330 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch
00:40, or that Reaper is quite smart or harbinger is quite stupid

The Normandy is the only ship with the IFF. Duh. Did you even play the game?

Did you? Reaper IFF didn't fool the Collector ships but it can the Reapers?
But lets say for a second you're correct and the Reapers see the Normandy as one of their own. One of their own that not only arrives at the head of the galactic armada assembled to fight the Reapers but also engages Reaper force as part of sword fleet. A supposed Reaper firing on Reaper froces and this raises any eyebrows?

EDI didn't modify the IFF until the events of ME3. 

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...
Well apparenty you're wrong since it wasn't shot down. 

So because bad writing says so, logic and common sense lose?

Yeah, no. It's ****.

[Meltemph]

Please quite the section from the codex where we are given details on the targeting systems for both the Reapers' main guns, and their supporting weapons? Please quote the section where we are given the capabilities and limitations of both in regards to tracking and engaging dismounted infantry.

Dont really care to debate the "why" of what harbinger did, since it is nothing short of speculation, however...

The most well-known subtype is the two-kilometer Sovereign-class capital Reaper. Their main weapon is a spinal mounted "magnetohydrodynamic" cannon with a yield of 132 to 450 kilotons of TNT

450kt, you don't really need to be accurate, the explosive radius of something like that would be the equivalent to a W88 warehead. As an example - A 22 kilo spread would be that of around 140 meters, so even if he is horrible inaccurate, if desperate to not let anyone through, could have technically wiped that whole area out in a matter of a few seconds. This isn't even counting the Oculus that are in its legs.

Regardless, I think the easiest way to deal with what we saw was, he chose to do nothing, you can try and postulate WHY, but anything anyone says is a guess.

Modifié par Meltemph, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:28 .

[Linkforlife]

Eterna5 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Well yeah, once the Normandy screams it is not a Reaper they know it's not a Reaper.They stop chasing you after you complete a mission because a considerable amount of time has passed and the reapers that were there have either moved on just forgot.

 You can see Harbinger directly staring at the Normandy, almost as though he is confused about what it actually is. 

Well there you go. By the time Priority Earth happens, the jig is up and the Reapers know that your IFF can no longer be trusted.

Or it could simply not matter since Harby is looking right at the Normandy, which most certainly doesn't look like a Reaper at all in any spectrum.

Because the reapers in the Sol system have caught the Normandy scanning? Time for a shocking revelation, the Reapers are spread out in the entire Galaxy! Not every reaper is around Earth!

As for your second part, you're assuming the Reapers see like organics. They could be totally blind and rely on scanning to see. 

How about the fact that the Normandy has been fighting the Reapers. Wouldn't they be suspicious why one of their own was considerably smaller than them and shooting at them?

[VLX11387]

Eterna5 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Because the reapers in the Sol system have caught the Normandy scanning? Time for a shocking revelation, the Reapers are spread out in the entire Galaxy! Not every reaper is around Earth!

Here's a shocker, they can communicate with each other. Actually, scratch that, they are all interconnected into a singular intelligence, so once one Reaper finds out that the particular IFF tag the Normandy is using is junk, THEY ALL KNOW! Even if we ignore the stupid revelation at the end, they can still communicate to each other; most likely through a QEC network.

Oh, look there, common sense and logic triumphing again. A shocker!

The Reapers care deeply about one organic ship scanning planets. They care so deeply that they shared this news with everyone. /sarcasm

Organic's way of thinking applied to Reapers. Doesn't work that way. It's still relevent data worth noting. No enemy would simply pass that up. 

[Eterna]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Well apparenty you're wrong since it wasn't shot down. 

So because bad writing says so, logic and common sense lose?

Yeah, no. It's ****.

But if it can be easily explained then it isn't ****. You just don't like it. 

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...
The Reapers care deeply about one organic ship scanning planets. They care so deeply that they shared this news with everyone. /sarcasm

It's not just one organic ship, it's an organic ship using a Reaper IFF.
You know what happens when you find out your IFF system isn't trustworthy? You change it and then tell everyone to look our for that IFF signal and crush it.

[Ticonderoga117]

Eterna5 wrote...

But if it can be easily explained then it isn't ****. You just don't like it. 

It's only easily explained if you eject common sense and instead use insane troll logic.

[archangel1996]

Eterna5 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch
00:40, or that Reaper is quite smart or harbinger is quite stupid

The Normandy is the only ship with the IFF. Duh. Did you even play the game?

Did you? Reaper IFF didn't fool the Collector ships but it can the Reapers?
But lets say for a second you're correct and the Reapers see the Normandy as one of their own. One of their own that not only arrives at the head of the galactic armada assembled to fight the Reapers but also engages Reaper force as part of sword fleet. A supposed Reaper firing on Reaper froces and this raises any eyebrows?

EDI didn't modify the IFF until the events of ME3. 

Oh, well and when did she say this ****?
You personal day dreaming? Guys, this guy is destroying your possibilities for excusing this monkey crap, take him out of here before he makes any mode damage

Modifié par archangel1996, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:27 .

[Eterna]

Linkforlife wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Well yeah, once the Normandy screams it is not a Reaper they know it's not a Reaper.They stop chasing you after you complete a mission because a considerable amount of time has passed and the reapers that were there have either moved on just forgot.

 You can see Harbinger directly staring at the Normandy, almost as though he is confused about what it actually is. 

Well there you go. By the time Priority Earth happens, the jig is up and the Reapers know that your IFF can no longer be trusted.

Or it could simply not matter since Harby is looking right at the Normandy, which most certainly doesn't look like a Reaper at all in any spectrum.

Because the reapers in the Sol system have caught the Normandy scanning? Time for a shocking revelation, the Reapers are spread out in the entire Galaxy! Not every reaper is around Earth!

As for your second part, you're assuming the Reapers see like organics. They could be totally blind and rely on scanning to see. 

How about the fact that the Normandy has been fighting the Reapers. Wouldn't they be suspicious why one of their own was considerably smaller than them and shooting at them?

The Normandy never actually fires at a reaper besides Sovereign in ME1and that was long before the IFF. 

[Eterna]

archangel1996 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

archangel1996 wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch
00:40, or that Reaper is quite smart or harbinger is quite stupid

The Normandy is the only ship with the IFF. Duh. Did you even play the game?

Did you? Reaper IFF didn't fool the Collector ships but it can the Reapers?
But lets say for a second you're correct and the Reapers see the Normandy as one of their own. One of their own that not only arrives at the head of the galactic armada assembled to fight the Reapers but also engages Reaper force as part of sword fleet. A supposed Reaper firing on Reaper froces and this raises any eyebrows?

EDI didn't modify the IFF until the events of ME3. 

Oh, well and when did she say this ****?
You eprsonal day dreaming? Guys, this guys is destoying your possibilities for excusing this ****, take him out of here before he makes any mode damage

Can you please stop talking?

[archangel1996]

Eterna5 wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Well yeah, once the Normandy screams it is not a Reaper they know it's not a Reaper.They stop chasing you after you complete a mission because a considerable amount of time has passed and the reapers that were there have either moved on just forgot.

 You can see Harbinger directly staring at the Normandy, almost as though he is confused about what it actually is. 

Well there you go. By the time Priority Earth happens, the jig is up and the Reapers know that your IFF can no longer be trusted.

Or it could simply not matter since Harby is looking right at the Normandy, which most certainly doesn't look like a Reaper at all in any spectrum.

Because the reapers in the Sol system have caught the Normandy scanning? Time for a shocking revelation, the Reapers are spread out in the entire Galaxy! Not every reaper is around Earth!

As for your second part, you're assuming the Reapers see like organics. They could be totally blind and rely on scanning to see. 

How about the fact that the Normandy has been fighting the Reapers. Wouldn't they be suspicious why one of their own was considerably smaller than them and shooting at them?

The Normandy never actually fires at a reaper besides Sovereign in ME1and that was long before the IFF. 

Yeah, for one hour the Nromandy didn't do **** in the space, in the middle of the war, you know the fleet vs the reapers? <_<

[Linkforlife]

Eterna5 wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
Well yeah, once the Normandy screams it is not a Reaper they know it's not a Reaper.They stop chasing you after you complete a mission because a considerable amount of time has passed and the reapers that were there have either moved on just forgot.

 You can see Harbinger directly staring at the Normandy, almost as though he is confused about what it actually is. 

Well there you go. By the time Priority Earth happens, the jig is up and the Reapers know that your IFF can no longer be trusted.

Or it could simply not matter since Harby is looking right at the Normandy, which most certainly doesn't look like a Reaper at all in any spectrum.

Because the reapers in the Sol system have caught the Normandy scanning? Time for a shocking revelation, the Reapers are spread out in the entire Galaxy! Not every reaper is around Earth!

As for your second part, you're assuming the Reapers see like organics. They could be totally blind and rely on scanning to see. 

How about the fact that the Normandy has been fighting the Reapers. Wouldn't they be suspicious why one of their own was considerably smaller than them and shooting at them?

The Normandy never actually fires at a reaper besides Sovereign in ME1and that was long before the IFF. 

And you know this how? Joker was up with the sword fleet, was he just chilling out waiting for Shepard to call the evac?

[Maxster_]

[quote]JasonShepard wrote...

[quote]Maxster_ wrote...

Magic beam is an asspull. It have no place in the lore. How can something magical be damaged by conventional weaponry?
[/quote]
So the Conduit in ME1... that also had no place in the law either, huh? In fact, if the Citadel beam is anything like the original conduit, there's a damn good reason why the Reapers wouldn't want it blown up. Remember Arrival? We might not lose the Solar System, but we could easily lose a substantial chunk of Earth.
[/quote]
lolwut?
Conduit from ME1 is a mass relay. Have you ever played ME1?
What an insane troll logic you have here.
So, because Conduit in ME1(Mass relay), is named "Conduit", and magic beam from ME3 is named "Conduit", they are suddenly the same.

[quote]
Bedevere: "So, logically..."
Peasant: "If... she... weighs... the same as a duck... she's made of wood."
Bedevere: "And therefore...?"
Another Peasant: "... a witch!"
[/quote]

What is the point to discuss anything with you after that?
[quote]
[quote]
Anyway, you have no idea what beam is, it serves only purpose - to connect Citadel to Earth, because of that nonsense "Take back Earth".
[/quote]
See above - I can make an educated guess that it's a miniature Mass Relay of some kind. Which would fit with it being Reaper tech and since relays are, so far, the only thing like that beam that we've seen in the MEU.
[/quote]
It is not an educated guess. It is plain nonsense.
[quote]
Further, judging by Shepard and Anderson's comments on board the Citadel, I think we can surmise that humans were being transported up to the Citadel to be processed into Reapers. You wouldn't build a Reaper on the ground, after all. So it does have an in-universe purpose.
[/quote]
No, it doesn't. In ME2, reapers were created from alive humans.
In ME3, they just teleport dead bodies into the Citadel for no reason.
Anyway, this makes no sense. Why there are Processors then?
So, we using some means to gather humans from around the world and then teleporting them from London to a Citadel, instead of using processors to deliver results to a Citadel?
There is no reason for that beam to exist, other than to make asspulled connection between nonsensical Earth's ground battle, and real center of MEU - Citadel.

[quote]
[quote]
Also, they turning beam on and off in cutscenes.
[/quote]
Really? When?
[/quote]
one
two
three
And especially, this followed by this.
[quote]
[quote]
And, making a several times contrived scenario, just to make sense out of pure nonsense.. Well, that does show quality(none) of their work.
Anyway, to assume that reapers can not turn their own beam off, is a pure asspull.
[/quote]
I'm forced into that assumption by the simple fact that they don't switch it off. Conveniently, this helps me explain another potential plot hole.
[/quote]
So, any story makes sense because it is written.
Riight.

[quote][quote]
[quote]
As a result, if (as I think we can also assume) blowing up the SR2 would make an explosion larger than that of the SR1 (which was itself fairly impressive), then they actually wouldn't want to do it.
[/quote]
So, they contrively didn't turn off the beam, then they contrively didn't annihilated entire assault, and now they contively just don't want to destroy Normandy, because reasons.
[/quote]
I'm being polite and respectful to you, it'd be nice for you to at least try to be so in return.
[/quote]
And that's all you got?
[quote]
[quote]
[quote]
That's one explanation, anyway. Other explanations include jamming from the beam and/or EDI, stealth systems, the fact that Harbinger already has a lot to deal with, and the possibility that Harbinger's weapons may not be up to piercing the Normandy's shields in this situation.
Remember that, because of it's size, a Reaper has to divert a considerable amount of power to maintaining a Mass Effect field to counteract a planet's gravity, thus Harby's weapon systems would not be at full strength. This may also explain how Shepard survives.[/quote]
So, they suddenly can't turn off the beam, suddenly can not damage it, for some unknown reason didn't want to destroy Normandy, and now, suddenly they are also weakened.
[/quote]
The weakening thing is mentioned in the codex. Here. I've supplied explanations for the rest. Arrogance can explain a lot.[/quote]
Exactly
[quote]The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to
land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This
transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's
kinetic barriers at only partial strength.
[/quote]
So, how reaper weapons became weapons? There is nothing in codex on that.
Anyway, your "explanation" which contradicts ME lore, just makes Harbringer even more retarded.

Modifié par Maxster_, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:30 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Eterna5 wrote...
EDI didn't modify the IFF until the events of ME3. 

And to my second line of questioning?

[archangel1996]

Eterna5 wrote...

Can you please stop talking?

Can you? For your buddies i mean, they aren't going to be happy when they see what you did
And it is writing BTW

Modifié par archangel1996, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:31 .

[Eterna]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
EDI didn't modify the IFF until the events of ME3. 

And to my second line of questioning?

The Normandy may not have been useing the IFF to hide itself. It can probably be turned off and on at will much like its stealth system. 

In the chaos of the battle it would be easy to switch it on for the evac, it is not like the Reapers are really paying attention to what every ship is doing. 

[archangel1996]

Eterna5 wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...
EDI didn't modify the IFF until the events of ME3. 

And to my second line of questioning?

The Normandy may not have been useing the IFF to hide itself. It can probably be turned off and on at will much like its stealth system. 

In the chaos of the battle it would be easy to switch it on for the evac, it is not like the Reapers are really paying attention to what every ship is doing. 

Maybe you are right, their boss is a kid after all

[Maxster_]

Linkforlife wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

BeefheartSpud wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Reapers see Via scanner and sensory technology. They cannot see like Organics do. Early in the game EDi tells you she used the Reaper IFF to disguise the Normandy as a Reaper.

Therefore Harbinger can't see the Normandy, that is why it is able to fly by the Reapers during the space battles as well.

LOL. Oh yeah. THAT theory.

It's not a theory, EDi says it during the game. 

If that is the case, how come Reapers chase the Normandy if you output too many scans while looking for artifacts? Shouldn't they figure it for one of their own and go about their business?

And how exactly reapers track Normandy SR-2 in FTL transit?
This reaper-chase minigame is lore-butchering nonsense.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Eterna5 wrote...
The Normandy may not have been useing the IFF to hide itself. It can probably be turned off and on at will much like its stealth system. 

In the chaos of the battle it would be easy to switch it on for the evac, it is not like the Reapers are really paying attention to what every ship is doing. 

Two problems with that assertion. First an enemy ship that suddenly turns into a Reaper is again likely to raise some eyebrows and draw attention to itself.

Second if the Reapers are as easily distracted and dimissive of enemy ship movements as you suggest, why was this technology not used to it's fullest benfit and used to support hammer during the assualt on the conduit, or say to appraoch the conduit to begin with? Why are we using it to evacuate random troops during a battle which has it has been stated multiple times there is no retreat from?

[Linkforlife]

Maxster_ wrote...

Linkforlife wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

BeefheartSpud wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

Reapers see Via scanner and sensory technology. They cannot see like Organics do. Early in the game EDi tells you she used the Reaper IFF to disguise the Normandy as a Reaper.

Therefore Harbinger can't see the Normandy, that is why it is able to fly by the Reapers during the space battles as well.

LOL. Oh yeah. THAT theory.

It's not a theory, EDi says it during the game. 

If that is the case, how come Reapers chase the Normandy if you output too many scans while looking for artifacts? Shouldn't they figure it for one of their own and go about their business?

And how exactly reapers track Normandy SR-2 in FTL transit?
This reaper-chase minigame is lore-butchering nonsense.

In FTL, maybe they can't really track it, but that stll leaves the part in the system itself. After all Adams says that the Normandy should be able to drop out of FTL without triggering every sensor in range, although, I am not sure if going into FTL does anything though.
I do agree with you with your point on the Reaper chase minigame.

[d-boy15]

It just added to sugarcoat the ending... and I understand it from developer point of view,
they can't change the scene, everyone need to be there for memorial scene and normandy
is needed to land at the jungle planet. so, I don't think they had much choice

if we use military point of view, shepard wouldn't even called for an evac in the middle of slaughter
ground like that. the only thing that make sense is leave them with some medic behind cover and
continued pushing ahead.

and don't let me start about IFF, that thing not even work with small laser balls (forget their name)

Modifié par d-boy15, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:59 .

[JasonShepard]

Maxster_ wrote...

Bedevere: "So, logically..."
Peasant: "If... she... weighs... the same as a duck... she's made of wood."
Bedevere: "And therefore...?"
Another Peasant: "... a witch!"

It doesn't look like a mass relay, I'll give you that. It does, however act like a mass relay. Stuff entering at point A to emerge at point B. In fact, I'd say that a relay is the only way to explain what it can do within known ME tech.

No, it doesn't. In ME2, reapers were created from alive humans.
In ME3, they just teleport dead bodies into the Citadel for no reason.

The beam is used for living and dead humans. Since they seem to need the genetics, it shouldn't matter which - although I'd guess the living ones are somehow used to construct the Reaper's consciousness.

So, we using some means to gather humans from around the world and then teleporting them from London to a Citadel, instead of using processors to deliver results to a Citadel?

There could be beams in other countries. London is just the only one we know about.

one
two
three
And especially, this followed by this.

I... oh no. Really?
Notice something about all those shots where you can't see the beam? Something... consistent about them? A location perhaps? They're all in space. (With the exception of your third one, where there's just a Destroyer in the way. You can even see it active behind.)

In case you didn't notice, you never see the beam travelling through space. Sure, you see it go up to the clouds, but never any further. The only time you see the beam going through space is on the EC slides, and they are stylised enough as it is. Heck, there's more than one scene where the Citadel is in the wrong orientation for there to be a straight line between it and London - especially since that would in no way be a stable orbit... This actually fits with the idea that the beam is actually a relay, making that lightshow to the clouds... just a lightshow.

The Reapers' energy sources are not infinite. For example, to
land on a planet, a Reaper must substantially reduce its mass. This
transfer of power to its mass effect generators leaves the Reaper's
kinetic barriers at only partial strength.

So, how reaper weapons became weapons? There is nothing in codex on that.
Anyway, your "explanation" which contradicts ME lore, just makes Harbringer even more retarded.

I'm assuming you made a typo there, and meant "reaper shields become weapons"...

And yes, that's exactly what I meant. Any battleship, especially Reapers, should be able to prioritise their systems. Harbinger doesn't need full power weapons to obliterate people, so he'd prioritise shields instead. They probably still aren't at full strength compared to space, but I'd guess the shields would be strong enough to... oh, I don't know, survive the Normandy's Thanix cannon? Meaning the SR2 definitely isn't a threat. Probably strong enough to survive orbital bombardment from any opportunistic allied dreadnoughts up there too, since I doubt Harby lasted this long by taking risks (regarding himself here, not general strategy).

Anyway, for the record - I like the evac scene. I find it quite touching as a final farewell, so I'm willing to do the mental footwork to fit it into known law and plotlines. You, on the other hand, seem to be looking for any reason to tear ME3 down. For which I pity you.

I'm being polite and respectful to you, it'd be nice for you to at least try to be so in return.

And that's all you got? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Not quite. Goodbye.

Modifié par JasonShepard, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:57 .

[Linkforlife]

d-boy15 wrote...

It just added to sugarcoat the ending... and from understand it from developer point of view,
they can't change the scene, everyone need to be there for memorial scene and normandy
is needed to land at the jungle planet. so, I don't think they had much choice

if we use military point of view, shepard wouldn't even called for an evac in the middle of slaughter
ground like that. the only thing that make sense is leave them with some medic behind cover and
continued pushing ahead.

and don't let me start about IFF, that thing not even work with small laser balls (forget their name)

The Oculus?

[d-boy15]

Linkforlife wrote...
The Oculus?

yeah, thank!