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What's the problem with "Crutch Characters"?


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#576
Feneckus

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Cyonan wrote...

There's somewhat of a point if you account for the exaggerations you're making.


I'm sorry, my mother was a computer, my father was a computer. So I have a binary logic. Either I'm wrong, or I'm right. Which is it ? "Somewhat of a point" and "IF you ...." isn't clear enough. Am I right or am I being delusional ?

}Essentially what I see it coming down to is that the characters who have amazing synergy between 3 solid abilities get called overpowered


As far as I know, I didn't use the term "overpowered", unless for stim packs.

And when the synergy leads to to having better tech powers than a freaking tech class, I think there's a problem.

Wouldn't it make sense that engineers had ... you know, the best engineer powers ? (not counting the paladin because he's bugged as hell, is is not an engineer and does not share his significant powers with any infiltrators).

Every single tech power that is shared between engineers and infiltrators is significantly better on infiltrators (btw, please explain how QMI's Tac Scan > QME's Tac Scan, please, I know you can do it, it would please me to save me the embassment, as of now I look like a Troll or someone who's speaking Ancient Korean ( it's quite embarrassing, so please, do what you do best and educate the masses with cold hard facts. Just  ignore your pro-TC-bias for a second and do what you do best. Please. I hate looking like a ****ing moron.)

#577
Cyonan

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Feneckus wrote...
I'm sorry, my mother was a computer, my father was a computer. So I have a binary logic. Either I'm wrong, or I'm right. Which is it ? "Somewhat of a point" and "IF you ...." isn't clear enough. Am I right or am I being delusional ?


In that case you're being delusional.

Feneckus wrote...

As far as I know, I didn't use the term "overpowered", unless for stim packs.

And when the synergy leads to to having better tech powers than a freaking tech class, I think there's a problem.

Wouldn't it make sense that engineers had ... you know, the best engineer powers ? (not counting the paladin because he's bugged as hell, is is not an engineer and does not share his significant powers with any infiltrators).

Every single tech power that is shared between engineers and infiltrators is significantly better on infiltrators (btw, please explain how QMI's Tac Scan > QME's Tac Scan, please, I know you can do it, it would please me to save me the embassment, as of now I look like a Troll or someone who's speaking Ancient Korean ( it's quite embarrassing, so please, do what you do best and educate the masses with cold hard facts. Just ignore your pro-TC-bias for a second and do what you do best. Please. I hate looking like a ****ing moron.)


It was more for general BSN.

With TC, the per GCD damage is higher but you can't use it as often unless the Engineer is bringing an absurdly heavy weapon. I already pointed out that tech damage overall is higher for Engineers, but the damage per cast of the Infiltrator is higher. In the case of the QME he's going to be spamming combos as well that the QMI wont be able to do unless he uses ammo powers(which wont do as much damage).

What makes the Infiltrators come out ahead isn't their powers being boosted, it's that Claymore shot that's been boosted by 80%.

I happen to have both versions of Tac Scan math in stock today. The kind that makes the QMI look better and the one that makes the QME look better.

Your idea is simply raw DPS numbers. To use a basic example:

If the QMI does 1000 DPS and the QME does 500, and Tac Scan increases damage by 30%

1000 * 1.3 = 1300

500 * 1.3 = 650

The QMI has gained 300 DPS while the QME has gained 150. It was "more effective" because the QMI has a higher damage output overall and thus gains more damage when looking at raw numbers instead of a %.

For those who prefer to say that the QME benefits more from it:

If against a target with 50000 health the time to kill for each of those characters would be:

QMI: 50 seconds, QME: 100 seconds

With a 30% debuff on the target it now becomes:

QMI: 38.46 seconds, QME: 76.92

As you can see, the QMI only knocked 11.54 seconds off his time to kill, while the QME knocked 23.08 seconds off this. The debuff was more than twice as effective for the guy with the lower DPS value.

I didn't use exact values since it doesn't matter. The guy with the lower DPS value will always come out ahead in the second example, and the guy with the higher DPS value will always come out ahread in the first example.

You can all feel free to subscribe to whichever of those two theorycrafting options that you like.

#578
IllusiveManJr

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This thread took off.

#579
xtorma

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I just play stuff. If it's fun, I play it again.

#580
me0120

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How many people think Adrenaline Rush would be OP if it were on more characters?

#581
mybudgee

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I play the kroguard because he is awesome.. If people have a prOblem with it, that is their issue

#582
Charaxan

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Yesterday, I played again my kroguard vs geth.

I felt on a lobby with two kroguard and one Turian ghost, I think.

Let's say I had my commendation pack very quickly.

All the classes need skills. Some skills are learned faster than others.

But if people can repeatly die while there is three kroguards and one boosted Turian on the gold map, then non skilled players won't benefit of any op characters. Period.


This whole thread os made out of jealousy and pride :I play better than you and you should not have the same reward than me.

Suck it off, whiners. Play or play not. The rest is facultative.

#583
sN00Z

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 Nothing is wrong with them, my motto is, the more enemies you kill, the faster I get paid. 

Also if there are three skilled individuals using, "crutch Characters" it gives me room to experiment in platinum, or use chars that I normally would not use in platinum because there may be a chance that I would need to carry the team. 

#584
sN00Z

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NuclearTech76 wrote...

I often see people complain about Kroguards or TGIs being used as crutch classes for noobs. What's the problem if someone wants to play a crutch character or weapon?


Why are kroguards OP? I do not see them top the charts, I also do not seem to run into players that use kroguard.

#585
Uh Cold

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sN00Z wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

I often see people complain about Kroguards or TGIs being used as crutch classes for noobs. What's the problem if someone wants to play a crutch character or weapon?


Why are kroguards OP? I do not see them top the charts, I also do not seem to run into players that use kroguard.

Kroguard reegar = designated group tank with respectable dps, also a solo crutch for those getting lone wolf casually.
You basically don't die and put out good damage, same goes for the TGI.
This games old enough that no one should really give a damn who is using what as long as fun is had.

Modifié par Uh Cold, 19 janvier 2013 - 11:34 .


#586
Hellsteeth30

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So I broke out the much maligned TGI Harrier for a few silver match PUGs.

I can say at least 3 of those would be wipes had I not been decimating bosses as quickly as I had been.

The way I saw it. I helped people get paid more and more quickly. I don't care what people use as long as I get paid and don't have a stroke doing it.

One mans idea of a crutch is anothers way of actually enjoying the game.

#587
GallowsPole

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Hellsteeth30 wrote...

One mans idea of a crutch is anothers way of actually enjoying the game.


True. However, you have three other people that want to have fun as well and may not share your philosophy. I know Im not one of them.

#588
TomSurman1

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Crutch characters are for weaklings. Real men do solo platinums with a drell vanguard carrying a javelin.

#589
joker_jack

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TomSurman1 wrote...

Crutch characters are for weaklings. Real men do solo platinums with a drell vanguard carrying a javelin.


Whilst getting shot in the face by a geth trooper, in 1 shot.:whistle:

#590
GallowsPole

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joker_jack wrote...

TomSurman1 wrote...

Crutch characters are for weaklings. Real men do solo platinums with a drell vanguard carrying a javelin.


Whilst getting shot in the face by a geth trooper, in 1 shot.:whistle:


You guys and your facials. ^_^

#591
Vonchiz

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24 Pages of Nerd Rage always makes for such a great read.

#592
iloveexplosives

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Blarg

#593
Learn To Love Yourself

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Instead of Carnage, they should have given the Kroguard Stim Packs. Then he might be Gold viable.

#594
Koenig888

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Jack Crapper wrote...

Instead of Carnage, they should have given the Kroguard Stim Packs. Then he might be Gold viable.


Kroguard already has Stim Packs.  They are called Biotic Charge.