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#301
Fawx9

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dreamgazer wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

OniTYME wrote...

To those who say BW shouldnt or wont respond to us because of ill-conceived hostility, I have this to say: LOOK AT MP FORUM.

You see mostly polite discussions with the team and us joking around lightheartedly. Its what happens when the conversation goes two ways.


Or even the DA3 forums. You have fans talking with David Gaider and Allan pretty much all the time.


Again, the difference is the moral-horror folks.  MP and Gaider weren't accused of the same "revolting" writing.


Pretty sure they took a lot of heat with DA2. Sure not as much, but they've still come back to talk. More than we are getting at least.

#302
SpamBot2000

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As for Mr. Hudson's notorious 'A, B, C' promise, here is the question he was answering to:

"With the ending in Mass Effect 2, there were so many different variables and possibilities for the outcome and what could happen. As players reached the end, they started comparing notes and trying to figure out how it worked. A few months after it came out, we ran a chart in the magazine that showed the layout of how to get the different endings and how things happened. Is that same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?"

And Mr. Hudson answers: "Yeah, and I’d say much more so..." etc.

The chart referred to can be seen here: 

www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2010/06/04/how-to-save-or-kill-your-party-in-mass-effect-2.aspx

As you may be able to tell, it is all about the variables in the Suicide Mission. That's what Hudson was asked about when he said no A, B, C. And there was no "much more so" Suicide Mission part II, there was an A, B, C choice.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 21 janvier 2013 - 12:10 .


#303
TheRealJayDee

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I likely won't be able to post or read for the better part of the next day. I encourage everyone to help keep this thread open, cause I think there's some good discussion going on and hopefully Stan will return and provide some more insightful comments and answers.

So everyone please be respectful towards each other, and keep the discussion civil and on topic. And to the moderators: should individual posters disrespect the site rules and/or try to derail the thread - please try to deal with them indivdually before locking down the whole thread!

G'night folks, I'd be delighted to see you all here in this thread tomorrow! Image IPB

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 21 janvier 2013 - 12:11 .


#304
spirosz

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SpamBot2000 wrote...
And there was no "much more so" Suicide Mission part II, there was an A, B, C choice.


This hurts me.  

#305
ZLurps

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OniTYME wrote...

To those who say BW shouldnt or wont respond to us because of ill-conceived hostility, I have this to say: LOOK AT MP FORUM.

You see mostly polite discussions with the team and us joking around lightheartedly. Its what happens when the conversation goes two ways.


Good post. I really like how MP staff communicates with players. I can sometimes imagine they makes those silents sighs when they read nerfing threads and then counter nerfing threads and so on, but they are very much on what's the thrill. Folks looking to not only survive in MP but utterly destroying everything devs can throw at them and having fun while doing so. Damn there are guys making platinum speedruns without rockets, just for the challenge!

Sadly, what comes to this forum, I don't see anything like that happening here, don't see much point either.

#306
Grubas

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ZLurps wrote...

OniTYME wrote...

To those who say BW shouldnt or wont respond to us because of ill-conceived hostility, I have this to say: LOOK AT MP FORUM.

You see mostly polite discussions with the team and us joking around lightheartedly. Its what happens when the conversation goes two ways.


Good post. I really like how MP staff communicates with players. I can sometimes imagine they makes those silents sighs when they read nerfing threads and then counter nerfing threads and so on, but they are very much on what's the thrill. Folks looking to not only survive in MP but utterly destroying everything devs can throw at them and having fun while doing so. Damn there are guys making platinum speedruns without rockets, just for the challenge!

Sadly, what comes to this forum, I don't see anything like that happening here, don't see much point either.





Obviously MP has higher priority. Also do the devs get abused there by the fans? 
Because im looking for an example...

#307
Obadiah

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Let me just throw this out there about the ending:

Destroy: contains the threads of genocide
Control: contains the threads of tyranny
Synthesis: is conscious forced genetic tampering (as opposed to the natural viral kind we experience anyway).
Refuse: is the complete destruction of galactic civilization

Forgetting the fact the I believe that Destroy is not genocide, and tyranny isn't always bad, these are fairly divisive and poisonous subjects that the devs (these are fairly literate people) must know they put in the ending, and that people would argue about them.

What did they expect the reaction to be? What did they really expect that conversation from people with strong views on those subjects to look like?

The extreme responses of the community in this forum are kind of predictable:
- hey you, other player, are a terrible person for picking this ending
- hey devs, why did you force me to make one of these choices? You're XYZ.

Modifié par Obadiah, 21 janvier 2013 - 06:51 .


#308
Clayless

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SpamBot2000 wrote...

con·struc·tive 

adj. 1. Serving to improve or advance; helpful: constructive criticism.2. Of or relating to construction; structural.3. Law Based on an interpretation; not directly expressed.

rab·id  

adj. 1. Of or affected by rabies.2. Raging; uncontrollable: rabid thirst.3. Extremely zealous or enthusiastic; fanatical: a rabid football fan.



Englisch, she is difficult, ja?


Wait, do you think that if someone uses a word in the English language they use every definition of it at the same time?

#309
Guest_Catch This Fade_*

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Ithurael wrote...

Wow,

even though the convo is heated it is at least nice to have a mod talk with us at the very least.

He's just a mod, there's nothing particularly special about that.

#310
Outsider edge

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ZLurps wrote...

OniTYME wrote...

To those who say BW shouldnt or wont respond to us because of ill-conceived hostility, I have this to say: LOOK AT MP FORUM.

You see mostly polite discussions with the team and us joking around lightheartedly. Its what happens when the conversation goes two ways.


Good post. I really like how MP staff communicates with players. I can sometimes imagine they makes those silents sighs when they read nerfing threads and then counter nerfing threads and so on, but they are very much on what's the thrill. Folks looking to not only survive in MP but utterly destroying everything devs can throw at them and having fun while doing so. Damn there are guys making platinum speedruns without rockets, just for the challenge!

Sadly, what comes to this forum, I don't see anything like that happening here, don't see much point either.





Not exactly the same thing.

There are good reasons why on the MP forums there's good communication between staff and players. The main reason is that Bioware needs immediate feedback on multiplayer for balance issues. If they introduce new powers they need too know asap what the effects of those are on the metagame of multiplay. If they wouldn't be on top of player feedback odds are the MP would have been an imbalanced mess already. On that front Bioware did very well.

Too extrapolate that too this forum would there be an immediate need for Bioware too converse with players on the story front of Mass Effect 3? I would say not eventhough like many i would welcome the insight on what exactly transpired behind the scenes. Mass Effect 3 is pretty much over with very likely just one more DLC cycle in the works. There's no true benefit too converse at this time. This is likely gonna change when we get closer too Mass Effect 4's launch date though.

Modifié par Outsider edge, 21 janvier 2013 - 08:21 .


#311
ZLurps

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Grubas wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

OniTYME wrote...

To those who say BW shouldnt or wont respond to us because of ill-conceived hostility, I have this to say: LOOK AT MP FORUM.

You see mostly polite discussions with the team and us joking around lightheartedly. Its what happens when the conversation goes two ways.


Good post. I really like how MP staff communicates with players. I can sometimes imagine they makes those silents sighs when they read nerfing threads and then counter nerfing threads and so on, but they are very much on what's the thrill. Folks looking to not only survive in MP but utterly destroying everything devs can throw at them and having fun while doing so. Damn there are guys making platinum speedruns without rockets, just for the challenge!

Sadly, what comes to this forum, I don't see anything like that happening here, don't see much point either.





Obviously MP has higher priority. Also do the devs get abused there by the fans? 
Because im looking for an example...


Just follow those forums for a couple of days "Fix your crappy servers!", "When you fix the damn (insert weapon or mechanic here)!" "EA, the worst customer service ever!" The thing is, guys working on multiplayer don't mind. They take "X character passive evo B bonus is POS that doesn't work" at the same ways as someone writing "There is a problem with character X passive evo B, it doesn't apply damage bonus as it should". Sure first version of bug report isn't nicely worded, sure devs would appreciate if people would put it like second version but all necessary information about bug is in both reports.

Just see how many times they keep answering to the same questions "Why we don't have a fix for (insert bug here) yet?" they say, "We don't have the money, we don't have the resources". "Servers yes we know well, nothing we can do about it, we need EA to fund upgrades" or so. They have answered to these questions about million times and they stll keep answering. They also seems to be very much in touch and even respect people who are dedicated and skilled and it goes both ways. Even it's not something that is said often, there are people who think that stunt they pulled when they brought the Collectors in MP is nothing short of heroism, even though there are lot of people who hate "Praetorian butt lazors", for example.

They are dealing with crowd that wants to shoot stuff and be very good at it. Lot's of young people driven by their lust to be good at what they do driven by energy drinks challeging everything. Did you know that skilled players can run with the pizza? MP devs didn't but when that was discovered they said "Well, if anybody manages to run with that thing, well good for him/her" "Clever use of game mechanics" or something to that effect, I don't recall exact quote.

And they take this crowd as they are, nerfers, trolls, whiners, challengers because that's the nature of it if you have something popular in your hands, you have all kind of people there, nobody is trying to pretend it's better or worse than it is, customers don't need to sugar their words "Fix this damn thing" and neither do devs "Won't happen, tough luck" to put it other way, whatever it is, they Deal With It ™. Transparency and attitude like that is where you can build reputation and respect.

Modifié par ZLurps, 21 janvier 2013 - 03:30 .


#312
Clayless

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ZLurps wrote...

Just follow those forums for a couple of days "Fix you crappy servers!", "When you fix the damn (insert weapon or mechanic here)!" "EA, the worst customer service ever!" The thing is, guys working on multiplayer don't mind. They take "X character passive evo B bonus is POS that doesn't work" at the same ways as someone writing "There is a problem with character X passive evo B, it doesn't apply damage bonus as it should". Sure first version of bug report isn't nicely worded, sure devs would appreciate if people would put it like second version but all necessary information about bug is in both reports.

Just see how many times they keep answering to the same questions "Why we don't have a fix for (insert bug here) yet?" they say, we don't have the money, we don't have the resources. "Servers yes we know well, nothing we can do about it, we need EA to fund upgrades" or so. They have answered to these questions about million times and they stll keep answering. They also seems to be very much in touch and even respect people who are dedicated and skilled and it goes both ways. Even it's not something that is said often, there are people who think that stunt they pulled when they brought the Collectors for MP is nothing short of heroism, even though there are lot of people who hate "Praetorian butt lazors" for example.

They are dealing with crowd that wants to shoot stuff and be very good at it. Lot's of young people driven by their lust to be good at what they do driven by energy drinks challeging everything. Did you know that skilled players can run with the pizza? MP devs didn't but when that was discovered they said "Well, if anybody manages to run with that thing, well good for him/her" "Clever use of game mechanics" or something to that effect, I don't recall exact quote.

And they take this crowd as they are, nerfers, trolls, whiners, challengers because that's the nature of it if you have something popular in your hands, you have all kind of people there, nobody is trying to pretend it's better or worse than it is, customers don't need to sugar their words "Fix this damn thing" and neither do devs "Won't happen, tough luck" to put it other way, whatever it is, they Deal With It ™. Transparency and attitude like that is where you can build reputation and respect.


That's different, in multiplayer people have a point, very rarely do people have a point here beyond "Change the ending".

If Bioware says anything it's turned into a meme, and the hatred is vicious and aimed towards Bioware rather than towards certain gameplay elements.

#313
Grubas

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Robosexual wrote...

That's different, in multiplayer people have a point, very rarely do people have a point here beyond "Change the ending".

If Bioware says anything it's turned into a meme, and the hatred is vicious and aimed towards Bioware rather than towards certain gameplay elements.


Sorry but i disagree. We have had an entire subsection purely dedicated to romance. And though its closed now, it has been contained in subgroups. 

There is more then enough interest to disscus other aspects of the game. 

#314
Clayless

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I'm just pointing out the difference between here and the multiplayer section that's all.

I am more optimistic than I was a few days ago, but I still think we'll have to wait until after the final DLC is released so a lot of mindless haters will leave.

#315
78stonewobble

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Robosexual wrote...
That's different, in multiplayer people have a point, very rarely do people have a point here beyond "Change the ending".

If Bioware says anything it's turned into a meme, and the hatred is vicious and aimed towards Bioware rather than towards certain gameplay elements.


Atleast for my sake I don't feel that is true.

I find some of bioware's decisions stupid. Not bioware as a whole or their employees in general. Just certain decisions, actions and so forth. And bioware or it's employees would probably think the same about some of my point of views, posts and actions.

It goes both ways and in my humble oppinion with an eye on the proverbial ball and not the man (company).

PS: Yes. I know that instead of using the term "stupid" one could use eg. "unfortunate", but personally I try to keep things as true to what I think as possible. If I think something is stupid I'll say that. If I think something is unfortunate I'll use that term. In my experience too much sensibility also clouds communication.

People who know me usually knows that I usually don't mean anything beyond what I say. I'll just have to remember to make sure that also comes across eg. here.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 21 janvier 2013 - 02:17 .


#316
Grubas

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Robosexual wrote...

I'm just pointing out the difference between here and the multiplayer section that's all.

I am more optimistic than I was a few days ago, but I still think we'll have to wait until after the final DLC is released so a lot of mindless haters will leave.


Mindless hater?
If you said complains, i would point out all the collected complains about nerf/buff/Lag/server down etc.. that are coming up regularly on that board.

They would turn the forum into a truly toxic environment, if not for the presence of actual developers posting and taking feedback into account.

With respect to Stan, but he isnt even employed by bw. Everything he says is just his opinion.



 

Modifié par Grubas, 21 janvier 2013 - 02:23 .


#317
SimonTheFrog

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There is a huge difference between issues that are broken by a technical standard and broken by an aesthetical standard.
For BioWare at least as it would seem.

Because technical issues can be a problem from a legal point of view whereas aesthetical or emotional issues can be swept under the rug as artistic freedom.

This is actually a pretty problematic situation because if it's an issue it IS an issue and should be adressed, no matter it's nature.

#318
dreamgazer

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Robosexual wrote...

I am more optimistic than I was a few days ago, but I still think we'll have to wait until after the final DLC is released so a lot of mindless haters irreperably dissatisfied fans will leave.


Agreed, after the fix. This forum will always have mechanical BioWare/Mass Effect haters, and many who are dissatisfied have rational reasons for feeling as such.  Once you cut through the hyperbolic bullisht, there are legitimate concerns. 

#319
78stonewobble

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Robosexual wrote...

I'm just pointing out the difference between here and the multiplayer section that's all.

I am more optimistic than I was a few days ago, but I still think we'll have to wait until after the final DLC is released so a lot of mindless haters will leave.


If there's such a thing as "mindless haters" theres probably also "mindless lovers".

Granted, if they exist they're nice to have (buying stuff no matter what), but it begs the following question.

How do you, equally to the critique, sort through the praise for the constructive?

And if only one of the above leaves. Wouldn't that skew the total feedback unrealistically towards something positive? 

#320
dreamgazer

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78stonewobble wrote...

And if only one of the above leaves. Wouldn't that skew the total feedback unrealistically towards something positive? 


Is feedback the sole purpose for a board centered on a specific game?

#321
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Drayfish wrote this, abouth a month ago:

Considering the substantial, and rather worrying cognitive dissonance many fans (myself included) perceived between the numerous pre-release promises and what was actually delivered; considering the disparity between the near-universally gushing review scores and what actually appeared in the game (the bugs, the narrative railroading, the utterly required multiplayer despite repeated assurances to the contrary, and the muddled, obscure ending – almost none of which was addressed in reviewer analysis); and taking into account the near industry-wide condemnation of any fans who dared voice their displeasure at the game; I would argue that the confidence you place in any future alignment between the press and customer satisfaction is a little fantastical.

I have many issues with Bioware and Mass Effect 3 (which I will get to in a moment), but a good deal of other worrying issues extend into the 'games journalism' field itself, and the uncomfortable relationship that developers such as Bioware have with those people who should be holding publishers to greater account. The fact that your equation for future player satisfaction still relies upon some alignment between review scores and player experience, without anyone actually bothering to examine and correct what created such a glaring discrepancy this time around, suggests that very little – if indeed nothing – has been learned from this experience.

As for Bioware itself, although I am not sure I would categorise the sensation as the 'destruction' of some blind 'trust' I had in the company (they are, after all, a business, and I a consumer), what I did have faith in was a certain standard of product – both mechanically and narratively. Previous to ME3, every Bioware game I had played impressed me as a work of depth and expanse. Characters were well-rounded, plots (for the limitations of an RPG structure) were branching and surprising, design and programming were impeccable, all of which created an immersive world that the player could invest in. From the freedom to explore of ME1, to the multiplicity of choice and backstory and endgame in Dragon Age: Origins, to the depth of character and emotional resonance of ME2. There seemed to be a ratio of developer care to player investment that always suggested this was a team that would not cynically rush a product to market.

And so, what rather shocked me at first about ME3 was the lack of polish.

As I said, one of the traits of Bioware games I had put faith in was a level of presentational and structural finesse. It probably goes without saying at this point that I had (and have) not played Dragon Age 2 – so when I started ME3, the animation glitches, face import failure, and frequent dismissals of major choices from the previous games rather took me by surprise. It struck me as the kind of rushed work I attributed to other developers – not Bioware.

That the game was suddenly dismissing major decisions from the previous games (who was councillor; the death of the Racchni; the Collector Base; Shepard's entire character backstory, etc), a central component of the RPG elements continuously touted by Bioware to be at the centre of this experience for half a decade; that the game was suddenly dictating who the character of Shepard was to me, contrary to my personal input (she cares so much about 'random kid in the universe' that she will be haunted by him in naff dreams; she loved Kaiden and lamented his death, apparently); that the game severely truncated the speech options and had whole swaths of uninterrupted auto-dialogue; that it stripped away legitimate side-missions in favour of obscure, unfulfilling fetch-quests and a wholly linear narrative with little to no variation in level progression – all indicated that this game operated very differently from those that had come before it. Indeed, this was so evident that despite the frequent narrative call-backs presented, it was difficult to align this with the two games that had preceded it; with the exceptions of the Genophage arc and a good portion of the Rannoch missions, this entry seemed streamlined and narrowed to the point of losing all of the qualities that define a reactive, immersive Mass Effect experience entirely. (That there was an 'Action mode' only cemented this feeling further.)

But all of this only disappointed me. What horrified me was the ending.

And I am not talking about the cut corners, the deus ex machina, the illogical narrative leaps that needed to be spackled over in the EC, or the ham-fistedly on the nose religious metaphor of Shepard's sacrifice. I am talking about the moment in which it was made clear that Bioware – I presume in some misguided attempt to load an artless gravitas into the final decision tree – advocated the application of either an act of genocide, eugenic purgation, or becoming a totalitarian god.

And it is not enough to argue, as some people have, that 'the player did not have to do any of those things – they were choices', because the game was engineered so that it could only be completed if one of those choices was made. The conflict of the entire Mass Effect sage has been about racial conflict – metaphorically presented in the violence between synthetic and organic – and the only way to end it is to employ one of three war crimes. There is no way to work together, no way to have faith in your fellow allies, no way to talk the enemy of the game down from their intolerant hate-screed. You just have to do what they ask: exterminate a race of beings because their lives are worth less than yours; ascend to the arrogant position of an unstoppably dictatorial monster; or mutate every life in the universe to have the same DNA - because that's the only way to 'peace'.

Bioware decided to use their trilogy to send a nihilistic message about to futility of struggle and hope: you can't win by believing in stupid things like diversity and inclusivity. War can only be overcome by being the one to employ the war crime for your agenda (whatever that might be). Bigotry can only be overcome by forcing your will upon others: wiping them out, forcing them to get along, or violating them to become all genetically the same.

I have literally never seen a more horrifying message offered by a piece of popular entertainment in my life. And the fact that Bioware not only published such a hateful world-view in their fiction (perverting an otherwise hopeful and wondrous narrative in the process), but then after the fact became so aggressively protective of it – announcing themselves bewildered that fans could not appreciate their cynical vision and conceding only to expand the point they had made without explanation or compromise, has led me to believe that either Bioware is so blinded by hubris that they are incapable of actually taking responsibility for the implications of their fiction, or truly do have a vision of the world that stands fundamentally and profoundly opposed to my own.

Either way though, it is near impossible to see that gaping fissure being overcome by a few good reviews from fans and press next time (they were hardly indicative this time around anyway). To me the company Bioware is either narcissistically blind or so filled with a need to spout angsty, intolerant drivel, that their future texts will ultimately have little I want to engage with to say anyway.

.
.
.
.
Cutting all the hyperbole and hate many people posed here in 2012, these were the complaints many of us had since march, and we still have today.


Saying that people here "don't have a point" it's simply not true. Relevant topics, regarding all the problems ME3 SP have, are around since march.

Modifié par Paulomedi, 21 janvier 2013 - 03:08 .


#322
78stonewobble

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dreamgazer wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

And if only one of the above leaves. Wouldn't that skew the total feedback unrealistically towards something positive? 


Is feedback the sole purpose for a board centered on a specific game?


Obviously not. Eg. entertainment and Public Relations as well.

However in the context of this thread and constructive discussions. I'd presume for the widest and most representative feedback you would want also representative amounts of yay or nay sayers in addition to the more neutral middle ground.


A little ps:

I've come across this one quite often: "haters gonna hate".

Which offcourse can be true, but I doubt there has been any real consideration whether the person had a point or not. Disagreeing to something is one thing, dismissing without any thought put into it is another.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 21 janvier 2013 - 03:25 .


#323
Clayless

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Grubas wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

I'm just pointing out the difference between here and the multiplayer section that's all.

I am more optimistic than I was a few days ago, but I still think we'll have to wait until after the final DLC is released so a lot of mindless haters will leave.


Mindless hater?
If you said complains, i would point out all the collected complains about nerf/buff/Lag/server down etc.. that are coming up regularly on that board.

They would turn the forum into a truly toxic environment, if not for the presence of actual developers posting and taking feedback into account.

With respect to Stan, but he isnt even employed by bw. Everything he says is just his opinion.


Without developer feedback I'd say people would just get bored and leave, seeing no point in complaining about gameplay elements they don't need to care about.

This section on the other hand is full of mindless hatred aimed towards Bioware. Just read that long post above, it boils down to disagreeing with reviewers because of different real life morals compared to a piece of escapism, and hatred towards Bioware because of it.

Reading that post has made me cynical again. If Bioware did come to answer questions, would it actually be constructive questions, or full of people demanding that Bioware explain said persons own subjective feelings to them?

#324
Caprea

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78stonewobble wrote...

If there's such a thing as "mindless haters" theres probably also "mindless lovers".
[...]
How do you, equally to the critique, sort through the praise for the constructive?

And if only one of the above leaves. Wouldn't that skew the total feedback unrealistically towards something positive? 

I agree. In order to have a well-balanced discussion about a game that you can actually draw something productive from, it's important to see and hear both sides and draw your own conclusions from that. After all, forming an opinion about something is a very collaborative act and done better in a balanced environment rather than a vacuum, or, which would be even worse, an environment that is utterly one-sided. Imo, only then can discussions and feedback get really productive and constructive - when both sides are taken into account, no matter how much you personally disagree with something and no matter what exactly is criticized about the game, the comany's behavior, etc.
I'm not saying valid complaints and dissatisfaction justify bad behavior. Discussions and feedback can only be helpful and constructive when brought forth in the respective manner and there's something of substance to be found in the arguments. Phrases like "OMG ME3 sucks!" may be more destructive than phrases like "OMG, ME3 best game evar!", which might be good for morale, but ultimately, none of them is construcive or really helpful.

Modifié par dea_ex_machina, 21 janvier 2013 - 03:42 .


#325
Guest_Paulomedi_*

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Robosexual wrote...

Grubas wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

I'm just pointing out the difference between here and the multiplayer section that's all.

I am more optimistic than I was a few days ago, but I still think we'll have to wait until after the final DLC is released so a lot of mindless haters will leave.


Mindless hater?
If you said complains, i would point out all the collected complains about nerf/buff/Lag/server down etc.. that are coming up regularly on that board.

They would turn the forum into a truly toxic environment, if not for the presence of actual developers posting and taking feedback into account.

With respect to Stan, but he isnt even employed by bw. Everything he says is just his opinion.


Without developer feedback I'd say people would just get bored and leave, seeing no point in complaining about gameplay elements they don't need to care about.

This section on the other hand is full of mindless hatred aimed towards Bioware. Just read that long post above, it boils down to disagreeing with reviewers because of different real life morals compared to a piece of escapism, and hatred towards Bioware because of it.

Reading that post has made me cynical again. If Bioware did come to answer questions, would it actually be constructive questions, or full of people demanding that Bioware explain said persons own subjective feelings to them?


Hate is a powerful word. Be careful using it.

Drayfish's post never mentions hate. Just disapointment towards BW's game and actions, and horror towards the message the ending conveys.

They don't need to explain anything. But expect some of us to disagree with them and be vocal about it.

The part about different real life morals compared to a piece of escapism: It happens to be a very, VERY dangerous moral (genocide, eugenics, slavery) conveyed to MILLIONS of young people.

And if this response is all you have to say about drayfish's post, I beg you to read it again.

Modifié par Paulomedi, 21 janvier 2013 - 03:54 .