593 réponses à ce sujet

[Bechter]

Geek Fest wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Geek Fest wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Geek Fest wrote...

It is the statement that the rest of the teammates will get a better debuff too that is causing the confusion here.

I didn't say the rest of the team. I said the ENTIRE team. Meaning YOU + your teammates. Your teammates will get the same debuff. However, since you get more out of the debuff as a MQI, it is a better debuff for the entire team, since you're part of it.

Yes that is true. You did say entire team and that would include the player that used tac scan. The rest the team wouldn't factor into the thatl I'm not sure you included them. Certainly you can see how this could be interpreted differently.

It's downright misleading is what it is.

Either that or he misunderstood the game mechanic when he wrote that but doesn't have the balls to admit it.

Well it is certainly ambiguous. The "entire team" could mean every individual player on the team is doing more damage or as a group they do more damage. If he meant the latter he isn't wrong just not clear.

He also compared it to the damage bonus tac scan receives from tac cloak  to proxy mine, overload, and arc grenades but we are all the fools here. <_<

Modifié par Bechter, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:37 .

[unclemonster]

Feneckus wrote...

It is not a better debuff per se. It's the same power.

However, since it's a multiplicative debuff, it will buff not only your weapon/power damage but it will also buff Tactical Cloak's damage bonus, so it does actually debuff more on the MQI. You will do more extra damage with Arc Grenades and weapons. The debuff will be more effective. So it is a better power on the MQI. Take a look at Anno's maths. It's not the exact numbers but the logic is there. Send a PM to Peddro or something if you don't believe us.

Yes, but if it cast by a QME or QMS and you are a QMI...
it will be the EXACT same no matter who casts the tac scan...it doesn't matter...
tacscan=tac scan  NOT QMI tac scan>QME tac scan

[NuclearTech76]

Would the extra debuff only apply while in cloak? I guess the debuff is calculated when it is cast and remains the same throughout the cycle.

[Bechter]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Would the extra debuff only apply while in cloak? I guess the debuff is calculated when it is cast and remains the same throughout the cycle.

He was wrong nuclear don't listen to his nonsense.

[lightswitch]

Geek Fest wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Geek Fest wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Geek Fest wrote...

It is the statement that the rest of the teammates will get a better debuff too that is causing the confusion here.

I didn't say the rest of the team. I said the ENTIRE team. Meaning YOU + your teammates. Your teammates will get the same debuff. However, since you get more out of the debuff as a MQI, it is a better debuff for the entire team, since you're part of it.

Yes that is true. You did say entire team and that would include the player that used tac scan. The rest the team wouldn't factor into the thatl I'm not sure you included them. Certainly you can see how this could be interpreted differently.

It's downright misleading is what it is.

Either that or he misunderstood the game mechanic when he wrote that but doesn't have the balls to admit it.

Well it is certainly ambiguous. The entire team could mean every individual player on the team is doing more damage or as a group they do more damage. If he meant the latter he isn't wrong just not clear.

No, it's not ambigous at all. He doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point. If the only one getting a larger damage bonus from TS is the MQI because of TC, then the obvious, clear way to state that is the MQI does more damage. There's no reason to drag 'the team' into it, it's blatantly apparent how that would cloud the example and mislead the reader. I have no choice but to assume he either originally misunderstood how the debuff worked when cast from cloak, or was deliberately trying to mislead us in support of his argument.

Modifié par lightswitch, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:45 .

[JumboWheat01]

Sounds like the good ol' "Long Sword Hate" of the Monster Hunter series. I could frankly care less how and what people play so long as they enjoy it and don't purposely detract from my enjoyment.

[unclemonster]

lightswitch wrote...

Geek Fest wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Geek Fest wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Geek Fest wrote...

It is the statement that the rest of the teammates will get a better debuff too that is causing the confusion here.

I didn't say the rest of the team. I said the ENTIRE team. Meaning YOU + your teammates. Your teammates will get the same debuff. However, since you get more out of the debuff as a MQI, it is a better debuff for the entire team, since you're part of it.

Yes that is true. You did say entire team and that would include the player that used tac scan. The rest the team wouldn't factor into the thatl I'm not sure you included them. Certainly you can see how this could be interpreted differently.

It's downright misleading is what it is.

Either that or he misunderstood the game mechanic when he wrote that but doesn't have the balls to admit it.

Well it is certainly ambiguous. The entire team could mean every individual player on the team is doing more damage or as a group they do more damage. If he meant the latter he isn't wrong just not clear.

No, it's not ambigous at all. If the only one getting a larger damage bonus from TS is the MQI, then the obvious, clear way to state that is the MQI does more damage. There's no reason to drag 'the team' into it, it blatantly apparent how that would cloud the example and mislead the reader. I have no choice but to assume he either originally misunderstood how the debuff worked when cast from cloak, or was trying to mislead us in support of his argument.

the obvious answer is:

tac scan=tac scan NOT
MQI tac scan > MQE tac scan...  

that is what started this whole debate...
I am sorry I opened that can of worms

I was honestly just trying to learn something new as I love understanding the numbers and mechanics of the game.
I was wondering if I had been doing it wrong as I normally tac scan, then cloak (avoid the 3 second cooldown)
if debuff had cloak bonus, I would have been doing it wrong

oh well, excitement over now!!

[Bechter]

Sadly were are all doing it wrong

Modifié par Bechter, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:46 .

[HolyAvenger]

Ziegrif wrote...

20 pages.

And absolutely NOTHING was achieved.

Bravo!

 

I proposed an alternate TC build for future games:whistle:

[robarcool]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

20 pages.

And absolutely NOTHING was achieved.

Bravo!

 

I proposed an alternate TC build for future games:whistle:

What?

[Feneckus]

Bechter wrote...

Please explian the extra benefits (Debuff Specefic) my teammates get from tac scan whether i cast it from the MQE, MQI (Uncloaked), or MQI (Cloaked)?

There's none. Please don't play stupid. You know exactly what I'm trying to say.

[lightswitch]

Ziegrif wrote...

20 pages.

And absolutely NOTHING was achieved.

Bravo!

Actually, I would argue the character and mettle of those who hate 'crutch' kits has been clearly revealed for the benefit of all.

Modifié par lightswitch, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:51 .

[Bechter]

Feneckus wrote...

Bechter wrote...

Please explian the extra benefits (Debuff Specefic) my teammates get from tac scan whether i cast it from the MQE, MQI (Uncloaked), or MQI (Cloaked)?

There's none. Please don't play stupid. You know exactly what I'm trying to say.

I glad that I have been upgraded from stupid to just playing stupid in your eyes. I'll take that as a complement. I fear that there is zero reasoning with you.

I have come to conclusion that there is 3 ways we have gone down this path

 

Option 1-You inaccurately stated your original argument. (yet refuse to admit that and we are at fault)



Option 2-You misunderstood the mechanic as it was compared incorrectly and explained wrong.



Option 3-You deliberately misrepresented your argument to achieve your desired results.


take your pick

Modifié par Bechter, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:58 .

[HolyAvenger]

robarcool wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

20 pages.

And absolutely NOTHING was achieved.

Bravo!

 

I proposed an alternate TC build for future games:whistle:

What?

 

I'd redesign TC, something like this:

Rank 4: Weapon Damage 25% or Power Damage 25%
Rank 5: Recharge Speed 50% (a big buff) or Movement Speed 25%
Rank 6: Duration 100% or Bonus Power

TC would not override the CD of other powers. Using a power from within TC would trigger the CD of the other power (unless you took the rank 6 bonus power evo). Also immediately breaking TC upon shooting would not trigger the minimum 3 sec CD, but the actual CD based on whatever your weapon is and how heavy it is.


Numbers open to change of course.

[Feneckus]

Bechter wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Bechter wrote...

Please explian the extra benefits (Debuff Specefic) my teammates get from tac scan whether i cast it from the MQE, MQI (Uncloaked), or MQI (Cloaked)?

There's none. Please don't play stupid. You know exactly what I'm trying to say.

I glad that I have been upgraded from stupid to just playing stupid in your eyes. I'll take that as a complement. I fear that there is zero reasoning with you.

I have come to conclusion that there is 3 ways we have gone down this path

 

Option 1-You inaccurately stated your original argument. (yet refuse to admit that and we are at fault)



Option 2-You misunderstood the mechanic as it was compared incorrectly and explained wrong.



Option 3-You deliberately misrepresented your argument to achieve your desired results.


take your pick

Option 4 : You didn't understand what I was trying to say and if you want to you should PM Peddro or any other math guy who could explain it better than I do. I've done the best I could.

[Cyonan]

HolyAvenger wrote...
I'd redesign TC, something like this:

Rank 4: Weapon Damage 25% or Power Damage 25%
Rank 5: Recharge Speed 50% (a big buff) or Movement Speed 25%
Rank 6: Duration 100% or Bonus Power

TC would not override the CD of other powers. Using a power from within TC would trigger the CD of the other power (unless you took the rank 6 bonus power evo). Also immediately breaking TC upon shooting would not trigger the minimum 3 sec CD, but the actual CD based on whatever your weapon is and how heavy it is.


Numbers open to change of course.

The problem with all the Tactical Cloak redesigns is that you can't just redesign Tactical Cloak.

People are designing them around the idea that the TGI and GI will be balanced with it, but not all Infiltrators are on the same level as the TGI and GI.

It would be like me trying to balance BEs for the Human Adept around how powerful the Drell Adept is. It just doesn't work because the Drell Adept is so incredibly potent due to Cluster Grenades, which the Human Adept doesn't have.

[Feneckus]

lightswitch wrote...

Actually, I would argue the character and mettle of those who hate 'crutch' kits has been clearly revealed for the benefit of all.

One side argues with facts, numbers and intelligent discussion about the balance of the game.

The other says "LOL you stupid butthurt elitist"

[HolyAvenger]

Cyonan wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...
I'd redesign TC, something like this:

Rank 4: Weapon Damage 25% or Power Damage 25%
Rank 5: Recharge Speed 50% (a big buff) or Movement Speed 25%
Rank 6: Duration 100% or Bonus Power

TC would not override the CD of other powers. Using a power from within TC would trigger the CD of the other power (unless you took the rank 6 bonus power evo). Also immediately breaking TC upon shooting would not trigger the minimum 3 sec CD, but the actual CD based on whatever your weapon is and how heavy it is.


Numbers open to change of course.

The problem with all the Tactical Cloak redesigns is that you can't just redesign Tactical Cloak.

People are designing them around the idea that the TGI and GI will be balanced with it, but not all Infiltrators are on the same level as the TGI and GI.

It would be like me trying to balance BEs for the Human Adept around how powerful the Drell Adept is. It just doesn't work because the Drell Adept is so incredibly potent due to Cluster Grenades, which the Human Adept doesn't have.

 

That was meant for future games, not for ME3. They can't rewrite the code for it now, it would be too major a change.

[Cyonan]

Feneckus wrote...
One side argues with facts, numbers and intelligent discussion about the balance of the game.

The other says "LOL you stupid butthurt elitist"

One side says that the Infiltrators are better engineers than the N7 Paladin =P

I tried to argue facts, but you don't tend to respond very well to them, or just turn it into an insult to BioWare.

[Feneckus]

Cyonan wrote...

One side says that the Infiltrators are better engineers than the N7 Paladin =P

1) Snap Freeze is bugged as hell.
2) No infiltrators have snap freeze, that's irrelevant.

[Bechter]

Cyonan wrote...

Feneckus wrote...
One side argues with facts, numbers and intelligent discussion about the balance of the game.

The other says "LOL you stupid butthurt elitist"

One side says that the Infiltrators are better engineers than the N7 Paladin =P

I tried to argue facts, but you don't tend to respond very well to them, or just turn it into an insult to BioWare.

Cynonan you know math sic'em!

[Moxy_Pirate]

I love the way salarians look. Definitely the best crotch character.

[Geek]

Pretty much describes all of us.

[Cyonan]

Feneckus wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

One side says that the Infiltrators are better engineers than the N7 Paladin =P

1) Snap Freeze is bugged as hell.
2) No infiltrators have snap freeze, that's irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant since the best Engineer is currently the N7 Paladin. Say whatever you want about him, he is still the best tech user in the game right now.

You also claimed they're the most durable. Half the Vanguards in this game disagree with that statement.

[Zero132132]

They should just bring back independent CDs. It'd make biotics seem a bit OP, but it would mean that TC could be kept mostly as it is without making it so that you don't need to worry as much about weight.

If there were no cooldown benefit to cancelling cloak early, then you need to give something back. There should be a tradeoff between high damage and high survivability, yeah?