197 réponses à ce sujet

[Gebert]

Skill trees instead of skill lines.
Cross-class combos.
Crafting.

And that's about it, I think. Though none of these things were executed perfectly in DA2 (i.e. the far too many requirements for some of the skills), I believe these are about the only improvements the game brought.

Modifié par Gebert, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:22 .

[Renmiri1]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lots.

Nearly all of it.

Same here! 

Specifically

Crafting and Runes were streamlined too much though... either remove it alltoghether or make it more fun. 

I want to be able to equip companions besides just changing rings, necks and belts.

Mage stafff moves- please more! I felt so badass!! Much betther than shaking a stick. Please add Arcane mage again

Warrior was ok but would love Fenris Spirit Warrior skills

I'm ok with combat changing completely though. I'm not too keen on turn based / ATB style combat like DAO and DA2.

Story, rivalry / friendship, romances were great

More dungeon maps

More realistic waves, no parachuting enemies

time skip is fun

More kunari and Arishok

[Killer3000ad]

I want nothing from DA2 in DA:I save the more diverse skill trees which I saw as the only improvement DA2 had. Everything else DA2 had was flat out a giant step back.
-No party outfitting, Hawke gets saddled with armor/robes he/she can't use but can't equip on party members
-Elf and darkspawn redesign was absolutely terrible! Bring back DA:O's design
-The combat in DA2 was deplorable and clearly aimed at the hack-and-slash casual crowd who seem to enjoy fighting endless waves of enemies spawning out of thin air or from the bloody ceiling (fake guardsmen house, i am looking at you)
-Limited party member interaction, only able to talk them when there was some development. I absolutely missed the party camp in DAO. I did multiple playthroughs of DA:O and i never grew bored of talking to my party members and getting to know them. What DA2 did was a huge mistake with regards to this and I'd prefer to see something similiar to DAO in DA:I
-Retarded bossfights which saw Hawke chipping away at huge HP bars.
-Broken enemy rogues and their uninterruptible backflipping in your face and stealthing garbage.
-Yes... the reused maps need to go.

TLDR; The less that DA:I is like DA2 the better.

Modifié par Killer3000ad, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:44 .

[Master Shiori]

Plaintiff wrote...


As much as you may not want to believe it, of the two Dragon Age games, 2 is my preferred title for a few different reasons. I would like DA:Inquisition to be closer to 2 than it is to Origins.

But DA2 didn't change much from Origins. The perceived "massive changes" are, for the most part, purely superficial, affecting gameplay hardly at all.

My thoughts exactly.

Here's a list of features from DA2 I'd love to see return:

1) voiced protagonist and dialogue wheel (already confirmed to be in)

2) friendship/rivalry system or something similar

3) faster combat and cross class combos

4) party banter that my character can join in

5) dialogue choices that result in the protagonist performing an action; like Hawke throwing a dagger at the slaver leader

6) Lack of gender restrictions for romances

[Fredward]

Master Shiori wrote...

6) Lack of gender restrictions for romances

Oh yeah I forgot this one, playersexual ftw.

[Yrkoon]

naughty99 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

I vastly prefer the crafting system in DA2, as I really hate micro-managing my inventory and would really rather just pay for the end product. Also, they opened up poisons and bombs to classes other than rogues, which was nice.

That was one of the worst parts of the game for me. It wasn't even crafting, just like a shop where you buy stuff.

Took the words out of my mouth.


It cracks me up when people say that DA2 had a crafting system.  It did NOT.    You're not "crafting" when you order stuff from a merchant.  You're just  "shopping".

Crafting is when you actually *make* stuff.  To call the lazy, mindless, dumbed down garbage that DA2 gave us "crafting" is silly.     It's  like  calling up  Pizza Hut and ordering a pizza delivered to your door, and then saying that you just got done "cooking".

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:27 .

[Plaintiff]

Yrkoon wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

I vastly prefer the crafting system in DA2, as I really hate micro-managing my inventory and would really rather just pay for the end product. Also, they opened up poisons and bombs to classes other than rogues, which was nice.

That was one of the worst parts of the game for me. It wasn't even crafting, just like a shop where you buy stuff.

Took the words out of my mouth.


It cracks me up when people say that DA2 had a crafting system.  It did NOT.    You're not "crafting" when you order stuff from a merchant.  That'You're just  *shopping".

Crafting is when you actually *make* stuff.  To call the lazy, mindless, dumbed down garbage that DA2 gave us "crafting" is absurd, and dishonest.     It's  like  calling up  Pizza Hut and ordering a pizza delivered to your door, and then saying that you just got done "cooking".

In pretty much every game where it exists, crafting is no different from shopping in terms of mechanics. You're just using a different currency.

[Rawgrim]

Plaintiff wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

I vastly prefer the crafting system in DA2, as I really hate micro-managing my inventory and would really rather just pay for the end product. Also, they opened up poisons and bombs to classes other than rogues, which was nice.

That was one of the worst parts of the game for me. It wasn't even crafting, just like a shop where you buy stuff.

Took the words out of my mouth.


It cracks me up when people say that DA2 had a crafting system.  It did NOT.    You're not "crafting" when you order stuff from a merchant.  That'You're just  *shopping".

Crafting is when you actually *make* stuff.  To call the lazy, mindless, dumbed down garbage that DA2 gave us "crafting" is absurd, and dishonest.     It's  like  calling up  Pizza Hut and ordering a pizza delivered to your door, and then saying that you just got done "cooking".

In pretty much every game where it exists, crafting is no different from shopping in terms of mechanics. You're just using a different currency.

Crafting, in most games, requires you to invest points ad feats\\perks into the crafting skill. So no, its not the same as pending money on an item. Those skills\\perks also come at a cost of other skills\\perks you could have gotten instead.

[Yrkoon]

Plaintiff wrote...
In pretty much every game where it exists, crafting is no different from shopping in terms of mechanics. You're just using a different currency.

No..  Ingredients  are not currency.  Money is currency.  And a good crafting system should not require a middle man (merchant,  order catalogue), or money.  A penniless crafter should be able to:

1) go out and find raw materials
2) put them together to create an item

As it stands, there are quite a few games out there that do crafting mechanics well  (Skyrim.  And Neverwinter Nights 2 come immediately to mind), but neither of the DA games  have suceeded in it at all.  it's almost a compliment to DA2 that  it  at least did away with even the illusion  of crafting, as opposed to what DA:O did, which was try, and fail miserably.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:40 .

[Mantaal]

thats1evildude wrote...

I vastly prefer the crafting system in DA2, as I really hate micro-managing my inventory and would really rather just pay for the end product. Also, they opened up poisons and bombs to classes other than rogues, which was nice.

I also really hope that they keep the turn-off switch for sustained abilities for when you're not in battle. It was really tedious in DAO having to constantly switch off sustained abilities for dialogue because I didn't want to have serious conversations while covered in purple fog or little red arrows.

I also hope they keep the "show helmets" toggle. I really hated some of the helmets in both games, but when I could turn them invisible in DA2 they didn't bother me.

I'd like to keep cross-class combos and the Friendship-Rivalry system, though that could require some fine-tuning.

I think the warrior class was vastly improved over DAO and hope they keep some of their better abilities. Likewise, I think the direction they're going with archers is good.

I didn't have any problems with the dialogue system, so they can keep that.

I'm ambivalent to the idea of making Dog a ranger summon. Both systems had their pluses.

They should keep the new appearance of the qunari. On the whole, I generally liked the visual aesthetic in DA2 more than the one in DAO but this will probably shift.

And DA3 should have pet ghasts.

Thats some really good points! I totally forgot Cross class Combos. They are really nice. 

The Frendship Rivaly system.. well it should be hidden i think. I realized i always picked the answers so my Group mates like me.. even if i want to say something else. 

And i have to agree with the Qunari. They look better. Once you get used to it

Well for the Crafting System i have to disagree. But i dont care much since its no real Crafting in both games. I would like to have something like in Vanguard Saga of Heroes.. where you really craft something. But i dont see this makes it in any game soon because Peoples think its to complicated and to time consuming. 
In the most Games Crafting is just a "Combine A with B and get C" and thats it. I dont like it but i can understand why it is that way. 

If someone is interested and want to spend the time.. here is a Video of (in my opinion) good Crafting:
www.youtube.com/watch

Modifié par Mantaal, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:46 .

[Rawgrim]

Yrkoon wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
In pretty much every game where it exists, crafting is no different from shopping in terms of mechanics. You're just using a different currency.

No..  Ingredients  are not currency.  Money is currency.  And a good crafting system should not require a middle man (merchant,  order catalogue), or money.  A penniless crafter should be able to:

1) go out and find raw materials
2) put them together to create an item

As it stands, there are quite a few games out there that do crafting mechanics well  (Skyrim.  And Neverwinter Nights 2 come immediately to mind), but neither of the DA games  have suceeded in it at all.  it's almost a compliment to DA2 that  it  at least did away with even the illusion  of crafting, as opposed to what DA:O did, which was try, and fail miserably.

Kotor 1-2 also had crafting to some extent. One of the Neverwinter Nights 1 expansions also had it. Morrowind, The Witcher 1-2 (alchemy at least), Ultima 7 had it. Could even bake bread in that one. Both Drakensang games deffinatly had it. Worked very well too. I think Plaintiff needs to play more games

[thats1evildude]

Yrkoon wrote...

It cracks me up when people say that DA2 had a crafting system.  It did NOT.    You're not "crafting" when you order stuff from a merchant.  You're just  "shopping".

You're right: DA2 did not have a crafting system.

And I prefer it that way. I find crafting in general to be very tedious at best and irritating at worst. Runecrafting in Awakening was especially horrible in this regards.

Whatever. Just give me the system they had in DA2. I want to buy the end product, not have to make it myself.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:47 .

[Plaintiff]

Yrkoon wrote...
No..  Ingredients  are not currency.  Money is currency.

Anything can be currency as long as it exists in a sufficient amount. Money didn't magically pop into existence when bartering systems developed.

And a good crafting system should not require a middle man (merchant,  order catalogue), or money.

I don't see why.

A penniless crafter should be able to:

1) go out and find raw materials

This is the same way the player finds money.

2) put them together to create an item

In other words, you trade in some items and get a new one in exchange.

As it stands, there are quite a few games out there that do crafting mechanics well  (Skyrim.  And Neverwinter Nights 2 come immediately to mind), but neither of the DA games  have suceeded in it at all.  it's almost a compliment to DA2 that  it  at least did away with even the illusion  of crafting, as opposed to what DA:O did, which was try, and fail miserably.

The quality of the crafting system doesn't change the fact that it's mechanically identical to regular shopping.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:08 .

[Yrkoon]

Plaintiff wrote...

2) put them together to create an item

In other words, you trade in some items and get a new one in exchange.

No, you're not, and that's the huge difference.  You're doing everything yourself, without the assistance of a  "trader".  If you're giving raw materials to someone else and then they give you a finished item  (the way  Baldurs gate 2 did it, btw), then  it's him  doing the crafting, not you.  You're using  zero crafting skills yourself

As it stands, there are quite a few games out there that do crafting mechanics well  (Skyrim.  And Neverwinter Nights 2 come immediately to mind), but neither of the DA games  have suceeded in it at all.  it's almost a compliment to DA2 that  it  at least did away with even the illusion  of crafting, as opposed to what DA:O did, which was try, and fail miserably.

The quality of the crafting system doesn't change the fact that it's mechanically identical to regular shopping.

Except that it's not mechanically  identical to shopping any more than   going out and killing people and taking their stuff is mechanically identical to  shopping.  You're reaching.  Reaching for no reason.  There are very good arguments to be made for scrapping a crafting system in favor of  an "I'll make stuff for you instead" system  like what DA2 had.  But to call it a crafting system is not one of those arguments.   Because DA2 didn't have crafting.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:21 .

[freche]

Rawgrim wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

I vastly prefer the crafting system in DA2, as I really hate micro-managing my inventory and would really rather just pay for the end product. Also, they opened up poisons and bombs to classes other than rogues, which was nice.

That was one of the worst parts of the game for me. It wasn't even crafting, just like a shop where you buy stuff.

Took the words out of my mouth.


It cracks me up when people say that DA2 had a crafting system.  It did NOT.    You're not "crafting" when you order stuff from a merchant.  That'You're just  *shopping".

Crafting is when you actually *make* stuff.  To call the lazy, mindless, dumbed down garbage that DA2 gave us "crafting" is absurd, and dishonest.     It's  like  calling up  Pizza Hut and ordering a pizza delivered to your door, and then saying that you just got done "cooking".

In pretty much every game where it exists, crafting is no different from shopping in terms of mechanics. You're just using a different currency.

Crafting, in most games, requires you to invest points ad featsperks into the crafting skill. So no, its not the same as pending money on an item. Those skillsperks also come at a cost of other skillsperks you could have gotten instead.

Crafting in most games is imersion breaking imo, a hero might have time to learn one trade that isn't too timeconsuming.
I feel it much more realistic that the hero is placing orders from people who know their trade.
You find the materials and someone creates the stuff for you.

I hope they keep most of the stuff from DA2, and tune it for an even better gameplay experience.

Yrkoon wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

2) put them together to create an item

In other words, you trade in some items and get a new one in exchange.

No, you're not, and that's the huge difference.  You're doing everything yourself, without the assistance of a middle man.  If you're giving raw materials to someone else and then they give you a finished item  (the way  Baldurs gate 2 did it, btw), then  it's him  doing the crafting, not you.

But it's still crafting.

Modifié par freche, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:15 .

[Yrkoon]

freche wrote...

No, you're not, and that's the huge difference.  You're doing everything yourself, without the assistance of a middle man.  If you're giving raw materials to someone else and then they give you a finished item  (the way  Baldurs gate 2 did it, btw), then  it's him  doing the crafting, not you.

But it's still crafting.

Not according to Bioware.  They *admit* that BG2 didn't have a crafting system. 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 17 janvier 2013 - 12:17 .

[Tinu]

Plaintiff wrote...

Lots.

Nearly all of it.

[AlexJK]

IMO the best crafting systems require (1) effort; and (2) choice.

Effort, to obtain the recipes and ingredients required to create an item or upgrade that is above and beyond what you can easily buy in a shop.

Choice, in deciding what to make when resources are limited and ingredients overlap across recipes.

Neither DAO nor DA2 had either of these. In DAO you could simply buy everything you actually needed for crafting, cheaply and in huge quantities. In DA2 you "found" ingredients in the world to unlock new items in shops, which you could buy in effectively unlimited quantities.

The best example of "crafting" that I can remember in DAO/DA2 was Wade's Drakescale/Dragonscale armour in DAO. Effort to obtain the ingredients, choice in deciding what to make.

I like the idea of crafting. I don't like the idea of having to skill my PC in it though. Crafting is something I'm quite happy for a companion (or workshop) to do, as long as effort and choice are both involved.

[thebigbad1013]

Quite a bit of it, actually. I'm in the fortunate position of having enjoyed both Origins and DA2 AND the concerns I did have about DA2 have all pretty much been addressed already in what little information we have about DA3 (reuse of areas, for one).

[Chaos Lord Malek]

There is no feature coming back from DA:O. Where did you read this?

Gaider already posted, that everything will be same as in Dragon Age 2, except a few features which will be changed or mixed with those that were in DA:O(most likely no narriative this time, since Varric is occupied, and more wandering around land like in BG1). There is no feature "just like in DA:O".

[Zeta42]

I want Hawke and his companions to make an appearance. That's all.

[Trolldrool]

Difficult to say. DA2 is mostly a bad game to me as a Dragon Age game.

Archery maybe. I hated most of the combat animations, with two-handed weapons looking like they weigh nothing at all, but archery at least felt like something of an improvement to Origins.

[Cimeas]

EVERYTHING

Except the removal of companion gear, and obviously the copy-pasted weapons.

[smallwhippet]

thats1evildude wrote...

I vastly prefer the crafting system in DA2, as I really hate micro-managing my inventory and would really rather just pay for the end product. Also, they opened up poisons and bombs to classes other than rogues, which was nice.

I also really hope that they keep the turn-off switch for sustained abilities for when you're not in battle. It was really tedious in DAO having to constantly switch off sustained abilities for dialogue because I didn't want to have serious conversations while covered in purple fog or little red arrows.

I also hope they keep the "show helmets" toggle. I really hated some of the helmets in both games, but when I could turn them invisible in DA2 they didn't bother me.

I'd like to keep cross-class combos and the Friendship-Rivalry system, though that could require some fine-tuning.

I think the warrior class was vastly improved over DAO and hope they keep some of their better abilities. Likewise, I think the direction they're going with archers is good.

I didn't have any problems with the dialogue system, so they can keep that.

I'm ambivalent to the idea of making Dog a ranger summon. Both systems had their pluses.

They should keep the new appearance of the qunari. On the whole, I generally liked the visual aesthetic in DA2 more than the one in DAO but this will probably shift.

And DA3 should have pet ghasts.

All of this except the ghasts:P

Plus: Mirror of Transformation!

[Plaintiff]

Yrkoon wrote...
No, you're not, and that's the huge difference.  You're doing everything yourself, without the assistance of a  "trader". If you're giving raw materials to someone else and then they give you a finished item  (the way  Baldurs gate 2 did it, btw), then  it's him  doing the crafting, not you.  You're using  zero crafting skills yourself.

How does the presence or absence of a shopkeep dictate the validity of the crafting system?

If I go to a vending machine, am I crafting a candy bar?

Except that it's not mechanically  identical to shopping any more than   going out and killing people and taking their stuff is mechanically identical to  shopping.

That's a stupid and utterly false comparison. In the crafting systems you deem to be superior, the process is identical to shopping. You select an item from a menu, and as long as you can "afford" it (ie, you have enough of the required components), the item is placed in your inventory. Which is exactly how stores work in every game that has ever existed ever.

Neither system is like any battle mechanic I've ever heard of.

You're reaching.  Reaching for no reason.  There are very good arguments to be made for scrapping a crafting system in favor of  an "I'll make stuff for you instead" system  like what DA2 had.  But to call it a crafting system is not one of those arguments.   Because DA2 didn't have crafting.

No, you're the one who's reaching for a reason to despise the crafting system. You hate it for being a "store", but the crafting systems you praise work in the exact same way. There is one, extremely superficial difference between the basic mechanics of Skyrim's crafting and the basic mechanics of DA2's crafting, and that difference is that Skyrim's requires more running around.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 17 janvier 2013 - 02:19 .