthesis is something I do not understand at all how it is possible. So my theroy on this may not be accurate.
To sum up, this would be almost exactally like the "JC Denton" Ending of Deus Ex: Invisible War, in which every human is nano-augmented.
This would be the same. The Pulse is a blanket of nano-machines (I know it's an asspull. Just go with it like Project Lazarus) is created from the half-synthetic DNA of Shepard, mass-synthesised within the Citadel. These are transmitted by the wave or Dark Energy, which affects every being at the cellular level, with the molecules containing the Nano-Machines implanted directly as they envelop Organic and Synthetic tissue. Then, a beam of Dark Energy shoots this Nano-Machine bearing Dark Energy (God, that sounded stupid) into the Relays, which copy and replicate the Dark Energy, and the Nano-Machines within, before despersing them throughout the galaxy.

...Okay, so I have no real idea on Synthesis being dispersed across the galaxy like it is. But the other two are possible.

.....Although, this is admittedly speculation on my part. Just my personal theroy to throw out there. Weather or not you believe it, or even consider it a possibilaty, is yoru choice.

[Mouton_Alpha]

Did the original creators knew what they were building?

Yes.

First came the theory stage, when some early race wholly or partially discovered the nature of the Reapers. Then came the design and research stage when they were coming up with what to do. Both stages were probably staggered over many cycles, each working on leftover data and/or suffering setbacks. Then came the final stage of focused development. It also lasted along time and after many cycles of singular purpose the only real info except the design specs that was needed was "FOR THE LOVE OF GROK BUILD THIS IT KILLS REAPERS".

The Eruptionist wrote...

One of the cycles may simply have stored information on the crucible somewhere (as the Protheans did on Mars). The next cycle who found it doesn't necessarily have to have been the one that directly followed them. The information could potentially pass through several cycles entirely undetected. We also have no idea at what point the Crucible was actually designed. It may have been 10 cycles ago or 500. speculating doesn't really help. I also doubt that the discovery of the blue prints all occured right after the Reaper invasion. Some could have found it earlier and failed to act on it for various reasons.

Exactly. Crucible was obviously a gargantuan project and the Reaper thread hard to believe. I wouldn't be surprised if in most cases real research only started when the genocide started. Some might have found the data earlier but unable to overcome some technical obstacles. Others might have found the data early and progressed nicely, but the galactic activity alerted the Reaper vanguard/thralls and triggered the invasion.

The Eruptionist wrote...

Not every cycle would have improved or even done anything with the Crucible designs.

Additionally, some may have improved the Crucible, but failed to preserve the data, thus forcing some next race to start from an earlier step.

[silverexile17s]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Did the original creators knew what they were building?

Yes.

First came the theory stage, when some early race wholly or partially discovered the nature of the Reapers. Then came the design and research stage when they were coming up with what to do. Both stages were probably staggered over many cycles, each working on leftover data and/or suffering setbacks. Then came the final stage of focused development. It also lasted along time and after many cycles of singular purpose the only real info except the design specs that was needed was "FOR THE LOVE OF GROK BUILD THIS IT KILLS REAPERS".

The Eruptionist wrote...

One of the cycles may simply have stored information on the crucible somewhere (as the Protheans did on Mars). The next cycle who found it doesn't necessarily have to have been the one that directly followed them. The information could potentially pass through several cycles entirely undetected. We also have no idea at what point the Crucible was actually designed. It may have been 10 cycles ago or 500. speculating doesn't really help. I also doubt that the discovery of the blue prints all occured right after the Reaper invasion. Some could have found it earlier and failed to act on it for various reasons.

Exactly. Crucible was obviously a gargantuan project and the Reaper thread hard to believe. I wouldn't be surprised if in most cases real research only started when the genocide started. Some might have found the data earlier but unable to overcome some technical obstacles. Others might have found the data early and progressed nicely, but the galactic activity alerted the Reaper vanguard/thralls and triggered the invasion.

The Eruptionist wrote...

Not every cycle would have improved or even done anything with the Crucible designs.

Additionally, some may have improved the Crucible, but failed to preserve the data, thus forcing some next race to start from an earlier step.

This. Thank you for clarifing on this.

[Meltemph]

I think people creating all these plausible scenario's are missing the point... The construction of the crucible plot should have been explained in enough detail you could call it, in the words of Asimov "plausible gobbledygook".

They didn't do this, and essentially told us to just accept it and come up with your own explanation. The lack of details in ME3 is infuriating(and the crucible is just the most obvious) ME2 had its issues with this as well, just not as bad. The reaper plot to ME3 just comes across as ham-fisted, to be frank.

[Mouton_Alpha]

Meltemph wrote...

I think people creating all these plausible scenario's are missing the point... The construction of the crucible plot should have been explained in enough detail you could call it, in the words of Asimov "plausible gobbledygook".

I agree. I believe Crucible is plausible, but for such a key element they should have put much more effort into persuading us this is the correct way. Eveyone in the game swallowed it too easily.

Modifié par Mouton_Alpha, 24 janvier 2013 - 04:57 .

[silverexile17s]

Meltemph wrote...

I think people creating all these plausible scenario's are missing the point... The construction of the crucible plot should have been explained in enough detail you could call it, in the words of Asimov "plausible gobbledygook".

They didn't do this, and essentially told us to just accept it and come up with your own explanation. The lack of details in ME3 is infuriating(and the crucible is just the most obvious) ME2 had its issues with this as well, just not as bad. The reaper plot to ME3 just comes across as ham-fisted, to be frank.

Regardless, the Crucible IS INDEED plausable.

[CynicalShep]

I still think they initially wanted to make a big microphone

Modifié par CynicalShep, 24 janvier 2013 - 05:15 .

[silverexile17s]

CynicalShep wrote...

I still think they initially wanted to make a big microphone

Actually, that sorta was the original idea Drew Karpyshyn had for it:P: A giant amplifier for Dark Energy emmitions channeled by the Citadel, and spread through the Mass Relay Network.
Crucible + Citadel = giant mic + amp.
Mass Relay Ntework = set of broadcasting sterios.
Dark Energy = soundwave projected by the above.
End result: Fried Reapers. Extra crispy.

This was the original concept Drew had. Simple, sound, and practical.
Then, Walters and Hudson decided that it was to simplistic, and was the  "Reaper off-switch" that fans distinctly said they didn't want, and changed it to have "more variation to it." The end result was the current set of endings.
So the mic anaology isn't that far off from how Drew originally wanted it to be:lol:

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 janvier 2013 - 05:42 .

[CynicalShep]

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I still think they initially wanted to make a big microphone

Actually, that sorta was the original idea Drew Karpyshyn had for it:P: A giant amplifier for Dark Energy emmitions channeled by the Citadel, and spread through the Mass Relay Network.
Crucible + Citadel = giant mic + amp.
Mass Relay Ntework = set of broadcasting sterios.
Dark Energy = soundwave projected by the above.
End result: Fried Reapers. Extra crispy.

This was the original concept Drew had. Simple, sound, and practical.
Then, Walters and Hudson decided that it was to simplistic, and was the  "Reaper off-switch" that fans distinctly said they didn't want, and changed it to have "more variation to it." The end result was the current set of endings.
So the mic anaology isn't that far off from how Drew originally wanted it to be:lol:

They could still go back to this idea when they release something like "Rock Band. Shepard vs Reapers". If ME4 is going to be at least mildly successful it may come to that. Look at what happened to SW

[silverexile17s]

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I still think they initially wanted to make a big microphone

Actually, that sorta was the original idea Drew Karpyshyn had for it:P: A giant amplifier for Dark Energy emmitions channeled by the Citadel, and spread through the Mass Relay Network.
Crucible + Citadel = giant mic + amp.
Mass Relay Ntework = set of broadcasting sterios.
Dark Energy = soundwave projected by the above.
End result: Fried Reapers. Extra crispy.

This was the original concept Drew had. Simple, sound, and practical.
Then, Walters and Hudson decided that it was to simplistic, and was the  "Reaper off-switch" that fans distinctly said they didn't want, and changed it to have "more variation to it." The end result was the current set of endings.
So the mic anaology isn't that far off from how Drew originally wanted it to be:lol:

They could still go back to this idea when they release something like "Rock Band. Shepard vs Reapers". If ME4 is going to be at least mildly successful it may come to that. Look at what happened to SW

I assume your referring to how many believe the game will bottom up soon. Or that it already has. Content production is slow enough.

[CynicalShep]

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I still think they initially wanted to make a big microphone

Actually, that sorta was the original idea Drew Karpyshyn had for it:P: A giant amplifier for Dark Energy emmitions channeled by the Citadel, and spread through the Mass Relay Network.
Crucible + Citadel = giant mic + amp.
Mass Relay Ntework = set of broadcasting sterios.
Dark Energy = soundwave projected by the above.
End result: Fried Reapers. Extra crispy.

This was the original concept Drew had. Simple, sound, and practical.
Then, Walters and Hudson decided that it was to simplistic, and was the  "Reaper off-switch" that fans distinctly said they didn't want, and changed it to have "more variation to it." The end result was the current set of endings.
So the mic anaology isn't that far off from how Drew originally wanted it to be:lol:

They could still go back to this idea when they release something like "Rock Band. Shepard vs Reapers". If ME4 is going to be at least mildly successful it may come to that. Look at what happened to SW

I assume your referring to how many believe the game will bottom up soon. Or that it already has. Content production is slow enough.

Your assumption is correct

[Jadebaby]

No, but the Reapers controlling them did.

[Fixers0]

Do you mean the writers?

Modifié par Fixers0, 24 janvier 2013 - 06:44 .

[silverexile17s]

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I still think they initially wanted to make a big microphone

Actually, that sorta was the original idea Drew Karpyshyn had for it:P: A giant amplifier for Dark Energy emmitions channeled by the Citadel, and spread through the Mass Relay Network.
Crucible + Citadel = giant mic + amp.
Mass Relay Ntework = set of broadcasting sterios.
Dark Energy = soundwave projected by the above.
End result: Fried Reapers. Extra crispy.

This was the original concept Drew had. Simple, sound, and practical.
Then, Walters and Hudson decided that it was to simplistic, and was the  "Reaper off-switch" that fans distinctly said they didn't want, and changed it to have "more variation to it." The end result was the current set of endings.
So the mic anaology isn't that far off from how Drew originally wanted it to be:lol:

They could still go back to this idea when they release something like "Rock Band. Shepard vs Reapers". If ME4 is going to be at least mildly successful it may come to that. Look at what happened to SW

I assume your referring to how many believe the game will bottom up soon. Or that it already has. Content production is slow enough.

Your assumption is correct

Still, if you had been in charge, what would you have done about the Crucible plot?
I think a key problem was that it felt rushed. It's existance doesn't void the lore, but the way it's introduced - finding it on Mars, whcih we happen to be right by, just as the Reaper invasion starts - is a suspension of belief sutuation that I've not encountered since ME2, where I was forced to believe Shepard was ressurected from clinical death, like it was nothing more then being knocked out.
I think that if the Crucible was introduced in mid to late ME2, that the Crucible wouldn't have felt like such an akward plot dump. If we found it in ME2, it would have paced the story.
Say we find it's BLUEPRINTS, or part of them, but don't know for sure what it is, until the end of ME2 ( say, finding a data cashe on the Collector Base that details the protheans building it, which list it as a weapon). And the Alliance has been working on it's designs, and gathering capitol for it, and beginning construction on it in prep for when the Reapers come. That way, the Alliance could have been cast as actually doing something in-between the six month gap seperating ME2 & ME3.
Then, after the Earth evac, they find the decryption key, or some other valuble component to the designs, on Mars. Example: They discover the Crucible designs are missing something, but don't know what, and they don't find any trace to it in what they have. Going to Mars is where they find data on the missing piece, which is the "Catalyst."

I know the above fan-plot isn't perfect, but I think that had the Crucible been paced better, and introduced earlier, insetad of litteraly waiting till the last moment to reveal it, it would have been better receved. Waiting till the last moment to show critical plot details like that, when executed poorly, makes it feel like an asspull.
Introducing the Crucible in ME2, in my opinion, would have fixed that.

[CynicalShep]

silverexile17s wrote...

Still, if you had been in charge, what would you have done about the Crucible plot?
I think a key problem was that it felt rushed. It's existance doesn't void the lore, but the way it's introduced - finding it on Mars, whcih we happen to be right by, just as the Reaper invasion starts - is a suspension of belief sutuation that I've not encountered since ME2, where I was forced to believe Shepard was ressurected from clinical death, like it was nothing more then being knocked out.
I think that if the Crucible was introduced in mid to late ME2, that the Crucible wouldn't have felt like such an akward plot dump. If we found it in ME2, it would have paced the story.
Say we find it's BLUEPRINTS, or part of them, but don't know for sure what it is, until the end of ME2 ( say, finding a data cashe on the Collector Base that details the protheans building it, which list it as a weapon). And the Alliance has been working on it's designs, and gathering capitol for it, and beginning construction on it in prep for when the Reapers come. That way, the Alliance could have been cast as actually doing something in-between the six month gap seperating ME2 & ME3.
Then, after the Earth evac, they find the decryption key, or some other valuble component to the designs, on Mars. Example: They discover the Crucible designs are missing something, but don't know what, and they don't find any trace to it in what they have. Going to Mars is where they find data on the missing piece, which is the "Catalyst."

I know the above fan-plot isn't perfect, but I think that had the Crucible been paced better, and introduced earlier, insetad of litteraly waiting till the last moment to reveal it, it would have been better receved. Waiting till the last moment to show critical plot details like that, when executed poorly, makes it feel like an asspull.
Introducing the Crucible in ME2, in my opinion, would have fixed that.

It could have worked but it needed a complete overhaul. In ME1 Anderson says it's "just a data cache". We go there finally in ME3 and it ends up being a pretty damn huge one, way bigger than that small beacon on Eden Prime. Somehow it helped jump technology and then what? It was forgotten? If that place was so important I would have had hundreds of scientists, at least a platoon of soldiers and a fleet guarding it until the last bit of data is extracted and decyphered.
Besides, introducing the game-beating element in the first mission is just not right. If it ended up being a lose end and we had to find another solution somewhere mid-game it would have been much better. Otherwise - at least introduce it in ME2, just like the Arrival mission. 
As about the other cycles working on it - make a place that Reapers didn't find. Put it on Ilos, maybe? Make it more believable by saying the ones that were before Protheans started it and then Protheans finished the design but ran out of time. Otherwise, the whole "many cycles worked on it" doesn't sound all that realistic. So they are attacked and in their desperation most of them find these blueprints and continue working on them and not one single time do Reapers find out about them (through indoctrinated agents). And when they finally do (with Protheans) they just leave it there.
And last but not least - how did it all start? What cycle started it? What where they hoping to accomplish? I just can't wrap my head around that

Modifié par CynicalShep, 24 janvier 2013 - 08:44 .

[silverexile17s]

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Still, if you had been in charge, what would you have done about the Crucible plot?
I think a key problem was that it felt rushed. It's existance doesn't void the lore, but the way it's introduced - finding it on Mars, whcih we happen to be right by, just as the Reaper invasion starts - is a suspension of belief sutuation that I've not encountered since ME2, where I was forced to believe Shepard was ressurected from clinical death, like it was nothing more then being knocked out.
I think that if the Crucible was introduced in mid to late ME2, that the Crucible wouldn't have felt like such an akward plot dump. If we found it in ME2, it would have paced the story.
Say we find it's BLUEPRINTS, or part of them, but don't know for sure what it is, until the end of ME2 ( say, finding a data cashe on the Collector Base that details the protheans building it, which list it as a weapon). And the Alliance has been working on it's designs, and gathering capitol for it, and beginning construction on it in prep for when the Reapers come. That way, the Alliance could have been cast as actually doing something in-between the six month gap seperating ME2 & ME3.
Then, after the Earth evac, they find the decryption key, or some other valuble component to the designs, on Mars. Example: They discover the Crucible designs are missing something, but don't know what, and they don't find any trace to it in what they have. Going to Mars is where they find data on the missing piece, which is the "Catalyst."

I know the above fan-plot isn't perfect, but I think that had the Crucible been paced better, and introduced earlier, insetad of litteraly waiting till the last moment to reveal it, it would have been better receved. Waiting till the last moment to show critical plot details like that, when executed poorly, makes it feel like an asspull.
Introducing the Crucible in ME2, in my opinion, would have fixed that.

It could have worked but it needed a complete overhaul. In ME1 Anderson says it's "just a data cache". We go there finally in ME3 and it ends up being a pretty damn huge one, way bigger than that small beacon on Eden Prime. Somehow it helped jump technology and then what? It was forgotten? If that place was so important I would have had hundreds of scientists, at least a platoon of soldiers and a fleet guarding it until the last bit of data is extracted and decyphered.
Besides, introducing the game-beating element in the first mission is just not right. If it ended up being a lose end and we had to find another solution somewhere mid-game it would have been much better. Otherwise - at least introduce it in ME2, just like the Arrival mission. 
As about the other cycles working on it - make a place that Reapers didn't find. Put it on Ilos, maybe? Make it more believable by saying the ones that were before Protheans started it and then Protheans finished the design but ran out of time. Otherwise, the whole "many cycles worked on it" doesn't sound all that realistic. So they are attacked and in their desperation most of them find these blueprints and continue working on them and not one single time do Reapers find out about them (through indoctrinated agents). And when they finally do (with Protheans) they just leave it there.
And last but not least - how did it all start? What cycle started it? What where they hoping to accomplish? I just can't wrap my head around that

You know, given the quality of how the writing has been exicuted, I wouldn't be surprised if they bomb-dropped that the bloddy Keepers were the one that invented the thing.

MY theroy is that the Crucible was created because most weapons were inneffective against Reapers. The Crucible is referred to in the War Assets, and more spicifically, in Shepard's conversation with Dr. Conrad Verner in ME3 (STILL can't believe he's an expert physisist/professor in Mass Effect field sciences), as a Dark Energy-based weapon. So, it's likely that the Crucible was originally built to fight the Reapers with the one thing they never were threatened by before: Dark Energy.
You know biotics? Warp, Pull, Throw, Shockwave, Singularaty, ect? Those are all Dark Energy fields produced by the biotic. So a massive Dark Energy burst would be like a giant biotic Warp field going off. Or, more likely, a giant version of the Flare power Aria uses in the Omega DLC.
I think that's what the Crucible was supposed to be: A giant machine was supposed to fry Reapers with giant artifically-created biotic Warp/Flare blasts. (... did that sound stupid to you too, or is that just me?)
Then, supposedly, the following cycle found that the Crucible on it's own could never be powerfull enough to affect enough Reapers on a wide enough scale to win. Then, they also find out that the Citadel is emmiting Dark Energy signitures as well. They discover the Citadel is a massive dormant Realy, though are unable to find out how to activate it. They realize that as the biggest relay in existance, it also is the largest generator of Dark Energy in the galaxy, and the Crucible was adapted to interface with the Citadel, and weponize the station into a doomsday weapon, using the Crucible to filter and amplify the Dark Energy emmisions of the Citadel and focus them into a wavelength that could harm the Reapers.
Then, they may have realized that, using the Mass Relay network, the could focus the energy beam into a pulse, that could be directed to any location in the galaxy via the Realys.
THIS is what I believe the Crucible's story is.

Okay, I admit, it's a LONG SHOT, to say the least. But, it seems to be the only thing I see that fits what we have.

Also, I think finding refrence to it in the Collector Base would have worked the best. We finish the last mission with the beginnings of the main plot-point right in hand. This would have also added an extra layer to the "keep/destroy the Collector Base" choice, as you would be more conflicted about keeping the base, as it could have the resources needed to build the Crucible.
And we would have a perfect set-up for ME3 plot-wise. We'd have an idea of what was going to be the focus, to that it doesn't feel like the sudden akward asspull it does now. I understand an element of surprise is what they were going for, but unless you are making a stand-alone game, you don't cram such a pivitoal story element right into the start of the game. It makes it feel akward and rushed.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 janvier 2013 - 09:18 .