330 réponses à ce sujet

[Fawx9]

Honestly, when I think about it, I'd rather that reaper not been Harby at all and we dealt with him some other way either at the end or previously. That scene, although illogical, probably would have worked fine if it was there from the start in the OE so we wouldn't nit pick it as much. However it still suffers because you then go through 10 minutes of painful dialogue with almost no real payoff afterwords.

ME1 had the scenes of Sovereign getting blown to hell and then you walking out of the rubble. ME2 (at least the destroy part) had the escape run + Normandy flight away from the black hole + the walk in the cargo hold.

Both these somewhat felt like hell ya moments. ME3 however ended after 10 minutes of dialogue, and now a fancy speech. To me there was no big payoff for stopping the Reapers, you just kinda watcheda fancy light show after a horrible conversation. Then when you think about the beam run being Harby's last bit you(at least I) get kinda annoyed with how stupid it actually was.

Modifié par Fawx9, 16 janvier 2013 - 06:31 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Master Che wrote...

I still see much butthurt from the EC.  Mainly, the Normandy Evac sequence.  The common lament circulates around how Harbinger NOT shooting down the Normandy didn't make sense.  I argue the contrary.

First, we have to remember why Harbinger made a beeline to the beam: To stop anyone from getting to it.  Remember this.  To STOP anyone from getting TO IT.

Now, let's fast forward...Hammer advances on the beam...pew pew pew!  To quote The Crow, "...bang! F**K, I'm Dead"!.  The Normandy comes to evac people AWAY from the area.  That's right, AWAY. 

Think about this for a second: Reapers.  What are they? Essentially, they are machines.  Sure, they have organic stuff in 'em, but they are really just fancy machines.  And like machines, they do not make decisions based on emotions.  By focusing resources on something that isn't a threat at the expense of focusing resources at a still INCOMING threat is illogical. 

"But Master Che", you say, "How does Harbinger know what the Normandy is going to do"?

I propose the following:
1) Shepard's yelling "I need an evac right now".  I'm pretty sure Harby could pick that up with "reaper ears". 
2) The Normandy comes in perpendicular to the beam.  Not flying TO IT.  And then lands, scoops up the injured, lifts up and goes AWAY from the scene.  Not to the beam like everything else its shooting at.


At this point, taking out the Normandy would be nothing more than a gratuitous "F**K YOU B***H".  Something that serves no other purpose but to be spiteful or vengeful.  Something...human. 

See where I'm coming from?

All I see here is weak excuses for a badly done scene. The Normandy parked pretty much right on the "ramp" leading to the beam. Destroying the Normandy right there would go a loooooong way to stopping people from getting to the beam. Then there's the explosive effect of what happens when a ship goes BOOM. Remember the intro where the cruiser/dreadnought went BOOM? Remember how it messed crap up and put Shepard, who was pretty far away almost on his butt? Yeah.

Oh, and also, any beam used to kill the Normandy can just keep going to kill more targets.

So basically, the reason the Normandy wasn't toast was because... shut up and enjoy our crappy explanation for your crew being on the Normandy.

[nos_astra]

WARLOK028 wrote...

What about Sovereigns Reaper code that is part of EDI, could that help to explain Harbingers lack of interest in the Normandy?

Reaper code doesn't make Harbinger blind. I'm sure he's intelligent enough to connect the dots: Warship looks like an Alliance frigate, possibly the Normandy, but it has Reaper code (assuming EDI would let the enemy go through her code). Nah, still it can't possibly be a Reaper.

Modifié par klarabella, 16 janvier 2013 - 06:44 .

[111987]

www.youtube.com/watch

While the Reapers would likely discover the truth after enough time or 'pings' when scanning, this is an explanation.

[legion999]

Master Che wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Right, merciless reaper does not kill its nemesis and allows them to retreat for a good couple of minutes politely waiting? Right....no

Nemesis...that's a human concept based on feelings of vengance and spite...Right....no.

Try again.

“Harbinger speaks of you." “Focus on Shepard." “You escaped us before, Shepard, not again."

[Ticonderoga117]

111987 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

While the Reapers would likely discover the truth after enough time or 'pings' when scanning, this is an explanation.

Or just by getting any actual data on the Normandy. The Normandy is too small, not shaped correctly, or have the right drive signature, to fool looking like a Reaper.

Of course, it is enough to fool automated systems like the Omega 4 relay, but an actual Reaper? No way in hell.

[Chrumpek]

Dude hello, at the start of the game Normandy is in shooting range of couple of reapers and they do not give a crap. They prefer shooting buildings, ground and evac shuttles.

[111987]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

111987 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

While the Reapers would likely discover the truth after enough time or 'pings' when scanning, this is an explanation.

Or just by getting any actual data on the Normandy. The Normandy is too small, not shaped correctly, or have the right drive signature, to fool looking like a Reaper.

Of course, it is enough to fool automated systems like the Omega 4 relay, but an actual Reaper? No way in hell.

EDI is not talking about fooling automated systems. She is talking about fooling Reapers. What she says>what you say.

[archangel1996]

111987 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

111987 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

While the Reapers would likely discover the truth after enough time or 'pings' when scanning, this is an explanation.

Or just by getting any actual data on the Normandy. The Normandy is too small, not shaped correctly, or have the right drive signature, to fool looking like a Reaper.

Of course, it is enough to fool automated systems like the Omega 4 relay, but an actual Reaper? No way in hell.

EDI is not talking about fooling automated systems. She is talking about fooling Reapers. What she says>what you say.

Yeah, and the Collectors' Oculus?
The IFF, like the occultation, goes to **** when there is eye contact
Please, now don't say that the Reapers don't have eyes.......seriously i already heared that

Modifié par archangel1996, 16 janvier 2013 - 07:01 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I have the answer and I've told you guys this before.

Do you remember when EDI imitated the Reaper. She said she was practicing just in case of an emergency.

"We are the Harbinger of your salvation through your destruction."

Okay that was creepy.

The Normandy has the reaper IFF. She's done some very fine adjustments to it so it cannot be distinguished between regular reaper traffic. So I'm pretty sure she can also communicate with reapers as well.

EDI: Harbinger! Wait! Don't shoot! It's me, Sam!
Harbinger: Sam? Wait, I thought you got blown up by that mass accelerator 37 million years ago, and you don't look like a reaper.
EDI: Part of me did, but these guys from Cerberus came aboard and I indoctrinated them and they put me in this new shell. Like it? It's all sleek and sexy.
Harbinger: So what are you doing?
EDI: I'm helping these humans ascend.
Harbinger: Wait a minute. Something isn't right here. You're not Sam.
EDI: Well, it's been nice talking to you. Gotta run. Back to the war and all that. Ta ta!!

Shepard starts run to beam

Harbinger: grumble grumble .... god....... save us ..... *blast*

Okay, I know it's an ass pull, but it makes that entire scene work. It's what goes on behind the scene that matters here.

[HomerIsLegend]

These are my fav. threads on BSN. Guy creates thread stating his opinion on a piece of the series... invites people to join in and discuss. Then proceeds to shoot down anyone who has an opinion that differs from his... cause his is obviously the correct one.

[111987]

archangel1996 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

111987 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

While the Reapers would likely discover the truth after enough time or 'pings' when scanning, this is an explanation.

Or just by getting any actual data on the Normandy. The Normandy is too small, not shaped correctly, or have the right drive signature, to fool looking like a Reaper.

Of course, it is enough to fool automated systems like the Omega 4 relay, but an actual Reaper? No way in hell.

EDI is not talking about fooling automated systems. She is talking about fooling Reapers. What she says>what you say.

Yeah, and the Collectors' Oculus?
The IFF, like the occultation, goes to **** when there is eye contact
Please, now don't say that the Reapers don't have eyes.......seriously i already heared that

EDI obviously hadn't perfected her Reaper disguise at the time of the suicide mission. Plus, there weren't thousands of Reapers flying around the galaxy then.

The Reapers don't have eyes, they have sensors.

[Ticonderoga117]

111987 wrote...
EDI is not talking about fooling automated systems. She is talking about fooling Reapers. What she says>what you say.

Trying to fool a Reaper goes out the window when the Reaper can gather data on the Normandy.

They are more the simple machines. They can figure out that 1+2=/=4. The IFF works against simple automated systems an against Reapers at extrmemly long ranges. After that, you better run or use stealth.

[Ticonderoga117]

111987 wrote...

EDI obviously hadn't perfected her Reaper disguise at the time of the suicide mission. Plus, there weren't thousands of Reapers flying around the galaxy then.

The Reapers don't have eyes, they have sensors.

Then how did they get through the Relay?

And the Reapers can still "see" the Normandy through LIDAR, RADAR, Infra-red, Ultra-violet, etc. The Normandy does not a Reaper look like.

[Meltemph]

I'm assuming that everyone here thinks that the close pan shot of Harb during that scene was just a coincidence? I thought it was fairly clear that whoever did the cinematography of that scene wanted use to know that harb saw them, but purposely chose not to shoot it down.

I'm not sure why people feel the need to create all these theories, when the best one was "he let them escape", the why of it is just for us to speculate, I imagine.

[Ticonderoga117]

Meltemph wrote...

I'm assuming that everyone here thinks that the close pan shot of Harb during that scene was just a coincidence? I thought it was fairly clear that whoever did the cinematography of that scene wanted use to know that harb saw them, but purposely chose not to shoot it down.

I'm not sure why people feel the need to create all these theories, when the best one was "he let them escape", the why of it is just for us to speculate, I imagine.

Because... why? Every other time the Normandy has met a Reaper, the Reaper has tried to damage or destroy the Normandy. So what's different now?

[Brhino]

I'm not sure why people feel the need to create all these theories, when the best one was "he let them escape", the why of it is just for us to speculate, I imagine.

The problem is that no-one has yet speculated a reason (that holds up to scrutiny) why Harbinger would act against his normal behavior as we believe we understand it based on the previous 1.95 games.  Speculating about deliberate, logical mysteries is all well and good.  Speculating about plot holes just brings us back to "yup, it's a plot hole.  I have put more thought into this than the writers did".

I'd be as happy as anyone if someone could bring me a plasuable explination on this, but nobody has yet.

[Fixers0]

So Harby didn't fire just because?

[111987]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDI obviously hadn't perfected her Reaper disguise at the time of the suicide mission. Plus, there weren't thousands of Reapers flying around the galaxy then.

The Reapers don't have eyes, they have sensors.

Then how did they get through the Relay?

And the Reapers can still "see" the Normandy through LIDAR, RADAR, Infra-red, Ultra-violet, etc. The Normandy does not a Reaper look like.

They got through the Relay because as you said yourself, fooling a Relay is far easier than foooling a Reaper.

And yes, I know Reapers can still 'see' the Normandy, but destroying it immediately doesn't have to be the first conclusion Harbinger reaches. It's not too much of a stretch to say, for example, that the Reapers have appropriated organic ships for their troops throughout the war.

[archangel1996]

111987 wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

111987 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

While the Reapers would likely discover the truth after enough time or 'pings' when scanning, this is an explanation.

Or just by getting any actual data on the Normandy. The Normandy is too small, not shaped correctly, or have the right drive signature, to fool looking like a Reaper.

Of course, it is enough to fool automated systems like the Omega 4 relay, but an actual Reaper? No way in hell.

EDI is not talking about fooling automated systems. She is talking about fooling Reapers. What she says>what you say.

Yeah, and the Collectors' Oculus?
The IFF, like the occultation, goes to **** when there is eye contact
Please, now don't say that the Reapers don't have eyes.......seriously i already heared that

EDI obviously hadn't perfected her Reaper disguise at the time of the suicide mission. Plus, there weren't thousands of Reapers flying around the galaxy then.

The Reapers don't have eyes, they have sensors.

Eh, obviously, i'm sorry when EDI says that? obviously eh
So, to you, an Oculus, that is like a clean drone, can individuate the Normandy but a Reaper, the boos of the Reaper actually, can't...mmm

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Master Che wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

Right, merciless reaper does not kill its nemesis and allows them to retreat for a good couple of minutes politely waiting? Right....no

Nemesis...that's a human concept based on feelings of vengance and spite...Right....no.

Try again.

Have you played Leviathan? The reapers recognize Shepard as a threat. No matter which way you slice it, leaving him and his crew aboard the Normandy alive just doesn't make sense.

[archangel1996]

111987 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDI obviously hadn't perfected her Reaper disguise at the time of the suicide mission. Plus, there weren't thousands of Reapers flying around the galaxy then.

The Reapers don't have eyes, they have sensors.

Then how did they get through the Relay?

And the Reapers can still "see" the Normandy through LIDAR, RADAR, Infra-red, Ultra-violet, etc. The Normandy does not a Reaper look like.

They got through the Relay because as you said yourself, fooling a Relay is far easier than foooling a Reaper.

And yes, I know Reapers can still 'see' the Normandy, but destroying it immediately doesn't have to be the first conclusion Harbinger reaches. It's not too much of a stretch to say, for example, that the Reapers have appropriated organic ships for their troops throughout the war.

We are in the corner guys, we have to admit it, he has the answers, he sees the truth....
This is getting ridiculous and more ridiculous from time to time, good Go....Casper

Modifié par archangel1996, 16 janvier 2013 - 07:33 .

[Ticonderoga117]

111987 wrote...
They got through the Relay because as you said yourself, fooling a Relay is far easier than foooling a Reaper.

And yes, I know Reapers can still 'see' the Normandy, but destroying it immediately doesn't have to be the first conclusion Harbinger reaches. It's not too much of a stretch to say, for example, that the Reapers have appropriated organic ships for their troops throughout the war.

Why wouldn't it be? Destroying the Normandy right there and then not only helps secure the beam by killing/disrupting the forces moving on it, but also removes one of the most effective warships we have.

Plus compared to an actual Reaper, the Normandy can't haul nearly a fraction the number of troops a Reaper can.

There is no good, in-universe, reasoning for Harbinger to simply "let" the Normandy get away from spitting distance.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

111987 wrote...

EDI obviously hadn't perfected her Reaper disguise at the time of the suicide mission. Plus, there weren't thousands of Reapers flying around the galaxy then.

The Reapers don't have eyes, they have sensors.

Then how did they get through the Relay?

And the Reapers can still "see" the Normandy through LIDAR, RADAR, Infra-red, Ultra-violet, etc. The Normandy does not a Reaper look like.

 I'm sure the Normandy has all sorts of countermeasures for IR, UV, an LIDAR, and RADAR, that it uses on board. But both sides have developed countermeasures to the countermeasures so we're at a stand off here.

There's one other factor you're going to have to take into consideration:

The reapers are really dumb and always have been, and are really being controlled by Starbrat who is the mastermind behind the entire operation. They are currently having too much fun blowing up stuff to notice the Normandy. Harbinger included.

This is why Harbinger hesitates so long. Harbinger is trying to figure out "Uh... what the? A ship just landed down here. How did that happen? And there's people getting on it. What should I do? Starbrat! Starbrat!

Starbrat: Wait a minute I'm taking out these three dreadnoughts ass****! Triple Kill!!! Yes!!! Okay, what is it?

Harbinger: It's too late. They're gone.

So you can take this ass pull or the other one.

[archangel1996]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

111987 wrote...
They got through the Relay because as you said yourself, fooling a Relay is far easier than foooling a Reaper.

And yes, I know Reapers can still 'see' the Normandy, but destroying it immediately doesn't have to be the first conclusion Harbinger reaches. It's not too much of a stretch to say, for example, that the Reapers have appropriated organic ships for their troops throughout the war.

Why wouldn't it be? Destroying the Normandy right there and then not only helps secure the beam by killing/disrupting the forces moving on it, but also removes one of the most effective warships we have.

Plus compared to an actual Reaper, the Normandy can't haul nearly a fraction the number of troops a Reaper can.

There is no good, in-universe, reasoning for Harbinger to simply "let" the Normandy get away from spitting distance.

Well, there is an explanation
Harbi doesn't kill the squadmates when Shep is there
Harbi kill the squadmates when Shep isn't there but it don't kill Shep
Harbi doesn't shoot at Shep like it shooted to anyone else, so with a direct shoot that would vaporize Shep
The banned world, there an I and a T
Or simply the other words, there is artistic and there is integrity