197 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

Paying someone to make stuff for you isn`t the same as crafting.

[hoorayforicecream]

Yrkoon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

No, you're just including "crafting services" into the definition of a crafting system.

Rule of thumb.  If you can look at a finished, crafted item and say:  "I made that!".  Then yes, the game has a crafting system and you engaged in that system.

The game itself says "You made that!" even though your character never engaged in it.

No it doesn't.  it just says "item crafted"  You can't rename the item.  There's no uniqueness or anything suggesting that *you* had  any hand in  the process whatsoever.

Wrong.

[Yrkoon]

That's great. But last I checked, we were discussing DA2. But thanks for the effort, we kinda DID need a shameless subject change. lol

[Sith Grey Warden]

I liked that massive armor wasn't as ridiculously oversized. I liked the new look of the Qunari... errm, I can't think of anything else at the moment.

[hoorayforicecream]

Yrkoon wrote...

That's great. But last I checked, we were discussing DA2. But thanks for the effort, we kinda DID need a shameless subject change. lol

I was talking about SWTOR and how it breaks your definition of crafting system. But keep on moving those goalposts if it makes you feel better.

[Yrkoon]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

That's great. But last I checked, we were discussing DA2. But thanks for the effort, we kinda DID need a shameless subject change. lol

I was talking about SWTOR 

Indeed. 

 Shameless Subject changes for the win.  Everyone else in this thread was talking  about DA2

and how it breaks your definition of crafting system.

It does no such thing. Since I  neither claimed nor denied that SWTOR has a crafting system.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 18 janvier 2013 - 12:40 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Yrkoon wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

That's great. But last I checked, we were discussing DA2. But thanks for the effort, we kinda DID need a shameless subject change. lol

I was talking about SWTOR 

Indeed. 

 Shameless Subject changes for the win.  Everyone else in this thread was talking  about DA2

Selectively applying definitions means never having to admit you're wrong.

[Sylvius the Mad]

BeatoSama wrote...

Except that it requires more planning since you can't just stop in the middle of a battle to craft 100 new potions as you could in DAO. It was pretty damn ridiculous.

That was a pausing issue more than anything.  I think accessing your inventory should unpause the game.

I'm talking about how, if you wanted to make potions, you had to have the materials.  In DA2, you didn't, so you could always manufacture potions when you wanted to.  In DAO, you could manufacture potions wherever you wanted to, but not whenever you wanted to.

[Yrkoon]

 

Rawgrim wrote...

Paying someone to make stuff for you isn`t the same as crafting.

Indeed.  One day,  they will make an  RPG  where  you  and your party won't actually be able to engage in combat.  Instead you'll simply be able to watch other people in the game fighting.  Then we'll have people here claiming that this game has a combat system.  lol 

Modifié par Yrkoon, 18 janvier 2013 - 12:46 .

[Rawgrim]

Yrkoon wrote...

 

Rawgrim wrote...

Paying someone to make stuff for you isn`t the same as crafting.

Indeed.  One day,  they will make an  RPG  where  you  and your party won't actually be able to engage in combat.  Instead you'll simply be able to watch other people in the game fighting.  Then we'll have people here claiming that this game has a combat system.  lol 

I am still waiting for the "win combat" button to arrive.

[hoorayforicecream]

Yrkoon wrote...

and how it breaks your definition of crafting system.

It does no such thing. Since I  neither claimed nor denied that SWTOR has a crafting system.

Yrkoon wrote...

Never played SWTOR, but if you control the companions and the system has a step-by-step type mechanic that you have to follow when controlling the companions, then yes its an actual crafting system.  If not, then it isn't.

It doesn't. By this definition it isn't.

Yrkoon wrote...

Rule of thumb.  If you can look at a finished, crafted item and say:  "I made that!".  Then yes, the game has a crafting system and you engaged in that system.

By this definition, it is.



So you didn't explicitly say if SWTOR has a crafting system or not. But by your definitions, it both has and hasn't one at the same time. Ergo, your definition is wrong because your definition cannot be consistent when it comes to SWTOR, and as such cannot be applied with any reliability to DA2.

But hey, tuck that tail and change the subject again. It worked so well for you last time.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 18 janvier 2013 - 12:56 .

[Anomaly-]

thats1evildude wrote...
I vastly prefer the crafting system in DA2, as I really hate micro-managing my inventory and would really rather just pay for the end product.

If you'd rather just pay for the end product, I'm sure vendors who sell most of those things could be provided, without sacrificing an actual crafting system those like me would enjoy.

Also, they opened up poisons and bombs to classes other than rogues, which was nice.

They were never restricted to rogues in DA:O.

Plaintiff wrote...
No, you're the one who's reaching for a reason to despise the crafting system. You hate it for being a "store", but the crafting systems you praise work in the exact same way. There is one, extremely superficial difference between the basic mechanics of Skyrim's crafting and the basic mechanics of DA2's crafting, and that difference is that Skyrim's requires more running around.

No, he's right; you're definitely reaching. The differences really should be obvious. Firstly, a "real" crafting system requires you to pursue ingredients. This requires that you make a concerted effort to seek out specific ingredients based on what you are trying to craft, as well as manage those ingredients and decide what to keep with you for future needs. You don't have enough room to keep everything you find. This provides a meaningful choice, as well as a tangible gameplay difference. This is not functionally equivalent to gold, because gold is just gold, regardless of where you got it or what you're buying with it, and is unlimited in capacity. The second big difference is, as has been stated, the requirement to invest in a crafting skill. This is essential, because it helps to identify a character's skillset, while offering another important meaningful choice.

Those are the primary reasons why crafting is not the same as just purchasing items from a shop. There are other reasons, as well, such as crafting being a trade that can be used to make you money. In DA2's case, there really was no functional difference. That's why it really wasn't crafting.

Maria Caliban wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
I am of a similar opinion. The crafting system in DA2 is the best in any BioWare game to date. It could only be enhanced by adding in crafting quests for special/unique items.

What crafting system??

Let me Google that for you.

Feel free to read the top link. Or, you know, just continue with your pathetic non-argument. Ten bucks says it's the latter.

So a google search is an argument? Common sense would tell you that people refer to it as "crafting", because that's what the game claims it to be. That way people can distinguish it from shopping and ensure they're talking about the same thing, even though there isn't any actual difference in gameplay or mechanics.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 18 janvier 2013 - 01:39 .

[Tpiom]

I think they really nailed the talent trees in Dragon Age II and the class combos.

The crafting stuff was worse... I liked it better in DA:O (flaws yes!, but better)

The main storyline (or lack thereof) they created was more original, it was no longer the "Dark army (Sith, Darkspawn, reapers) are going to take over the world/galaxy and you must stop their leader (Dragon/Malak)" Now don't get any impressions that I actually liked the story in Dragon Age as you were thrown into the situations with no real thread connecting them. Although, to give them credit they actually addressed that problem, sort of, in Awakening.

What more? I... think that's it.

Modifié par Tpiom, 18 janvier 2013 - 01:04 .

[Yrkoon]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

and how it breaks your definition of crafting system.

It does no such thing. Since I  neither claimed nor denied that SWTOR has a crafting system.

Yrkoon wrote...

Never played SWTOR, but if you control the companions and the system has a step-by-step type mechanic that you have to follow when controlling the companions, then yes its an actual crafting system.  If not, then it isn't.

It doesn't. By this definition it isn't.

Yrkoon wrote...

Rule of thumb.  If you can look at a finished, crafted item and say:  "I made that!".  Then yes, the game has a crafting system and you engaged in that system.

By this definition, it is.



So you didn't explicitly say if SWTOR has a crafting system or not. But by your definitions, it both has and hasn't one at the same time. Ergo, your definition is wrong because your definition cannot be consistent when it comes to SWTOR, and as such cannot be applied with any reliability to DA2.

But hey, tuck that tail and change the subject again. It worked so well for you last time.

I have no idea what you're babbling about here.

AGAIN, I have never claimed or denied that SWTOR has a crafting system.  So whatever silly "gotcha" you're trying to  impose on this discussion, is not holding any water.

And no, I'm not going to make a judgement call on SWTOR's mechanics (crafting or otherwise), since I have not played the game.   It's irrelevant to this discussion anyway.   We're not discussing whether or not SWTOR has a crafting system.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 18 janvier 2013 - 01:13 .

[tishyw]

Nothing except the ability to modify your PC's appears in the mirror in the Emporium.

[Hatchetman77]

I liked the ability to give your Hawke different personalities based on your ovrall dialouge choices. I just wish it would be expanded upon in DA:I.

[Renmiri1]

I think we should skip the discussion of what is crafting or isn't to another thread, and get back to the DA2 things we want back

[hoorayforicecream]

Yrkoon wrote...

I have no idea what you're babbling about here.

AGAIN, I have never claimed or denied that SWTOR has a crafting system.  So whatever silly "gotcha" you're trying to  impose on this discussion, is not holding any water.

And no, I'm not going to make a judgement call on SWTOR's mechanics (crafting or otherwise), since I have not played the game.   It's irrelevant to this discussion anyway.   We're not discussing whether or not SWTOR has a crafting system.

We were discussing your definition of a crafting system. A definition needs to be, above all things, consistent. If it is not consistent, it cannot be applied to different subjects.

Since the definition of crafting system you have provided cannot consistently determine whether SWTOR has a crafting system, your definition is not consistent and therefore cannot be applied to other games either.

[Yrkoon]

One single person's description of SWTOR's "crafting system" is not really enough to even have such a discussion. Stop boring us now with your red herrings.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 18 janvier 2013 - 01:28 .

[Xewaka]

Rawgrim wrote...
I am still waiting for the "win combat" button to arrive.

Open console command line.
Type killallhostiles.
There you go.

[Steppenwolf]

The crafting system in DA2 was a lot better, so keep that. The ability trees were a step in the right direction from Origins' problematic system, so keep that.
Aside from those 2 features... nothing I guess. I preferred just about everything else in Origins. DA2 did too many things half-assed to borrow much. Companion interaction was limited, customization was limited, items were made more generic, sidequests were mostly just fetch quests, etc. DA2 did a few things right, not but much.

[The Hierophant]

PurebredCorn wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Stop boring us now with your red herrings.

Your're not boring me. She on the other hand...

Agreed