593 réponses à ce sujet

[Bechter]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Incidentally, could we please stop throwing the word "elitist" around like it's going out of fashion?

I'm starting to think this website is sponsored by Fox News.

How about hipster or contrarian?

Modifié par Bechter, 18 janvier 2013 - 04:24 .

[HeroicMass]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Incidentally, could we please stop throwing the word "elitist" around like it's going out of fashion?

I'm starting to think this website is sponsored by Fox News.

its no worse than the horrible misuse of the word "epic" in today's society. It always pains me when dictionaries adopt a new meaning to a word once it is used incorrectly for so long that it becomes commonplace. 

[Feneckus]

Bechter wrote...

Please find a quote of me stating that PUG outscoring or anything of that nature.

You didn't say that. But it's usually BSN's explanation of why some people care about balance. It can't be because of rational thoughts, it's gotta be about some childish behavior. I mean, the third reply of this thread was "Elitists get pissy if you tie or overtake their score." and several morons agreed with that. I wasn't talking to you specifically when I wrote that.

Bechter wrote...

The characters balance is irrelevent to this discussion.

Yes it is. You implied the whole balance argument was just a facade so I could show off my elitism. Because once again, having rational thoughts and coming to a conclusion is somehow a crime. It's gotta be about some childish behavior.

What does a pug's character choice have to do with you?

Because too many people playing infiltrators have led to nerfs, which directly impact me. I love the Geth Engineer. I love the Havoc. But guess what ? PUGs using nothing but the OP kits have made those classes weaker, when they were either perfectly fine (GE) or underpowered (Havoc).

Bechter wrote...

Do you check in and OK your character choice, build, and playstyle with every pug you come across?

Just because I think some classes screw the balance of the game does not mean I'm a jerk.

[Zero132132]

Feneckus wrote...

Bechter wrote...

This discussion wasn't even about balance but they turned it into a debate about it just to justify their elitist view and try to charade it under the guise of balance.

Sorry. It totally makes sense that infiltrators are the best soldiers.

And the best engineers.

And the best melee fighters.

And the toughest to kill.

Silly me. I'm just pissed because a PUG outscored me, ignore my pathetic attempt at having a discussion based on facts 

They aren't the best engineers, IMO. Most have one real tech power and a debuff. They also can't be the best soldiers, engineers, and melee fighters without giving up that survivability, which every single pro-nerf discussion leaves out completely.

[Pyroninja42]

I cannot help but read that title as "Crotch characters".

[SilentBacon]

Lol, I'd like to see someone that can consistently out do me when I'm using a roughly equivalent class. Yeah sure I'm using a raptor to get challenges, ill still come <10k from 1st. If I don't take 1st. All these "omg celeb, ride his nuts" lmao. Priceless. Bravo. Round of applause please. K thanks.

Ego mode done. Doesn't matter what class they use, you can help the team by providing adequate firepower/powers, or you just eat the ground half the game, if your using a considered by people "op" class and do little if anything, you should lower your difficulty.. End story.

Modifié par SilentBacon, 18 janvier 2013 - 05:38 .

[The Renegade Fem-Shep]

Its the skill and experience of the player with any given kit not the kit itself that makes them good. This is common knowledge. What people do complain about is when a kit is unbalanced in terms of having too many advantages without enough disadvantages to balance them. The TGI, Shadow, Kroguard, old Demolisher, GI, DI, etc all fall into this category. I use them all because I enjoy them just as much as any other kit but it is quite obvious they aren't very balanced.

[Distilled Poison]

They aren't the best engineers

The TGI and SI do more damage with their tech powers than their Engineer counterparts do, without even specing for power damage. On top of that, cool downs are never an issue. That is a far superior Engineer.

They also can't be the best soldiers, engineers, and melee fighters without giving up that survivability

In what way do they give up survivability? Barring melee builds, which goes with the territory, of course. TGI and SI are top tier tanks. This reminds me how shortly after ME3's launch I posted a thread proposing that the Salarian Infiltrator was a better tank than either Krogan. This was of course pre-balance changes, pre-DLc, etc, when the Carnifex was god, everyone wanted 200% cooldown on everything, etc. I was clearly ahead of the curve, pointing out the SI had rechargable shields, damage resistance, mobility, aggro dumping, and crowd control debuffing. The response was "NUH UH KROGANS MWARHAHA!"

Infiltrators are better soldiers.

[Feneckus]

Zero132132 wrote...

They aren't the best engineers, IMO.

TGI's overload > Human/Geth Engineer's overload
SI's energy drain > SE/Paladin's energy drain
GI/SI Proxy mine > Volus Engineer's proxy mine
FQI's Sabotage > Turian Engineer's Sabotage
QMI's Arc Grenades > QME's Arc Grenades
QMI's Tac Scan > QME's Tac Scan
Infidrell's recon mine and homing grenades > Volus Engineer's recon mine and Turian Engineer/Demolisher's homing grenades

All this without even speccing for power damage.

They also can't be the best soldiers, engineers, and melee fighters without giving up that survivability, which every single pro-nerf discussion leaves out completely.

What ?

[lightswitch]

Personally, I would rather see the powers of all the non-infiltrators get a buff than see the power damage boost from Tac Cloak removed.

Actually, a partial nerf to the power damage boost from TC would probably be necessary to avoid completely wrecking the game balance. But half the joy of the Drell Infiltrator is that it doesn't matter how you spec him. Power builds, weapon builds, melee builds, he can do it all. I would hate to see that taken away completely when weapons are already so dominant.

Engineers should have either been designed with a power boosting power or had better passives in the first place.

[MajorStupidity]

Wow this reached 14 pages... couldn't make it past page 8 too many attempts at a reasonable discussion turning into an insult-fest.

I thought it was established that this game is incapable of being perfectly balanced due to how the mechanics were designed and how limited the AI is.

Modifié par MajorStupidity, 18 janvier 2013 - 07:18 .

[Xaijin]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Incidentally, could we please stop throwing the word "elitist" around like it's going out of fashion?

I'm starting to think this website is sponsored by Fox News.

Nope. It pretty much fits, and in the completely negative aspect to boot.

[Xaijin]

Pyroninja42 wrote...

I cannot help but read that title as "Crotch characters".

Would have been a much better thread by far.

[FlowCytometry]

Xaijin wrote...

Pyroninja42 wrote...

I cannot help but read that title as "Crotch characters".

Would have been a much better thread by far.

well, if you always aim for that part on an atlas or a banshee..

i46.tinypic.com/2hqf4w9.jpg

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:10 .

[Astronaughte]

More like CLUTCH charecters.

I dunno if its been said I refuse to read all posts.

[stormrider1012]

Feneckus wrote...

Bechter wrote...

Please find a quote of me stating that PUG outscoring or anything of that nature.

You didn't say that. But it's usually BSN's explanation of why some people care about balance. It can't be because of rational thoughts, it's gotta be about some childish behavior. I mean, the third reply of this thread was "Elitists get pissy if you tie or overtake their score." and several morons agreed with that. I wasn't talking to you specifically when I wrote that.

Bechter wrote...

The characters balance is irrelevent to this discussion.

Yes it is. You implied the whole balance argument was just a facade so I could show off my elitism. Because once again, having rational thoughts and coming to a conclusion is somehow a crime. It's gotta be about some childish behavior.

What does a pug's character choice have to do with you?

Because too many people playing infiltrators have led to nerfs, which directly impact me. I love the Geth Engineer. I love the Havoc. But guess what ? PUGs using nothing but the OP kits have made those classes weaker, when they were either perfectly fine (GE) or underpowered (Havoc).

Bechter wrote...

Do you check in and OK your character choice, build, and playstyle with every pug you come across?

Just because I think some classes screw the balance of the game does not mean I'm a jerk.

But aren't majority of these Bioware's fault? Why look down on the players just picking the class they want to play that are perfectly within the current parameters of the game? Are you saying we must always play the way you "believe" to be proper and only with the classes you approve of  so as not to hinder your enjoyment of the game? Even if I totally agree with your rational conclusion about the balancing of this game (I read your infiltrator post months ago btw) The way you put these issues on the players' plate as if they are the one's ruining it for you just doesn't make sense. I agree with the majority of your points but telling other players how they should play just doesn't seem right.

Modifié par stormrider1012, 18 janvier 2013 - 09:22 .

[darkpassenger2342]

you will find disdain for op classes on every forum of every game that has them.

especially ones that preach balance.

i say this objectively, as i dont care what classes people play.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 18 janvier 2013 - 09:21 .

[robarcool]

Feneckus wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Yes, so many melee Krogan Shepard fought in the SP campaigns...wait a minute!

Grunt can be seen meleeing several Ravagers in the SP campaign.

Try doing that with a non-vanguard Krogan 

Yeah, totally absurd example. The same mighty grunt couldn't handle a few abominations in ME2 when played from our side. He can headbutt because he is in cutscene and not a squadmate in ME3.

Modifié par robarcool, 18 janvier 2013 - 09:20 .

[Mindfane]

I always tend to use my favorite(in other words OP) classes for Gold+. mainly because I don't want to become a burden. Secondly, I am looking for fun (and credits) not challenge (I have plenty of that in real-life)

[Ronnie Blastoff]

I don't care about "crutch" characters, I care about garbage azz players playing in higher difficulties than they belong because of "crutch" characters.

These crutch characters are making people think they can "get by" in platinum or gold when realisticly when their plans fail or they are unable to use the main "spam" to get by, shyt hits the fan and they fail again and again and again and AGAIN and AGAIN....

Krogan Vanguards, Charging replenishes shields, ask a nub what happens in they can't get their shields back, what happens if they already were shieldgated by a scion, and a praetorian starts wailing on them. They have an answer, ****in phail.

This doesn't just apply to characters, old FBWGG counter farming and rio platinum boxing are in the same group. When either a hack had to take place outside the camp zones, or something came along and tested the main strategies, people who had no idea how to play the game in gold who were in gold literally because of a power/strategy/ or CRUTCH would fail almost everytime.

[Derp88]

Ronnie Blastoff wrote...

I don't care about "crutch" characters, I care about garbage azz players playing in higher difficulties than they belong because of "crutch" characters.

These crutch characters are making people think they can "get by" in platinum or gold when realisticly when their plans fail or they are unable to use the main "spam" to get by, shyt hits the fan and they fail again and again and again and AGAIN and AGAIN....

Krogan Vanguards, Charging replenishes shields, ask a nub what happens in they can't get their shields back, what happens if they already were shieldgated by a scion, and a praetorian starts wailing on them. They have an answer, ****in phail.

This doesn't just apply to characters, old FBWGG counter farming and rio platinum boxing are in the same group. When either a hack had to take place outside the camp zones, or something came along and tested the main strategies, people who had no idea how to play the game in gold who were in gold literally because of a power/strategy/ or CRUTCH would fail almost everytime.

I do agree it can give people false confidence. But the only way they're gonna learn is if people give them tips. Crutch classes, strategies is a way of easing inexperienced players into higher difficulties. Some are not willing to learn from failures, or keep clinging onto crutches for the most effective farming methods. If thats their idea of fun, so be it. It's their right to play the game that way. All we can do is try and offer friendly advice to strengthen the MP community.