390 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

So it's been almost a year since release, and many of us have different complaints when it comes to what they wanted to see in ME3, and what they want to see in future DLC.

But so far, the most common complaints are:

1- Lack of proper closure in endings.

2- Lack of Harbringer and collectors.

3- Better handling of ME2 character and possibly additional squadmates.

4- Lack of hub worlds

I've been seeing these complaints more than any others. People have been discussing these issues more than any others. There are some people that go off the wire and end up being more really immature and uncivil. But there have been a lot of constructive discussions about these as well.

But the problem is that to me, Bioware seems to be completely apathetic about these issues. They repeatedly stated that they don't want to provide anymore closure for the endings. I'm pretty sure they said that they have no plans to add additional hub worlds and squadmates. Nor do they seem to have interest in the ME2 characters along with Harbringer and the collectors.

So my question is not just to bioware but to everyone, what's left to talk about here? We're being asked by bioware to have "constructive" discussions about these issues, yet how can any of this be remotely constructive if the other side has a lack of enthusiasm and interest for those topics in the first place?

And to Bioware? What exactly do you want us to do in these forums? Because all that's left is people repeating the same things from the very beginning, along with people providing positive and negative constructive criticism that really hasn't been addressed in any way yet.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 17 janvier 2013 - 07:57 .

[Epique Phael767]

Too much Kai Leng

Too much "art"

Too many fetchquests

[VLX11387]

With EA, this won't happen but they should say: "F*ck... we need to go back to the drawing board with the entire franchise. People actually played all three games and pay attention kind of... "

[somecthemes]

Reason why Bioware doesn't follow up on these common complaints since the beginning:
Lack of real motivation. ME fans complain and moan when their fav character isn't available, when the missions seem to easy, too hard, or too short. Now while I can and have complained about these issues as well, it seems almost impossible to think they'll be resolved to a majority's wishes. At this point complaining would seem to only help in production planning for the next game.
So, any ideas for ME-4 might have a shot at being realized, but begging ME-3 better endings and revisions would seem a waste of time.

My best suggestion: I loved the running comedic commentary during the missions, it caught my attention in the DA series and made characters who'd never be in my party for gaming reasons worthwhile for their story elements. So including a ton more of that, giving more variety to what I assume would be many trips to hub cities in ME4, even on iterative visits, would probably be the main request I'd have.

[GreyLycanTrope]

You forgot the narrative being broken for certain play styles OP.
I have yet to see this point elaborated better than the following:
http://social.biowar...36/blog/218545/
http://social.biowar...36/blog/218742/
http://social.biowar...36/blog/218554/

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:28 .

[JamesFaith]

OP, main problem is, that purpose of constructive critique of finished piece isn't forcing author to change it, but pointing out his mistakes, so he can avoid them in FUTURE work.

So results of your points should be:

1. Better closure in next game.

2. Not completely abandon old theme from previous game.

3. Different access to squadmates.

4. More hub worlds.

These things would be used in next games, if BW want, but they definitely wouldn't make so big changes fans demanding in finished game.

[Clayless]

Most people wouldn't be able to converse with Bioware here OP. They would ask them a question, Bioware would answer, it wouldn't be the answer they wanted to hear so they would ignore it and/or turn it into a meme that they can use for the next (10 months at least so far) and/or attack and belittle Bioware.

[Grubas]

Robosexual wrote...

Most people wouldn't be able to converse with Bioware here OP. They would ask them a question, Bioware would answer, it wouldn't be the answer they wanted to hear so they would ignore it and/or turn it into a meme that they can use for the next (10 months at least so far) and/or attack and belittle Bioware.

This is a terrible excuse. 
Just have a look at the DA3 board. 

There is another reason. They know they screwed, but instead to come forward...

Seriously! Where are the devs of ME3? Fans are seeking a dialog since the game came out, and all we got til today are some blank PR-statements, screened questions and a fake interview. 

Isn't it disheartening that Devs are unwilling to defend their own work?

Are this the same people who will try to sell us ME4?
 

  

[Clayless]

Grubas wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Most people wouldn't be able to converse with Bioware here OP. They would ask them a question, Bioware would answer, it wouldn't be the answer they wanted to hear so they would ignore it and/or turn it into a meme that they can use for the next (10 months at least so far) and/or attack and belittle Bioware.

This is a terrible excuse. 
Just have a look at the DA3 board. 

There is another reason. They know they screwed, but instead to come forward...

Seriously! Where are the devs of ME3? Fans are seeking a dialog since the game came out, and all we got til today are some blank PR-statements, screened questions and a fake interview. 

Isn't it disheartening that Devs are unwilling to defend their own work?

Are this the same people who will try to sell us ME4?

DA3 is the next game, so the equivalent would be like Bioware speaking to us on the ME4 board.

And defend what? Why do they have to defend it? Who is attacking them in the first place that they need to defend?

That's why there can be no discussions around here. People have the mindset that Bioware need to come and "defend" against questions, which is not how it should be among fans and developers, but thanks to that mindset and all the people that will go crazy when they get an answer they don't like I don't blame Bioware for not bothering.

I would love to have discussions about the next DLC, put in some ideas and hear some feedback, even learn why they wrote certain character arcs or hearing about their favourite scenes and well, everything. But just look at what happens to DLC threads here. People, who aren't even going to buy it, will come and trash it, will derail every thread into an ending thread pointlessly, and will convince themselves they're somehow a victim against "the man". This place is getting better but it's still got a long way to go before it's on developer-customer discussion level.

[darkway1]

Honestly....this forum is all about feedback....I don't believe there's any real chance of a debate or discussion between fan and developer....even if the game was great......people don't have the time.

[Grubas]

Robosexual wrote...

Grubas wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Most people wouldn't be able to converse with Bioware here OP. They would ask them a question, Bioware would answer, it wouldn't be the answer they wanted to hear so they would ignore it and/or turn it into a meme that they can use for the next (10 months at least so far) and/or attack and belittle Bioware.

This is a terrible excuse. 
Just have a look at the DA3 board. 

There is another reason. They know they screwed, but instead to come forward...

Seriously! Where are the devs of ME3? Fans are seeking a dialog since the game came out, and all we got til today are some blank PR-statements, screened questions and a fake interview. 

Isn't it disheartening that Devs are unwilling to defend their own work?

Are this the same people who will try to sell us ME4?

DA3 is the next game, so the equivalent would be like Bioware speaking to us on the ME4 board.

And defend what? Why do they have to defend it? Who is attacking them in the first place that they need to defend?

That's why there can be no discussions around here. People have the mindset that Bioware need to come and "defend" against questions, which is not how it should be among fans and developers, but thanks to that mindset and all the people that will go crazy when they get an answer they don't like I don't blame Bioware for not bothering.

I would love to have discussions about the next DLC, put in some ideas and hear some feedback, even learn why they wrote certain character arcs or hearing about their favourite scenes and well, everything. But just look at what happens to DLC threads here. People, who aren't even going to buy it, will come and trash it, will derail every thread into an ending thread pointlessly, and will convince themselves they're somehow a victim against "the man". This place is getting better but it's still got a long way to go before it's on developer-customer discussion level.

Well you if you want a proper developer- community dialog, you have to do something for it. 
The ME3 team just spit out a product and treats the fans like they are no longer relevant.

almost a year after release you still think people are mad at the endings? I dont think its just about the endings. 

Again its sad that devs are to afraid to post on their own board. 

Btw, do you know who Sylf is?

Modifié par Grubas, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:56 .

[FlamingBoy]

Robosexual wrote...

Most people wouldn't be able to converse with Bioware here OP. They would ask them a question, Bioware would answer, it wouldn't be the answer they wanted to hear so they would ignore it and/or turn it into a meme that they can use for the next (10 months at least so far) and/or attack and belittle Bioware.

I highly doubt bioware is that petty (I mean, even my opinion of bioware is higher than this), but that would be a pathetically weak attempt of bioware to avoid criticism.

[Mogsam_]

darkway1 wrote...

Honestly....this forum is all about feedback....I don't believe there's any real chance of a debate or discussion between fan and developer....even if the game was great......people don't have the time.

You'd think that when you have over a years worth of threads that someone might make the time. 

Or organise something, like managing the community..

[VLX11387]

Mogsam_ wrote...

darkway1 wrote...

Honestly....this forum is all about feedback....I don't believe there's any real chance of a debate or discussion between fan and developer....even if the game was great......people don't have the time.

You'd think that when you have over a years worth of threads that someone might make the time. 

Or organise something, like managing the community..

They do manage the community: banning locking/threads that at least question the game design and letting people with nothing but praise have free reign. 

Modifié par VLX11387, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:12 .

[clarkusdarkus]

Most other devs on other major games come out and converse with they're fanbase, ME3 seems to make the devs unsure of they're own product, i mean come on that scripted inhouse interview was a joke, screening questions, vague PR.... I personally think they're embarrased and can't handle such questions and they honestly thought we'd be happy to gobble up day1 dlc, 31 fetch quests, videogame being too videogamey, 1hub, choices not mattering, ending travesty, ending the game with an advertisement for dlc( my personal fave as regards to shock), etc etc...

ME3 to this day is more remembered for its ending than winning GOTY/75 perfect scores.....it's tainted the game, the series, the devs, i wouldn't be surprised if they just want too sweep it under the carpet and move on......

Modifié par clarkusdarkus, 17 janvier 2013 - 11:30 .

[Clayless]

Grubas wrote...

Well you if you want a proper developer- community dialog, you have to do something for it. 
The ME3 team just spit out a product and treats the fans like they are no longer relevant.

almost a year after release you still think people are mad at the endings? I dont think its just about the endings. 

Again its sad that devs are to afraid to post on their own board. 

Btw, do you know who Sylf is?

Yes, people are still mad at the endings. Everything else, all this bad treatment you think Bioware are giving fans, is just a delusion brought upon by a weird victim mentality. No one believes that the developers not "defending" themselves from attack is somehow bad treatment against those that are attacking them, that's just absurd.

And no.

[JamesFaith]

VLX11387 wrote...
They do manage the community: banning locking/threads that at least question the game design and letting people with nothing but praise have free reign. 

Curious, if we had here free reign of people who praise BW, why positive threads were locked too?

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Adding a new, genuinely integrated squadmate to the finished game takes an ungodly amount of work. It requires a metric crap-ton of dialogue be recorded for all interactions that could feature the new squadmate (meaning a good portion of the VAs have to be called back in), a re-working of several cutscenes for the same reason, and the writing/developing of a character arc and subplot. It's really not feasible.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Re-working ME2 squadmates is also a bit touchy as some of them play pivotal, unalterable roles in their respective arcs that reach across the game. It could be done with some of them, sure, but then the question becomes that of "which?" and "how?" For example, what could you do with Jack or Samara past what's already transpired? Or Zaeed, what role could he play?

[Grubas]

Robosexual wrote...

Yes, people are still mad at the endings. Everything else, all this bad treatment you think Bioware are giving fans, is just a delusion brought upon by a weird victim mentality. No one believes that the developers not "defending" themselves from attack is somehow bad treatment against those that are attacking them, that's just absurd.

And no.

"defending" "arguing" "talking" "engaging in conversation" "enlighten".... "actively listen" and many more..

There are many ways for devs to come here and talk with fans. Fact is nothing like this happend, and will happen.

Look. The game was  a rushed mess. The conclusion dosnt add up. There are topics the ME3 team would like to avoid. They are not willing to talk about certain parts of the game. Probably ever" They even screen questions on conventions. Others do this too. But bw specifically did it regarding "the ending". 
They just hide and wait till people forget about it. 

No matter how nice and welcoming the BSN will be they will still remain silent, and give us this PR talk.

Modifié par Grubas, 18 janvier 2013 - 08:48 .

[Indy_S]

Which is the biggest shame. BioWare could have explained why the endings were awesome in their own minds but they didn't. They could have explained why they didn't feel it necessary to provide closure in the original ending but they didn't. They could have talked with their fans like many other game studios but they didn't. They no longer appear on their own forum. They've cut themselves off from the community they created. There is no reason for this.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Sure. But my biggest question is....what exactly is there left to say here? Bioware asks for our feedback, we give it to them in constructive ways, but they wave most of it off. But yet they still ask for our feedback. Like...what exactly do they want us to talk about here besides praising the game?

[Indy_S]

But it's not just BSN, it's every part of their community. This doesn't come across as a really mature way to handle the situation. And if they said 'well the fans started it', it still wouldn't be a mature way to handle it.

Really, it seems like they just slammed the door and started to sulk because some people called them names.

[Alien Number Six]

I thought the game was great. I wouldn't mind some of Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2's elements to return in Mass Effect 4. Some of the complaints have been reasonable. The endings where too short at first. Some of the complaints have been foolish. Whining about auto dialogue is pointless when you can turn it off. Some things about this game that were awesome never get mentioned. The combat was much better this time around. To be honest the game was rushed. The ending was unfinished. Let's hope next time around we get a Mass Effect game that combines the sandbox feel of Mass Effect with the writing of Mass Effect 2 and the combat of Mass Effect 3.