593 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

Annomander wrote...

And what do the krogan do in the lore? Headbutt stuff. Smash it. MMMMRRRAAAAAHHH it. Break it into pieces with their bare hands.

Lol! 

HolyAvenger wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks its OK that melee builds shouldn't be that viable in a scifi shooter?






Probably.

Tell that to the Jedi.

 

Midichlorians:sick:

... Am I the only one who thought midichlorians weren't that bad?  I mean yeah, leaving the Force without an explanation would have been better. Nothing to argue there. But among possible explanations... That wasn't that bad.

Modifié par Deerber, 18 janvier 2013 - 02:36 .

[HolyAvenger]

Yes, so many melee Krogan Shepard fought in the SP campaigns...wait a minute!

Agree with you Feneckus that melee infiltrators are broken.

However, whoever fights krogan tends to know they weigh a ton and brings appropriate weaponry. Krogans are shock troops and close quarters specialists yes, but not primarily melee combatants. It makes sense to me that the best builds are shotgun-grenadiers. Krogans looking to purely melee are fools and should be eaten.


Edit: Yeah don't even get me started on ninja-b1tches and their swords... 

Modifié par HolyAvenger, 18 janvier 2013 - 02:38 .

[mpompeo27]

megabeast37215 wrote...

Some players feel the need to engage in 'honorable, sporting combat' with the enemy for some reason... most of these players are on PC.

It's pretty stupid IMO.... it's stupid along the same lines as Gentleman's Combat was stupid hundreds of years ago (guys in bright uniforms standing right in front of each other all lined up shooting/reloading muskets).

I actually want to say that Gentleman's Combat was not stupid at all because it meant that there were virtually no civilian casualties or collateral damage which is the big issue with modern warfare. It might seem silly to wage war in the fashion of a turn based RPG, but it went a long way towards preventing non-military deaths and making sure battles and wars didn't run on perpetually like we see now since there were more distinct winners and losers.

[xtorma]

Cyonan wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...
They would if they were effective with low skill but there were high skill strategies that paid of better if you could pull them off. Instead, a GI will always have the greatest damage output. A TGI will always have great survivability. The Harrier will always be awesome. This game doesn't have anything that's easy to use but ultimately worse than some other strategy. There are just crutch classes that are unambiguously easier AND more effective than others.

I don't really see how the GI is a crutch.

If an unskilled player tries to use him on a higher difficulty they just end up dying over and over.

I keep thinking about the drell adept, and how he is so very good, if you have the skill to execute properly.

[Crimson Vanguard]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Yes, so many melee Krogan Shepard fought in the SP campaigns...wait a minute!

Agree with you Feneckus that melee infiltrators are broken.

However, whoever fights krogan tends to know they weigh a ton and brings appropriate weaponry. Krogans are shock troops and close quarters specialists yes, but not primarily melee combatants. It makes sense to me that the best builds are shotgun-grenadiers. Krogans looking to purely melee are fools and should be eaten.

No Krogan in this game, above Silver you have to play like little ****** instead of bathing in enemies blood and laugh at their fire. Except the Kroguard.

[BACON4BREAKFAST]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Am I the only one who thinks its OK that melee builds shouldn't be that viable in a scifi shooter?






Probably.

They are completely viable for Gold. You just have to be smart about when and where you engage enemies. Granted you wont be doing the same amount of damage as (Insert OP class here) if an equally skilled player was using it. But if you know what you're doing you will easily dominate all the scrubs using a TGI w/ Harrier. Not saying that I wouldn't mind if they made melee characters more viable all around, but I kind of like that almost nobody else is using melee builds.

For Platinum it's probably not a great idea due to the prevelance of bosses/sync kill units, but I don't play a lot of Platinum so I wouldn't know.

[Blarg]

Deerber wrote...
... Am I the only one who thought midichlorians weren't that bad?  I mean yeah, leaving the Force without an explanation would have been better. Nothing to argue there. But among possible explanations... That wasn't that bad.

Yeah, you are. It seemed like just an amped up biology lesson with telekinesis. Even the space magic explanation for biotics was better.
Even just saying Jedi could see in the fourth or fifth or sixth (and so on) dimension would have been better.

[Feneckus]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Yes, so many melee Krogan Shepard fought in the SP campaigns...wait a minute!

Grunt can be seen meleeing several Ravagers in the SP campaign.

Try doing that with a non-vanguard Krogan 

[lightswitch]

xtorma wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...
They would if they were effective with low skill but there were high skill strategies that paid of better if you could pull them off. Instead, a GI will always have the greatest damage output. A TGI will always have great survivability. The Harrier will always be awesome. This game doesn't have anything that's easy to use but ultimately worse than some other strategy. There are just crutch classes that are unambiguously easier AND more effective than others.

I don't really see how the GI is a crutch.

If an unskilled player tries to use him on a higher difficulty they just end up dying over and over.

I keep thinking about the drell adept, and how he is so very good, if you have the skill to execute properly.

...and the Fury...and the Drellguard...and the TSol...and the Paladin...and the Valkyrie...and the Slayer...need I go on?

Also, re: Krogans, melee, and lore, Krogans were effective fighters not because of amazing survivability in melee range, but because their reproductive capacity was capable of handling the attrition. Even supposing they were killing Rachni in the tunnels with only their hands they were dying by the thousands doing it.

[CC-Tron]

ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame wrote...

Best part is the only ones that can use these "crutch" characters to the point forum goes whine that they're "OP" are people that have used these "crutch" characters long enough to fully understand them.

Bingo. Best answer in the thread.

[Cyonan]

lightswitch wrote...

Also, re: Krogans, melee, and lore, Krogans were effective fighters not because of amazing survivability in melee range, but because their reproductive capacity was capable of handling the attrition. Even supposing they were killing Rachni in the tunnels with only their hands they were dying by the thousands doing it.

The Krogan are actually known for having redundant organs, which makes them significantly tougher to kill.

Nothing I'm aware of suggests that they're melee focused fighters in the lore. Just that every Krogan we fight in SP attempts to run up and melee us.

Krogan in ME1 could 1 shot you if they hit you in melee on higher difficulties.

[Rapidfire Widow]

Cyonan wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Also, re: Krogans, melee, and lore, Krogans were effective fighters not because of amazing survivability in melee range, but because their reproductive capacity was capable of handling the attrition. Even supposing they were killing Rachni in the tunnels with only their hands they were dying by the thousands doing it.

The Krogan are actually known for having redundant organs, which makes them significantly tougher to kill.

Nothing I'm aware of suggests that they're melee focused fighters in the lore. Just that every Krogan we fight in SP attempts to run up and melee us.

Krogan in ME1 could 1 shot you if they hit you in melee on higher difficulties.

In ME1: oh gawd he's charging me! Singularity come off timer singularity come off... Noooooo I have to do that 5 minute fight all over again... Dear Lord what is he doing to my body? It's here... And there.... Now it's on the ceiling, oh the humanity.

Modifié par Rapidfire Widow, 18 janvier 2013 - 03:02 .

[Turian Shep N7]

if you don't like crutch characters then just play solo, you will never run into anyone else messing up your playstyle and you can be as awesome as you like with whatever class you want.

[Rapidfire Widow]

Also I live in Australia so me using a TGI in terms of survivability is like one of you yanks using a stock human soldier. Thinking of changing my go to class to kroguard just so I'm not so cheap. Sirian, can you give a fellow aussie with Stone Age internet any advice? I needs it.

[Muhkida]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Rapidfire Widow wrote...

Also I live in Australia so me using a TGI in terms of survivability is like one of you yanks using a stock human soldier. Thinking of changing my go to class to kroguard just so I'm not so cheap. Sirian, can you give a fellow aussie with Stone Age internet any advice? I needs it.

 

Errr. Just anticipate damage, know that enemies will shoot you around corners, that TC will not work at all in terms of cloaking you, and modify your behaviour accordingly. For example, go into soft/hard cover when you're at half/1/4 shields instead of when you get shieldgated.

Also never use pure power classes (classes that require you to spam 2 powers), vanguards, or anything that has travel time (projectile weapons, incinerate, throw, etc.) off host. 

If you expect the game to be ultra laggy... put on a cyclonic to give yourself some breathing room.

Dat bandwidth cap:mellow:

[dday3six]

Nothing some people simply want to tell others how to play based on how they want the game to be "balanced".

[Bechter]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Elitists get pissy if you tie or overtake their score.

Apart from that depends on how much of a noob you really are.

 

Ehh... they're crutch characters because they have extremely high survivability, not because they allow people to score ultra high. The problem is not with "elitists"  it is with mediocre players who struggle big time on Gold/Plat. They see other people of similar skill level using these classes and not struggling (due to their high survivability) and then complain about them being overpowered.

I've seen a few Players/posters in this thread that are not medicore yet are complaining about characters being overpowered and have a negative view towards players that use any character they label as crutch/noob/insert title desired. This discussion wasn't even about balance but they turned it into a debate about it just to justify their elitist view and try to charade it under the guise of balance.

They have compare Crutch character players to missle glitches, the turian ghost not worry of their grenade refils, Flamer is just an eyesore that doesn't allow them to aim, and many more i can pick out if i would like to waste 10 minutes going back through this thread.

You yourself are a skilled player who defends the geth inf. Who has been targeting by balances more than any other character in the game. I know you have more sensible take on the matter and aren't on the side of the posters who have been targeted in this thread as elitists.

The main argument from posters like feneckus annomander, and doriac is this characters/playstyles don't fit their personal moral, eithical, and/or view of what is fun. They talk about logic, balace, and enjoyment but its all with respect to how it would affect them and take zero consideration into what it would do to others.

The flipside would be someone coming on here complaining and refusing to play with players who do not use the most effiecient characters, builds, and weapons. Which I don't agree with either. Players in a co-op have no moral contract that states they must dictate their playstyle or character choice with regards to their teammates. As long as they are playing within rules of the game i.e. not hacking or exploiting banable glitches or intentionaly griefing someone people should be allowed to enjoy the game as they please. If people can't handle this thats what friendlist are for and find some like minded individuals who share your values but don't complain about pugs not conforming to you.

I know not all balancers are elitists

I know not all "crutch' classes are played by noobs

but if you look at most of the posts that what both sides of the arguement try to devolve the discussion into.

Modifié par Bechter, 18 janvier 2013 - 05:05 .

[LightSabres]

Flambrose wrote...

Strongwater wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Strongwater wrote...

That damn Harrier.  My first UR weapon, and my first to III (besides the Valkyrie), and I still can't use it the way I hear it described.  I think I just am not good at ARs. =/

No its because most of our AR's suck compared to the other weapons we have. The Harrier is literally the only AR anyone bothers talking about- but heh- call me super stupid I'll take my Avenger X over it  

PPR.

Oops..forgot about that one 

Saber is a pretty good AR as well but I always consider it a sniper rifle. Typhoon on certain characters as well.

<- has none of the ARs being mentioned in this pyramid ):

Mattock. 4th best AR in the game... and everyone has it

The only one they are talking about that I have is the Mattock.  It and the Locust are the only guns I use.

[Feneckus]

Bechter wrote...

This discussion wasn't even about balance but they turned it into a debate about it just to justify their elitist view and try to charade it under the guise of balance.

Sorry. It totally makes sense that infiltrators are the best soldiers.

And the best engineers.

And the best melee fighters.

And the toughest to kill.

Silly me. I'm just pissed because a PUG outscored me, ignore my pathetic attempt at having a discussion based on facts 

[Titus Thongger]

my krogan sentinel melees just fine on gold thank you. I do have to be a bit more selective on plat but I still can get the 25 melee medal on plat if I try hard enough

[Cyonan]

Feneckus wrote...
Sorry. It totally makes sense that infiltrators are the best soldiers.

And the best engineers.

And the best melee fighters.

And the toughest to kill.

Silly me. I'm just pissed because a PUG outscored me, ignore my pathetic attempt at having a discussion based on facts 

Infiltrators are tougher to kill than a character that takes only 10% damage and regenerate shields every 4 seconds?

They also out tech damage the N7 Paladin?

You play a very odd version of Mass Effect 3.

[Bechter]

Feneckus wrote...

Bechter wrote...

This discussion wasn't even about balance but they turned it into a debate about it just to justify their elitist view and try to charade it under the guise of balance.

Sorry. It totally makes sense that infiltrators are the best soldiers.

And the best engineers.

And the best melee fighters.

And the toughest to kill.

Silly me. I'm just pissed because a PUG outscored me, ignore my pathetic attempt at having a discussion based on facts 

Please find a quote of me stating that PUG outscoring you has anything to do with this discussion. I'm not sure you understand what a fact is or the definition of logic.

I have never once argued anything about balance. The characters balance is irrelevent to this discussion. If i agreed with you that inf and kroguards are overpowered (which i have never weighed in on one way or the other) I still wouldn't agree with your views towards players who play those classes, especially with the reasons you have stated previously.

Let me ask you this

What does a pug's character choice have to do with you?

Do you check in and OK your character choice, build, and playstyle with every pug you come across?

Modifié par Bechter, 18 janvier 2013 - 04:21 .