112 réponses à ce sujet

[daft inquisitor]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Honestly, the "spiritual successor to BG" means nothing to me, having never played it, so that isn't very important to me in terms of DA.

Yeah, but that's part of the problem. The game was originally touted to players of Baldur's Gate in a way that made it seem like the series was going to have the same essence and feel.

To an extent, they succeeded with the first game. But with the second, they dropped a lot of the things that made the first game appeal to that crowd. 

The reason it's such an issue is because that was one of the major marketing platforms for DA:O from when it was first announced. The series got a major platform and following because it marketed itself in such a way to the crowd that played and loved Baldur's Gate.

The fact that people can say, "Yeah, that's not why I got into the series" shouldn't be an indication that they can drop that pretense altogether, beecause the (I feel safe in saying this) majority of Dragon Age players are people who also played Baldur's Gate.

Modifié par ShadowDragoonFTW, 18 janvier 2013 - 02:29 .

[Althix]

so what? shadows in pocket between planes also not eager to talk. however you can talk through in most cases instead of fight through them.
to play in planescape you need a brain, patience and ability to read walls of text and understand it.

Also, BG/BG2 and those old games are based on a setting that already existed, with combat that was already made. BW did not invented it.
Origins have this echo of old games, but that is all. Time for complex games has passed.

[Allan Schumacher]

Wulfram wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If you haven't played Planescape: Torment, however, we cannot be friends.

What if we played the first bit of it and then got bored?

Then you should give it another try, since that's exactly what happened to me my first playthrough!

[addiction21]

EntropicAngel wrote...


How much was it touted? Was it mentioned in every trailor? Was it in every interview? Did they reference BG when they talked about features?

Not much at all. I do not think it was even said in one trailer. Not every. Not as far as I am aware.

EntropicAngel wrote...


I've been around this place long enough to know how easy it is for people to fill in the dots for something they want to see.

That's pretty much it and with DA:O's release there were plenty upset that they did not get the spiritual successor they were promised. THe debates of wheter it was or was not raged on for a while.

[Herr Uhl]

secretsandlies wrote...

p.s. yes i belive the fact that you can complete a game with out fighting is not for everyone.

This is where the problem lies. Not in the ability not to fight, but in the fight system.

Combat was more whack than Arcanum yo!

[upsettingshorts]

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

 (I feel safe in saying this) majority of Dragon Age players are people who also played Baldur's Gate.

I honestly doubt it.

[hoorayforicecream]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

 (I feel safe in saying this) majority of Dragon Age players are people who also played Baldur's Gate.

I honestly doubt it.

Baldur's Gate sold around 2 million copies, so the numbers would suggest that the majority of dragon age players didn't necessarily play Baldur's Gate.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 18 janvier 2013 - 04:22 .

[Althix]

i don't think that combat or its animation have anything to do with the game. because combat is not important.

Also - giant plane-to-plane pattern cannon. You can't see anything like that anywhere.

[LinksOcarina]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

 (I feel safe in saying this) majority of Dragon Age players are people who also played Baldur's Gate.

I honestly doubt it.

Baldur's Gate sold around 2 million copies, so the numbers would suggest that the majority of dragon age players didn't necessarily play Baldur's Gate.

That means very little, but at the same time considering how different and widespread the market is when Dragon Age was released, id say that its likely few people who picked it up played Baldur's Gate, or at the very least had an inkling of what Baldur's Gate was because of the PR speak saying its a spiritual successor. 

[Talonfire]

simfamSP wrote...

secretsandlies wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

If you haven't played Planescape: Torment, however, we cannot be friends.

What if we played the first bit of it and then got bored?

then you have no idea what good rpg is

HEY! Let's not start a fight. PST is my favourite game EVER, but I can understand that it's a very slow game, and perhaps not for everyone.

It's not slow in general, but it has a very slow start. Torment is one of those games that you have to give a chance. If you stick with it, it will reward you with some of (if not the) best writing in the video game industry, and some excellent role playing.

EntropicAngel wrote...

ShadowDragoonFTW wrote...

Yeah,
but that's part of the problem. The game was originally touted to
players of Baldur's Gate in a way that made it seem like the series was
going to have the same essence and feel.

To an extent, they
succeeded with the first game. But with the second, they dropped a lot
of the things that made the first game appeal to that crowd. 

The
reason it's such an issue is because that was one of the major
marketing platforms for DA:O from when it was first announced. The
series got a major platform and following because it marketed itself in such a way to the crowd that played and loved Baldur's Gate.

The
fact that people can say, "Yeah, that's not why I got into the series"
shouldn't be an indication that they can drop that pretense altogether,
beecause the (I feel safe in saying this) majority of Dragon Age players
are people who also played Baldur's Gate.

How
much was it touted? Was it mentioned in every trailor? Was it in every
interview? Did they reference BG when they talked about features?

It wasn't referenced in trailers, but it was talked about a lot in pre-release interviews.

Speaking as someone who has finished both Baldur's Gate titles and their expansions numerous times over the years, I never considered Dragon Age: Origins a particularly good spiritual successor to that series. There was more to Baldur's Gate's spirit than it being a tactical party based RPG with a story, and that's about the only thing Origins has in common with its spiritual predecessors. I personally find it better to disregard that BioWare ever made such a claim at all.

Modifié par Talonfire, 18 janvier 2013 - 05:02 .

[Addai]

EntropicAngel wrote...
How much was it touted? Was it mentioned in every trailor? Was it in every interview? Did they reference BG when they talked about features?

It was a marketing line, one among others.  The only reason I played DA was because the spouse had played Baldur's Gate and bought DAO based mostly on Bioware saying it was a "spiritual successor."  He was satisfied with DAO, did not like DA2.  For whatever that's worth.

[lazuli]

To me, it meant that I could expect an RPG with an emphasis on action, character customization, story, and memorable characters.  I would say the statement applies more to DA:O than it ever would to DA2.

I'm in the process of playing through BG:EE, and I'd say that comparison still holds true.


To take it in a snarky direction, the statement could also mean that we should expect a game with wildly unbalanced combat and overpowered magic.  I love DA:O, but its combat wasn't perfect.

[Iakus]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

I've heard nothing but good things about BG2, and I'd really want to give it a try. Thing is - as soon as I know sequels have a direct connection with previous games I have serious problems playing a game with a "2" or "3" in the title unless I have finished the predecessors. Hurm, I'll think of a way to deal with this. It's not like I had too much time for gaming atm anyways...

The connections are minimal.  Some recurring characters, you play the same character, that's about it.  These are from the days before save imports 

[Fredward]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Am I the only one ever not to play Baldur's Gate?

I recommend it.  The second one is one of my favourite games.

If you haven't played Planescape: Torment, however, we cannot be friends.

I was 6 when it came out and now it just looks sooooooooo old. Kind of like people do when they reach thirty. XD

[TheRealJayDee]

iakus wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

I've heard nothing but good things about BG2, and I'd really want to give it a try. Thing is - as soon as I know sequels have a direct connection with previous games I have serious problems playing a game with a "2" or "3" in the title unless I have finished the predecessors. Hurm, I'll think of a way to deal with this. It's not like I had too much time for gaming atm anyways...

The connections are minimal.  Some recurring characters, you play the same character, that's about it.  These are from the days before save imports 

So what you're telling me is that it would really be okay to play BG2 without having played BG,,,?!  I... okay, it's not easy for me, but maybe I'll just give it a try this weekend. I mean, what the hell, you only live once, right...!? 

[Talonfire]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

iakus wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

I've heard nothing but good things about BG2, and I'd really want to give it a try. Thing is - as soon as I know sequels have a direct connection with previous games I have serious problems playing a game with a "2" or "3" in the title unless I have finished the predecessors. Hurm, I'll think of a way to deal with this. It's not like I had too much time for gaming atm anyways...

The connections are minimal.  Some recurring characters, you play the same character, that's about it.  These are from the days before save imports 

So what you're telling me is that it would really be okay to play BG2 without having played BG,,,?!  I... okay, it's not easy for me, but maybe I'll just give it a try this weekend. I mean, what the hell, you only live once, right...!? 

I wouldn't say it's okay, not if you're in it for the story anyway. If you really care about the plot of the series as a whole then starting with BG2 is a very bad idea.

If all you care about is the gameplay then it's okay. Frankly though, if you didn't care for Baldur's Gate I don't see you enjoying the sequel, outside of some more substantial side quests, slightly more in-depth party interaction and some minor mechanical refinements it's the same game.

Modifié par Talonfire, 18 janvier 2013 - 11:24 .

[Allan Schumacher]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Am I the only one ever not to play Baldur's Gate?

I recommend it.  The second one is one of my favourite games.

If you haven't played Planescape: Torment, however, we cannot be friends.

I was 6 when it came out and now it just looks sooooooooo old. Kind of like people do when they reach thirty. XD

It's a fine wine I'm sure!  (I haven't played it in several years myself.  Last go was probably around 2007 or 2008).

It will look dated, yes.  But the writing and characters are timeless IMO.

So what you're telling me is that it would really be okay to play BG2 without having played BG,,,?!  I...
okay, it's not easy for me, but maybe I'll just give it a try this
weekend. I mean, what the hell, you only live once, right...!?

It is.  I actually don't know if I have ever actually beaten BG1 (I have seen the end, but I cannot remember if it was just because I saw it happen, or if I actually played it), though I did play the first quite a bit and was able to reach the expansion experience cap.

BG2 is a pretty capable stand alone game.

Frankly though, if you didn't care for Baldur's Gate I don't see you
enjoying the sequel, outside of some more substantial side quests,
slightly more in-depth party interaction and some minor mechanical
refinements it's the same game.

I disagree.  There's enough difference in the focus of the game that I find the second to be a markedly improved product, in more than just the side quests.

Party interaction is not "slightly more in-depth," but rather full fledged conversations and development rather than mostly passive followers that may chime in from time to time.  By today's standards they might not be too impressive, but it helped set the stage for that depth of conversation.

It's a much more focused story, with less focus on "open world" style of elements.  I consider this a strength (though I can understand that some may not).  BG2 was a game I was able to playthrough multiple times, even in the same way as a previous playthrough, while BG1 was not.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 18 janvier 2013 - 11:28 .

[zyntifox]

Wait, you haven't finished BG1 Allan? To quote our favorite ranger "This behaviour must not continue. Feel the burning stare of my hamster and change your ways."

[Allan Schumacher]

I don't know if I ever actually completed the game. I'd lean to say "no" since I think I'd have a clearer memory of it if I did.

I did play it a lot (mostly as an MP campaign) and even imported my Paladin into the the second one, but I don't know if I actually defeated Sarevok.

[Talonfire]

Allan Schumacher wrote...
Party interaction is not "slightly more in-depth," but rather full fledged conversations and development rather than mostly passive followers that may chime in from time to time.  By today's standards they might not be too impressive, but it helped set the stage for that depth of conversation.

That's why I said slightly more in-depth in this case.

It's a much more focused story, with less focus on "open world" style of elements.  I consider this a strength (though I can understand that some may not).  BG2 was a game I was able to playthrough multiple times, even in the same way as a previous playthrough, while BG1 was not.

This implies that the open world aspect of Baldur's Gate had an impact on how the story was told, I personally never had that feeling.

Modifié par Talonfire, 19 janvier 2013 - 12:32 .

[Shelondias]

Gazardiel wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

Balduer's Gate did not have a "tactical camera" it just had a 3 quarter isometric view locked in and all you got.

It's the locked view that keeps me from wanting to replay BG; I loaded it up recently and felt really cramped. 

I keep trying to zoom in or spin the camera around like it's a reflex. Only as I'm doing it do I realize that such action is impossible.

[nicethugbert]

I want the DAO camera back but with a larger zoom range and I want it to follow the terrain so I don't have to keep adjusting it every time I go up/dawn a hill.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 19 janvier 2013 - 03:41 .

[Kulyok]

Party interaction is not "slightly more in-depth," but rather full fledged conversations and development rather than mostly passive followers that may chime in from time to time. By today's standards they might not be too impressive, but it helped set the stage for that depth of conversation.

Actually, by today's standards Baldur's Gate 2 had much more vanilla interaction than all Dragon Age and Neverwinter nights games put together: Anomen had 20+ lovetalks, Viconia had about forty, and once the game was fixed, we discovered that even non-romanceable party followers had something to say about nearly every quest(so-called "interjections").

We lost much when voicing came.

(And, yes, mods).