Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
4 TGIs vs 4 Saboteurs.
There would be at most 5 minutes of difference in clear times between those 2 teams. e.g. 15 min clears vs 20 min clears.
TGI and Kroguard are the easiest to play characters, but not the best one if you are able to master. A Turian Soldier with Falcon and Disruptor ammo can nuke a spawn before TGI able to kill the 2nd enemy. A Krogan Sentinel/Krogan Soldier can just toss 2 Grenades into spawn and wipe it before Kroguard can do something.Dorick wrote...
Cyonan wrote...
Elitists get upset when somebody they don't think are that good are using an easier character on the higher difficulties. Apparently this clearly makes them a scrub that can't play a real class.
It was no different in WoW. I remember a guy who got really mad because I was outperforming him as a tank, and he started going off about how Paladin tanks are a crutch class for scrubs who can't play a real tank.
Since I didn't need any gear from the bosses left, I offered to get my Warrior tank, then proceeded to outperform him on that as well, despite losing the gear advantage I had on my Paladin.
Just ignore the people that get upset that something is easier to play and play whatever you feel like.
1st off, this legitametly happens, its why game balance is so important. I play a lot of fighter games and sometimes certain characters are banned from tournies and competitions bc they are unbalanced.
Second, are you saying the kroguard, TGI, and GI are balanced with the other characters?
Modifié par Crimson Vanguard, 17 janvier 2013 - 09:04 .
Matthias King wrote...
It's because the 'elitists,' as I and others call them, get bent out of shape when 'noobs,' as they call them, play this game in a way that is 'not approved' by the 'elitists.'Dorick wrote...
If we are "elitists" for caring about game balance, does that make everyone else "noobs" for wanting op kits?Matthias King wrote...
This is something about the elitists on this game that I'll never understand.Annomander wrote...
The problem with mass effect 3 is this is not the case. Some weapons / characters over perform in under-skilled hands.
When I see someone using something which is blatantly more powerful than what I'm using...then it diminishes my feeling of enjoyment from the game.
I just don't get how its fair to label the users of a fair argument as if "elitists" changes the nature of those arguments to an inviable argument. TGI, Kroguard, and GI ARE unbalanced.
The 'elitists' make the claim that if a 'noob' needs to use an 'overpowered' kit or weapon or both to play gold, then they, and I quote, "don't belong in gold." If the fact that these so-called 'noobs' are able to play gold by using powerful characters and weapons offends the 'elitists' delicate sensibilities, then they desperately need to get a life.
Matthias King wrote...
It's because the 'elitists,' as I and others call them, get bent out of shape when 'noobs,' as they call them, play this game in a way that is 'not approved' by the 'elitists.'Dorick wrote...
If we are "elitists" for caring about game balance, does that make everyone else "noobs" for wanting op kits?Matthias King wrote...
This is something about the elitists on this game that I'll never understand.Annomander wrote...
The problem with mass effect 3 is this is not the case. Some weapons / characters over perform in under-skilled hands.
When I see someone using something which is blatantly more powerful than what I'm using...then it diminishes my feeling of enjoyment from the game.
I just don't get how its fair to label the users of a fair argument as if "elitists" changes the nature of those arguments to an inviable argument. TGI, Kroguard, and GI ARE unbalanced.
The 'elitists' make the claim that if a 'noob' needs to use an 'overpowered' kit or weapon or both to play gold, then they, and I quote, "don't belong in gold." If the fact that these so-called 'noobs' are able to play gold by using powerful characters and weapons offends the 'elitists' delicate sensibilities, then they desperately need to get a life.
Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
Ah, dem DECO rounds.
(also to be nitpicky an AWP is a one-shot kill everywhere except the leg
)
Yeah, that's what I said.
Modifié par BACON4BREAKFIST, 17 janvier 2013 - 09:07 .
lightswitch wrote...
Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
4 TGIs vs 4 Saboteurs.
There would be at most 5 minutes of difference in clear times between those 2 teams. e.g. 15 min clears vs 20 min clears.
Five minutes is kind of a long time...20 minute clear is pretty average, 15 minutes is very good for most mortals.
Not a good comparison though, Saboteur is noted for its' underwhelming abilites. TGI vs. Havoc should be closer in terms of ability and time to clear.
Annomander wrote...
brad2240 wrote...
Ok, honest question here:
Would you rather have somebody on your team who's contributing because its a good class, despite a low skill level, or somebody who's just plain sucking with an average class and dragging the whole team down?
You can contribute without needing to use an easy mode class. The answer is to become better at the game, not to rely on XYZ combination to carry you.
If you are "just plain sucking" with a non-infiltrator, or without a reegar, or without playing kroguard then they shouldn't be playing in gold then should they?
What about Male Quarian Engineer? I saw Feneckus scored 3 killstreaks in wave 1 with him.Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
lightswitch wrote...
Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
4 TGIs vs 4 Saboteurs.
There would be at most 5 minutes of difference in clear times between those 2 teams. e.g. 15 min clears vs 20 min clears.
Five minutes is kind of a long time...20 minute clear is pretty average, 15 minutes is very good for most mortals.
Not a good comparison though, Saboteur is noted for its' underwhelming abilites. TGI vs. Havoc should be closer in terms of ability and time to clear.
Switch the 4 Saboteurs with other classes like Human Soldier, Drell Adept, Asari Vanguard etc... (that's only a few examples. Plenty of other characters could do the same) and they'd clear it in the same time.
/Highfive. I love GI not because hes OP. But because hes a Geth and Infiltrator.Ashen Earth wrote...
I play GI almost exclusively.
Fight me.
Your analogy, while admirable, is totally ridiculous. All these 'overpowered' kits and weapons are within the game's intended parameters and function exactly as the devs intended, whereas playing a game of chess with one queen vs two is not at all within the game's intended rules.Dorick wrote...
Cyonan wrote...
Dorick wrote...
If we are "elitists" for caring about game balance, does that make everyone else "noobs" for wanting op kits?Matthias King wrote...
This is something about the elitists on this game that I'll never understand.Annomander wrote...
The problem with mass effect 3 is this is not the case. Some weapons / characters over perform in under-skilled hands.
When I see someone using something which is blatantly more powerful than what I'm using...then it diminishes my feeling of enjoyment from the game.
I just don't get how its fair to label the users of a fair argument as if "elitists" changes the nature of those arguments to an inviable argument. TGI, Kroguard, and GI ARE unbalanced.
You're an elitist if you're calling them crutch classes for people who can't play a real class, or are upset because somebody is using an easier to play class to do well.
You can simply call something overpowered without being an elitist. It's more how you respond to the people using it,
So the term "elitist" is a way to stereotype players who care about game balance?
If I wanted to play a fair game of chess and my opponent had two queens while I had one, am I being a bad sport when i get frustrated for losing, or does the game need to be changed so that each players starts with one queen?
There's a line between finding a way to blame your performance on the game, and being upset over game balance. In this case the kroguard, TGI, and GI are clearly unbalanced.
I also find it offensive that people are getting stereotyped for pointing out something that is blatantly true.
I get upset over the kroguard, TGI, and GI the same way I get upset when I missile glitcher is in the game.
Ashen Earth wrote...
I play GI almost exclusively.
Fight me.
Annomander wrote...
We don't approve of it, because it isn't balanced.
What's so hard about that to understand?
Balance is a perfectly desirable thing to have in a game. Crutch classes BREAK the balance. Whether or not the person using the class is competent is irrelevant. Imbalanced is imbalanced.
Modifié par lightswitch, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:30 .
I just disagree, TGI and kroguard have plenty of damage output when used correctly. And the fact that it requires much more skill to outscore those characters is the entire argument that they arent balanced anyways.Crimson Vanguard wrote...
TGI and Kroguard are the easiest to play characters, but not the best one if you are able to master. A Turian Soldier with Falcon and Disruptor ammo can nuke a spawn before TGI able to kill the 2nd enemy. A Krogan Sentinel/Krogan Soldier can just toss 2 Grenades into spawn and wipe it before Kroguard can do something.Dorick wrote...
Cyonan wrote...
Elitists get upset when somebody they don't think are that good are using an easier character on the higher difficulties. Apparently this clearly makes them a scrub that can't play a real class.
It was no different in WoW. I remember a guy who got really mad because I was outperforming him as a tank, and he started going off about how Paladin tanks are a crutch class for scrubs who can't play a real tank.
Since I didn't need any gear from the bosses left, I offered to get my Warrior tank, then proceeded to outperform him on that as well, despite losing the gear advantage I had on my Paladin.
Just ignore the people that get upset that something is easier to play and play whatever you feel like.
1st off, this legitametly happens, its why game balance is so important. I play a lot of fighter games and sometimes certain characters are banned from tournies and competitions bc they are unbalanced.
Second, are you saying the kroguard, TGI, and GI are balanced with the other characters?
For the GI hes something between an OP and Balance character, hes not easy to play and you need quite skill like maneuver to avoid enemies LOS, abuse soft cover and hit and run, but if mastered hes the deadliest SOB among all characters. Hes not the most OP because you need a degree of skill to play him effectively (moving around, avoiding enemies fire, etc)
BACON4BREAKFIST wrote...
Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
Ah, dem DECO rounds(also to be nitpicky an AWP is a one-shot kill everywhere except the leg
Yeah, that's what I said
"AWP (who is a oneshot-onekill weapon no matter where you aim, even with Kevlar, except for the leg)"
OK I'm dumb, I don't know how i missed that >_<
You might like this video, watch the first few rounds. It's CS 1.6 with mTw and Na'Vi some amazing eco rounds.
www.youtube.com/watch
The sound is a little laggy, but it's still awesome.
Dorick wrote...
So the term "elitist" is a way to stereotype players who care about game balance?
If I wanted to play a fair game of chess and my opponent had two queens while I had one, am I being a bad sport when i get frustrated for losing, or does the game need to be changed so that each players starts with one queen?
There's a line between finding a way to blame your performance on the game, and being upset over game balance. In this case the kroguard, TGI, and GI are clearly unbalanced.
I also find it offensive that people are getting stereotyped for pointing out something that is blatantly true.
I get upset over the kroguard, TGI, and GI the same way I get upset when I missile glitcher is in the game.
Annomander wrote...
World of warcraft is governed by too many aspects completely outwith control; gear for one and learning a rotation which will 100% return the same variable DPS as dictated by RNG: from X - Y DPS, each and every time.
Being in a top raiding guild on WoW doesn't take a tremendous level of skill, trust me, I did Ulduar 10 heroics, ICC heroics, and firelands heroic before I quit. WoW is a perfect example however, of why "dumbing" the game down (by adding kroguards, reegars, TGIs etc) is a bad idea. It became impossible for us to find semi-competent players to fill spots in a raid. WoW takes no skill whatsoever, but even then we couldn't get people to play at the required level because blizzard thought making raids easier and showering people in emblems of conquest would make them better players.
It didn't, the same thing happens in ME3. Crutch classes don't make people better players.
You mean Harrier and Reegar? I think Falcon and Disruptor ammo on Turian Soldier are the ingredients for doomdaydevice.Dorick wrote...
I just disagree, TGI and kroguard have plenty of damage output when used correctly. And the fact that it requires much more skill to outscore those characters is the entire argument that they arent balanced anyways.Crimson Vanguard wrote...
TGI and Kroguard are the easiest to play characters, but not the best one if you are able to master. A Turian Soldier with Falcon and Disruptor ammo can nuke a spawn before TGI able to kill the 2nd enemy. A Krogan Sentinel/Krogan Soldier can just toss 2 Grenades into spawn and wipe it before Kroguard can do something.Dorick wrote...
Cyonan wrote...
Elitists get upset when somebody they don't think are that good are using an easier character on the higher difficulties. Apparently this clearly makes them a scrub that can't play a real class.
It was no different in WoW. I remember a guy who got really mad because I was outperforming him as a tank, and he started going off about how Paladin tanks are a crutch class for scrubs who can't play a real tank.
Since I didn't need any gear from the bosses left, I offered to get my Warrior tank, then proceeded to outperform him on that as well, despite losing the gear advantage I had on my Paladin.
Just ignore the people that get upset that something is easier to play and play whatever you feel like.
1st off, this legitametly happens, its why game balance is so important. I play a lot of fighter games and sometimes certain characters are banned from tournies and competitions bc they are unbalanced.
Second, are you saying the kroguard, TGI, and GI are balanced with the other characters?
For the GI hes something between an OP and Balance character, hes not easy to play and you need quite skill like maneuver to avoid enemies LOS, abuse soft cover and hit and run, but if mastered hes the deadliest SOB among all characters. Hes not the most OP because you need a degree of skill to play him effectively (moving around, avoiding enemies fire, etc)
Modifié par Crimson Vanguard, 17 janvier 2013 - 09:19 .
Cyonan wrote...
I think the TGI + Harrier is overpowered, but I don't get mad because how dare somebody use something powerful on "my" difficulty. Sure I might encourage them to play other classes for the sake of variety, and I might laugh if they start bragging about how amazing they are at this game, but I'm not going to go thinking less of them because they happen to be playing the TGI.
To lightswitch: how is that not a fair comparison? The whole question is whether these characters are balanced, I bring up two that will be underwhelming when facing off vs four TGI's and you say that's not a fair comparison??? What you meant to say was that the Turian ghost is OP compared to the other two new turians.Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
lightswitch wrote...
Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...
4 TGIs vs 4 Saboteurs.
There would be at most 5 minutes of difference in clear times between those 2 teams. e.g. 15 min clears vs 20 min clears.
Five minutes is kind of a long time...20 minute clear is pretty average, 15 minutes is very good for most mortals.
Not a good comparison though, Saboteur is noted for its' underwhelming abilites. TGI vs. Havoc should be closer in terms of ability and time to clear.
Switch the 4 Saboteurs with other classes like Human Soldier, Drell Adept, Asari Vanguard etc... (that's only a few examples. Plenty of other characters could do the same) and they'd clear it in the same time.
Modifié par FlowCytometry, 17 janvier 2013 - 09:26 .
Not on platinum, where you are often overrun on certain maps and need to be able to focus damage on a single boss. If I needed to take down a banshee, I'd bet on the particle rifle x with incendiary ammo over the falcon with disruptor ammo. Its not even a contest. What you suggested with the falcon would only work with specific conditions. and even then i still feel the harrier is going to be putting out more damage by focusing on armored bosses.Crimson Vanguard wrote...
You mean Harrier and Reegar? I think Falcon and Disruptor ammo on Turian Soldier are the ingredients for doomdaydevice.Dorick wrote...
I just disagree, TGI and kroguard have plenty of damage output when used correctly. And the fact that it requires much more skill to outscore those characters is the entire argument that they arent balanced anyways.Crimson Vanguard wrote...
TGI and Kroguard are the easiest to play characters, but not the best one if you are able to master. A Turian Soldier with Falcon and Disruptor ammo can nuke a spawn before TGI able to kill the 2nd enemy. A Krogan Sentinel/Krogan Soldier can just toss 2 Grenades into spawn and wipe it before Kroguard can do something.Dorick wrote...
Cyonan wrote...
Elitists get upset when somebody they don't think are that good are using an easier character on the higher difficulties. Apparently this clearly makes them a scrub that can't play a real class.
It was no different in WoW. I remember a guy who got really mad because I was outperforming him as a tank, and he started going off about how Paladin tanks are a crutch class for scrubs who can't play a real tank.
Since I didn't need any gear from the bosses left, I offered to get my Warrior tank, then proceeded to outperform him on that as well, despite losing the gear advantage I had on my Paladin.
Just ignore the people that get upset that something is easier to play and play whatever you feel like.
1st off, this legitametly happens, its why game balance is so important. I play a lot of fighter games and sometimes certain characters are banned from tournies and competitions bc they are unbalanced.
Second, are you saying the kroguard, TGI, and GI are balanced with the other characters?
For the GI hes something between an OP and Balance character, hes not easy to play and you need quite skill like maneuver to avoid enemies LOS, abuse soft cover and hit and run, but if mastered hes the deadliest SOB among all characters. Hes not the most OP because you need a degree of skill to play him effectively (moving around, avoiding enemies fire, etc)
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