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[CBGB]

Say you count EDI as a living being.

That poses the most interesting questions about the Synthesis option, though the topic itself offers a good debate, an extension of Dr. Chakwas' argument with Engineer Adams. EDI and Legion share some traits we associate with life - curiosity, self-awareness, adaptation - they lack others: secretion, respiration, expiration. Perhaps even desire.

But if you see EDI as only an advanced machine, the Destroy ending comes at a lesser cost, whatever the merits of Synthesis.

It's when you believe EDI and the geth have the rights of Garrus and Liara that the choice becomes hard, even if you believe Synthetics have empathy. If you Destroy them, you've favored some lives over others, and is that merited when they all possess consciousness?

But if you spare them, what is the cost to organics? The Extended Cut shows all life in harmony, and touts ever-expanding knowledge, but I have to wonder what those peaceful Krogan share with their ancestors beyond a name. Do they still head-butt?

If Synthesis implies an inability to harbor ill-will towards others, it's a fair question whether it allows free will at all. Have you 'killed' Javik and Ashley only to replace them with complacent copies in the same skin? If we overwrite our fighting genes with kinder code, are we still free?

I hate the implication that a free spirit means lasting strife, that to be human, we must always have war. But the Synthesis ending makes me wonder: is perpetual peace unnatural to the point of being un-life-like?

To save EDI, do we have to kill James... and all his kin?

Modifié par CBGB, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:44 .

[Bill Casey]

Synthesis is the only option that manages to be a greater evil than the Reaper's cycle...
It's an ending that would make Josef Mengele blush...


It's the most digsuting and horrible thing I've seen in fiction...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:42 .

[IMNOTCRAZYiminsane]

Synthesis is the same as what the reapers are doing which is sad

*watched a video and it explain it really good*

Modifié par IMNOTCRAZYiminsane, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:44 .

[Bill Casey]

Actually, it's worse...
The Reapers at least left some life alone each cycle...
They didn't run one big insane untested genetic experiment on everything at once...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:47 .

[TheProtheans]

Synthesis is disgusting.

[Lost Mercenary]

Galactic rape.

The end.

[Eryri]

I would argue that we don't even save Edi. Not the real Edi anyway.

The Edi we know and love may be a little cool and detached but she also has a dry sense of humour and a likeable self-assurance.

"Synthedi" is a far more emotional creature, who likes snuggling with Joker, and despite having no tear ducts is able to cry at funerals. She is not the same person. She has been rewritten.

Synthesis is just as drastic a change for synthetic beings as organic ones.

[Meltemph]

The only "morality" issue with synthesis is that you are able and willing to make a irrational choice in favor of a rational choice, because the perceived implications assume nothing goes wrong.  If destroy didn't exist and all you had was magic or control, I would probably choose magic, but as it stands we didn't have to make that choice.

Modifié par Meltemph, 17 janvier 2013 - 08:53 .

[Gervaise]

It is one of the most depressing things about synthesis that there are people who don't seem to realise how bad it really is, including the writers. I opt for destroy as the lesser of 3 evils and have found the best way to reconcile myself to it is simply not bother saving the Geth in either ME2 or ME3. It is actually far easier to rationalise making that decision at the earlier points in the game. In ME2 a paragon Shepard actually says that re-writing the Heretic Geth is immoral and brain washing. It is what bad guys do. Destroying them is really just finishing the job from ME1. Then in ME3, Legion wants to download a Reaper code when I had just gone to all the trouble of removing a Reaper virus from the Geth. He is trying to force an "improvement" on them, even though it comes from our enemy and he has witnessed how dangerous even apparently "dead" Reapers can be. My first run through I wanted to oppose the download and then broker a peace but this wasn't an option, so I took the peace option, wondering if I would live to regret it - the Geth didn't betray me but the writers did. So I realised that trying to save the Geth was doomed from the outset and on the subsequent run through I didn't bother.

Whilst I acknowledge that we are continually told in game that conventional victory is not possible, I tend to be in agreement with people who say that if you have succeeded in totally uniting the galaxy, having cured the geneophage, saved the Rachni Queen and achieved peace between the Geth and Quarians (preferably without the Reaper code), then that should be the crucial difference between this and previous cycles (where they only had a false unity under supreme rulers enforcing uniformity) and enables us to defeat the Reapers in a straight up fight - at least on earth.

Even so, I still enjoy seeing the Reapers fall and the scenes of jubilation around the galaxy. Those who gave their lives didn't die for nothing.

[His Name was HYR!!]

 Pro-Synth here.


People are the same as they always were, post-Synthesis.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 17 janvier 2013 - 10:16 .

[clennon8]

It's a choice that requires either colossal arrogance or colossal stupidity to make. Probably both.

[GHNR]

clennon8 wrote...

It's a choice that requires either colossal arrogance or colossal stupidity to make. Probably both.

Or we're all just indoctrinated.

[clennon8]

Yep. Or that.

[Hadeedak]

Oh, look! It's another "My assumptions about what X ending meant means it must be morally reprehensible!" thread.


But seriously. All depends on what you want to see in it. Just like destroy or control. Or refuse, except the "we all died" part.

[alienatedflea]

synthesis ending is beautiful...OP, you can't take what EDI says literally. What makes people "alive"? I argue that its not the fact that we live or die but its the emotions that living beings have. Machines dont have emotions. They just have logic. EDI mentions that the line between organic and synthetics are disappearing because we (organics) have the vast logic/knowledge and the process to commute it at unbelievable speeds like synthetics and now Synthetics have emotion and can better bring logic to understand organics. It is those of lesser minds that think Synthesis is an abomination for which I feel bad for.

[greatcrusader44]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Pro-Synth here.


People are the same as they always were, post-Synthesis.

no offense, but your fooling yourself,
 if everybody was fundamentally the same person after Synthesis, than what would be the point of it. 

Modifié par greatcrusader44, 28 janvier 2013 - 04:54 .

[greatcrusader44]

alienatedflea wrote...

synthesis ending is beautiful...OP, you can't take what EDI says literally. What makes people "alive"? I argue that its not the fact that we live or die but its the emotions that living beings have. Machines dont have emotions. They just have logic. EDI mentions that the line between organic and synthetics are disappearing because we (organics) have the vast logic/knowledge and the process to commute it at unbelievable speeds like synthetics and now Synthetics have emotion and can better bring logic to understand organics. It is those of lesser minds that think Synthesis is an abomination for which I feel bad for.

"Lesser Minds" lol its always funny when someone says that when defending something stupid.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I prefer an ending that craps all over everyone's favorite colored ending, contains no 2010 pseudophilosophical BS, and just ends the story in the "FK Yeah!" manner that it deserves. Call me shallow. Get off my lawn.

[spirosz]

greatcrusader44 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Pro-Synth here.


People are the same as they always were, post-Synthesis.

no offense, but your fooling yourself,
 if everybody was fundamentally the same person after Synthesis, than what would be the point of it. 

Mentally, I think....

I still believe Javik wouldn't agree, nor Jack.... 

[d4eaming]

My main problem with synthesis is that it takes self-determination away from- how many people/synthetics live in the MEU? I cannot in good conscience do it. I can find a Shepard who will, I have one in a playthrough who might, but in my "canon" it is because Shepard is utterly beat down and has lost resolve, not because they think it's a good idea.

[His Name was HYR!!]

greatcrusader44 wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

 Pro-Synth here.


People are the same as they always were, post-Synthesis.

no offense, but your fooling yourself,
 if everybody was fundamentally the same person after Synthesis, than what would be the point of it. 

Same point as before?

At best, create a medium for peace/dialogue/understanding between organics and synthetics.

At worst, level the playing field.

[WhiteKnyght]

Bill Casey wrote...

Synthesis is the only option that manages to be a greater evil than the Reaper's cycle...
It's an ending that would make Josef Mengele blush...


It's the most digsuting and horrible thing I've seen in fiction...

Says you. Not me

Nobody dies in Synthesis, except Shepard, who is a willing participant.

if you're gonna argue synthesis being forced on people as bad because they're different, you may as well call Wrex the devil for pushing the Krogan to embrace more peaceful ways(Krogan are warriors by nature.)

Plus the entire galaxy gave up their right to choose when they(metaphorically) got on their hands and knees to beg Shepard to save their asses from being killed. They don't care about the means, only the goal: survival.

Modifié par The Grey Nayr, 28 janvier 2013 - 05:36 .

[Obadiah]

I think the only thing Synthesis does is eliminate the misunderstanding/mistrust/slavery/rebellion between Created and Creator, so the Created don't wipe out the Creators. They're still going to fight about stuff though.