I'm assuming that everyone here thinks that the close pan shot of Harb during that scene was just a coincidence? I thought it was fairly clear that whoever did the cinematography of that scene wanted use to know that harb saw them, but purposely chose not to shoot it down.
I'm not sure why people feel the need to create all these theories, when the best one was "he let them escape", the why of it is just for us to speculate, I imagine.
Because... why? Every other time the Normandy has met a Reaper, the Reaper has tried to damage or destroy the Normandy. So what's different now?
Doesnt really matter. If you are trying to find an answer that wasnt in the game, you probably should take a look at developer intent. That scene was deliberate, to claim otherwise is to think they accidently represented the scene like that.
sH0tgUn jUliA wrote... I'm sure the Normandy has all sorts of countermeasures for IR, UV, an LIDAR, and RADAR, that it uses on board. But both sides have developed countermeasures to the countermeasures so we're at a stand off here.
There's one other factor you're going to have to take into consideration:
The reapers are really dumb and always have been, and are really being controlled by Starbrat who is the mastermind behind the entire operation. They are currently having too much fun blowing up stuff to notice the Normandy. Harbinger included.
This is why Harbinger hesitates so long. Harbinger is trying to figure out "Uh... what the? A ship just landed down here. How did that happen? And there's people getting on it. What should I do? Starbrat! Starbrat!
Starbrat: Wait a minute I'm taking out these three dreadnoughts ass****! Triple Kill!!! Yes!!! Okay, what is it?
Harbinger: It's too late. They're gone.
So you can take this ass pull or the other one.
So, just shut up and take the crap writing? Yeah, no. A few instances are ok, but when the entire game is loaded with crap like this, it's horrible.
sH0tgUn jUliA wrote... I'm sure the Normandy has all sorts of countermeasures for IR, UV, an LIDAR, and RADAR, that it uses on board. But both sides have developed countermeasures to the countermeasures so we're at a stand off here.
There's one other factor you're going to have to take into consideration:
The reapers are really dumb and always have been, and are really being controlled by Starbrat who is the mastermind behind the entire operation. They are currently having too much fun blowing up stuff to notice the Normandy. Harbinger included.
This is why Harbinger hesitates so long. Harbinger is trying to figure out "Uh... what the? A ship just landed down here. How did that happen? And there's people getting on it. What should I do? Starbrat! Starbrat!
Starbrat: Wait a minute I'm taking out these three dreadnoughts ass****! Triple Kill!!! Yes!!! Okay, what is it?
Harbinger: It's too late. They're gone.
So you can take this ass pull or the other one.
So, just shut up and take the crap writing? Yeah, no. A few instances are ok, but when the entire game is loaded with crap like this, it's horrible.
Meltemph wrote... Doesnt really matter. If you are trying to find an answer that wasnt in the game, you probably should take a look at developer intent. That scene was deliberate, to claim otherwise is to think they accidently represented the scene like that.
If we need to rely on developer intent, it shapes up to something liek this: "Look, we are lazy. Yes, it is stupid and makes the Reapers even more incompetent. Just shut up and enjoy your free content."
Especially when there are numerous other ways to do a similiar scene to not make it so fantastically stupid.
sH0tgUn jUliA wrote... I'm sure the Normandy has all sorts of countermeasures for IR, UV, an LIDAR, and RADAR, that it uses on board. But both sides have developed countermeasures to the countermeasures so we're at a stand off here.
There's one other factor you're going to have to take into consideration:
The reapers are really dumb and always have been, and are really being controlled by Starbrat who is the mastermind behind the entire operation. They are currently having too much fun blowing up stuff to notice the Normandy. Harbinger included.
This is why Harbinger hesitates so long. Harbinger is trying to figure out "Uh... what the? A ship just landed down here. How did that happen? And there's people getting on it. What should I do? Starbrat! Starbrat!
Starbrat: Wait a minute I'm taking out these three dreadnoughts ass****! Triple Kill!!! Yes!!! Okay, what is it?
Harbinger: It's too late. They're gone.
So you can take this ass pull or the other one.
So, just shut up and take the crap writing? Yeah, no. A few instances are ok, but when the entire game is loaded with crap like this, it's horrible.
It's not something you can comprehend.
u........Sovereign? you talk like him or her, say me that you are him or her please *_*
Modifié par archangel1996, 16 janvier 2013 - 07:44 .
Meltemph wrote... Doesnt really matter. If you are trying to find an answer that wasnt in the game, you probably should take a look at developer intent. That scene was deliberate, to claim otherwise is to think they accidently represented the scene like that.
If we need to rely on developer intent, it shapes up to something liek this: "Look, we are lazy. Yes, it is stupid and makes the Reapers even more incompetent. Just shut up and enjoy your free content."
Especially when there are numerous other ways to do a similiar scene to not make it so fantastically stupid.
I've never, and you will never see me do this, make the claim that the scene was well put together. However, that scene wasnt an accident, that was a creative cinematogrphy decsions, that had intent. What it was, who knows, it probably was for "speculation for everyone", honestly.
...what? What about the Reapers that shoot down evac shuttles on Earth? The children and civllians on those shuttles are a threat, but they die anyway.
Harbinger would've shot the Normandy down if he could. My only reasoning would be seeing as the Normandy's such a large ship with a powerful drive core, the resulting explosion would destroy the beam and maybe Harbinger with it being that close.
...what? What about the Reapers that shoot down evac shuttles on Earth? The children and civllians on those shuttles are a threat, but they die anyway.
Harbinger would've shot the Normandy down if he could. My only reasoning would be seeing as the Normandy's such a large ship with a powerful drive core, the resulting explosion would destroy the beam and maybe Harbinger with it being that close.
Huh? You are trying to creating possibilites by creating a headcannon. I am taking the scene as is, im not trying to imagine rationalities to try and make sense of the scene(to many nonsensical scenes to do that, anyways). You are taking stabs in teh dark to try and rationalize away the scene because there is no context to that scene. I'm saying, instead of creating a bunch of theories, just take the scene as is, sicne it is all we know and then when you add in the cinemetography direction with that scene, it is clear that they wanted to convey that harbinger saw them and chose to do nothing.
You can say he was scared or preocupied or whatever else you want, but that all it is, you creating a scenario. As it stands what we do know is, Harb did nothing about the Normandy, the why of it was clearly something Bioware didnt want us to know.
Meltemph wrote... I've never, and you will never see me do this, make the claim that the scene was well put together. However, that scene wasnt an accident, that was a creative cinematogrphy decsions, that had intent. What it was, who knows, it probably was for "speculation for everyone", honestly.
And that's perhaps the most sad part. Scenes not well put together in the closing of what should've been one of the best RPG's.
...what? What about the Reapers that shoot down evac shuttles on Earth? The children and civllians on those shuttles are a threat, but they die anyway.
Harbinger would've shot the Normandy down if he could. My only reasoning would be seeing as the Normandy's such a large ship with a powerful drive core, the resulting explosion would destroy the beam and maybe Harbinger with it being that close.
Huh? You are trying to creating possibilites by creating a headcannon. I am taking the scene as is, im not trying to imagine rationalities to try and make sense of the scene(to many nonsensical scenes to do that, anyways). You are taking stabs in teh dark to try and rationalize away the scene because there is no context to that scene. I'm saying, instead of creating a bunch of theories, just take the scene as is, sicne it is all we know and then when you add in the cinemetography direction with that scene, it is clear that they wanted to convey that harbinger saw them and chose to do nothing.
You can say he was scared or preocupied or whatever else you want, but that all it is, you creating a scenario. As it stands what we do know is, Harb did nothing about the Normandy, the why of it was clearly something Bioware didnt want us to know.
I wasn't even replying to you, I was replying to the OP.
I still see much butthurt from the EC. Mainly, the Normandy Evac sequence. The common lament circulates around how Harbinger NOT shooting down the Normandy didn't make sense. I argue the contrary.
You will fail.
First, we have to remember why Harbinger made a beeline to the beam: To stop anyone from getting to it. Remember this. To STOP anyone from getting TO IT.
This makes absolutely no sense. Reapers could just turn off the beam, like they were doing in cutscenes. Anyway, Harbringer descended from orbit only because all military leadership of council races is consists of morons.
Now, let's fast forward...Hammer advances on the beam...pew pew pew! To quote The Crow, "...bang! F**K, I'm Dead"!. The Normandy comes to evac people AWAY from the area. That's right, AWAY.
Reaper Capabilities ... The main gun on a Reaper capital ship dwarfs that of the Alliance's Everest-class dreadnoughts. No dreadnought has yet survived a direct hit from the weapon. Estimates put its destructive power anywhere from 132 to 454 kilotons of TNT. Even if the target is hardened, as in the case of a surface-based missile silo, the gun can instead bury the target beneath molten metal. Precise targeting computers and correctors also give the Reaper weapons a longer effective range than organics' dreadnoughts or cruisers.
So, Harbringer could just obliterate entire offensive from orbit with one shot.
Think about this for a second: Reapers. What are they? Essentially, they are machines. Sure, they have organic stuff in 'em, but they are really just fancy machines. And like machines, they do not make decisions based on emotions. By focusing resources on something that isn't a threat at the expense of focusing resources at a still INCOMING threat is illogical.
So, reapers don't make decisions based on emotions, therefore Harbringer decided to descend, lowered power of his guns and forgot about his main gun, to shoot individual soldiers. Because reasons, obviously. I like how are you contradicting yourself. Or just have no idea about ME lore. Whatever, your point is void.
"But Master Che", you say, "How does Harbinger know what the Normandy is going to do"?
I propose the following: 1) Shepard's yelling "I need an evac right now". I'm pretty sure Harby could pick that up with "reaper ears". 2) The Normandy comes in perpendicular to the beam. Not flying TO IT. And then lands, scoops up the injured, lifts up and goes AWAY from the scene. Not to the beam like everything else its shooting at.
At this point, taking out the Normandy would be nothing more than a gratuitous "F**K YOU B***H". Something that serves no other purpose but to be spiteful or vengeful. Something...human.
Normandy is shot by harbinger. The ensuing destruction would mean that its entire stores of He3 would ignite. Thereby turning the ground around the beam into an inferno filled with wreckage. Not to mention the Eezo contamination.
Shooting the normandy would be one of the SMART things to do to protect the beam.
Im not even going to go into detail on how the entire scene is retarded.
Well, smart thing would be to turn off the beam. Next smart thing would be to use his main gun from orbit.
Maybe you can explain why the Normandy can even enter Earth's atmosphere when the codex says otherwise, well I suppose the codex has already been smashed to pieces about that with the Firewalker DLC of ME2.
You also got to remember, the IFF only outputs a SIGNAL, it will not mask the visual representation of something, so Harbinger, with his big ugly yellow eyes could see the Normandy. I would imagine Harbinger's eyes would work similar to how the Geth see with their flashlight heads.
There is nothing in codex about Normandy SR-2 incapable of entering Earth atmosphere. And IFF was only plot device for ME2, nothing more.
I thought the whole Normandy pickup scene was an obvious bandaid-fix for the teleporting squadmate problem introduced in the original ending. I think that's a pretty clear reason for why Harbinger didn't shoot her down.
It's pretty funny that people can't understand priorities. As in stopping anybody and anything from making it to the Citadel via the Beam. (This priority takes precedence over blowing up the Normandy)
Some people fail to realize that there's Mako's and marines still charging the beam while you're getting your injured squadmates onto the Normandy (or those people just completely ignore the fact)
They're in denial. They don't want it to make sense, so they grasp for any straws they can, or just say "art" or "nonsensical" in order to justify their claims. It's rather funny and yet, quite pathetic at the same time.
Things don't play exactly how they imagined/wanted them to, so they search for any way to say it doesn't make sense. Pretty laughable, really.
It's pretty funny that people can't understand priorities. As in stopping anybody and anything from making it to the Citadel via the Beam. (This priority takes precedence over blowing up the Normandy)
Some people fail to realize that there's Mako's and marines still charging the beam while you're getting your injured squadmates onto the Normandy (or those people just completely ignore the fact)
They're in denial. They don't want it to make sense, so they grasp for any straws they can, or just say "art" or "nonsensical" in order to justify their claims. It's rather funny and yet, quite pathetic at the same time.
Things don't play exactly how they imagined/wanted them to, so they search for any way to say it doesn't make sense. Pretty laughable, really.
Lol. So, reapers forgotting about their main guns, which they were using for a billion years is a straw. Riight
It's pretty funny that people can't understand priorities. As in stopping anybody and anything from making it to the Citadel via the Beam. (This priority takes precedence over blowing up the Normandy)
Some people fail to realize that there's Mako's and marines still charging the beam while you're getting your injured squadmates onto the Normandy (or those people just completely ignore the fact)
They're in denial. They don't want it to make sense, so they grasp for any straws they can, or just say "art" or "nonsensical" in order to justify their claims. It's rather funny and yet, quite pathetic at the same time.
Things don't play exactly how they imagined/wanted them to, so they search for any way to say it doesn't make sense. Pretty laughable, really.
The problem is the explanation fans give sound just as bad, to be frank.
I like how are you contradicting yourself. Or just have no idea about ME lore.
To be fair, neither do the writers. The space battle scene played out NOTHING like the codex entries on weapons, ships, and tactics would indicate it should have.
Since the Normandy was "upgraded" in drydock for six months beyond the SR-2 we had in ME2, and apparently capable of in atmosphere work again like the old Normandy SR-1, wouldn't the smart thing have been to fly the Normandy as close to the beam as possible and drop them off in the Mako (oh yeah, forgot about that; we got rid of those) for the run to the beam and get as many troops into that beam as possible? Instead we get 1914 tactics from Anderson -- I was wondering if we were going to be wearing Brodies and making our way through the Jerries; 1781 tactics from Hackett -- wearing red and marching in a straight line; and a giant WTF in the end. Instead of arguing about the asinine pickup, these raise far more questions.
The reapers would not use their main gun from orbit to obliterate an offense because of the harvest.
Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 16 janvier 2013 - 08:28 .
I like how are you contradicting yourself. Or just have no idea about ME lore.
To be fair, neither do the writers. The space battle scene played out NOTHING like the codex entries on weapons, ships, and tactics would indicate it should have.
Well, some writers do know. Anyway, creating an lore-correct scene of a final battle(or any space battle) requires talent and efforts, and EAWare nowadays lacks both.
And you know, authors don't giving a damn about fiction's lore, is not an excuse for a bad writing. It is a cause of it.
It's pretty funny that people can't understand priorities. As in stopping anybody and anything from making it to the Citadel via the Beam. (This priority takes precedence over blowing up the Normandy)
Some people fail to realize that there's Mako's and marines still charging the beam while you're getting your injured squadmates onto the Normandy (or those people just completely ignore the fact)
They're in denial. They don't want it to make sense, so they grasp for any straws they can, or just say "art" or "nonsensical" in order to justify their claims. It's rather funny and yet, quite pathetic at the same time.
Things don't play exactly how they imagined/wanted them to, so they search for any way to say it doesn't make sense. Pretty laughable, really.
Lol. So, reapers forgotting about their main guns, which they were using for a billion years is a straw. Riight
Yeah, as if Harbinger couldn't spare one his many guns to take out the Normandy.
Since the Normandy was "upgraded" in drydock for six months beyond the SR-2 we had in ME2, and apparently capable of in atmosphere work again like the old Normandy SR-1, wouldn't the smart thing have been to fly the Normandy as close to the beam as possible and drop them off in the Mako (oh yeah, forgot about that; we got rid of those) for the run to the beam and get as many troops into that beam as possible? Instead we get 1914 tactics from Anderson -- I was wondering if we were going to be wearing Brodies and making our way through the Jerries; 1781 tactics from Hackett -- wearing red and marching in a straight line; and a giant WTF in the end. Instead of arguing about the asinine pickup, these raise far more questions.
Well, from where people got idea that SR-2 can't fly in atmosphere, i wonder?
Anyway, why use only Normandy? Council fleets have a lot of frigates, several frigate packs loaded with makos will do the trick.
It's pretty funny that people can't understand priorities. As in stopping anybody and anything from making it to the Citadel via the Beam. (This priority takes precedence over blowing up the Normandy)
Some people fail to realize that there's Mako's and marines still charging the beam while you're getting your injured squadmates onto the Normandy (or those people just completely ignore the fact)
They're in denial. They don't want it to make sense, so they grasp for any straws they can, or just say "art" or "nonsensical" in order to justify their claims. It's rather funny and yet, quite pathetic at the same time.
Things don't play exactly how they imagined/wanted them to, so they search for any way to say it doesn't make sense. Pretty laughable, really.
Then why not blow up the beam? Why not put troops on the Citadel so they don't have to worry? Why not shoot the Normandy which would cause a massive explosion killing all soldiers nearby? Why does the presence of marines stop Harbinger from taking a second to shoot the Normandy? Why doesn't Harbinger just use it's main gun?
It seems to me that you're the one in denial. The one who wants it to make sense.
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