batlin wrote...
I never moved goalposts. My statement hasn't changed at all since my very first post in this thread.
It certainly never stopped being vague.
Isabela does not change unless Hawke influences her. Merril does not change unless Hawke influences her.
You don't actually know that, because there is no version of the game where Hawke does not exist. If Hawke never meets Isabela, she leaves Kirkwall. We don't know what becomes of her then.
Yes, being influenced by the actions of your friend does not mean your life is centered on them. being influenced by one friend and that friend only does.
And who says this is the case? Hawke is not privy to the vast majority of his companion's actions, let alone their thought processes.
Yes, and they are each changes that occurred prior to the game's narrative. Alistair had a pretty eventful life before he met the Warden. So did Zevran, Leliana, Oghren, Wynne, etc. Would you say that the party in DA:O lead their own lives just as much as the party in DA2?
The party in DA:O are not shown to have much in the way of personal lives, nor do I expect such to be shown, because they are dealing with a clear, present, immediate threat, and are constantly on the move. They are not settled in one place, they have not had much chance to make friends with each other, let alone outside of the group. Surely they did have lives prior to meeting the Warden, but the nature of the narrative requires them to put those lives on hold, in order to join the quest against the Blight.
DA2 is a different kind of story, and has different requirements. Aveline runs the guard on her own and made the decision to woo Donnic on her own. Merrill constructs a mirror and researchs ancient Elvish lore on her own. Varric runs a business on his own. Fenris locates his sister on his own. Anders runs a clinic and writes manifestos and smuggles mages to freedom on his own. Sebastian performs his duties to the Chantry on his own. Isabela hangs out at the Hanged Man and drinks, but she does it on her own. Bethany and Carver go out into the world and have careers and adventures of their own.
They also all hang out with each other, or communicate through other means, without Hawke's knowledge. For example, it is learned through banter in a DLC that Isabela sends a Circle-imprisoned Bethany erotic novels to read. They do not abandon their lives when they join up with Hawke, because it is not a requirement. They are not a party of adventurers, they are a group of friends and acquaintances. Brought together by their mutual connection with Hawke, yes, but not ruled by it.
I think it's
very obvious that they have their own lives, outside of Hawke, even if we don't see a great deal of them. Expecting them to make drastic changes in order to qualify is an absurd requirement, I think, but nevertheless, drastic changes occur. Some with Hawke's influence, some without.
DA:O and DA2 are different kinds of story, that make different demands of their characters. Neither is superior to the other, they are just different.
Let me put it another way: What do they accomplish that is noteworthy? If "important" is too ambiguous a phrase, does that help? Going to college is a noteworthy undertaking. So is getting a girlfriend/boyfriend, going on a trip overseas, getting arrested, taking up a hobby, etc.
In a narrative, everything is noteworthy. If it wasn't noteworthy, it wouldn't be in the narrative. But even if they didn't do anything noteworthy, it's clear that they still have their own lives. But, to satisfy your parameters: Most of them
definitely have their own hobbies, and they're very dangerous ones at that. Collecting stamps is far removed from the hobbies of Hawke's friends. Aveline enters a relationship, so she qualifies on that score, as do Isabela and Fenris, assuming Hawke does not interfere.
So let's turn this upside-down, why don't you tell me everything you know about what the party members did over the course of six years that you would consider noteworthy.
I feel like I covered this above.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 20 janvier 2013 - 12:54 .
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