18 réponses à ce sujet

[OldTimeRadio]

I was playing on a server last night and noticed they'd used some deer I made in a recent custom content challenge.  As a CC maker who mostly contributes to the CCC when I do release something, it was a pleasant surprise to see something I'd made put to use.

I know a few servers regularly add new CC, either from the Vault/CCC or from their own in-house CC makers:
Aenea, Arbor Falls and Sinfar.

Are there any others or is that it?

Not sure how to define "regularly", but assuming something like at least twice in the last 12 months and have been up for at least six months for players to login to.  AFAIK, all three servers I mentioned fit that criteria.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 18 janvier 2013 - 09:24 .

[Lazarus Magni]

Depends on how you define custom content. If you mean something that needs to go in a Hak, we don't. If you mean a customization to the game, something that can be done server side only, and not require players to download anything (other than CEP), we do.

[OldTimeRadio]

Thanks, I've changed the topic to (hopefully) clarify that I mean new CC requiring additional/updated HAKs.

[BelowTheBelt]

As far as PWs go, every time you update your haks, you run the risk of losing people. In today's environment, every player is gold. When they are rejected from entering, things will get in the way of DLing hte new content, like they forget your website address and so can't find the new haks. Or, they only have 15 minutes to play and so go somewhere else and never return. It is the reality and as server owners, we have to understand and embrace it. Therefore, you have to minmize potential disruption.

I truly and firmly believe that cc is the way to go in the mature stage of NWN. So much great content and ideas. I salivate over what has been produced in the monthly challenges.

Unfortunately, you'll find a lot of servers have drawn a line in the sand with what they ask their community to download. For me, that line was based on what I felt was needed to support the story of Arenthyor, what was available at the time, and the combined file weight of all the haks (how much space am I asking players to download onto their computers.

Ultimately, you have to decide whether or not the risk of losing players is worth the change. What does the new content allow you to do that your old didn't? Better immersion? New functionality? Just plain cool?

I would wholeheartedly put in TONS more custom content if there were a community-driven auto-hak uploader that was adopted as a standard. Heads, creature reskins, clothing, weapons - the special things that players love as well as things that expand the game (e.g. the CEP weapons hak that allows weapon feats to be tied to CEP weapons)

My recommendation would be to create some form of custom-content community hak checker/uploader that the community (especially something the cc community) can rally around. Check for versions/filenames of haks and download new ones if different/missing. I believe at least a couple of those servers you mention have such things, which eases their ability to seamlessly introduce new content. However, most server owners don't have technical capability to develop such a tool.

An ideal would be to marry such functionality with an improved server-searching GameSpy replacement product. Find your servers and auto-download the haks in one place. One-stop-shop.

Do this and I think you would see an explosion of custom content throughout the PW community.

Modifié par BelowTheBelt, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:15 .

[Borrie BoBaka]

Since Contrition is in a Star Wars setting, practically nothing from the original game is actually usable in creation of our Module. We rely heavily on CC, mostly from in-house creation, but also on items from the vault (usually new tilesets and CEP2.3).

What has disappointed me is that there have been 365 unique accounts in our Server vault, 200 registered users on our forums, but only like 5 to 8 users on our server. I suspect the necessity to download content has turned away many users, and we have no other way to work around this. I've done a lot of advertising throughout many websites but very little newcomers flow in from this.

I like the ability to add new content but because of the hak requirements I try to restrict new hak content every 4 to 6 months, in the form of Hak Expansions. This also means that I need a significant amount of new content to justify creating a new hak for users to download. Thus, a lot of potentially good content gets the axe from the list of adding, if I can't add enough to justify it.

[Lazarus Magni]

Not to hijack your thread Oldtime, but just wanted to say... this:

BelowTheBelt wrote...

Unfortunately, you'll find a lot of servers have drawn a line in the sand with what they ask their community to download..

Is one of the biggest reasons the discontinuation of CEP development was so sad.... So many servers use it. It's a very simple, widely accepted method of a cross server hak. The discontinuation of its development (not to mention the disconnect between 2.3 [and below] and 2.4) really hurt.

[OldTimeRadio]

Well, yes, lots of topics related to this but I'm really just wondering about the core question.  Some of the points mentioned could easily stand as their own thread.

[henesua]

OTR are you only looking for servers that regularly update now, or are you also interested in servers that had a history of it?

[The Amethyst Dragon]

Yes, Aenea is a PW with regularly updated hak content.  Time between such updates typically ranges between 2 weeks and 2 months.

Players in my PW are used to this, and usually only update a single hak file (called, appropriately enough, "aeneahak_updates.hak") and sometimes the "aenea.tlk" file. Content for this comes from individual entries on the Vault, the CCC, and (mostly) things I make just because I want to.

Yes, the amount of stuff to download to start (CEP 2.4 + Project Q 1.5 + the Aenea files) obviously reduces the number of players that try out Aenea.  I accept that my PW will always have a smaller initial player base than ones with no haks or just CEP or Project Q.

I've found that players, once they get used to the idea of new content regularly coming out, have no real problem downloading an update every once in a while.

[OldTimeRadio]

@henesua - Looking for ones which are currently still doing it.  Updated the OP to clarify.

@Amethyst Dragon - I'm inclined to agree about users getting used to updating.  When CEP had their updater live, it didn't take me very long (as a player) to get used to running the updater once a week to make sure I had the latest stuff.  I had some good experiences logging into familiar servers which leveraged the new content to keep the main towns and well-trodden surrounding areas looking fresh, which I really enjoyed.

[kalbaern]

When I started my own PW 3 years ago, I initially added only the CEP, because it was easy to do and most players had it already. As building progressed, I added the CMP as well, since music would be an optional download for players and not a requirement to join the server. I'd also visited a good many other PWs over the years and decided that I really hated "cliffs" and liked the "slope" options I was seeing on many other PWs. So I added the old "JPX" Mountains to my PW. Even with the pathfinding issues I found, the visual asthetics I thought were worth it. I also stumbled upon Baba Yaga's "Spider Caves" and started caverns and underdark areas that I still use to this day.

Then, along came CEP 2.3 and the Bioware 1.69 Update, which broke most of the above haks for me. I just remade my JPX areas and avoided using the doorways in the Spider Cave Tiles that were now broke. Obviously, I had no clue how to fix the issues back then and my attempts to learn how met with frustration, mainly due to a lack of "How To's" to do it then. The CEP had however by then added in tileset expantions, which included slopes, so I was able to still make hills and even mountainous areas ... and, the pathfinding did improve, at least improved over my old JPX haks that is.

With each change, players complained, initially at least. Players balked at downloading the massively large CMP (music), but once a few did, the word spread about how fresh and new and fitting the music in areas was now and most if not everybody eventually added the music. Players also complained whenever the CEP was updated and they had to redownload it once again, but giving advanced warnings and making sure that the module had been updated to take advantage of new content helped motivate folks in the end.

Eventually, I stumbled upon some more tileset haks on NWN Vault, that had been updated for 1.69 and these worked pretty well alongside the CEP. Again folks complained, but ... by making areas and other things that added the content to my module in an update helped alot. Folks dislike having to download stuff constantly, but ... I've found that if you coincide it with an update that shows off the new "stuffs", most will grudgingly download more haks.

I've also seen a change in attitudes amongst my own core group of players over the past few years. Now, many of them crave more "stuffs". I've always craved more too. With GameSpy dropping their services for NWN, it also caused me some issues with keeping my PW up and visible. My host, while having great bandwidth, was serviced by a Provider that wouldn't provide Static IPs without a hefty fee added. My host was also absent, travelling for business, days to weeks at a time, and whenever the IP changed (yes, we'd tried port forwarding, but the IP changed too often still and ...) I decided to just host it myself. While setting up a new connection and server, I began looking here and on NWN Vault to see what I could add to make the downtime wait worthwhile. I made a fateful decision. I decided I'd spend some more time trying to figure out "How To" and merge/add alot of things not quite -out of the box- useable. Many folk here are responsible for my success now. Rolo, OTR and others either answered my queries or directed me to what I needed. When my PW relaunches this coming week, it'll not only use even more haks from NWN Vault, but contain a large portion of new stuff from the Monthly CCC here and benefits from merging a good many overrides into my haks as well. I've also made a custom TLK to address things like personal tweaks to classes, spells, feats, etc... so players won't need to refer to my forum or IG notices to find out how something "really" works on my PW. Everything (for the most part) will work as "described" in descriptions now.

Being sidetracked to add new haks and content has lengthened my PW's downtime from a few days to a few months now. I know it'll be worth it however. The confidence and skills I've gained the past few months won't be a onetime afare either. My plan will be to now update haks/tlks at least twice a year from here out, although it'll involve only updating/adding a single hak and not require massive downloads as in the past.

I also want to thank all the CCC contributors here. Seeing all of your cool creations was a big insperation and a motivation to expend some persperation and add most of your stuff to my PW.

[OldTimeRadio]

After reading Kalbaern's post I just wanted to briefly include an interesting tidbit that I just came across: The generic version of the update utility that CEP wound up using can be found here on the Vault.  I don't have much more information than that, but if anyone is genuinely trying to use it, drop me a PM and I might be able to offer some feeble assistance.

Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 21 janvier 2013 - 06:47 .

[DM_Vecna]

I am adding your deer as we speak to nordock awakening. I try to do two gal updates a year so as not to overwhelm players with updates. 

Modifié par DM_Vecna, 22 janvier 2013 - 03:30 .

[Zarathustra217]

I'd say twice a year has fitted our cycle pretty well since launch (6½ years ago). We used to synchronize our hak updates with the CEP, but that approach might not be viable any more, since the CEP updates have become so long in between.

Anyone know if the CCC content will be added to future CEP updates though?

[The Amethyst Dragon]

Zarathustra217 wrote...
Anyone know if the CCC content will be added to future CEP updates though?

Can't speak for the CEP team, but a version 2.5 has been mentioned on the CEP forum.  I know that I and one or two others have specifically given CEP and Project Q permission to use our CCC stuff, I just don't know when/if it will be included.

Modifié par The Amethyst Dragon, 28 janvier 2013 - 08:57 .

[Elvamir]

At World of Caenyr we use mainly custom content, with the exception of some awesome haks designed by the CTP team.  However, we've found over recent years with broadband being widely the norm as compared to the early years, that it doesn't really detract players like it once did.

To simplify it even further, however, we utlize Tanita's Worldgate. This is an AWESOME program for managing hak updates, so when we make changes players don't have to redownload entire haks, the just run this program and it updates their haks by downloading and installing only the files within them that were altered. Very simple system and saves a lot of time for the players. Highly recommend it for anyone using custom content!

[Shadooow]

Elvamir wrote...

To simplify it even further, however, we utlize Tanita's Worldgate. This is an AWESOME program for managing hak updates, so when we make changes players don't have to redownload entire haks, the just run this program and it updates their haks by downloading and installing only the files within them that were altered. Very simple system and saves a lot of time for the players. Highly recommend it for anyone using custom content!

+1 for worldgate, i also use it for NWN1 PW and my players dont have any issues with additional content

Its therefore odd that there is a new initiative to make a hak autodownloader (and then use that new one) when a suitable autodownloader already exists. Maybe not perfect but I managed to put together a worldgate archive containing my PW paths etc. so player only need to unpack it and click update.

[painofdungeoneternal]

WorldGate is something I used for our PW before the AutoDownloader, it's from back in 2008 and requires some technical expertise to use, not a lot. ( there also was another one that was similar ) And I can say it was wonderful for what it does, but I used to do the hand holding of helping end users get our content, and reminding them to go run it. I actually first developed Never Launcher while using World Gate, mainly to merge content and assemble the content for my PW ( "dex2" ), and dealing with continual version updates.

My project is not aimed at a technical issue, like downloading, like launching, like fixing gamespy, my project is aimed at players who do not want to think, to enable them to just hit "play" and get in game. I am intending on doing all the work for the player, and for the author/PW admin make it support whatever current process they are using, even if that means supporting WorldGate by downloading it and configuring the download url, but then that seems like it will add another step for the player, will probably just have to recreate how it works .

I imagine some PW's will want to set things up to support what I am doing, others won't, but the trick to making things easy is to make it so from the player perspective, regardless of whether they want to play on a PW, play a Single player module from the vault, or if they want 30 different sets of custom content for use in their SP game, they can just select what they want and hit play, and for it to just work regardless.

WorldGate is aimed at a downloader for your PW, my goal is a downloader for ALL PW's, and Single player, and includes version control / merging of Vault content. It's overall design is more like the Nexus Module Manager in scope, except it's actually going to support those who use mac's as well ( which tends to not happen with most of these tools ), and it can merge 2da's, tlk's, erf's, hak's, compile scripts, and whatever other work is required of the player beyond just hitting "play".

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 03 mars 2013 - 03:55 .

[Elvamir]

That definitely sounds very awesome, bro!!! Definitely wasn't suggesting your efforts are a waste of time, hope you didn't take it that way. Was just commenting on the discussion about whether or not custom content detracts from players by explaining the way we manage that issue at World of Caenyr. I love the idea of a program that makes the process thinkless. We do have to post and remind people to run Worldgate, so something like you suggest would be a great improvement.