593 réponses à ce sujet

[mrs_anomaly]

Zero132132 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Strongwater wrote...

That damn Harrier.  My first UR weapon, and my first to III (besides the Valkyrie), and I still can't use it the way I hear it described.  I think I just am not good at ARs. =/

No its because most of our AR's suck compared to the other weapons we have. The Harrier is literally the only AR anyone bothers talking about- but heh- call me super stupid I'll take my Avenger X over it  

PPR.

Oops..forgot about that one 

[Ziegrif]

From a game designer standpoint I guess it's more in the form of if people become one trick ponies and never venture onto the harder characters to use and learn them, they'll get bored faster.

[Flambrose]

ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame wrote...

Best part is the only ones that can use these "crutch" characters to the point forum goes whine that they're "OP" are people that have used these "crutch" characters long enough to fully understand them.

It doesn't take five minutes with a kroguard or TGI to know you're playing on narrative mode.

[lightswitch]

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I get pissed when my grenade class can't find grenades because the TGI needed his noob packs to stay alive.

Also, balance.

+1

Also, it's interesting how many people are inclined to say that we hate clutch classes because we've been outscored by them.

Last time I was outscored by some clown using clutch was....

Oh yeah, it didn't happen.

Embarassingly enough I've even beaten TGIs with a melee specced demolisher.

n00b / crutch classes ****** me off not because they've ever come close to outscoring me, but because they owe their entire score to whatever crutch they happen to be using; NOT to any skill they have.

Call me an elitist, whatever you like. I'll be over here doubling your score on my vorcha engineer.

More illogical nonsense from BSNs most absurd poster.

So, let me get this straight: people using crutch classes don't even score well anyhow. But whatever they ARE scoring is obviously just because of the crutch.

Either you're implying:

a) These players don't score any better than they normally would with any character when using a 'crutch class' in which case the crutch makes no difference; or
 you're so good, that even though these players are scoring waaaaay above their actual skill level you are still outscoring them with melee demolishers.

So either the whole post is nonsense, or you're completely full of yourself.

Actually I'm going to go with both.

[NuclearTech76]

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Strongwater wrote...

That damn Harrier.  My first UR weapon, and my first to III (besides the Valkyrie), and I still can't use it the way I hear it described.  I think I just am not good at ARs. =/

No its because most of our AR's suck compared to the other weapons we have. The Harrier is literally the only AR anyone bothers talking about- but heh- call me super stupid I'll take my Avenger X over it  

PPR.

Oops..forgot about that one 

Saber is a pretty good AR as well but I always consider it a sniper rifle. Typhoon on certain characters as well.

[AkuIaTubShark]

Zero132132 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Strongwater wrote...

That damn Harrier.  My first UR weapon, and my first to III (besides the Valkyrie), and I still can't use it the way I hear it described.  I think I just am not good at ARs. =/

No its because most of our AR's suck compared to the other weapons we have. The Harrier is literally the only AR anyone bothers talking about- but heh- call me super stupid I'll take my Avenger X over it  

PPR.

I'm with Zero. I personally hate the Harrier. Although I was glad when I opened a AP and saw 'dat Harrier IX, X in the same pack.

Modifié par AkuIaTubShark, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:00 .

[BridgeBurner]

Ziegrif wrote...

From a game designer standpoint I guess it's more in the form of if people become one trick ponies and never venture onto the harder characters to use and learn them, they'll get bored faster.

You'd think so wouldn't you?

The problem being I see the same monkeys playing TGI / kroguard or whatever else happens to be in fashion this week time and time again in gold games. Never once are they better, never once do they actually look like they should be in gold.

[Zjarcal]

While I do care a lot for balance and believe the TGI breaks that just a bit too much, honestly, it doesn't matter that much. I am ok with some characters being significantly easier to play, it's actually a good thing for the most part as it allows new player an easier "entry level" of sorts (the TGI just pushes that a bit too far for my liking).

But the truth is, no character is so easy to play that a complete newbie will grab them and immediately solo platinum with them, and skilled players are capable of performing just as well with underpowered kits, so taking that into account, people are free to have fun with whatever character they want.

[Tiamatshade]

There ... isn't one?

Kits with high health and shields and a hearty "FOR TUCHANKA" have a role on the team, even if it isn't setting up combos or following your teammates around.

Not sure what to say on TGI. Haven't played with many yet. Maybe it's the perfume.

[Miniditka77]

mrs_anomaly wrote...

No its because most of our AR's suck compared to the other weapons we have. The Harrier is literally the only AR anyone bothers talking about- but heh- call me super stupid I'll take my Avenger X over it  

True, most AR's do suck.  Not trying to be insulting, but it's really perplexing that an experienced player could have a problem using the Harrier.  Have you tried looking down the sights to shoot?  Most automatic weapons work better when hip firing, but I think the Harrier is easiest to use by looking down the sights (while out of cover).  It seems to kick more when you're in cover, and it loses quite a bit of accuracy when you're hip firing.

[XPMUser]

That's why I often force myself to play "crappy" kits

[Strongwater]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Strongwater wrote...

That damn Harrier.  My first UR weapon, and my first to III (besides the Valkyrie), and I still can't use it the way I hear it described.  I think I just am not good at ARs. =/

No its because most of our AR's suck compared to the other weapons we have. The Harrier is literally the only AR anyone bothers talking about- but heh- call me super stupid I'll take my Avenger X over it  

PPR.

Oops..forgot about that one 

Saber is a pretty good AR as well but I always consider it a sniper rifle. Typhoon on certain characters as well.

<- has none of the ARs being mentioned in this pyramid ):

[Bechter]

Crutch characters aren't good enough for me I need hoverounds!

It's the only way I can get around in multiplayer.

[lightswitch]

The truth is that new or inexperienced players don't know how to use the TGI. They don't know when to use stim packs and don't have them when they really need them, they try to use the Harrier like a firehose don't hit anything and never have ammo, and they barely understand the utility of Overload.

Topping the scoreboard with a TGI takes a good understanding of game mechanics, good aim, and trigger control: i.e., 'skill', just like with any other class.

[brad2240]

Zero132132 wrote...

brad2240 wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

It's just a sign of being less skilled, and some people have problems with low skill players.

Liking a certain class means your less skilled? There's no room there for people who jus, you know, like Turians, Infiltrators and assautl rifles?

The bolded was important. It's a hint, not some sort of immutable fact of the universe.

Fair enough. I'd personally rather not assume anyone is low-skilled until I see what they do in the game. But I choose kits based on what I feel like playing rather than what's popular/OP, so maybe I'm wrong for assuming others do the same.

[jaydubs67]

What crutch classes should do:  
-Allow new or low-skilled players to contribute to the team and be generally useful.  
-Be limited enough that new players move on to the next class once they feel more comfortable with the game.  

What crutch classes actually do in ME3 MP:  
-Make the game significantly easier no matter what skill level you are at.  
-Trivialize all other classes into "I'm gonna handicap myself for the funsies" classes.  

If crutch classes worked like the first example, I would have no problem with them.  The problem is, they actually act like the latter.  So I am forced to choose between limiting myself to about 1/4 of all the classes, or purposely gimping myself just to experience a wider variety of playstyles.  The fun of mastering a class is greatly decreased by the enduring truth that I could better my performance by simply abandoning the class for a more effective one.  

And I'll drop another link to the "why balance is important" thread:  http://social.biowar...ndex/14681282/1  

[BridgeBurner]

lightswitch wrote...

The truth is that new or inexperienced players don't know how to use the TGI. They don't know when to use stim packs and don't have them when they really need them, they try to use the Harrier like a firehose don't hit anything and never have ammo, and they barely understand the utility of Overload.

Topping the scoreboard with a TGI takes a good understanding of game mechanics, good aim, and trigger control: i.e., 'skill', just like with any other class.

Like pointing your gun at the enemy? And pressing your number 2 button?

And of course, the TGI is in no way helped in any way by the invincibility that n00b packs provide and the 100% extra damage cloak gives.

You really are ignorant.



Traditionally a no-fitness build has some sort of risk factor involved. Yet, when last I checked a no-fitness TGI was actually optimal as your survivability is virtually the same and your damage output is higher as a consequence of going no fitness. Wheras "no-fitness" should mean you are less survivable at the expense of more damage... a concept foreign to the TGI.

Modifié par Annomander, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:07 .

[Flambrose]

Strongwater wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

Strongwater wrote...

That damn Harrier.  My first UR weapon, and my first to III (besides the Valkyrie), and I still can't use it the way I hear it described.  I think I just am not good at ARs. =/

No its because most of our AR's suck compared to the other weapons we have. The Harrier is literally the only AR anyone bothers talking about- but heh- call me super stupid I'll take my Avenger X over it  

PPR.

Oops..forgot about that one 

Saber is a pretty good AR as well but I always consider it a sniper rifle. Typhoon on certain characters as well.

<- has none of the ARs being mentioned in this pyramid ):

Mattock. 4th best AR in the game... and everyone has it

[mrs_anomaly]

Miniditka77 wrote...

mrs_anomaly wrote...

No its because most of our AR's suck compared to the other weapons we have. The Harrier is literally the only AR anyone bothers talking about- but heh- call me super stupid I'll take my Avenger X over it  

True, most AR's do suck.  Not trying to be insulting, but it's really perplexing that an experienced player could have a problem using the Harrier.  Have you tried looking down the sights to shoot?  Most automatic weapons work better when hip firing, but I think the Harrier is easiest to use by looking down the sights (while out of cover).  It seems to kick more when you're in cover, and it loses quite a bit of accuracy when you're hip firing.

Cool- I'm not offended by actual tips  
Hmm maybe that was my issue- I can't recall exactly how iI was using it but perhaps I was just hip firing. Yeah probably- so I'll certainly dust it off and try to use it that way lol 

[Matthias King]

Some players just need to feel superior and look down on other players that they deem "unskilled" for using a class that has been deemed 'overpowered.'

For some reason they feel superior because they can solo Platinum using a level 1 Volus and a Shuriken with no equipment, or some other such BS. Congratulations on being that awesome at the game and looking down your nose at other 99.9% players who are average and just playing for fun.

So to answer your question, the elitists who hate the players who use the so-called easy mode kit are full of themselves, not to mention that they entirely miss the point of the multiplayer.

Modifié par Matthias King, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:03 .

[BridgeBurner]

jaydubs67 wrote...

What crutch classes actually do in ME3 MP:  
-Make the game significantly easier no matter what skill level you are at.  
-Trivialize all other classes into "I'm gonna handicap myself for the funsies" classes. 

I'm quoting this Lazy, because more people need to see this.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Annomander wrote...

jaydubs67 wrote...

What crutch classes actually do in ME3 MP:  
-Make the game significantly easier no matter what skill level you are at.  
-Trivialize all other classes into "I'm gonna handicap myself for the funsies" classes. 

I'm quoting this Lazy, because more people need to see this.

But then even with crutch characters and weapons they still die a lot? 

[J-Reyno]

I don't mind crutch characters. I'd rather have a guy with less skill use a crutch character than not if he's in my lobby. Just makes my job easier. So in a way, I appreciate them. It's not like I can actually be concerned about whether his kills are from skill or from the character... I'm doing what I do over here regardless of what you or anyone else is playing, so it makes me no difference. If it helps you keep up, then by all means. If you just enjoy the character, then by all means.

All in all, just contribute adequately and I'm content.

[brad2240]

Annomander wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

The truth is that new or inexperienced players don't know how to use the TGI. They don't know when to use stim packs and don't have them when they really need them, they try to use the Harrier like a firehose don't hit anything and never have ammo, and they barely understand the utility of Overload.

Topping the scoreboard with a TGI takes a good understanding of game mechanics, good aim, and trigger control: i.e., 'skill', just like with any other class.

Like pointing your gun at the enemy? And pressing your number 2 button?

And of course, the TGI is in no way helped in any way by the invincibility that n00b packs provide and the 100% extra damage cloak gives.

You really are ignorant.

Ok, honest question here:

Would you rather have somebody on your team who's contributing because its a good class, despite a low skill level, or somebody who's just plain sucking with an average class and dragging the whole team down?

[HolyAvenger]

I have no issues with some kits helping players acclimatise to harder difficulties by being more forgiving. People who get good enough will move on to playing other kits.

If I don't like a lobby I just find another one.