390 réponses à ce sujet

[ZLurps]

Paulomedi wrote...

Robosexual wrote...

Paulomedi wrote...

The problem is, a cure for breast cancer is a WANTED trait, seeked by many individuals.

Did everyone want Synthesis?

Synthesis is a cure to mortality itself.

I think you'd be able to find quite a few people that would like a cure for death.

Is Immortality a wanted trait? The Elves of Lord of the Rings pondered that immortality is seeing everyone and everything you love and care die around you.

Are you defined (just) by yourself?

In GUNNM, Methuselah's Formula is spread to everyone by a hacker, granting many people immortality. What happens next? Resource depletion and Infanticide.

Sorry but IMO this is going off-topic. While discussion is interesting perhaps it would be more relevant to ponder how much authors can be held responsible of different interpretations of story.

[drayfish]

Paulomedi wrote...

edit: Ninja'd by drayfish.

I've been using your posts for discussing ME3 shortcomings. I hope you don't mind it since, I have utter respect for your view on the subject.

Thanks for the kind words - and no problem at all.

All the best.

[Clayless]

Yeah this Synthesis thing is going off topic.

I think we can all just agree it's not as good, or as evil, as it's made out to be. There are valid arguments for both sides.

Constructive arguments in other words.

Modifié par Robosexual, 22 janvier 2013 - 01:24 .

[ZLurps]

Paulomedi wrote...

ZLurps wrote...
snip

Sorry but IMO this is going off-topic. While discussion is interesting perhaps it would be more relevant to ponder how much authors can be held responsible of different interpretations of story.

They should be. Even more if any one of us are invited to fill the gaps (that phrase turned to a meme, everyone knows that).

What I can't respect is their utter silence about our interpretations.

I don't know if this is so simple.

If I make parody about action genre and have this very tough special forces guy as protagonist, wielding Hitler & Dick submachine gun just because I felt weapon called that would serve certain things in my story, what I should do about group of Germans who send me feedback that I'm racist and using German stereotypes against them?

Modifié par ZLurps, 22 janvier 2013 - 01:27 .

[Obadiah]

drayfish wrote...
...
This is an utterly specious way to muddy the definition.

You appear to be confusing the theory with the tools used to bring that theory about.  That's like arguing that there is a difference between slowly colouring a canvas red with a brush, and dipping it in the paint. One is gradual, the other instantaneous, but both achieve the exact same end.

The purpose of eugenics is to reach toward the perpetuation of desirable genetic traits, to ultimately 'better' the human species through a genetic pruning process.  Breeding programs, selective sterilisation and wholesale genocide are merely the tools necessary that bring that goal into being.  Were those who embraced the philosophy of eugenics able to use a magical button you can press that will change everyone immediately and leapfrog all the nasty stuff, they no doubt would have.  The 'discrimination and oppression' you skipped over occurs in the exact moment that button is pressed.  (And likening two people having a baby with the systemic denegration of some for the 'betterment' of others is farcical.)

And that's precisely the principle that Mass Effect 3 presents in its synthesis ending, it's merely dressed up in a shiny pseudo-science veneer.

Who exactly is to argue what genetic composition is appropriate for all?  Who gets to dictate what attributes are lesser than any other?  After all, red hair is a recessive gene - no doubt we'll have to get rid of that...  And too bad anyone whose entire belief system is geared around the premise that the flesh is sacred and should not be perverted by technology...  Your dumb beliefs have no place in the world that has been inflicted upon you, guy. 

What a disgustingly arrogant notion.

Ok, that is exactly the kind of response I was talking about in my last post.

To some, with Synthesis, the player couldn't just select to disperse to genetic upgrade to bring Organics and Synthetics together, for some it's necessarily the culmination of a philosphy that involves "breeding programs, selective sterilisation and wholesale genocide." And the player somehow tacitly agreed to all of that - except the players didn't.

How exactly did the devs not predict this kind of response or discussion? What's the "constructive" version of this conversation?

Modifié par Obadiah, 22 janvier 2013 - 01:42 .

[Reorte]

Robosexual wrote...

Yeah this Synthesis thing is going off topic..

True, and I'm certainly guilty of that but it's so far managed to discuss it fairly civilly...

[Reorte]

Obadiah wrote...

How exactly did the devs not predict this kind of response or discussion?

It seems incredible to think that a lot of people wouldn't see it this way, which is why it's rather hard not to sound simply like an attack when you mention it. These things are just about impossible to discuss without insulting someone because if there's any merit at all in the argument against it then it cannot do anything but reflect very badly.

[Reorte]

Paulomedi wrote...

Hitler & Dick...LOL.

Well, The sensible response would revolve around you are not using a German stereotype, but a Nationalsozialismus one. And a particular figure of the latter.

What this gun do? Shoot funny moustaches?

OK then, in my future story society has changed so all the women are safely back in the kitchen (aided by their black slaves), looking after their husbands, and society is infintely better as a result. Is there any way you could possibly discuss that without calling me sexist and racist? My hero is a general who is a tactical genius - after all his plans of sending everyone charging stark naked in broad daylight against heavily-armed opposition always works with no losses to his troops whatsoever. Now it's rather hard to avoid calling me an idiot too.

[ZLurps]

Paulomedi wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Paulomedi wrote...

ZLurps wrote...
snip

Sorry but IMO this is going off-topic. While discussion is interesting perhaps it would be more relevant to ponder how much authors can be held responsible of different interpretations of story.

They should be. Even more if any one of us are invited to fill the gaps (that phrase turned to a meme, everyone knows that).

What I can't respect is their utter silence about our interpretations.

I don't know if this is so simple.

If I make parody about action genre and have this very tough special forces guy as protagonist, wielding Hitler & Dick submachine gun just because I felt weapon called that would serve certain things in my story, what I should do about group of Germans who send me feedback that I'm racist and using German stereotypes against them?

Hitler & Dick...LOL.

Well, The sensible response would revolve around you are not using a German stereotype, but a Nationalsozialismus one. And a particular figure of the latter.

What this gun do? Shoot funny moustaches?

It mains function in this parody would be part of deconstuction of gun fetichism (hence Heckler & Koch) I could also play it bit differently and have an this sleek secret service guy dealing with crime in very top level of society, he could use British Wanker BBQ, that IMO have a nice metrosexual ring in it. Anyway, Then British could blame me for being a racist and playing with certain sterotype etc.

The thing is there is always someone who can take your work and see something totally different that you intended. And if you try very, very much not to insult anybody, try to predict every possible interpretion, you easily end up with a blank paper or work that practically equals that much.

Modifié par ZLurps, 22 janvier 2013 - 01:54 .

[Reorte]

Paulomedi wrote...

No, I can't, simply because my real life examples of that conflicts wth the vision portrayed in your story.

One can argue that Synthesis is not an example of real life (not being Eugenic as well), because it could be a real willing destiny for everyone, despite my real life examples telling me otherwise.

Yet, I will always be suspicious of miracle solutions.

And that's the problem I have with calls to avoid sounding like I'm attacking people. Of course what's actually brought this all up isn't quite as clear-cut as my example - I don't want to make out that anyone is anywhere near as bad as that.

[Ninja Stan]

Since this has now turned into interpretations of the ME3 endings (or maybe just one of them), it's probably time to shut down the thread.

End of line.