174 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexanderCousland]

addiction21 wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Psssh. Dont try to take some sort of moral high ground on me like you dont participate in debate' s that' s kind of hypotcritical. Abolished/Disbanded/Disolved/Destroyed we can go on and on with semantic' s you know the point of what I was trying to say. Lmao. THE CIRCLE DOESNT EXIST ANYMORE, you know the Chantry has fallen to Pieces from the beggining of the game and the entire world is about to go to War, and that' s why I said WHY play? What' s the point?

I know what I did and I don't like to get threads locked bickering with some person that does not even know the meaning of the words he is using.
The differences between destroyed or annulled and disbanded are not semantics. You were blatantly wrong and trying to move the goalpost as usual. No one can know what your point is if you do not even know what you yourself are saying.

Want to go further send me a PM or make a thread for this.

Whoa..Insults :happy: Why would I PM you? Apparently I wouldnt know the meaning of the word' s Im typing you.

Circle doesn' t exist anymore < my point. If you want to pick on me for saying destroyed. It' s certainly your perogative.

[AlexanderCousland]

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, I dunno about you, but when I play a story-based game, I do it because I want to know the story. As in the whole story, not just how it ends.

Well Yea....but I was expecting to play the game described below:

Key Features:

°Embark upon an all-new adventure that takes place across an entire decade and shapes itself around every decision you make.

°Determine your rise to power from a destitute refugee to the revered champion of the land.

°Think like a general and fight like a Spartan with dynamic new combat mechanics that put you right in the heart of battle whether you are a mage, rogue, or warrior.

°Go deeper into the world of Dragon Age with an entirely new cinematic experience that grabs hold of you from the beginning and never lets go.

°Discover a whole realm rendered in stunning detail with updated graphics and a new visual style.

Modifié par FreshIstay, 18 janvier 2013 - 06:37 .

[Kidd]

FreshIstay wrote...

Well Yea....but I was expecting to play the game described below

I did. ^^

[AlexanderCousland]

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Well Yea....but I was expecting to play the game described below

I did. ^^

if you can go line by line and explain how, It would appreciate it, Im very curious to hear your answer' s. I promise I wont debate any answer you give..I just want to read them.

Modifié par FreshIstay, 18 janvier 2013 - 07:58 .

[Dabrikishaw]

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

I too use to raise an eyebrow when I'd hear praise about DA2's companions having there own lives and not, as some basically put it, mindlessly waiting around a camp for the warden to interact with them.

To me, the only thing different is the setting. Yes, Fenris has the mansion, Isabela and Varric have the Hanged Man, etc. But they are doing the exact same thing the Origins' companions did, which is standing in the exact same spot (for almost ten years, I might add) waiting for Hawke to interact with them. I guess if you do half the creative work, you can imagine Isabela walking around the Hanged Man, drink in hand, flirting with the patrons. You can imagine Aveline at her desk piling through paperwork, or out back training her guardsmen.

But that's the thing isn't it? You, as the player, have to imagine the companions going about their own lives, the game doesn't it for you. If all it takes for people to claim that DA2's companions are 'going about their own lives' is to simply drop each companion in front of a different background, then hell, why can't I claim Origins' companions are going about their own lives, they just all happen to be in the same setting.

Morrigan and Fenris do the exact same thing when not actively in the party, they stand in the same spot, not moving, until they are placed in the party. Just because Fenris mimics a statue in a different spot then Merrill or Anders does not mean he's 'going about his life' while not in the party. Unless, as I said before, you as the player do half the work and imagine Fenris, in his mansion, cleaning up a bit or sipping wine in front of a roaring fireplace. And, if that's the case, I can rightly say that Leliana or Sten are actively going about their lives, they just happen to be in the same setting. I can easily imagine Sten cleaning his blade, or Leliana gathering herbs or preparing something to eat. Apparently, if I listen to those who claim DA2's companions had their own lives, that's all it takes; a little imagination.

My point being that in order to rightfully claim that companions are 'going about their own lives', they should....well, actually be going about their lives. Not standing around like a beef eater, just in a different setting than the other companions. This burdens the player with half the work of imagining the companion interacting with their setting. And if that's the case, then Origins companions were going about their own lives just as much as DA2's were, they just all happen to be in the same setting.

[Plaintiff]

Dabrikishaw wrote...

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

I too use to raise an eyebrow when I'd hear praise about DA2's companions having there own lives and not, as some basically put it, mindlessly waiting around a camp for the warden to interact with them.

To me, the only thing different is the setting. Yes, Fenris has the mansion, Isabela and Varric have the Hanged Man, etc. But they are doing the exact same thing the Origins' companions did, which is standing in the exact same spot (for almost ten years, I might add) waiting for Hawke to interact with them. I guess if you do half the creative work, you can imagine Isabela walking around the Hanged Man, drink in hand, flirting with the patrons. You can imagine Aveline at her desk piling through paperwork, or out back training her guardsmen.

But that's the thing isn't it? You, as the player, have to imagine the companions going about their own lives, the game doesn't it for you. If all it takes for people to claim that DA2's companions are 'going about their own lives' is to simply drop each companion in front of a different background, then hell, why can't I claim Origins' companions are going about their own lives, they just all happen to be in the same setting.

Morrigan and Fenris do the exact same thing when not actively in the party, they stand in the same spot, not moving, until they are placed in the party. Just because Fenris mimics a statue in a different spot then Merrill or Anders does not mean he's 'going about his life' while not in the party. Unless, as I said before, you as the player do half the work and imagine Fenris, in his mansion, cleaning up a bit or sipping wine in front of a roaring fireplace. And, if that's the case, I can rightly say that Leliana or Sten are actively going about their lives, they just happen to be in the same setting. I can easily imagine Sten cleaning his blade, or Leliana gathering herbs or preparing something to eat. Apparently, if I listen to those who claim DA2's companions had their own lives, that's all it takes; a little imagination.

My point being that in order to rightfully claim that companions are 'going about their own lives', they should....well, actually be going about their lives. Not standing around like a beef eater, just in a different setting than the other companions. This burdens the player with half the work of imagining the companion interacting with their setting. And if that's the case, then Origins companions were going about their own lives just as much as DA2's were, they just all happen to be in the same setting.

Well, DA2 actually explicitly shows you that the characters visit and interact with each other without Hawke's input or knowledge. Aveline and Isabela visit Fenris, Isabela and Merrill visit Anders, Anders visits Varric, Varric visits Merrill, Aveline visits Sebastian, Isabela visits Aveline.

All the party members will also visit Hawke of their own volition, for multiple reasons.

[LliiraAnna]

Well, I kinda think that DA2 IS more character-based then DAO. In the latter, the Warden has a task - to stop the Blight. This is not a personal choice for the Warden, it is his duty, something he must do - and since it is possible to refuse to join until you are conscripted, this duty can be something the Warden is forced to do.
In Hawke's case, all the things he does are his own choise. Going to the Deep Roads was neither his duty nor was it forced upon him. Clear, the game does not allow the players to refuse, because it'll stop the plot development, but still, it's Hawke's decision and choice. People ask Hawke to do things, and he does them because he is feeling like accepting, not because he must. His goals are personal - first, to save his family, than to get a decent living, than... Not so for the Warden, who gets as good as no personal benefit, since in most origins you join because otherwise you will die, and you gain nothing apart from nightmares, constant darkspawn fighting, and a perspective for an early and not very pleasant death.

Just imo. DA2 wasn't ideal, as wasn't DAO. Both games are different and have their own advantages and disadvantages. For my part, I hope that the companions will be better developed in DA3, because the lack of dialogue.. is maddening. Seriously, I've spoken to an NPC two or three times, and he's already in love with me?..

[Allan Schumacher]

Plaintiff wrote...

In breaking news, Batlin has more complaints about DA2. This is a great shock to nobody.

At the same time, comments like these don't do much to improve the atmosphere either.

If one feels that Batlin is somewhat predictable in his postings, I hope I can assure you that a lack of protestations won't result in your perspectives being lost on the dev team, nor Batlin's being overrepresented.


It's appreciated.  Cheers!

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:50 .

[Kidd]

FreshIstay wrote...

KiddDaBeauty wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Well Yea....but I was expecting to play the game described below

I did. ^^

if you can go line by line and explain how, It would appreciate it, Im very curious to hear your answer' s. I promise I wont debate any answer you give..I just want to read them.

All right, PMing you then! =)

[BrookerT]

Dabrikishaw wrote...

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

I too use to raise an eyebrow when I'd hear praise about DA2's companions having there own lives and not, as some basically put it, mindlessly waiting around a camp for the warden to interact with them.

To me, the only thing different is the setting. Yes, Fenris has the mansion, Isabela and Varric have the Hanged Man, etc. But they are doing the exact same thing the Origins' companions did, which is standing in the exact same spot (for almost ten years, I might add) waiting for Hawke to interact with them. I guess if you do half the creative work, you can imagine Isabela walking around the Hanged Man, drink in hand, flirting with the patrons. You can imagine Aveline at her desk piling through paperwork, or out back training her guardsmen.

But that's the thing isn't it? You, as the player, have to imagine the companions going about their own lives, the game doesn't it for you. If all it takes for people to claim that DA2's companions are 'going about their own lives' is to simply drop each companion in front of a different background, then hell, why can't I claim Origins' companions are going about their own lives, they just all happen to be in the same setting.

Morrigan and Fenris do the exact same thing when not actively in the party, they stand in the same spot, not moving, until they are placed in the party. Just because Fenris mimics a statue in a different spot then Merrill or Anders does not mean he's 'going about his life' while not in the party. Unless, as I said before, you as the player do half the work and imagine Fenris, in his mansion, cleaning up a bit or sipping wine in front of a roaring fireplace. And, if that's the case, I can rightly say that Leliana or Sten are actively going about their lives, they just happen to be in the same setting. I can easily imagine Sten cleaning his blade, or Leliana gathering herbs or preparing something to eat. Apparently, if I listen to those who claim DA2's companions had their own lives, that's all it takes; a little imagination.

My point being that in order to rightfully claim that companions are 'going about their own lives', they should....well, actually be going about their lives. Not standing around like a beef eater, just in a different setting than the other companions. This burdens the player with half the work of imagining the companion interacting with their setting. And if that's the case, then Origins companions were going about their own lives just as much as DA2's were, they just all happen to be in the same setting.

When people say that dragon age 2's characters having there own lives, that don't really mean they move around as such. You mentioned imagining characters going about there lives? Dragon age 2 tells you they do, you don't have to imagine it. 

We are told through party banter that Fenris is playing poker with Aveline's husband do nic, where they discuss the possibly of Aveline and donnic having children. 

Carver tries to join the Kirkwall guard, but Aveline tell s them not to accept him.

These are some examples of companions living there own lives outside of Hawke. It's antitrust possible to argue that origins had these as well, when people describe b the companions living there own lives, this is generally what they mean.

[Allan Schumacher]

Wulfram wrote...

I really don't see much of a personal story. Just a lack of any sort of real main plot. If the player creates for themselves a personal story, then that absence maybe gives it more prominence, but I don't think the game does anything particularly to encourage the creation of such a personal story.

I do think the companions have more of a life outside of the PC. Actually, I sometimes felt a bit left out - how come Fenris goes around having card games with everyone else, but Hawke just gets "Mages are bad, slaves are bad" all the time?

When I think of personal story, I think more that the focus is more on Hawke specifically, and his/her family, rather than more external forces at play.

That's not to say that external forces aren't at play, but I saw it more as Hawke becoming involved with things because of Hawke being Hawke, and the circumstances around the Hawke family.  Whether or not you think we did it well is one thing, but I agree that that is more of an execution problem.

I don't see DAO as being so much of a personal story.  Though a game like Planescape: Torment certainly is.

[Renmiri1]

Dabrikishaw wrote...

Scarlet Rabbi wrote...

I too use to raise an eyebrow when I'd hear praise about DA2's companions having there own lives and not, as some basically put it, mindlessly waiting around a camp for the warden to interact with them.

To me, the only thing different is the setting....
Morrigan and Fenris do the exact same thing when not actively in the party, they stand in the same spot, not moving, until they are placed in the party. Just because Fenris mimics a statue in a different spot then Merrill or Anders does not mean he's 'going about his life' while not in the party.. 


then Origins companions were going about their own lives just as much as DA2's were, they just all happen to be in the same setting.

OK, what was Alistair doing while not in camp or with the Warden ? Does the game describe anything he did ? Nope. Shall we compare ?
DAO
Alistair ? Nothing. just thinking about the past
Morrigan ? A little bit, she researches on Flemeth's grimoire.
Zevran ? A little bit, he asks around to see what the crows are up to. 
Leliana ? She hears about her former mentor
Oghren ? Nothing. just thinking about the past
Winne ? Nothing. just thinking about the past
Sten ? Nothing. just thinking about the future and eating cookies

DA2
Merril ? Visiting the city's parks - oops viscount garden, watching life on alienage, cooking and playing with kittens, fixing mirror
Fenris ? Playing cards, taking some odd jobs from Varric, contacting his sister
Isabella ? Searching for the book of Koslum, hiding from her old boss, bedding half of Kirkwall
Aveline ? Working as a guard, falling in love, protecting Hawke, helping Fenris
Anders ? Running a clinic, writing manifestos, building bombs
need I continue ?

The ONLY npc that had a life besides the camp/ mission on DAO was Bartrand. He went around with Sandal trading his wares, listening to ruomors, fetching more stuff to sell.. All the rest had nothing else going in their lives but the fight to end the Blight.

Arguably , that was very appropriate, when you have to kill an Archdemon you don't go around looking for stolen relics and writing politics panphlets. But doesn't change the fact that they were very one dimensional in this aspect. Their lives WERE to serve the Warden. Period.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 18 janvier 2013 - 09:00 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I really don't see much of a personal story. Just a lack of any sort of real main plot. If the player creates for themselves a personal story, then that absence maybe gives it more prominence, but I don't think the game does anything particularly to encourage the creation of such a personal story.

I do think the companions have more of a life outside of the PC. Actually, I sometimes felt a bit left out - how come Fenris goes around having card games with everyone else, but Hawke just gets "Mages are bad, slaves are bad" all the time?

When I think of personal story, I think more that the focus is more on Hawke specifically, and his/her family, rather than more external forces at play.

That's not to say that external forces aren't at play, but I saw it more as Hawke becoming involved with things because of Hawke being Hawke, and the circumstances around the Hawke family.  Whether or not you think we did it well is one thing, but I agree that that is more of an execution problem.

I don't see DAO as being so much of a personal story.  Though a game like Planescape: Torment certainly is.

I agree. DA2 is the more personal story and could have been done better. 

As a gamer, do you prefer to the Framed Narrative approach? 

[Allan Schumacher]

I think the framed narrative approach could have been done really well with an RPG, but ultimately wasn't delivered quite as well as it could have been for DA2.

Some of the aspects of framed narrative, such as immediately seeing the consequences of your actions (but timeline wise, it takes SOME time for the repercussions to occur, so it'd still be a few years or whatever), could have been done quite well. From a humor standpoint, we could have done more stuff like Bertrand's manor (though too much and it starts to get old). We actually did have more "fake" scenes, but there was a bit of a pacing issue, and felt it was making the crit path come across as a bit inconsistent, where it bounces between campy and serious, while making Varric's interactions with Cassandra a bit less interesting and consistent (I bet Bertrand's survived because it was pretty well done IMO haha).

I don't think one is better than the other, it's just in how it gets used. It's more a reflection of the aggressive plan reducing iteration time, in my opinion.

[Renmiri1]

Bartrand's was funny the first 2-3 times, then it got to be a chore to go through it just to have to redo it all five seconds later. "Fake" sequences should be skippable on replays

[AlexanderCousland]

The framed narrative definitely allows you guys alot more flexibility for DA:I.
Varric could have been lying could alway' s be invoked lmao.

Origin' s still has my heart, I certainly hope you guy' s remember the Warden honorably.

[Wulfram]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

When I think of personal story, I think more that the focus is more on Hawke specifically, and his/her family, rather than more external forces at play.

That's not to say that external forces aren't at play, but I saw it more as Hawke becoming involved with things because of Hawke being Hawke, and the circumstances around the Hawke family.  Whether or not you think we did it well is one thing, but I agree that that is more of an execution problem.

I really don't see that.  The focus, for me, was on the Qunari and the Mages/Templars.  And a bunch of sidequests, and Varric and Bartrand's expedition to the deep roads.  Hawke got one quest to atttempt to save his mother, just as my CE Warden got one quest to save her father.  The family seemed fairly irrelevant to everything else.

And Hawke really felt considerably less relevant to the main story because it wasn't shaped by their choices, but just happened around him.  Whereas the Warden's character was much more in play because the tale was shaped by it.

I don't see DAO as being so much of a personal story.  Though a game like Planescape: Torment certainly is.

I don't think you can do a personal story in an RPG without a much more predefined character than Bioware has done in it's RPGs.

Modifié par Wulfram, 18 janvier 2013 - 11:46 .

[Reikilea]

I think ME had much better personal story. I´m mentioning this because DA2 just masseffected everything - dialogue wheel, hawke, interactions.... And it didnt work that well. Hawke was just this bloke I played, not as awesome as playing Shepard. I much liked other characters then Hawke. And definitely not as great as playing my warden.

And even in ME your companions have quite colorfull life without Shep. I mean Kaidan did much better without Shepard, Garrus went all vigilante, Tali is admiral now, Liara is broker. I understand that Shep prompted them to do something, but the great thing they actually did it.

Compared to that DA2 characters are static. Years go by and they dont move, all depentant on Hawke folloving hims without any logical explanation.

In Origins it was understandable if characters did nothing, because they all had one journey, one direction - the same one as warden. They basically abandoned their previous lives in order to help warden on his task. And from that point it became thier joined goal. 

In DA2 with all this personal story it was Hawke´s journey, not theirs. Characters could do whatewer they wanted, they didnt have one big quest. Instead of that, they just stand around, waiting for Hawke to play with them. Their personal stories were ignored in order to focus on Hawke´s story. 

Modifié par Reikilea, 18 janvier 2013 - 11:50 .

[Sir JK]

Wulfram wrote...

I really don't see that.  The focus was on the Qunari and the Mages/Templars.  And a bunch of sidequests, and Varric and Bartrand's expedition to the deep roads.  Hawke got one quest to atttempt to save his mother, just as my CE Warden got one quest to save her father.  The family seemed fairly irrelevant to everything else.

And Hawke really felt considerably less relevant to the main story because it wasn't shaped by their choices, but just happened around him.  Whereas the Warden's character was much more in play because the tale was shaped by it.

Are they really problems to be solved though? The Warden solves problems to be sure. Shapes the world around him by his inner strength and moral fiber (or lack thereof).
But are the Qunari, the Mage/templars, the threat of detection, the risk of being refused access and the threat of the darkspawn distinct things or parts of the same repeating pattern? Is not Merril's plot her doing the same thing three times, rather than three distinct things? Is it not so that whenever you achieve something in DA2, you're just dragged down deeper into the swamp? That by solving external problems... the story just repeats itself.

Consider Planescape Torment. What exactly do you achieve? Aren't you just running from one memory to the other? Helping some people along the path, sure. The big thing, that breaks you out of the cycle of chasing your memory, is in fact not recovering your memory but another realisation alltogether.

Hawke changes nothing big in the world around him, no. Not like the warden. But perhaps that isn't what Hawke's journey truly is? Not solving everything, but something else entirely?

[Wulfram]

If you're saying that there was an internal journey for Hawke, I saw no opportunities for this to be expresssed and nowhere this was reflected in game.

[Aytanay]

*Not sure if this matters but there's spoilers ahead*

When I heard DA2 was to use a limited character (just human with one background) I thought it wouldn't be good, I had people telling me it sucked and I almost didn't want to play it, but I loved it even so.

I actually like the way the companions were made, sure I could use more interaction with them, but I also enjoyed how it was. Seeing what happened to Aveline because I refused to help her in that annoying part of her life was pretty funny, I liked to see that my help (or lack of it) made a diference. I guess the characters that didn't stand out doing something obvious for their lives is because they really didn't want it to be found out. Fenris is a recluse person, he doesn't go around telling people what he is doing, Isabela is too selfish to share anything that won't benefit her, Varric is always telling his tales and gathering info. Even if you don't see it (because that is the point of it) Anders is helping the mages, Merrill I didn't care much to pay atention really.. but I guess she is always worshipping that mirror. Sebastian is too busy with his revenge/chantry worshipping to do anything else.

But I DID enjoy all of it (except that I wanted the option to kill Merrill and hit Isabela - oh yea, this I could do)
note: I do like Merrill, she is silly and funny, really inocent girl and that is interesting, but I really wanted the option to kill her for being so stupid and selfish. I would have done that in one of my Hawkes.

I trust the DA team to make a great game, and these points that you don't like OP are things that not only didn't bother me but some I really loved. So, if they think it will be good that way, I hope they do. Improvements would be great, but I think they already know and have been working on that.

[TEWR]

I think we can't really claim what constitutes a personal story until we first define what an RPG in the veins of DA should have, at the very least, to truly be a personal story.

Sufficient family interactions?
A clear goal that relates to the family?
Conflict that threatens the family?

And so on and so forth.

I'd argue that while DAII attempted these things, its execution wasn't very stellar. You might even have to have these things repeatedly hammered in your face to drive home the sense of "these things affect all of us, just as the ripples affect a lake".

[Sir JK]

Wulfram: Fair enough. I thought there were, but I think I can see your point regardless. It is something the game could have done much better, that I think is certain. The structure was that of a personal story, even if the ability to express the internal journey lacked in execution.

Etheral Writer: I don't think family is required for a personal story at all. It is something relatable, since all of us have a family, but not crucial for a personal story. I could easily see a personal story where you only meet strangers and visit alien enviroments.

What defines a personal story is that the journey primarily takes place within. The external factors are distractions, lessons or caused by the internal challenges that need to be overcome.

[Knight of Dane]

Wulfram wrote...

If you're saying that there was an internal journey for Hawke, I saw no opportunities for this to be expresssed and nowhere this was reflected in game.

The only time I can remember is when Aveline asks about you after Mother's death.

[Fast Jimmy]

Sir JK wrote...

Wulfram: Fair enough. I thought there were, but I think I can see your point regardless. It is something the game could have done much better, that I think is certain. The structure was that of a personal story, even if the ability to express the internal journey lacked in execution.

Etheral Writer: I don't think family is required for a personal story at all. It is something relatable, since all of us have a family, but not crucial for a personal story. I could easily see a personal story where you only meet strangers and visit alien enviroments.

What defines a personal story is that the journey primarily takes place within. The external factors are distractions, lessons or caused by the internal challenges that need to be overcome.

I disagree. A story cannot just take place within and have no outward display and still be labeled a personal story. If that were the case, you could read a history textbook outlining the events of the reign of Cardinal Richilieu and his actions and have that be a "personal story," despite it being in a textbook and us having no idea what type of internal or emotional struggles Richilieu underwent.

If we think about Hawke as being an Origin, that of a refugee fleeing from a Blight-devastated Lothering, we can begin to see how this was an attempt at a more personal story. The amount of reactivity to that origin is pretty stunning (if it were an option). Hawke arrives with family members (and is either an Apostate Mage or has an Apostate Mage sibling) and a companion they recruited on their flight of Ferelden and with a mission to deliver the amulet to Sundermount for Flemeth. This Origin is then referenced multiple times, with your family being tied into the main story and the actions of your family members tying into things.

Let's imagine, instead, that there were multiple Origins. Let's say that, just like with Duncan, Flemeth encountered a different group of travelers, say a group of Dwarves escpaing from the new Dwarven king's reign. Or a Dalish elf who is either chasing the werewolf survivors, or was the last of the their tribe that avoided the butchering the Warden could have unleashed, with a drive for revenge. Or a Denerim noble who had to flee from their city right before the Warden's final battle there.

Most of the game could have played out the same way, in regards to gaining entrance by joining a merc group, attempting to go on the expedition in order to make life much more comfortable, being chosen to deal with the Qunari, keeping peace with the Mages, etc.

I'm not arguing that multiple races should have been in DA2. I'm not even arguing that multiple origins should have been. But if they HAD and they all had the same (or near, I'd take a step or two down on the totally custom story of Hawke's family) elements of reference to where you came from and your Origin, the game would have been heralded as a masterpiece. Well, maybe not a MASTERPIECE (there were still a lot of gameplay issues I had with the game, many of which are starting to come back like flashbacks with a third playthrough I just sparked up), but it would have been viewed as a triumph of giving a more personal story based on the character's background.

Imagine if Hawke's mother dying by the serial killer was a custom content quest series, where each Origin had their own tragedy play out in a (somewhat) similar fashion. Not that you'd have a serial killer zombify a family member via blood magic, but say if you were a dwarf you brought your fiance with you and, now that you had an estate and established a stable home, you all were going to be married. But then Elven Qunari converts kidnapped her and wound up assassinating her, for some plot reason. 

Just like Hawke was pitted to take a look at the dangers of blood magic with his mom's death, the above story could show how dangerous the spread of the Qunari faith, especially the fanaticism of early converts that can result in actions outside of that faith, can be. That would be a more personal story for my dwarf origin I just spun up on the fly.


Point being, if Hawke's story was an OPTION, one of many, it would have been viewed as great. But as a stand-alone, it falls short of hooking us in with Hawke's history and personal reasons, yet it also constricts us into dealing with certain undeniable set aspects. Which leaves a lukewarm middle ground that can be dissatisfying to some (if not many).