593 réponses à ce sujet

[AkuIaTubShark]

Dorick wrote...

TehPwnzor52 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

I think the TGI + Harrier is overpowered, but I don't get mad because how dare somebody use something powerful on "my" difficulty. Sure I might encourage them to play other classes for the sake of variety, and I might laugh if they start bragging about how amazing they are at this game, but I'm not going to go thinking less of them because they happen to be playing the TGI.

This is exactly what I mean. It's not whether or not something is OP. It's how the 'elitists' are responding to people playing as said OP classes.

I feel the same way about the kroguard, TGI, and GI as I do about missile glitchers. 

So, I gotta ask. How often do you see a good/effective GI in a PuG game? 
Personally, in all my Gold/Plat PuG games I've done, I've only ever seen 3-4 good GI's that could go more then .25% of a wave before going down. 
Not attempting to be a smart arse or anything, but a serious question.

[megabeast37215]

blissgirl9 wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...

monkeyhunter wrote...

Some people like a challenge, like dance with brutes or banshees. Then some GI joins, melting everything in 2 seconds. Bye fun, it's like beating up a 5y/o (lol).
Don't respond with something like, play solo if you want a challenge.

Your dancing.... it takes too long. Trying to get paid here....

Leads one to wonder just what you do with all the money you make...and is "fun" necessarily always or ever "honorable"?  

Hoard more consumables... save it for future DLC. I burn through the gear...

Fun with Bliss is never 'honorable'.... but ohh so memorable

[JediHarbinger]

Yeah cuz missile glitching and playing TGI, GI or any class you deem "OP" are the same right?

[IllusiveManJr]

I don't really have a problem with players using them. But when I see a TGI w/Harrier in a lobby (which is becoming a common sight on public Gold games) I get my backpack out.

[JSDude]

Crutch characters are for people that want to play gold/platinium, but just don't have the skill level to play that kind of difficulty. And yes, certain kind of classes like the Kroguard or TGI or GI are better overall doesn't mean they have to be balanced. They're more or less starter kits, and as your skill level increases you can play more advanced kits like Turian Enigineer or the Fury. These kits need more skill if you want to play them effeciently. For me personal, I like those kits more than for example the TGI because you challenge yourself. The reward is higher for me when I top the scoreboard with a Vorcha Enigineer than when I top the board with a GI. It's indeed frustating that someone with little experience and skill can top the board with kits as fore said.

[Cyonan]

Dorick wrote...
As i've said before, they are unbalanced characters. Potential is an argument that depends on a lot of theory, like IF the character doesnt go down, IF there are certain conditions to the match. Practically speaking the ease of the kroguard in regular conditions doesnt depend on having a set team using a set plan, he has advantages in the majority of situations due to unbalanced game mechanics.

Other characters will however, have higher damage output, and a skilled player no longer needs a highly durable character to stay alive.

So we have an easier to play character that doesn't do as much damage, and once somebody becomes skilled the lower durability of other characters don't mean a whole lot. A skilled player will do better with another character than an average player will with the Krogan Vanguard.

Why exactly does this ruin your game?

[Original Twigman]

Dorick wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Dorick wrote...
Wow I didnt say I looked down on Missile glitchers did I? I look at the missile glitchers as ruining a match. I didnt say anything at all about how i feel about the people using the glitch. But you jumped the gun and called me an elitist. That was really lame. 

And tell me, how exactly do they ruin your match by using a character that is easier to play but not actually the highest in terms of potential?

As i've said before, they are unbalanced characters. Potential is an argument that depends on a lot of theory, like IF the character doesnt go down, IF there are certain conditions to the match. Practically speaking the ease of the kroguard in regular conditions doesnt depend on having a set team using a set plan, he has advantages in the majority of situations due to unbalanced game mechanics.

Balance =/= Equal. You have your squishy characters, you have your tanks... Don't know why you argue Overpowered, when that is a feature of balance (just as underpowered is), not equality.

You are essentially sticking to the damage potential argument. Survivability is key to continuous damage output. A character like the kroguard, or the TGI have such heavy advantages in survivability, that not only is that unbalanced, but they will typically score better because of it as well. Also, the TGI has hard to beat damage stacking anyways, soooo.

No. I said balance =/= equal. While I can appreciate you trying to make an argument, it doesn't help for you to say that I am making an argument and then counter it with something that doesn't relate to what I said.

Balance=/= equality. There are "OP" classes and there are Underpowered classes... So some classes will be easier than others to be "good" with.

Modifié par Original Stikman, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:09 .

[Dorick]

COLZ7R wrote...

Sooooo, you think kroguard/tgi/gi/missile glitchers are all in the same class? You do know missile glitchers do get banned for cheating and the rest of your list are legitamate toons that bioware put in place on purpose? Is their a list somewhere in the elite/wannabe handbook that says what classes/wep combos that are allowed
Also look at the tone of your posts and tell me that they dont reek off arrogance. If english aint your first language its understandabe, if it is......

Arrogance and defending your arguments are different. You can't call someone arrogant in a debate just because they wont agree with you. I am open minded and impartial to opinions. I apologize if I wasn't more...empathic?

Also, I feel like the game will be boring when I go into a lobby with the GI, TGI, or Kroguard, thats what I meant when I compared those characters to the missile glitch. 

Modifié par Dorick, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:07 .

[Dorick]

Cyonan wrote...

Dorick wrote...
As i've said before, they are unbalanced characters. Potential is an argument that depends on a lot of theory, like IF the character doesnt go down, IF there are certain conditions to the match. Practically speaking the ease of the kroguard in regular conditions doesnt depend on having a set team using a set plan, he has advantages in the majority of situations due to unbalanced game mechanics.

Other characters will however, have higher damage output, and a skilled player no longer needs a highly durable character to stay alive.

So we have an easier to play character that doesn't do as much damage, and once somebody becomes skilled the lower durability of other characters don't mean a whole lot. A skilled player will do better with another character than an average player will with the Krogan Vanguard.

Why exactly does this ruin your game?

I use platinum mode as a reference when I am measuring character balance, since I only play U/U/P. Even a skilled player can be overrun in a platinum match, survivability like the kroguards makes a serious difference when you are fighting on a small map like glacier. 

I consider myself a skilled player, when you compare drell vanguard to the krogan vanguard it stops being about skill and it starts being about game mechanics. 

I enjoy playing balanced games because I analyze everything going on in the game to improve my performance. When I am being outplayed and I suspect it is a game mechanic (like having two queens instead of one), I consider that the game is unbalanced. A balanced game is part of the fun for me. And any serious game goes through a lot of trouble to keep game balance. 

EDIT: its not just about being outscored btw, I genuinely like this game and want to have fun while using all variety, except I have zero fun when playing what is clearly an OP character. I want those character nerfed to a point of balance so I can go back to enjoying them. I ENJOY CHALLENGE.

Modifié par Dorick, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:17 .

[JediHarbinger]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I don't really have a problem with players using them. But when I see a TGI w/Harrier in a lobby (which is becoming a common sight on public Gold games) I get my backpack out.

no!!! My favorite Illusive man clone can't possibly think this way. I love rocking that combo in gold and platinum. I can play any character well but I am a fan of TGI and play him a lot. But he is powerful at what it does and it definitely rubs people the wrong way, I can understand that. You still rock Illusive Man Jr.  

Modifié par JediHarbinger, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:20 .

[IllusiveManJr]

I've seen some worrying TGIs. Harrier IV with Stability mod and Thermal Scope. TGIs using only a Harrier with Adaptive War Amp and a Shotgun Amp III. Explosive rounds. It's scary.

[COLZ7R]

Why would it be boaring? Its not like they are spawn nuking with any of those toons and nobody has anything left to kill.
You dont come across as even close to being open minded, you point blank state thet those toons are as bad as playing with someone who bloody cheats.

[Dorick]

Anyways, i have to go now. please have the last word!

[JediHarbinger]

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I've seen some worrying TGIs. Harrier IV with Stability mod and Thermal Scope. TGIs using only a Harrier with Adaptive War Amp and a Shotgun Amp III. Explosive rounds. It's scary.

war amps?! Stability mods?! Those guys really do have a relaxed brain! I would run for the hills with you then. I see your point. 

[Cyonan]

Dorick wrote...
I use platinum mode as a reference when I am measuring character balance, since I only play U/U/P. Even a skilled player can be overrun in a platinum match, survivability like the kroguards makes a serious difference when you are fighting on a small map like glacier.

I consider myself a skilled player, when you compare drell vanguard to the krogan vanguard it stops being about skill and it starts being about game mechanics.

That's where the skill comes in. The Kroguard will be able to take more hits until the sync kill mobs show up, while the Drellguard will be able to be somewhere that isn't there within about 2 seconds.

This is not to say that the Drellguard will survive any and all situations in the hands of a skilled player, merely that they can survive really well if you are playing him like a Drell and not a Krogan, and are a skilled player.

The Drellguard can get into an area, deal massive AoE damage, then be on the other side of the map while the Krogan Vanguard is still working on the second mob.

Out of curiosity, do you find N7 Paladin + Geth Engineer or skilled Drell Adepts/Batarian Soldiers boring when in your games?

[JediHarbinger]

Dorick wrote...

Anyways, i have to go now. please have the last word!

Game. Set. Match. 

You lose 

[Dorick]

COLZ7R wrote...

Why would it be boaring? Its not like they are spawn nuking with any of those toons and nobody has anything left to kill.
You dont come across as even close to being open minded, you point blank state thet those toons are as bad as playing with someone who bloody cheats.

Its boring playing any unbalanced game. 
I argue a lot, I am very open minded and many of my opinions are formed from the thoughts of others. I stick to the arguments because it forces the person I am arguing with to further define and distinguish their  point. I will switch opinions if I am wrong, and I do so quickly.

The reality is that Kroguard and TGI are OP, and most of the arguments here have been about whether they should be nerfed, and also who is an elitist. 

I havent heard many good arguments describing how they arent unbalanced, and thats probably because ther ARE unbalanced. 

Anyways, yeah I have to go now. 

[COLZ7R]

And saying something is "clearlly op" and wanting it nerffed to the point YOU find it fun when the vast majority of people who use those toons still drop like flys in the first 3 waves of a gold match IS arrogant

[Original Twigman]

Dorick wrote...

COLZ7R wrote...

Why would it be boaring? Its not like they are spawn nuking with any of those toons and nobody has anything left to kill.
You dont come across as even close to being open minded, you point blank state thet those toons are as bad as playing with someone who bloody cheats.

Its boring playing any unbalanced game. 
I argue a lot, I am very open minded and many of my opinions are formed from the thoughts of others. I stick to the arguments because it forces the person I am arguing with to further define and distinguish their  point. I will switch opinions if I am wrong, and I do so quickly.

The reality is that Kroguard and TGI are OP, and most of the arguments here have been about whether they should be nerfed, and also who is an elitist. 

I havent heard many good arguments describing how they arent unbalanced, and thats probably because ther ARE unbalanced. 

Anyways, yeah I have to go now. 

To be honest, you didn't address the balance not equaling "equality" argument that pretty much undermines the grounds your argument stands on. If you want to believe that you "force" others to further define and distinguish your point, then you need to be able to address yours.

A balanced game will not have equally viable characters.

[Homey C-Dawg]

How did krogaurd get lumped into this? Kroguard is only OP against geth. Against reapers and collectors there are many many more powerful characters that are much less of a liability than him.

[Bechter]

JediHarbinger wrote...

theillusiveman11 wrote...

I've seen some worrying TGIs. Harrier IV with Stability mod and Thermal Scope. TGIs using only a Harrier with Adaptive War Amp and a Shotgun Amp III. Explosive rounds. It's scary.

war amps?! Stability mods?! Those guys really do have a relaxed brain! I would run for the hills with you then. I see your point. 

Its a glitch only known by elite players that when equipped on a turian ghost you set up a biotic explosion everytime you use a Stim Packs.

I shouldn't of let that out into the public!  now the elitist horde will blow up bsn about the double noob toob stim packs invicibility with a biotic explosion.

[Dorick]

Original Stikman wrote...
A balanced game will not have equally viable characters.

What?

Anyways Seriously I'm leaving now, I'm leaving my laptop on the floor and I'm walking to my car.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

None. That is the problem. That is why I like them. I feel better when others are playing these characters because I know that my work load will be reduced.

So much this....

The idiotic attitude we have towards a particular class or weapon comes from Elitists...just ignore them & play however you like...

[Cyonan]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

How did krogaurd get lumped into this? Kroguard is only OP against geth. Against reapers and collectors there are many many more powerful characters that are much less of a liability than him.

I imagine it's because of what he can do against the Geth.

His damage output is actually pretty poor if you aren't using the Reegar.

but that's more the fault of the Reegar than it is the Kroguard.

[FromTheAlps]

People scoring low in games: People complain about bad PUGs on the BSN and post pictures of the scoreboards showing how they had to carry a game once again.

People using easier classes trying to help more and to stay alive longer: People on the BSN are complaining about how noobs with crutch characters taking the fun out of the game.

Sometimes just reading this BS makes me puke.

PS: A lot of people here are not that way and I really like to read all their posts.