593 réponses à ce sujet

[Dorick]

TehPwnzor52 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

I think the TGI + Harrier is overpowered, but I don't get mad because how dare somebody use something powerful on "my" difficulty. Sure I might encourage them to play other classes for the sake of variety, and I might laugh if they start bragging about how amazing they are at this game, but I'm not going to go thinking less of them because they happen to be playing the TGI.

This is exactly what I mean. It's not whether or not something is OP. It's how the 'elitists' are responding to people playing as said OP classes.

I feel the same way about the kroguard, TGI, and GI as I do about missile glitchers. 

[Dorick]

COLZ7R wrote...

Its really cute how some of the "i love me" brigade always come out to any thread like this claiming some devine right to tell people how to play and at what level. Sorry scratch "cute" and put "pathetic" please double my score when i am using my tgi/harrier X "crutch" that would be fun

This doesnt belong in a civil debate. 

[BACON4BREAKFAST]

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

You might like this one

It's a FragMovie, but there are some gems right there. From the Copenhagen games 2012.

I usually don't like frag movies, but that is really well done. I don't even care about whatever this thread is about anymore

[L.ast L.ife]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

None. That is the problem. That is why I like them. I feel better when others are playing these characters because I know that my work load will be reduced.

PREACH.

[TehPwnzor52]

Dorick wrote...

TehPwnzor52 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

I think the TGI + Harrier is overpowered, but I don't get mad because how dare somebody use something powerful on "my" difficulty. Sure I might encourage them to play other classes for the sake of variety, and I might laugh if they start bragging about how amazing they are at this game, but I'm not going to go thinking less of them because they happen to be playing the TGI.

This is exactly what I mean. It's not whether or not something is OP. It's how the 'elitists' are responding to people playing as said OP classes.

I feel the same way about the kroguard, TGI, and GI as I do about missile glitchers. 

And that's clearly the wrong reaction. I've played actual competitive games like CoD, Halo, or BF3 where there a weapons that are clearly OP that everyone uses and not gotten as upset as these elitist playing  a CO-OP game.

[knightshieldatr]

Don't know just how much of a crutch they are, I've seen people fail with both and not even with lvl 1 characters, far from it.

[FlowCytometry]

I just disagree, TGI and kroguard have plenty of damage output when used correctly. And the fact that it requires much more skill to outscore those characters is the entire argument that they arent balanced anyways.

The TGI, sure. Though keep in mind his aoe potential is bad w/o linking up w/ a flamer kit or w/e. A spawn-nuking_grenadier class can still top him depending on spawn layout and who gets first dibs, even if he's one of the best single-target ranged units in the game w/ a Harrier, aoe dps can make a big difference. The KV at his best dmg-wise (reegar vs. geth w/ all amps and equips) is still not very high compared to the best most other kits can offer. Not counting general teamwork/combos that can apply to any kit (like warp/fire ammo w/ a pet warper, aoe detonator + flamer bot, etc), his offense is hard capped at aoe charge's meager dps every 4.5-5 sec and either weakly boosted weapon damage in between or decent, but single-target only heavy melee (that also carriers an armor penalty). Not to mention w/ this type of build he's pitiful or even useless when forced to not be in CQC.

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 17 janvier 2013 - 09:46 .

[Cyonan]

Dorick wrote...

TehPwnzor52 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

I think the TGI + Harrier is overpowered, but I don't get mad because how dare somebody use something powerful on "my" difficulty. Sure I might encourage them to play other classes for the sake of variety, and I might laugh if they start bragging about how amazing they are at this game, but I'm not going to go thinking less of them because they happen to be playing the TGI.

This is exactly what I mean. It's not whether or not something is OP. It's how the 'elitists' are responding to people playing as said OP classes.

I feel the same way about the kroguard, TGI, and GI as I do about missile glitchers. 

and that is why we call you elitist.

Not because you think the Kroguard, TGi, or GI are overpowered, but because you look down on people who are using it.

[Dorick]

Cyonan wrote...

Dorick wrote...

TehPwnzor52 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

I think the TGI + Harrier is overpowered, but I don't get mad because how dare somebody use something powerful on "my" difficulty. Sure I might encourage them to play other classes for the sake of variety, and I might laugh if they start bragging about how amazing they are at this game, but I'm not going to go thinking less of them because they happen to be playing the TGI.

This is exactly what I mean. It's not whether or not something is OP. It's how the 'elitists' are responding to people playing as said OP classes.

I feel the same way about the kroguard, TGI, and GI as I do about missile glitchers. 

and that is why we call you elitist.

Not because you think the Kroguard, TGi, or GI are overpowered, but because you look down on people who are using it.

Wow I didnt say I looked down on Missile glitchers did I? I look at the missile glitchers as ruining a match. I didnt say anything at all about how i feel about the people using the glitch. But you jumped the gun and called me an elitist. That was really lame. 

[Original Twigman]

Dorick wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

lightswitch wrote...

Jay_Hoxtatron wrote...

4 TGIs vs 4 Saboteurs.

There would be at most 5 minutes of difference in clear times between those 2 teams. e.g. 15 min clears vs 20 min clears.

Five minutes is kind of a long time...20 minute clear is pretty average, 15 minutes is very good for most mortals.

Not a good comparison though, Saboteur is noted for its' underwhelming abilites. TGI vs. Havoc should be closer in terms of ability and time to clear.

Switch the 4 Saboteurs with other classes like Human Soldier, Drell Adept, Asari Vanguard etc... (that's only a few examples. Plenty of other characters could do the same) and they'd clear it in the same time.

To lightswitch: how is that not a fair comparison? The whole question is whether these characters are balanced, I bring up two that will be underwhelming when facing off vs four TGI's and you say that's not a fair comparison??? What you meant to say was that the Turian ghost is OP compared to the other two new turians. 

To Jay: While I concede you will have better damage output between those characters, its not necasserily damage output that makes the TGI unbalanced. Same with the Kroguard. They have great damage output, and great survivability, a combo that's not matched by other characters that are far squishier. Its another one of those arguments that you could do better with another class IF you are very skilled and play well with that class.
But that isnt the point of the argument
. The point is that the TGI and Kroguard are unbalanced bc they are so much easier to score well with, not because they have the top potential. In other words you could claim a group of grenade damage characters are better in theory, but in platinum when you are stuck soloing a round, the TGI is going to be doing a much better job, or having an easier time.  
That being said, if I had to bet on four players testing this theory out, I would put my money on the TGI team. 

Something to consider; The original topic was about crutch characters, not about balance, which seems to be the overall theme of your argument.

Also, i think you are confusing "Balance" with "equal." Balance doesn't necessarily mean that all kits are created equal. That would be a stale game.

[Cyonan]

Dorick wrote...
Wow I didnt say I looked down on Missile glitchers did I? I look at the missile glitchers as ruining a match. I didnt say anything at all about how i feel about the people using the glitch. But you jumped the gun and called me an elitist. That was really lame. 

And tell me, how exactly do they ruin your match by using a character that is easier to play but not actually the highest in terms of potential?

Modifié par Cyonan, 17 janvier 2013 - 09:46 .

[COLZ7R]

@dorick
You have no moral authority to tell anyone what is proper in a civel debate when you freely admit to looking down at legitimate players using a class you dont like as low as a missile glitcher. Stunning arogance, i will give you that

[INFINITY650]

But what about the fact that I love playing the Kroguard (who is totally speced for hitting things and not max shields) is that OK?
Just kidding I don't give a flying donkey's ****** what anyone thinks I should or should not be playing.

[Dorick]

FlowCytometry wrote...

I just disagree, TGI and kroguard have plenty of damage output when used correctly. And the fact that it requires much more skill to outscore those characters is the entire argument that they arent balanced anyways.

The TGI, sure. Though keep in mind his aoe potential is bad w/o linking up w/ a flamer kit or w/e. The KV at his best dmg-wise (reegar vs. geth w/ all amps and equips) is still not very high compared to the best most other kits can offer. Not counting general teamwork/combos that can apply to any kit (like warp/fire ammo w/ a pet warper, aoe detonator + flamer bot, etc), his offense is hard capped at aoe charge's meager dps every 4.5-5 sec and either weakly boosted weapon damage in between or decent, but single-target only heavy melee (that also carriers an armor penalty). Not to mention w/ this type of build he's pitiful or even useless when forced to not be in CQC.

Clearly the mechanic that makes this character capable of doing so much is having damage reduction, rage mode, and massive health shields, coupled with staggerless, and biotic charge. 
The kroguard can stand in front of his target and take shots while he primes with ammo, then follow up with a charge, no problem. 
His sustained DPS is excellent just due to the fact that he isnt going to be downing much during the match, also bc he can stand a foot in front of his opponent and go nuts. 

I just dont see how you cant concede that this is an OP character. 

[Chrxna]

I usually play the human soldier, or sometimes the Krosen and Tursen. Am I still allowed to play this game, pretty please?

[Crimson Vanguard]

Cyonan wrote...

Dorick wrote...
Wow I didnt say I looked down on Missile glitchers did I? I look at the missile glitchers as ruining a match. I didnt say anything at all about how i feel about the people using the glitch. But you jumped the gun and called me an elitist. That was really lame. 

And tell me, how exactly do they ruin your match by using a character that is easier to play but not actually the highest in terms of potential?

Unless they are outscoring him.

[Dorick]

COLZ7R wrote...

@dorick
You have no moral authority to tell anyone what is proper in a civel debate when you freely admit to looking down at legitimate players using a class you dont like as low as a missile glitcher. Stunning arogance, i will give you that

I NEVER look down on players. Even the missile glitchers. I feel that only the game mechanics are to blame. You are free to look over my previous posts and find out where I "look down" on other players. 

Its not about moral authority its about sticking to the argument over slinging mud, which is what you were doing. I enjoy debate, and I get upset when they are ruined by a few misplaced insults, stereotyping, and bullying.

[MaxCrushmore]

In my exp, the GI is not unbalanced ... I typically play gold PUGs almost exclusive and it is very rare for someone using a GI to score well, over 100's of games I believe I have seen 1 player use a GI with good effect.

This character requires a huge amount of skill and experience to use effectively. Most beginners trying to use this die constantly and do not score well. It takes a deep understanding of game mechanics, experience with how not to get hit, and excellent accuracy.

Once you have these things down, you will ROFLSTOMP due to the ridiculous damage output. That is balanced by the inability to absorb any damage whatsoever. Only shield & health gates keep this character alive. I bet at least %95 of people who play this game will never be able to use this character effectively.

PS. I find the Kroguard to have great survivability, but not close to the best damage output. And I have seen many TGI's w/harriers which are not good at all ...

[Dorick]

Cyonan wrote...

Dorick wrote...
Wow I didnt say I looked down on Missile glitchers did I? I look at the missile glitchers as ruining a match. I didnt say anything at all about how i feel about the people using the glitch. But you jumped the gun and called me an elitist. That was really lame. 

And tell me, how exactly do they ruin your match by using a character that is easier to play but not actually the highest in terms of potential?

As i've said before, they are unbalanced characters. Potential is an argument that depends on a lot of theory, like IF the character doesnt go down, IF there are certain conditions to the match. Practically speaking the ease of the kroguard in regular conditions doesnt depend on having a set team using a set plan, he has advantages in the majority of situations due to unbalanced game mechanics.

[Original Twigman]

Dorick wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Dorick wrote...
Wow I didnt say I looked down on Missile glitchers did I? I look at the missile glitchers as ruining a match. I didnt say anything at all about how i feel about the people using the glitch. But you jumped the gun and called me an elitist. That was really lame. 

And tell me, how exactly do they ruin your match by using a character that is easier to play but not actually the highest in terms of potential?

As i've said before, they are unbalanced characters. Potential is an argument that depends on a lot of theory, like IF the character doesnt go down, IF there are certain conditions to the match. Practically speaking the ease of the kroguard in regular conditions doesnt depend on having a set team using a set plan, he has advantages in the majority of situations due to unbalanced game mechanics.

Balance =/= Equal. You have your squishy characters, you have your tanks... Don't know why you argue Overpowered, when that is a feature of balance (just as underpowered is), not equality.

[Thrasher91604]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Elitists get pissy if you tie or overtake their score.

Apart from that depends on how much of a noob you really are.

[Dorick]

Original Stikman wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Dorick wrote...
Wow I didnt say I looked down on Missile glitchers did I? I look at the missile glitchers as ruining a match. I didnt say anything at all about how i feel about the people using the glitch. But you jumped the gun and called me an elitist. That was really lame. 

And tell me, how exactly do they ruin your match by using a character that is easier to play but not actually the highest in terms of potential?

As i've said before, they are unbalanced characters. Potential is an argument that depends on a lot of theory, like IF the character doesnt go down, IF there are certain conditions to the match. Practically speaking the ease of the kroguard in regular conditions doesnt depend on having a set team using a set plan, he has advantages in the majority of situations due to unbalanced game mechanics.

Balance =/= Equal. You have your squishy characters, you have your tanks... Don't know why you argue Overpowered, when that is a feature of balance (just as underpowered is), not equality.

You are essentially sticking to the damage potential argument. Survivability is key to continuous damage output. A character like the kroguard, or the TGI have such heavy advantages in survivability, that not only is that unbalanced, but they will typically score better because of it as well. Also, the TGI has hard to beat damage stacking anyways, soooo.

Modifié par Dorick, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:01 .

[JediHarbinger]

Dorick wrote...

TehPwnzor52 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

I think the TGI + Harrier is overpowered, but I don't get mad because how dare somebody use something powerful on "my" difficulty. Sure I might encourage them to play other classes for the sake of variety, and I might laugh if they start bragging about how amazing they are at this game, but I'm not going to go thinking less of them because they happen to be playing the TGI.

This is exactly what I mean. It's not whether or not something is OP. It's how the 'elitists' are responding to people playing as said OP classes.

I feel the same way about the kroguard, TGI, and GI as I do about missile glitchers. 

Wow, just wow. Now I've heard everything. 

[COLZ7R]

Sooooo, you think kroguard/tgi/gi/missile glitchers are all in the same class? You do know missile glitchers do get banned for cheating and the rest of your list are legitamate toons that bioware put in place on purpose? Is their a list somewhere in the elite/wannabe handbook that says what classes/wep combos that are allowed
Also look at the tone of your posts and tell me that they dont reek off arrogance. If english aint your first language its understandabe, if it is......

[Dorick]

JediHarbinger wrote...

Dorick wrote...

TehPwnzor52 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

I think the TGI + Harrier is overpowered, but I don't get mad because how dare somebody use something powerful on "my" difficulty. Sure I might encourage them to play other classes for the sake of variety, and I might laugh if they start bragging about how amazing they are at this game, but I'm not going to go thinking less of them because they happen to be playing the TGI.

This is exactly what I mean. It's not whether or not something is OP. It's how the 'elitists' are responding to people playing as said OP classes.

I feel the same way about the kroguard, TGI, and GI as I do about missile glitchers. 

Wow, just wow. Now I've heard everything. 

I feel that way because the match is essentially going to be boring drivel