352 réponses à ce sujet

[CynicalShep]

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

*snip

*snip

You know, given the quality of how the writing has been exicuted, I wouldn't be surprised if they bomb-dropped that the bloddy Keepers were the one that invented the thing.

MY theroy is that the Crucible was created because most weapons were inneffective against Reapers. The Crucible is referred to in the War Assets, and more spicifically, in Shepard's conversation with Dr. Conrad Verner in ME3 (STILL can't believe he's an expert physisist/professor in Mass Effect field sciences), as a Dark Energy-based weapon. So, it's likely that the Crucible was originally built to fight the Reapers with the one thing they never were threatened by before: Dark Energy.
You know biotics? Warp, Pull, Throw, Shockwave, Singularaty, ect? Those are all Dark Energy fields produced by the biotic. So a massive Dark Energy burst would be like a giant biotic Warp field going off. Or, more likely, a giant version of the Flare power Aria uses in the Omega DLC.
I think that's what the Crucible was supposed to be: A giant machine was supposed to fry Reapers with giant artifically-created biotic Warp/Flare blasts. (... did that sound stupid to you too, or is that just me?)
Then, supposedly, the following cycle found that the Crucible on it's own could never be powerfull enough to affect enough Reapers on a wide enough scale to win. Then, they also find out that the Citadel is emmiting Dark Energy signitures as well. They discover the Citadel is a massive dormant Realy, though are unable to find out how to activate it. They realize that as the biggest relay in existance, it also is the largest generator of Dark Energy in the galaxy, and the Crucible was adapted to interface with the Citadel, and weponize the station into a doomsday weapon, using the Crucible to filter and amplify the Dark Energy emmisions of the Citadel and focus them into a wavelength that could harm the Reapers.
Then, they may have realized that, using the Mass Relay network, the could focus the energy beam into a pulse, that could be directed to any location in the galaxy via the Realys.
THIS is what I believe the Crucible's story is.

Okay, I admit, it's a LONG SHOT, to say the least. But, it seems to be the only thing I see that fits what we have.

It still makes SOME sense. This is what I don't understand. It's not like one guy wrote the plot for ME3 alone, locked in a room and then refused to have it proof-read. They are a team of professionals who have done it before. How did nobody point out this or any other of the numerous WTF moments in this game? I'm not a professional writer even though I did a fair share of writing myself (articles, not fiction). So why is it that we have to do this?

[TheProtheans]

Don't even think about it.

I just headcanon it was the turtles.

[silverexile17s]

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

*snip

*snip

You know, given the quality of how the writing has been exicuted, I wouldn't be surprised if they bomb-dropped that the bloddy Keepers were the one that invented the thing.

MY theroy is that the Crucible was created because most weapons were inneffective against Reapers. The Crucible is referred to in the War Assets, and more spicifically, in Shepard's conversation with Dr. Conrad Verner in ME3 (STILL can't believe he's an expert physisist/professor in Mass Effect field sciences), as a Dark Energy-based weapon. So, it's likely that the Crucible was originally built to fight the Reapers with the one thing they never were threatened by before: Dark Energy.
You know biotics? Warp, Pull, Throw, Shockwave, Singularaty, ect? Those are all Dark Energy fields produced by the biotic. So a massive Dark Energy burst would be like a giant biotic Warp field going off. Or, more likely, a giant version of the Flare power Aria uses in the Omega DLC.
I think that's what the Crucible was supposed to be: A giant machine was supposed to fry Reapers with giant artifically-created biotic Warp/Flare blasts. (... did that sound stupid to you too, or is that just me?)
Then, supposedly, the following cycle found that the Crucible on it's own could never be powerfull enough to affect enough Reapers on a wide enough scale to win. Then, they also find out that the Citadel is emmiting Dark Energy signitures as well. They discover the Citadel is a massive dormant Realy, though are unable to find out how to activate it. They realize that as the biggest relay in existance, it also is the largest generator of Dark Energy in the galaxy, and the Crucible was adapted to interface with the Citadel, and weponize the station into a doomsday weapon, using the Crucible to filter and amplify the Dark Energy emmisions of the Citadel and focus them into a wavelength that could harm the Reapers.
Then, they may have realized that, using the Mass Relay network, the could focus the energy beam into a pulse, that could be directed to any location in the galaxy via the Realys.
THIS is what I believe the Crucible's story is.

Okay, I admit, it's a LONG SHOT, to say the least. But, it seems to be the only thing I see that fits what we have.

It still makes SOME sense. This is what I don't understand. It's not like one guy wrote the plot for ME3 alone, locked in a room and then refused to have it proof-read. They are a team of professionals who have done it before. How did nobody point out this or any other of the numerous WTF moments in this game? I'm not a professional writer even though I did a fair share of writing myself (articles, not fiction). So why is it that we have to do this?

I know. The worst part is that most of it doesn't void the lore. In fact, it actually seems like the realization that it skits the boundries of lore-breaking, but in truth, doesn't actualy void the lore, just makes it even more infuriating to deal with. To think none of it is actually lore-breaking, but yet is executed so poorly compaired to the previous entries, is maddening to most of the fans, as it beggs the question "if they checked the lore, why is the plot so rushed?" It may not be a horrible game, but it certenly doesn't stand on par with ME1's storytelling.
Yes, alot of equally crazy things happen in the other games, so that's not the problem. The problem is that it seems like ME3 content is more cramed together then ME1 & 2. Compered to them, it seem executed so poorly that it feels like you have to stop and scratch your head - something I rarely did in ME1. Even the 50,000 year old sentiant starship plot was acceptible to me, because it was executed soundly, and there was a good bulid-up to it, with some subtle hints here and there.
I did a bit of head-scratching at the Lazarus Project. And at the fact that Reapers are "grown" from liquid DNA wasn't really that bad, though I paused. It made it seem quite lovecraftian that they were made from liquid "essence."
What REALLY raised my eyebrows was the Human-Reaper boss battle. Don't get me wrong, it was awsome, but I was left wondering as to how the hell I was fighting the thing. I flashed back to Metroid Prime at least once during that fight.
ME3 wasn't horrible. It was actually a great ride. But, it had alot of plot-points that left me head-scratching.  The plot had good, interesting elements, but I felt that they weren't pulled off nearly as well as ME1. The only one that truly felt like it was perfect was Tuchanka. Rannoch was good, but it vilinized the quarians to the max, instead of trying to balance out the differing views. Choices like the Human Council Represenitive and the Rachni Queen felt a bit pointless. ESPECALLY the Human Council Rep choice. And characters like Paul Grayson being mentioned with no prior in-game context feels rushed and sloppy, as you'd need to read the books to get the refrence. And Kai Leng's character wasn't done justice at all. From top-notch ex-N7 assassin, to Adam Jenson-wanabee Cyber-Ninja.
All in all, even though the game is strong, there is ALOT of wasted potental in the content, and it really saddens me that so much of the plot has such a massive level of polt potental that was wasted because of poor execution.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 janvier 2013 - 10:15 .

[silverexile17s]

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

*snip

*snip

You know, given the quality of how the writing has been exicuted, I wouldn't be surprised if they bomb-dropped that the bloddy Keepers were the one that invented the thing.

MY theroy is that the Crucible was created because most weapons were inneffective against Reapers. The Crucible is referred to in the War Assets, and more spicifically, in Shepard's conversation with Dr. Conrad Verner in ME3 (STILL can't believe he's an expert physisist/professor in Mass Effect field sciences), as a Dark Energy-based weapon. So, it's likely that the Crucible was originally built to fight the Reapers with the one thing they never were threatened by before: Dark Energy.
You know biotics? Warp, Pull, Throw, Shockwave, Singularaty, ect? Those are all Dark Energy fields produced by the biotic. So a massive Dark Energy burst would be like a giant biotic Warp field going off. Or, more likely, a giant version of the Flare power Aria uses in the Omega DLC.
I think that's what the Crucible was supposed to be: A giant machine was supposed to fry Reapers with giant artifically-created biotic Warp/Flare blasts. (... did that sound stupid to you too, or is that just me?)
Then, supposedly, the following cycle found that the Crucible on it's own could never be powerfull enough to affect enough Reapers on a wide enough scale to win. Then, they also find out that the Citadel is emmiting Dark Energy signitures as well. They discover the Citadel is a massive dormant Realy, though are unable to find out how to activate it. They realize that as the biggest relay in existance, it also is the largest generator of Dark Energy in the galaxy, and the Crucible was adapted to interface with the Citadel, and weponize the station into a doomsday weapon, using the Crucible to filter and amplify the Dark Energy emmisions of the Citadel and focus them into a wavelength that could harm the Reapers.
Then, they may have realized that, using the Mass Relay network, the could focus the energy beam into a pulse, that could be directed to any location in the galaxy via the Realys.
THIS is what I believe the Crucible's story is.

Okay, I admit, it's a LONG SHOT, to say the least. But, it seems to be the only thing I see that fits what we have.

It still makes SOME sense. This is what I don't understand. It's not like one guy wrote the plot for ME3 alone, locked in a room and then refused to have it proof-read. They are a team of professionals who have done it before. How did nobody point out this or any other of the numerous WTF moments in this game? I'm not a professional writer even though I did a fair share of writing myself (articles, not fiction). So why is it that we have to do this?

I know. The worst part is that most of it doesn't void the lore. In fact, it actually seems like the realization that it skits the boundries of lore-breaking, but in truth, doesn't actualy void the lore, just makes it even more infuriating to deal with. To think none of it is actually lore-breaking, but yet is executed so poorly compaired to the previous entries, is maddening to most of the fans, as it beggs the question "if they checked the lore, why is the plot so rushed?" It may not be a horrible game, but it certenly doesn't stand on par with ME1's storytelling.
Yes, alot of equally crazy things happen in the other games, so that's not the problem. The problem is that it seems like ME3 content is more cramed together then ME1 & 2. Compered to them, it seem executed so poorly that it feels like you have to stop and scratch your head - something I rarely did in ME1. Even the 50,000 year old sentiant starship plot was acceptible to me, because it was executed soundly, and there was a good bulid-up to it, with some subtle hints here and there.
I did a bit of head-scratching at the Lazarus Project. And at the fact that Reapers are "grown" from liquid DNA wasn't really that bad, though I paused. It made it seem quite lovecraftian that they were made from liquid "essence."
What REALLY raised my eyebrows was the Human-Reaper boss battle. Don't get me wrong, it was awsome, but I was left wondering as to how the hell I was fighting the thing. I flashed back to Metroid Prime at least once during that fight.
ME3 wasn't horrible. It was actually a great ride. But, it had alot of plot-points that left me head-scratching.  The plot had good, interesting elements, but I felt that they weren't pulled off nearly as well as ME1. The only one that truly felt like it was perfect was Tuchanka. Rannoch was good, but it vilinized the quarians to the max, instead of trying to balance out the differing views. Choices like the Human Council Represenitive and the Rachni Queen felt a bit pointless. ESPECALLY the Human Council Rep choice. And characters like Paul Grayson being mentioned with no prior in-gqme context feels rushed and sloppy, as you'd need to read the books to get the refrence. And Kai Leng's character wasn't done justice at all. From top-notch ex-N7 assassin, to Adam Jenson-wanabee Cyber-Ninja.
All in all, even though the game is strong, there is ALOT of wasted potental in the content, and it really saddens me that so much of the plot has such a massive level of polt potental that was wasted because of poor execution.

Damn. It posted again. Didn't mean to hit "qoute.":P

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 janvier 2013 - 10:13 .

[CynicalShep]

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

*snip

*snip

*snip

*snip

I know. The worst part is that most of it doesn't void the lore. In fact, it actually seems like the realization that it skits the boundries of lore-breaking, but in truth, doesn't actualy void the lore, just makes it even more infuriating to deal with. To think none of it is actually lore-breaking, but yet is executed so poorly compaired to the previous entries, is maddening to most of the fans, as it beggs the question "if they checked the lore, why is the plot so rushed?" It may not be a horrible game, but it certenly doesn't stand on par with ME1's storytelling.
Yes, alot of equally crazy things happen in the other games, so that's not the problem. The problem is that it seems like ME3 content is more cramed together then ME1 & 2. Compered to them, it seem executed so poorly that it feels like you have to stop and scratch your head - something I rarely did in ME1. Even the 50,000 year old sentiant starship plot was acceptible to me, because it was executed soundly, and there was a good bulid-up to it, with some subtle hints here and there.
I did a bit of head-scratching at the Lazarus Project. And at the fact that Reapers are "grown" from liquid DNA wasn't really that bad, though I paused. It made it seem quite lovecraftian that they were made from liquid "essence."
What REALLY raised my eyebrows was the Human-Reaper boss battle. Don't get me wrong, it was awsome, but I was left wondering as to how the hell I was fighting the thing. I flashed back to Metroid Prime at least once during that fight.
ME3 wasn't horrible. It was actually a great ride. But, it had alot of plot-points that left me head-scratching.  The plot had good, interesting elements, but I felt that they weren't pulled off nearly as well as ME1. The only one that truly felt like it was perfect was Tuchanka. Rannoch was good, but it vilinized the quarians to the max, instead of trying to balance out the differing views. Choices like the Human Council Represenitive and the Rachni Queen felt a bit pointless. ESPECALLY the Human Council Rep choice. And characters like Paul Grayson being mentioned with no prior in-game context feels rushed and sloppy, as you'd need to read the books to get the refrence. And Kai Leng's character wasn't done justice at all. From top-notch ex-N7 assassin, to Adam Jenson-wanabee Cyber-Ninja.
All in all, even though the game is strong, there is ALOT of wasted potental in the content, and it really saddens me that so much of the plot has such a massive level of polt potental that was wasted because of poor execution.

Best explanation I've been able to make for ME3 is "a bunch of pretty good ideas awkwardly crammed together". It's like having an expensive vase, breaking it and then sticking the pieces together with chewing gum. It's weird. There are so many memorable moments starting with heroic deaths and ending with one-liners and interrupts. Yet when you put everything together - it just doesn't work out. Here's hoping ME4 gets the back on the track (the KOTOR track)

[Xamufam]

The problem there is lorebreaking stuff in Me 3
Catalyst- part of the citadel, why didn't he take over the citadel shut down the relays & bring in the reapers
Relays-shutdown during the protheanwar bit not this time,
Citadel-not taken over by the reapers
Mars-you just happened to find a reaper killing device
Crucible-vigil didnt know anything about it but sid know about indoctrinadet spies & how to detect it, how did the prothean build it if they had intersteller travel they would not get wiped out

It's because Me 2, me3 got this way & poor planning

Modifié par Troxa, 24 janvier 2013 - 04:49 .

[Maxster_]

Meltemph wrote...

I think people creating all these plausible scenario's are missing the point... The construction of the crucible plot should have been explained in enough detail you could call it, in the words of Asimov "plausible gobbledygook".

They didn't do this, and essentially told us to just accept it and come up with your own explanation. The lack of details in ME3 is infuriating(and the crucible is just the most obvious) ME2 had its issues with this as well, just not as bad. The reaper plot to ME3 just comes across as ham-fisted, to be frank.

Problem with the Crucible is not that it is not explained.
Problem with the Crucible is that it is can not be explained.
Passing through more than 2 cycles is just impossible.
Designing unknown device that interface with something you have no idea of it's existence, and to change something you have no idea it's existing - is impossible.

[Maxster_]

CynicalShep wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
What the hell is the Earth defense committee anyway?

I had some good lulz when I saw those guys. Defense commitee my foot, they were pathetic. Too young to have the experience, too ignorant to be useful and too scared to be effective. Hackett is just about the only proper military leader we see in game

Well, they are just asspulled to shoehorn "Take Earth Back" slogan which never made any sense in MEU.
But they didn't even gave any explanation about it.
Anyway, center of Systems Alliance, is an Arcturus Station, not Earth.

[Seboist]

Yeah, the whole "take back earth" deal never made any sense to me and was one of the first signs things were wrong with this game's story.

First off, Earth has never been the focus of anything before and so the "drama" about retaking it falls flat(I guess the devs figure since the player is on Earth that they'd feel some deep connection) and secondly, the other races have no compelling reason to send forces while their worlds are burning*.

* Until the Reapers conveniently UHAUL the citadel to Earth's orbit at the end of course.

[Mouton_Alpha]

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, the whole "take back earth" deal never made any sense to me and was one of the first signs things were wrong with this game's story.

First off, Earth has never been the focus of anything before and so the "drama" about retaking it falls flat(I guess the devs figure since the player is on Earth that they'd feel some deep connection) and secondly, the other races have no compelling reason to send forces while their worlds are burning*.

* Until the Reapers conveniently UHAUL the citadel to Earth's orbit at the end of course.

I didn't like the Earth-o-centrism as well because it felt like a shallow attempt to invoke empathy in human players - just like the "chase the boy" dream - and it felt out of place in a game where you traverse the galaxy and meet alien cultures.

Still, the Reapers did target Palaven early on as well and humans are probably second only to Turians in terms of military prowess so it does make some sense.

[Pantegana]

Why wuld anyone build a huge superweapon and pretend to know what it does or how it works? You silly!

[Maxster_]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, the whole "take back earth" deal never made any sense to me and was one of the first signs things were wrong with this game's story.

First off, Earth has never been the focus of anything before and so the "drama" about retaking it falls flat(I guess the devs figure since the player is on Earth that they'd feel some deep connection) and secondly, the other races have no compelling reason to send forces while their worlds are burning*.

* Until the Reapers conveniently UHAUL the citadel to Earth's orbit at the end of course.

I didn't like the Earth-o-centrism as well because it felt like a shallow attempt to invoke empathy in human players - just like the "chase the boy" dream - and it felt out of place in a game where you traverse the galaxy and meet alien cultures.

Still, the Reapers did target Palaven early on as well and humans are probably second only to Turians in terms of military prowess so it does make some sense.

No, it doesn't. They should take Citadel and shut down mass relays - that would make sense.

[silverexile17s]

Troxa wrote...

The problem there is lorebreaking stuff in Me 3
Catalyst- part of the citadel, why didn't he take over the citadel shut down the relays & bring in the reapers
Relays-shutdown during the protheanwar bit not this time,
Citadel-not taken over by the reapers
Mars-you just happened to find a reaper killing device
Crucible-vigil didnt know anything about it but sid know about indoctrinadet spies & how to detect it, how did the prothean build it if they had intersteller travel they would not get wiped out

It's because Me 2, me3 got this way & poor planning

In order:
Catalyst - Supposedly, whatever the protheans did to sabotage the Citadel, put the Catalyst in some form of Stasis.
Relays - The Citadel is their control hub. You need to take control of it to shut down the realy network. Which the Reapers failed to do this time.
Citadel - We took care of the in ME1, remember? We prevented Sovergien from opening the Citadel relay. The entire point of ME1 was making sure they couldn't take the Citadel in the first strike like before.
Mars - ......... Oaky, you win there. I got nothing to say on that except "bad pacing of plot."
Crucible - Vigil was programed after Ilos went dark. Therefore, with the information network gone, and the empire so fractured that "none of them knew what the others were doing", basically NOTHING about the war was known to Vigil, except what the head scientists could speculate from the schorced aftermath after waking from cryo. Which wasn't much.

[silverexile17s]

Maxster_ wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

I think people creating all these plausible scenario's are missing the point... The construction of the crucible plot should have been explained in enough detail you could call it, in the words of Asimov "plausible gobbledygook".

They didn't do this, and essentially told us to just accept it and come up with your own explanation. The lack of details in ME3 is infuriating(and the crucible is just the most obvious) ME2 had its issues with this as well, just not as bad. The reaper plot to ME3 just comes across as ham-fisted, to be frank.

Problem with the Crucible is not that it is not explained.
Problem with the Crucible is that it is can not be explained.
Passing through more than 2 cycles is just impossible.
Designing unknown device that interface with something you have no idea of it's existence, and to change something you have no idea it's existing - is impossible.

You are only right on "it's not explained." There ARE explinations to it. Just not one that is set in stone.
And the protheans could send one of their people 50,000 ahead. As Liara demonstrated, it's not that hard to preserve data and information.
....are you just ignoring everyone? The people who built the device originally DID HAVE A CLEAR IDEA OF WHAT THEY WERE BUILDING. Stop with the "build unknow device for unknown purpose" asspull already. They HAD to know it existed to build the Crucible. It's only impossible otherwise, therefore, knowing what they were building, and what it was for, is the only logical explination.
Then again, logical explinations never had an effect on you before.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 janvier 2013 - 08:26 .

[silverexile17s]

Maxster_ wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...
What the hell is the Earth defense committee anyway?

I had some good lulz when I saw those guys. Defense commitee my foot, they were pathetic. Too young to have the experience, too ignorant to be useful and too scared to be effective. Hackett is just about the only proper military leader we see in game

Well, they are just asspulled to shoehorn "Take Earth Back" slogan which never made any sense in MEU.
But they didn't even gave any explanation about it.
Anyway, center of Systems Alliance, is an Arcturus Station, not Earth.

Arcturus was wiped out on the way to Earth. It was wreckage before the Reapers even landed. Hackett has to sacrifice the entire Second fleet just to make sure the Third and Fifth escape. Over half the First fleet is shredded when the Reapers blitzkreg the Charon Relay, and the Fourth fleet is completely obliterated over Earth as the Reapers pour through.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 janvier 2013 - 08:29 .

[silverexile17s]

Maxster_ wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Yeah, the whole "take back earth" deal never made any sense to me and was one of the first signs things were wrong with this game's story.

First off, Earth has never been the focus of anything before and so the "drama" about retaking it falls flat(I guess the devs figure since the player is on Earth that they'd feel some deep connection) and secondly, the other races have no compelling reason to send forces while their worlds are burning*.

* Until the Reapers conveniently UHAUL the citadel to Earth's orbit at the end of course.

I didn't like the Earth-o-centrism as well because it felt like a shallow attempt to invoke empathy in human players - just like the "chase the boy" dream - and it felt out of place in a game where you traverse the galaxy and meet alien cultures.

Still, the Reapers did target Palaven early on as well and humans are probably second only to Turians in terms of military prowess so it does make some sense.

No, it doesn't. They should take Citadel and shut down mass relays - that would make sense.

Okay. That actually is the one gripe I agree with you on.
Supposedly, with the Citadel under Allied control, the can seal the station on the Reapers if the attack, so that the Reaper's can't take it without browing through the amror and the wards, damaging the station. Which should be the last thing they want to do. I admit, I literally facepalmed when heard the Reapers just took the thing so quickly. The only explination is that they had some indoctrinated on-board that stopped the arms from closing. But I'd at least like to see this to know for sure.
I just hate that something so important happened off-screan. It seems like something at least worthy of a cut-scene. Something. It's so anti-climatcic otherwise.
It could have been a great plot twist if executed right. But it's potental is wasted by making it into an off-screan moment.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 janvier 2013 - 08:39 .

[Dark_Caduceus]

They had a phallus fixation; it was just their unconscious playing tricks.

[Maxster_]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

They had a phallus fixation; it was just their unconscious playing tricks.

No, that was a giant magic wand.

[Ender Ghost]

"Hmm, we're going to get destroyed by these Reapers..."

"Yeah we need someway to beat them..."

"Wait a second! I've got it!"

"What?"

"A plot device!"

"Brilliant!"

[silverexile17s]

Maxster_ wrote...

Dark_Caduceus wrote...

They had a phallus fixation; it was just their unconscious playing tricks.

No, that was a giant magic wand.

The original idea was a device that weponozed Dark Energy. The same stuff that biotic fields are made of, and likely something that the Reapers would have no defense against.

[Mouton_Alpha]

Maxster_ wrote...

No, it doesn't. They should take Citadel and shut down mass relays - that would make sense.

Incosistences across the trilogy? OMG really?

If we are judging it by ME1-2, they shouldn't have arrived at all, because Citadel was their entry point.

In terms of ME 3, them targeting Earth made sens, because they targeted the homeworlds of the most powerful species (sorry, funny lizard people).

[Xamufam]

silverexile17s wrote...

Troxa wrote...

The problem there is lorebreaking stuff in Me 3
Catalyst- part of the citadel, why didn't he take over the citadel shut down the relays & bring in the reapers
Relays-shutdown during the protheanwar bit not this time,
Citadel-not taken over by the reapers
Mars-you just happened to find a reaper killing device
Crucible-vigil didnt know anything about it but sid know about indoctrinadet spies & how to detect it, how did the prothean build it if they had intersteller travel they would not get wiped out

It's because Me 2, me3 got this way & poor planning

In order:
Catalyst - Supposedly, whatever the protheans did to sabotage the Citadel, put the Catalyst in some form of Stasis.
Relays - The Citadel is their control hub. You need to take control of it to shut down the realy network. Which the Reapers failed to do this time.
Citadel - We took care of the in ME1, remember? We prevented Sovergien from opening the Citadel relay. The entire point of ME1 was making sure they couldn't take the Citadel in the first strike like before.
Mars - ......... Oaky, you win there. I got nothing to say on that except "bad pacing of plot."
Crucible - Vigil was programed after Ilos went dark. Therefore, with the information network gone, and the empire so fractured that "none of them knew what the others were doing", basically NOTHING about the war was known to Vigil, except what the head scientists could speculate from the schorced aftermath after waking from cryo. Which wasn't much.

In the ending of me 3 you see that the catalyst has control over the citadel
Catalyst-The prothean didn't even know what the catalyst was, you cant put something in stasis if you don't know about it, the scientists on ilos dind't know about it
Vigil- your just assuming vigil was programmed after it went dark
Vigil did know that the indoctrinated were left to die but nothing about what happened to them
Crucible-I really have a problem with it, we know nothing about it we build it don't test it

They should have planned me trilogy better I think you will agree with me on that
www.holdtheline.com/threads/why-does-me2-get-so-much-****-for-story-and-etc-yet-folk-dont-rip-that-hard-on-me3.3353/

Kabraxal wrote...

So... the Catalyst resides in the
Citadel the entire time, letting the organic races "sabotage" the
ability of the Citadel to be used as a relay by blocking the keeper's
from getting a signal. Though the Catalyst obviously demonstrates it
can control the Citadel. And let's not forget its existence completely
makes Sovereign's presence pointless. Why leave any behind when all
they need is the Catalyst to send the signal and ready the relay?

Modifié par Troxa, 24 janvier 2013 - 10:19 .

[Maxster_]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Maxster_ wrote...

No, it doesn't. They should take Citadel and shut down mass relays - that would make sense.

Incosistences across the trilogy? OMG really?

If we are judging it by ME1-2, they shouldn't have arrived at all, because Citadel was their entry point.

In terms of ME 3, them targeting Earth made sens, because they targeted the homeworlds of the most powerful species (sorry, funny lizard people).

Well, ME3 completely destroyed overarching series plot, so it doesn't even matters anymore.

[Mouton_Alpha]

Maxster_ wrote...

Well, ME3 completely destroyed overarching series plot, so it doesn't even matters anymore.

It has many stupid holes, but I thought the overarching series plot was confronting the Reapers.

[silverexile17s]

Troxa wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Troxa wrote...

The problem there is lorebreaking stuff in Me 3
Catalyst- part of the citadel, why didn't he take over the citadel shut down the relays & bring in the reapers
Relays-shutdown during the protheanwar bit not this time,
Citadel-not taken over by the reapers
Mars-you just happened to find a reaper killing device
Crucible-vigil didnt know anything about it but sid know about indoctrinadet spies & how to detect it, how did the prothean build it if they had intersteller travel they would not get wiped out

It's because Me 2, me3 got this way & poor planning

In order:
Catalyst - Supposedly, whatever the protheans did to sabotage the Citadel, put the Catalyst in some form of Stasis.
Relays - The Citadel is their control hub. You need to take control of it to shut down the realy network. Which the Reapers failed to do this time.
Citadel - We took care of the in ME1, remember? We prevented Sovergien from opening the Citadel relay. The entire point of ME1 was making sure they couldn't take the Citadel in the first strike like before.
Mars - ......... Oaky, you win there. I got nothing to say on that except "bad pacing of plot."
Crucible - Vigil was programed after Ilos went dark. Therefore, with the information network gone, and the empire so fractured that "none of them knew what the others were doing", basically NOTHING about the war was known to Vigil, except what the head scientists could speculate from the schorced aftermath after waking from cryo. Which wasn't much.

In the ending of me 3 you see that the catalyst has control over the citadel
Catalyst-The prothean didn't even know what the catalyst was, you cant put something in stasis if you don't know about it, the scientists on ilos dind't know about it
Vigil- your just assuming vigil was programmed after it went dark
Vigil did know that the indoctrinated were left to die but nothing about what happened to them
Crucible-I really have a problem with it, we know nothing about it we build it don't test it

They should have planned me trilogy better I think you will agree with me on that
www.holdtheline.com/threads/why-does-me2-get-so-much-****-for-story-and-etc-yet-folk-dont-rip-that-hard-on-me3.3353/

Kabraxal wrote...

So... the Catalyst resides in the
Citadel the entire time, letting the organic races "sabotage" the
ability of the Citadel to be used as a relay by blocking the keeper's
from getting a signal. Though the Catalyst obviously demonstrates it
can control the Citadel. And let's not forget its existence completely
makes Sovereign's presence pointless. Why leave any behind when all
they need is the Catalyst to send the signal and ready the relay?

1. Citadel - AFTER the Reapers take it again. So that would make sense. See?
2.  Vigil says it doesn't know what they did to seal the station. Perhaps the scientists from the Conduit project, after getting to the Citadel, DID find the Catalyst, and put it into stasis. They may have discovered it after arriving, and put it into stasis.
So yes, it is indeed possible the prothean tamperong put the catalyst into stasis.
3. Actually, that ISN'T an assumption. Vigil directly states that he was spicifically programed to be the overseer for the stasis pods. He says that he was programed souly for that. Which means he was indeed programed after Ilos went dark.
4. That could be information it learned when the scientists were brought out of stasis hundreds of years later. They could have speculated on what happened after bringing Ilos back out of the dark, following the retreat of the Reapers. They could learn things at first glacne, like the indoctrinated, but no other details.
5 Crucible - There was no way to know if it was or wasn't a one-shot device. You think they would risk the possibilaty of wasting their only chance?

And again, the Catalyst could likely have been rendered inactive by the prothean's sabatoge. They could have stumbled across it, and found a way to put it into stasis, which the Reapers finally undo when they re-take the station.

None of this voides the lore. It skits the edge, but doesn't break the lore.
However, I do agree with you Troxa 100% in that, despite having some good ideas, the game was not executed anywhere near it's full potental.