61 réponses à ce sujet

[xSNPx ZoDiaC]

Collector thralls? I assume Leviathon makes this plausible? I haven't played Leviathan so don't spoil any details, a generic answer will suffice.

Collector thralls can therefore be an alternative to playable Protheans.

[Vortex13]

xSNPx ZoDiaC wrote...

Collector thralls? I assume Leviathon makes this plausible? I haven't played Leviathan so don't spoil any details, a generic answer will suffice.

Collector thralls can therefore be an alternative to playable Protheans.

In answer to your question about Leviathian, yes.

[cramycram]

Bioware doing extra work. That's a funny one.

[Trav-O]

While new characters are always a plus, I'd rather have something else with existing content. I'm still surprised the existing Batarian/Krogan/vorcha/human models and Blue Suns Mechs from ME2 haven't been cobbled together as some kind of terrorist cell to fight against. I appreciate adding the Collectors, but I still want another enemy to fight before its all over.

[Vortex13]

Trav-O wrote...

While new characters are always a plus, I'd rather have something else with existing content. I'm still surprised the existing Batarian/Krogan/vorcha/human models and Blue Suns Mechs from ME2 haven't been cobbled together as some kind of terrorist cell to fight against. I appreciate adding the Collectors, but I still want another enemy to fight before its all over.

I hear you on another faction to fight; I'm totally behind their inclusion.

I just would like to play as new character kits that are not 'redos' of the current models and powers we already have.

Modifié par Vortex13, 19 janvier 2013 - 10:50 .

[Sabbatine]

Vortex13 wrote...

1.[/b] AIs take time to 'grow' and develope. Giving a newly created AI a gun and saying: "Charge that Reaper." would (IMO) not end very well. The organics, EDI, and the Geth are fully developed beings that have made the decision to join in the battle. You wouldn't send a child to fight this war anymore then you would a 'baby' AI. Not only would you run into problems of wildly divergent personalites that AIs would develope (some might be pacifists, others would disagree with Alliance orders), but you would also run into the issues of limited numbers. Geth platforms, as long as within wireless network range, can transmit out of a platform should it become damaged. The Rampart Mechs; being essentially upgraded VI security mechs; would not have that built in funcionality. Really, a mass producable fighting unit would serve, the frontlines far better than a one-of-a-kind (Each AI is unique) "Geth 2.0"

That's a fair point, but you are ignoring the fact that they aren't new AI's.  They were operating for an undisclosed period of time for Cerberus against Alliance (and other) forces.  For the purpose of lore, they could be like some of the Geth in ME2 that were under Reaper unfluence but were "fixed".  In this case it's possible the AI's would side with the Alliance in the face of the reaper threat in the interest of self preservation and perhaps looking to take vengeance on them for perceived enslavement by cerberus.

The other things you mentioned are all significant risks, but those risks pale in comparison to what's about to happen if they don't win the war so I think they'd be seen as acceptable risk

Vortex13 wrote...

2. Granted VIs cannot improvise, or create orignal ideas; but from a gameplay mechanics standpoint, they would fit the MP formula. If a VI is programed with a suite of warfare tactics (using cover, flanking attacks, assiting allies if they become incapacitated, ect.) it could operate in a 'believable' fashon on the battlefield. Obviously, within the lore such a program; even an adaptive one, would run into issues if the enemy started using unconventinal tactis. But when taken into the context of the current MP's survial 'rules' such a VI program could function effectively.

The scenario you describe sounds more like something that would be utilized in more conventional warfare.  VI's are great in simple situations where they need to guard something specific or complete a specific action with a predetermined path.  Traveling with a special forces team who will be facing unknown enemies with unknown objectives would be the worst possible environment for a VI.  A "baby" ai would be just as bad or worse, but they wouldn't have to be babies.

Vortex13 wrote...

3. I am kinda partial to the VIs over the AIs (of ME 3). I loved the conclusion of the Geth and EDI story arcs, but I am personally tired of the Pinoccio "I want to be a real boy!" evolution of AIs in Sci-Fi settings. I miss the simplicity (and awesomeness) of 'pure' robots like HK-47, the Necrons or the Terminators; a single minded machine that will not stop in its programed mission (in this case 'kill the bad guys') until it or they were dead.

These AI's don't need to be of that archetype.  Perhaps they are just fine with the way they are, or perhaps they have dreams of a future where all those sissy ai's who want to be biologicals are gone... along with all the biologicals, but for the time being have an alliance of convenience with the other races.  Or perhaps they could be like HK in the kotor games... synthetic and very happy to be synthetic because it's nice not having biological weaknesses.

Vortex13 wrote...

That is why I set up the Rampart Mech like I did, but like I said; I am fine with any lore backstory Bioware wants to go with, just as long as I can play as one.

I think the main issue would be player perception.  A VI doesn't really control what it does, it does what it was programmed to do.  An AI on the other hand is free to make mistakes (like players do) and ideally learn from them.  An AI could also have loyalties to the soldiers on the team over the mission objective and such.

Ultimately it would be fine either way but I think Bioware would try to avoid putting players into a situation that removes their skill from the equation even if it is just in the lore... but after the endings we got I don't think anything could be worse than what we've already experienced.

[Vortex13]

Sabbatine wrote...

Vortex13 wrote...

1.[/b] AIs take time to 'grow' and develope. Giving a newly created AI a gun and saying: "Charge that Reaper." would (IMO) not end very well. The organics, EDI, and the Geth are fully developed beings that have made the decision to join in the battle. You wouldn't send a child to fight this war anymore then you would a 'baby' AI. Not only would you run into problems of wildly divergent personalites that AIs would develope (some might be pacifists, others would disagree with Alliance orders), but you would also run into the issues of limited numbers. Geth platforms, as long as within wireless network range, can transmit out of a platform should it become damaged. The Rampart Mechs; being essentially upgraded VI security mechs; would not have that built in funcionality. Really, a mass producable fighting unit would serve, the frontlines far better than a one-of-a-kind (Each AI is unique) "Geth 2.0"

That's a fair point, but you are ignoring the fact that they aren't new AI's.  They were operating for an undisclosed period of time for Cerberus against Alliance (and other) forces.  For the purpose of lore, they could be like some of the Geth in ME2 that were under Reaper unfluence but were "fixed".  In this case it's possible the AI's would side with the Alliance in the face of the reaper threat in the interest of self preservation and perhaps looking to take vengeance on them for perceived enslavement by cerberus.

The other things you mentioned are all significant risks, but those risks pale in comparison to what's about to happen if they don't win the war so I think they'd be seen as acceptable risk

Vortex13 wrote...

2. Granted VIs cannot improvise, or create orignal ideas; but from a gameplay mechanics standpoint, they would fit the MP formula. If a VI is programed with a suite of warfare tactics (using cover, flanking attacks, assiting allies if they become incapacitated, ect.) it could operate in a 'believable' fashon on the battlefield. Obviously, within the lore such a program; even an adaptive one, would run into issues if the enemy started using unconventinal tactis. But when taken into the context of the current MP's survial 'rules' such a VI program could function effectively.

The scenario you describe sounds more like something that would be utilized in more conventional warfare.  VI's are great in simple situations where they need to guard something specific or complete a specific action with a predetermined path.  Traveling with a special forces team who will be facing unknown enemies with unknown objectives would be the worst possible environment for a VI.  A "baby" ai would be just as bad or worse, but they wouldn't have to be babies.

Vortex13 wrote...

3. I am kinda partial to the VIs over the AIs (of ME 3). I loved the conclusion of the Geth and EDI story arcs, but I am personally tired of the Pinoccio "I want to be a real boy!" evolution of AIs in Sci-Fi settings. I miss the simplicity (and awesomeness) of 'pure' robots like HK-47, the Necrons or the Terminators; a single minded machine that will not stop in its programed mission (in this case 'kill the bad guys') until it or they were dead.

These AI's don't need to be of that archetype.  Perhaps they are just fine with the way they are, or perhaps they have dreams of a future where all those sissy ai's who want to be biologicals are gone... along with all the biologicals, but for the time being have an alliance of convenience with the other races.  Or perhaps they could be like HK in the kotor games... synthetic and very happy to be synthetic because it's nice not having biological weaknesses.

Vortex13 wrote...

That is why I set up the Rampart Mech like I did, but like I said; I am fine with any lore backstory Bioware wants to go with, just as long as I can play as one.

I think the main issue would be player perception.  A VI doesn't really control what it does, it does what it was programmed to do.  An AI on the other hand is free to make mistakes (like players do) and ideally learn from them.  An AI could also have loyalties to the soldiers on the team over the mission objective and such.

Ultimately it would be fine either way but I think Bioware would try to avoid putting players into a situation that removes their skill from the equation even if it is just in the lore... but after the endings we got I don't think anything could be worse than what we've already experienced.

I can see your points, but I must agree to disagree. For me, a VI controled frontline unit would be the ideal solution for cheap, replaceable cannon fodder. A VI doen't automatically have to equal stupid and/or useless war asset.

IMO, a high end, military grade VI would operate just as well in the MP setting as an AI or organic would (fighting wise). Since the basic outline of the game mode is:

Hold this position, proceed to indicated objective, hold this position, proceed to indicated objective, hold this postion, proceed to indicated objective, hold this postion, and then proceed to extraction.

A VI operating under a warefare tactics program would still be able to function in such a situation. It wouldn't (IMO) hinder player skill from a lore perspective either, since the no other skill apart from fighting an enemy and surviving is required. If the MP had situations were the players had to make social or moral descisions I would agree with you, but really,the current lore and gameplay 'skill' required is to shoot at bad guys, and stay alive.

Kinda the same thing as the Collector Thrall concept; does the lore diminish player skill if they are playing as (estentially) an organic robot?

Modifié par Vortex13, 19 janvier 2013 - 11:33 .

[Vortex13]

Just replayed Omega last night, and I noticed something. The Rampart mechs actually DO take cover.

I never noticed it before since I always brought the Venom shotgun and one shoted everything.

[Charaxan]

Collectors are husks, plain and simple. Leviathan will change nothing, except maybe add a power to ONE PERSON (Shepard) and the power has a cool down and is temporary.

Not the same thing as geths, (two sides) cerberus (can get out before being changed/indoctrinated) or vorshas etc.

Collectors are HUSKS of proteans. Nothing more.

[mrcanada]

Anything with thrall in the name is silly, but I'm all for the other ideas. 

[Chameleonbot]

I'm sorry.

But playable Collectors have to be the dumbest idea out on BSN at the moment, I honestly don't understand how people can think they can make sense to be playable. (Or even want to.)
It will never happen.
Ever.

[Vortex13]

Chameleonbot wrote...

I'm sorry.

But playable Collectors have to be the dumbest idea out on BSN at the moment, I honestly don't understand how people can think they can make sense to be playable. (Or even want to.)
It will never happen.
Ever.

I don't know, a Collector Thrall would make more sense then MP Protheans IMO.

To each their own; personally I am indifferent with a Thrall class; I just want to play as a Rampart Mech.

[Woodstock504]

Nice ideas.  Especially the Mech.  but the collector. not so sure about it.  if it were possible to replace him with a true prothean... (Even though there're supposed to be only one left... I admit its a bad idea;)

my guy is Biowares' idea and is pretty simple too.  Just an

ex-Cerberus (corpsman) Engineer with shield pylon that shoots (turret),  and maybe Natural medigel transmitters when downed)
 
tech drone  with "maybe" just little (health support)

and either sabotage or overload.  

I'd like to try it.  take a little heat off Diamond matches. 

[Mjolinar]

I do like this idea of Rampart Mechs, but I was even wondering if they'd be considered Soldiers? BioWare has showed us how soldiers can have cool powers (Havoc Strike), and the promotional material always shows the Mechs out in the middle of the battlefield, which is something Engineers tend to not do. But then I guess it could be considered a Soldier-y Engineer. Semantics.

Nice thinking, and you (OP) re-wrote the OP, didn't you? (I didn't have that much issue with the length or formatting)

Looking forwards to the next DLC!

[Vortex13]

Mjolinar wrote...

I do like this idea of Rampart Mechs, but I was even wondering if they'd be considered Soldiers? BioWare has showed us how soldiers can have cool powers (Havoc Strike), and the promotional material always shows the Mechs out in the middle of the battlefield, which is something Engineers tend to not do. But then I guess it could be considered a Soldier-y Engineer. Semantics.

Nice thinking, and you (OP) re-wrote the OP, didn't you? (I didn't have that much issue with the length or formatting)

Looking forwards to the next DLC!

Well a full tech soldier (if that makes sense) would be an interesting take on the Rampart Mech. Really, a Soldier, Sentinel l, or Engineer would work, as long as we can play as one Im cool.

[Vortex13]

Woodstock504 wrote...

Nice ideas.  Especially the Mech.  but the collector. not so sure about it.  if it were possible to replace him with a true prothean... (Even though there're supposed to be only one left... I admit its a bad idea;)

my guy is Biowares' idea and is pretty simple too.  Just an

ex-Cerberus (corpsman) Engineer with shield pylon that shoots (turret),  and maybe Natural medigel transmitters when downed)
 
tech drone  with "maybe" just little (health support)

and either sabotage or overload.  

I'd like to try it.  take a little heat off Diamond matches. 

Thanks. An Ex-Cerberus Engineer huh? Sounds pretty cool; from your power selection you would be able to lock down areas pretty tight.

[Rusty Ey3]

Pretty nice. I love how you made Rampart Mechs to player class and of course Turian Females.
I hope Bioware adds these on next DLC.

[Clayless]

Charaxan wrote...

Collectors are husks, plain and simple. Leviathan will change nothing, except maybe add a power to ONE PERSON (Shepard) and the power has a cool down and is temporary.

Not the same thing as geths, (two sides) cerberus (can get out before being changed/indoctrinated) or vorshas etc.

Collectors are HUSKS of proteans. Nothing more.

Collector Thralls, controlled by intelligence.

Lore friendly and unique.

Modifié par Robosexual, 21 janvier 2013 - 11:04 .

[Vortex13]

Rusty Ey3 wrote...

Pretty nice. I love how you made Rampart Mechs to player class and of course Turian Females.
I hope Bioware adds these on next DLC.

Thanks. 

I just would really like a unique synthetic class for both astetics and lore reasons (give the VIs time to shine!) and the Rampart Mech would fit that criteria while at the same time not burdening Bioware to create something from scratch.

For the Turian females I could see Bioware making use of both of Nyreen's models. The hooded model for an adept Turian Cabal, and the armored model for a Soldier, or Sentinel.

[HolyAvenger]

Krogan and Turian females, yes. Mechs maybe. Collectors no.

[silverserfer28]

i think the mechs as an enemy and a mass effect 2 players pack with the characters from mass effect 2 in mass effect 3 multiplayer as playable characters,

[Vortex13]

silverserfer28 wrote...

i think the mechs as an enemy and a mass effect 2 players pack with the characters from mass effect 2 in mass effect 3 multiplayer as playable characters,

Having enemy Rampart mechs is cool.... As long as we can get a playable version as well.

Kinda like the Dragoon and Cerberus Phoenix classes; although if Cerberus got Rampart Mechs the other three factions would need something as well. 

Cerberus = Rampart Mech

Reapers = Adjutents (Yeah I know Cerberus controlled them in Omega, but really if the Reapers want something, Cerberus couldn't stop them)

Geth = ?

Collectors = ?

[Vortex13]

HolyAvenger wrote...

Krogan and Turian females, yes. Mechs maybe. Collectors no.

Only a maybe on Mechs? 

Just kidding; anyway why would Collectors not work? I am (like I said earlier) indifferent on their inclusion, but why would they not work? The post Leviathian lore states that Collectors (or any Reaper controlled husk) are vulnerable to Thrall-Dom; in fact that is what the Alliance were helping the Leviathians to do, enthrall Reaper forces.

Obviously a playable Brute would be out due to the restrictions of the MP, but (IMO) a playable Collector thrall would be more believable than Protheans.

Modifié par Vortex13, 21 janvier 2013 - 05:53 .

[silverserfer28]

it would be cool if we could play as protheans but the more that gets developt and made for mass effect 3 as in the latest DLC, omega the colletors and all the other free DLC we just want more it has to end one day but i hope that theres more to come but what has been developt for mass effect series is very gd impo

[Clayless]

Vortex13 wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

Krogan and Turian females, yes. Mechs maybe. Collectors no.

Only a maybe on Mechs? 

Just kidding; anyway why would Collectors not work? I am (like I said earlier) indifferent on their inclusion, but why would they not work? The post Leviathian lore states that Collectors (or any Reaper controlled husk) are vulnerable to Thrall-Dom; in fact that is what the Alliance were helping the Leviathians to do, enthrall Reaper forces.

Obviously a playable Brute would be out due to the restrictions of the MP, but (IMO) a playable Collector thrall would be more believable than Protheans.

You also get 400 war assets from Leviathan. To put that in perspective you only get 170 from Volus, 433 from Salarians or 260 (380 if you have completed Mass Effect: Infiltrator) from Ex-Cerberus. Oleg isn't Ex-Cerb but add another 30 on if you want to include him.

So basically Thralls would fit as they're making a large impact on the war.