593 réponses à ce sujet

[Bechter]

Dorick wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...
A balanced game will not have equally viable characters.

What?

Anyways Seriously I'm leaving now, I'm leaving my laptop on the floor and I'm walking to my car.

Please tell me your leaving one more time.

[Original Twigman]

Bechter wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...
A balanced game will not have equally viable characters.

What?

Anyways Seriously I'm leaving now, I'm leaving my laptop on the floor and I'm walking to my car.

Please tell me your leaving one more time.

lol, still can't address the loophole in the argument

Modifié par Original Stikman, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:36 .

[Beeno4Life]

Feneckus wrote...

I get pissed when my grenade class can't find grenades because the TGI needed his noob packs to stay alive.

Also, balance.

Is it fair that I do less damage with overload on my Human Engineer + Power Amplifier III specced for power damage than a TGI with no equipment and specced for weapon damage ? Hell no.

Uh, yes? Human engineer is a starting class, and is SUPPOSED to be less powerful than the uncommon or rare classes, just the like the weapon grading system. Also, weapon-skilled classes will always excel when they use a powerful weapon.

[lightswitch]

Dorick wrote...

To lightswitch: how is that not a fair comparison? The whole question is whether these characters are balanced, I bring up two that will be underwhelming when facing off vs four TGI's and you say that's not a fair comparison??? What you meant to say was that the Turian ghost is OP compared to the other two new turians. 

*snip*

No. What I meant to say is that the Saboteur is underpowered compared to most of the kits in this game. Pretty much four of anything should have a faster clear than four Saboteurs. Four TSents are considerably more powerful, much less TGIs.

[Cyonan]

Beeno4Life wrote...

Uh, yes? Human engineer is a starting class, and is SUPPOSED to be less powerful than the uncommon or rare classes, just the like the weapon grading system. Also, weapon-skilled classes will always excel when they use a powerful weapon.

Characters don't function under that tier system.

If they did the Human Soldier has a lot to answer for.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

I get pissed when my grenade class can't find grenades because the TGI needed his noob packs to stay alive.

Also, balance.

+1

Also, it's interesting how many people are inclined to say that we hate clutch classes because we've been outscored by them.

Last time I was outscored by some clown using clutch was....

Oh yeah, it didn't happen.

Embarassingly enough I've even beaten TGIs with a melee specced demolisher.

n00b / crutch classes ****** me off not because they've ever come close to outscoring me, but because they owe their entire score to whatever crutch they happen to be using; NOT to any skill they have. And frequently they do things which annoy you or restrict MY ability to play. Standing behind me spamming biotic slash, or flamer so my screen is shaking, or I can't see the enemies is utterly moronic.

Call me an elitist, whatever you like. I'll be over here doubling your score on my vorcha engineer.

Since when this game requires skill ? It's just :-

-Point, shoot 
-Point, activate power, shoot
-Grenade spam
-Grenade spam, shoot
-Grenade spam, melee
-Activate power, grenade spam,
-Melee, shoot
-Melee
-Spawn nuking

This game is made to have fun & get frusturated at the same time. Not to test your skill in anything. A game is challenging when it requires you to think ...This game does not have that...

Modifié par The Sin, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:41 .

[Kushiel42]

On the design side, it's because overplayed kits tend to get nerfed in ways that reduce the strength of less-played kits.

On the actual play side, it's just a little boring to always see the same kits, often using the same weapons, in lobby after lobby. The Harrier TGI is really the only one that gives me the eyerolls these days, thankfully, but it seems like nearly every lobby has at least one of them.

[Blarg]

Good question, actually. When I think about it, I have no problems with crutch items in-game. Though I don't usually enjoy playing them, and in my experience PUGs suck just as bad when using them.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Also, too many people playing crutch characters leads to legit things being nerfed.

TGI --> Havoc
GI --> Geth Engineer
Tactical Cloak --> Krysae
Tactical Cloak/Devastator Mode --> Piranha
Farming --> Smash, Sabotage

+ combat drone

+ decoy

Neither of the above would have been touched if firebase white farming using salarian engineer decoy as clutch hadn't been so widespread.

Again...what is wrong with farming...? I do not farm because I lack the patience for it...I usually use run & gun characters like Drell, Valkyrie, Shadow... But there are some people who want to farm so why not ? They are not cheating in any way, they are just exploiting the conditions of a map..just like what we do when we reload cancel  or run with the pizza...we exploit the condition of the reload mechanic...

[megabeast37215]

Cyonan wrote...

Beeno4Life wrote...

Uh, yes? Human engineer is a starting class, and is SUPPOSED to be less powerful than the uncommon or rare classes, just the like the weapon grading system. Also, weapon-skilled classes will always excel when they use a powerful weapon.

Characters don't function under that tier system.

If they did the Human Soldier has a lot to answer for.

So does the Human Adept, Novaguard and Human Engi... all are very good classes with very few flaws.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Dark Tlaloc wrote...

I look at it like this: This is a war, right? The object is to extract, and help your teammates as much as possible, correct? So then why wouldn’t you use a powerful character, if you wanted to? I’m pretty sure the Avengers don’t feel guilty using the Hulk to “SMASH!” because he’s too OP.


Then again, they don’t have scoreboards or challenges to worry about. Or internet forums. =0p

[Blarg]

So, what would BSN think if a skilled player decided they prefer crutch weapons/classes, because they enjoy them more? They could still do just as well with anything else, but prefer to play with a crutch. Would they still be called a noob?

Just food for thought. Listen to yourselves, BSN. You're indoctrinated.

[Cyonan]

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

So, what would BSN think if a skilled player decided they prefer crutch weapons/classes, because they enjoy them more? They could still do just as well with anything else, but prefer to play with a crutch. Would they still be called a noob?

Just food for thought. Listen to yourselves, BSN. You're indoctrinated.

I bet they would still be called a noob.

[UnknownMercenary]

I care because of the insane power creep that's coming up.

I can't do anything to change it so I just live with it, since awful players still consistently fail with OP characters.

[Muhkida]

To the OPs question : simple, petty elitism.

People don't like it when others use overpowered kits to compensate for one's lack of skill. The elitists feel as if players being labelled as such should "know their role" and stick to an easier difficulty because they probably don't stand a chance of survival without using a TGI, Kroguard, etc....

I understand the need of balance, and setting up some kind of embargo from ever using such OP characters is fine by me. But calling other people scrubs, noobs, or whatever is just plain pathetic.....unless these people are acting like douches.

In the end though, it's not like someone is 1-shotting you with an Arctic Warfare Police seven seconds from when the match begins...or playing Cable/Commando/IronMan as you stick with Ryu/Ken/Akuma. So I don't see what the issue is here.

[JewelsWinnfield]

The Sin wrote...

Since when this game requires skill ? It's just :-

-Point, shoot 
-Point, activate power, shoot
-Grenade spam
-Grenade spam, shoot
-Grenade spam, melee
-Activate power, grenade spam,
-Melee, shoot
-Melee
-Spawn nuking

This game is made to have fun & get frusturated at the same time. Not to test your skill in anything. A game is challenging when it requires you to think ...This game does not have that...

If this is all what it takes, then why are there so many people who fail horribly in Platinum (and even Gold)?

On topic: I don't care what my teammates play, as long as they contribute to the team. However, sometimes it can be very annoying for a Grenade class to play with a TGI.

[Maria Caliban]

Whatever your opinion, if you actually suggest others are 'indoctrinated,' your keyboard should be smashed and your internet taken away.

/signed Maria. Who plays TGI 95% of the time.

[Dunvi]

You guys are all wrong.

Why do I dislike seeing Kroguard Reegar and TGI Harrier? Because they give people a false sense of competence. The vast majority of TGI Harriers (especially Harrier I) in gold (and platinum) massively suck. They manage to score the absolute lowest (regardless of their massive damage potential)* and go down constantly (despite their lolstim packs). Similarly, Kroguard Reegar, almost every single time, gets synced each wave starting wave 4.

What's going on? These are players probably coming from silver who got this cool new character/weapon and destroyed on their usual difficulty with it. Doubled scores, carried 5 waves, whatever. "I must be gold ready!" says the poor random. No. You aren't.

Incidentally, I haven't yet met a TGI Saber who wasn't very good and very competent. I would wager a guess that competent players generally put a non-Harrier weapon on the TGI.

Modifié par Dunvi, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:11 .

[Blarg]

Cyonan wrote...

blaaaaaaaaaarg wrote...

So, what would BSN think if a skilled player decided they prefer crutch weapons/classes, because they enjoy them more? They could still do just as well with anything else, but prefer to play with a crutch. Would they still be called a noob?

Just food for thought. Listen to yourselves, BSN. You're indoctrinated.

I bet they would still be called a noob.

Probably. Because BSN.

[Bechter]

Quick question if you solo a wave for your team in a pug with krogan vanguard, turian ghost inf, or geth inf Did you clutch it or did you just crutch it? I need to know what term we should use in this scenario.

Also

If i use a cloakless Turian Inf or a stardusk chargeless vanguard can I be let into the cool kids club where horrible ideas are held high.

Modifié par Bechter, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:21 .

[Original Twigman]

Bechter wrote...
If i use a cloakless Turian Inf or a stardusk chargeless vanguard can I be let into the cool kids club where horrible ideas are held high.

Yes, you can join

[123456654321]

Original Stikman wrote...

Bechter wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...
A balanced game will not have equally viable characters.

What?

Anyways Seriously I'm leaving now, I'm leaving my laptop on the floor and I'm walking to my car.

Please tell me your leaving one more time.

lol, still can't address the loophole in the argument

http://extra-credits.net/episodes/perfect-imbalance/

Watch. Learn.

[joker_jack]

The Sin wrote...

Annomander wrote...

Feneckus wrote...

Also, too many people playing crutch characters leads to legit things being nerfed.

TGI --> Havoc
GI --> Geth Engineer
Tactical Cloak --> Krysae
Tactical Cloak/Devastator Mode --> Piranha
Farming --> Smash, Sabotage

+ combat drone

+ decoy

Neither of the above would have been touched if firebase white farming using salarian engineer decoy as clutch hadn't been so widespread.

Again...what is wrong with farming...? I do not farm because I lack the patience for it...I usually use run & gun characters like Drell, Valkyrie, Shadow... But there are some people who want to farm so why not ? They are not cheating in any way, they are just exploiting the conditions of a map..just like what we do when we reload cancel  or run with the pizza...we exploit the condition of the reload mechanic...

I think you have to remember, pc player a********s. Thankfully alot of them have been banned over the last fews ban waves.:innocent:

[RustyBuckets02]

Dunvi wrote...

You guys are all wrong.

Why do I dislike seeing Kroguard Reegar and TGI Harrier? Because they give people a false sense of competence. The vast majority of TGI Harriers (especially Harrier I) in gold (and platinum) massively suck. They manage to score the absolute lowest (regardless of their massive damage potential)* and go down constantly (despite their lolstim packs). Similarly, Kroguard Reegar, almost every single time, gets synced each wave starting wave 4.

This man speaks the truth. I actually think the Kroguard, TGI and especially the GI are a bit of a trap for new players. I think many hear how good they are, take them into Gold and get promptly squished. If someone isn't ready for Gold, using one of these characters isn't going to help them at all.

Until I read this thread I always thought crutch characters were an individual thing, as in your personal best characters. Ones that you could take into a game knowing that, however bad your team were, you could drag their sorry carcasses to at least wave 7 and get a JEP at the end for your troubles. Just me?

[Original Twigman]

123456654321 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

Bechter wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...
A balanced game will not have equally viable characters.

What?

Anyways Seriously I'm leaving now, I'm leaving my laptop on the floor and I'm walking to my car.

Please tell me your leaving one more time.

lol, still can't address the loophole in the argument

http://extra-credits.net/episodes/perfect-imbalance/

Watch. Learn.

isn't this exactly my point?

Edit: good vid btw

Modifié par Original Stikman, 18 janvier 2013 - 12:18 .