217 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtySHISN0]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Getting tired of people calling Synthesis "rape" simply because they live in denial of how malleable and changing their minds and bodies are.

Theirs, as in - the owners, not everyones.

I support synthesis as much as i can and acknowledge it flaws, but there are simple facts about informed consent that some other people are in denial about.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 29 janvier 2013 - 05:39 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Reorte wrote...
Equally disgusting? I'm very worried that you'd think that. One of them affects one species, the other affects every single living thing in the galaxy and will change things for all life forever. Destroy is the lesser evil.

Murder destroys everything a person is, ever will be and ever could be. It also alters something forever.

It is equally as damaging, don't down play it.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 29 janvier 2013 - 05:44 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Shaani wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

It really boils down to "is rape preferable to murder?".

Well, going by that train of logic, Shepard already murdered 300,000 people in Arrival.

So it actually really boils down to "Would you rather be a murderer, or a murderer and a rapist?"

by that logic, if you also rewrote the Geth  it really boils down to "would you rather be a rapist and murdering murderer or a rapist and a murdering rapist?".



Ah yes, "by that logic".

We have dismissed such claims.

[Shaani]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Shaani wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

It really boils down to "is rape preferable to murder?".

Well, going by that train of logic, Shepard already murdered 300,000 people in Arrival.

So it actually really boils down to "Would you rather be a murderer, or a murderer and a rapist?"

by that logic, if you also rewrote the Geth  it really boils down to "would you rather be a rapist and murdering murderer or a rapist and a murdering rapist?".

I destroyed those Geth, too.  So maybe I'm just a really good murderer.

[Auintus]

Helios969 wrote...

Since you brought it up...the whole eezo thing giving superpowers is pretty retarded as well, but since it largely remains an undefined substance I am able to suspend disbelief.  Shepard's special essence capable of homogenizing organic and synthetic life into some new "dna framework" is quite simply impossible.  IMPOSSIBLE.  Of course, if BW wants to reclassify ME as science fantasy, then I'll shut up about it.

The Crucible is more undefined than eezo is. None of the solutions are explained in great detail simply to preserve suspension of disbelief. If they wanted to make up an explanation, they could. It wouldn't even be that difficult.
Watch this: Living beings are made of chemicals which bond and arrange in a manner seeking balance in reaction to the amount of energy in their environments. With technology of sufficient advancement, that wave could be made of energy of a malleable level, type, and frequency that would change part of the physical structure of living beings into organic technology while simaltaneously restructuring DNA to build and maintain these structures in the being and any possible offspring. By no means impossible with a sufficient level of technology.
I didn't even have to change reality like the addition of eezo does. You just have to follow Clarke's third law.

[mjh417]

OP you're only scratching the surface of why Synthesis is a corrupt immoral pro-totalitarian, pro-eugenics, anti-evolution, anti-nature, anti-freedom, anti-democracy, anti-humane choice. Its what the Reapers and the Catalyst want Shep to pick, its the more full realization of their demented logic and motivations.

One of the things thats amazing about ME is that it gives us a final choice where chosing pseudo-genocide (Destroy) or even outright Dictatorship (Control) is morally preferable to a choice that let's everyone live.... as unnatural homogenized automatons who posses no freedom, not event of their own bodies.

[nos_astra]

Auintus wrote...
The Crucible is more undefined than eezo is. None of the solutions are explained in great detail simply to preserve suspension of disbelief. If they wanted to make up an explanation, they could. It wouldn't even be that difficult.
Watch this: Living beings are made of chemicals which bond and arrange in a manner seeking balance in reaction to the amount of energy in their environments. With technology of sufficient advancement, that wave could be made of energy of a malleable level, type, and frequency that would change part of the physical structure of living beings into organic technology while simaltaneously restructuring DNA to build and maintain these structures in the being and any possible offspring. By no means impossible with a sufficient level of technology.
I didn't even have to change reality like the addition of eezo does. You just have to follow Clarke's third law.

Rearranging every molecule in every cell of every being in the galaxy in the blink of an eye while everyone is being awake and conscious and unharmed and remaining the same individual as before is just ... impossible.

I've seen people try to explain eezo and the mass effect with hints of actual science. It has a basis. One adjustment to the universe and a bit of handwaving. That's how sci-fi works.

I've never seen anyone even try to begin to explain the nonsense that is the Crucible. From how it's impossible to build it without knowing what it is supposed to do to how it suddenly can do things that were never even alluded to during the trilogy. People don't even know where its powers come from. The Reapers? The cycles who created something they didn't understand that isseems far more advanced than Reaper tech? It's flat out nonsense. And not easily acceptable, carefully crafted nonsense that is the mass effect. 

Modifié par klarabella, 29 janvier 2013 - 06:58 .

[The G00D Shepard]

Obligatory theme for this thread and Synthesis.

[Auintus]

klarabella wrote...
Rearranging every molecule in every cell of every being in the galaxy in the blink of an eye while everyone is being awake and conscious and unharmed and remaining the same individual as before is just ... impossible.

I've seen people try to explain eezo and the mass effect with hints of actual science. It has a basis. One adjustment to the universe and a bit of handwaving. That's how sci-fi works.

I've never seen anyone even try to begin to explain the nonsense that is the Crucible. From how it's impossible to build it without knowing what it is supposed to do to how it suddenly can do things that were never even alluded to during the trilogy. People don't even know where its powers come from. The Reapers? The cycles who created something they didn't understand that isseems far more advanced than Reaper tech? It's flat out nonsense. And not easily acceptable, carefully crafted nonsense that is the mass effect. 

The molecules in your cells are already being rearranged, right now, all the time. The Crucible is explained as releasing energy. That energy would be perfectly capable of instigating that kind of change, changing how those molecules bond and interact, assuming the Crucible would be capable of correctly modulating the energy. I will admit, anyone affected by it should have been lightheaded, if not knocked completely unconsious, but, meh, I don't think that's a huge deal.

No changing of the universe even, just sufficiently advanced technology. It isn't explained, but that doesn't mean that it can't be.

It is explained that it is only capable of releasing energy. The Catalyst is supposed to control how that energy is released. The cycles only made an energy conduit. Sythesis is the result of it being in stellar condition(hence the high EMS) and the Catalyst's manipulation of that energy.

[eye basher]

Why i don't like synthesis because the catalyst already told you that he used it once already and it did work why should it be any different now at least with destroy i know i blew up the reapers for good.

[Auintus]

eye basher wrote...

Why i don't like synthesis because the catalyst already told you that he used it once already and it did work why should it be any different now at least with destroy i know i blew up the reapers for good.

The Catalyst's attempt failed because he was attempting to force it. He tells you this. Shepard, as a representative of the species of the galaxy, can accept Synthesis on their behalf. I think.

[TheRealJayDee]

The G00D Shepard wrote...

Obligatory theme for this thread and Synthesis.

Hey there, disturbed-by-anime-brain-twin!

I'll just quote myself from another thread about Synthesis. I made that post about 10-15 minutes before I looked into this thread:

TheRealJayDee wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

mjh417 wrote...

Synthesis is anything but beautiful. I find it horrific and disturbing to the core, more disturbing than the Renegade Control ending even.

Synthesis has always made me uneasy there are too many siumilarities in synthesis to how reapers are created and all their abomination soldiers, fusing different species together.  It is horrific, grotesque and metaphorical rape on an unimaginable scale.  It is repulsive and creepy.

But I am happy that you liked an ending.  I myself liked refuse, but not enough to ever replay this ****ty game.

When it comes to endings that disturbed me personally and I should rate Synthesis on a scale of 1-10, 1 being ME1 ending (not disturbing at all) and 10 being End of Evangelion (literally scarred me for life), it would score at least a solid 7,5. 

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 30 janvier 2013 - 01:45 .

[Fawx9]

The G00D Shepard wrote...

Obligatory theme for this thread and Synthesis.

It's sad though. People can reject it in the crazy anime made by a near crazy person(at the time). 

I don't get how Bioware didn't pick up that it should be like that.

[Reorte]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Reorte wrote...
Equally disgusting? I'm very worried that you'd think that. One of them affects one species, the other affects every single living thing in the galaxy and will change things for all life forever. Destroy is the lesser evil.

Murder destroys everything a person is, ever will be and ever could be. It also alters something forever.

It is equally as damaging, don't down play it.

There's a matter of numbers - every single living thing in the entire galaxy or the geth and EDI. That's not hard to grasp. Strike a blow at the enemy that'll take out a handful of your allies with it or change at the most fundamental (and therefore most invasive possible) level every single living creature. Every single atrocity that has ever been committed on Earth will eventually fade into something of interest only to historians. The change will be present forever.

It's disturbing that you can't see beyond "something is bad" and realise that some things are worse than others. Enough smaller crimes can be worse than a few large ones and Synthesis creates billions, if not trillions more crimes than Destroy, with an impact that'll have huge long-term consequences (if there really is no more evolution with synthesised species then the long-term consequences would be ecologically disastrous).

Modifié par Reorte, 30 janvier 2013 - 01:52 .

[Reorte]

Auintus wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Why i don't like synthesis because the catalyst already told you that he used it once already and it did work why should it be any different now at least with destroy i know i blew up the reapers for good.

The Catalyst's attempt failed because he was attempting to force it. He tells you this. Shepard, as a representative of the species of the galaxy, can accept Synthesis on their behalf. I think.

Like that's going to make so much difference.

[HiddenInWar]

I honestly think that shep choosing synthesis would be a result of the dizziness from harbingers laser.

"Cant...think....hey...look....a light........"

[TheBlackRose]

IMNOTCRAZYiminsane wrote...

Synthesis is the same as what the reapers are doing which is sad

*watched a video and it explain it really good*

Except that everyone still keeps their independence and isn't fused together as a sentient synthetic being who is programmed to preserve life.  Life in the galaxy finally has all the answers they'd been searching for since the beginning of the universe.

Modifié par TheBlackRose, 30 janvier 2013 - 03:13 .

[Auintus]

Reorte wrote...

Auintus wrote...

eye basher wrote...

Why i don't like synthesis because the catalyst already told you that he used it once already and it did work why should it be any different now at least with destroy i know i blew up the reapers for good.

The Catalyst's attempt failed because he was attempting to force it. He tells you this. Shepard, as a representative of the species of the galaxy, can accept Synthesis on their behalf. I think.

Like that's going to make so much difference.

The same as the difference between eating your broccoli and having it forced down your throat.
Important difference. More easily accepted if you choose it yourself.

[Eterna]

Bill Casey wrote...

Synthesis is the only option that manages to be a greater evil than the Reaper's cycle...
It's an ending that would make Josef Mengele blush...


It's the most digsuting and horrible thing I've seen in fiction...

You need to read some more fiction.

[Obitim]

mjh417 wrote...

OP you're only scratching the surface of why Synthesis is a corrupt immoral pro-totalitarian, pro-eugenics, anti-evolution, anti-nature, anti-freedom, anti-democracy, anti-humane choice. Its what the Reapers and the Catalyst want Shep to pick, its the more full realization of their demented logic and motivations.

One of the things thats amazing about ME is that it gives us a final choice where chosing pseudo-genocide (Destroy) or even outright Dictatorship (Control) is morally preferable to a choice that let's everyone live.... as unnatural homogenized automatons who posses no freedom, not event of their own bodies.

That;s your view, stop putting things across as absolutes!  All the endings are open to interpretation

[Shaani]

The G00D Shepard wrote...

"Garrius?"

"Yeah, Liara?"

"Why is there a giant floating Shepard head on the horizon?"

"Not sure . . . also not sure whe he seems incredibly bored."

[DirtySHISN0]

Reorte wrote...
snip

Where does it ever state that evolution will stop. They don't all magically become one race. They are still synthesised Asari, synthesised humans etc and they will still adapt to environmental pressures. All it does is give them the ability to interact with synthetics on a synthetic level.

If you thought you were taking the moral high road, you would refuse. From the looks of it you don't. So lets call this exactly what it is. Its not about the lesser evils, because there are none. Its all perspective - which is subject to opinion.

Which colour evil do you like the best?

[Shaani]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Reorte wrote...
snip

Where does it ever state that evolution will stop.

Where does it ever state that evolution will continue?

The Synthesis ending is such a mess that guessing the consequences are impossible.

[Helios969]

Auintus wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

Since you brought it up...the whole eezo thing giving superpowers is pretty retarded as well, but since it largely remains an undefined substance I am able to suspend disbelief.  Shepard's special essence capable of homogenizing organic and synthetic life into some new "dna framework" is quite simply impossible.  IMPOSSIBLE.  Of course, if BW wants to reclassify ME as science fantasy, then I'll shut up about it.

The Crucible is more undefined than eezo is. None of the solutions are explained in great detail simply to preserve suspension of disbelief. If they wanted to make up an explanation, they could. It wouldn't even be that difficult.
Watch this: Living beings are made of chemicals which bond and arrange in a manner seeking balance in reaction to the amount of energy in their environments. With technology of sufficient advancement, that wave could be made of energy of a malleable level, type, and frequency that would change part of the physical structure of living beings into organic technology while simaltaneously restructuring DNA to build and maintain these structures in the being and any possible offspring. By no means impossible with a sufficient level of technology.
I didn't even have to change reality like the addition of eezo does. You just have to follow Clarke's third law.

um, yeah, no.  There is no special essence within a person that will bond dna-based lifeforms and synthetic intelligences to create a new framework...no matter the technology you possess.  Go ahead and take this to any biologist with an advanced degree...they'll probably laugh their azz off.  The way synthesis will one day work for humans is by incorporating synthetic technologies into our bodies.  A process that will largely be choice-based.  It will not have anything to do with essence or spirit or merging all sentient life.

[Auld Wulf]

@OP

Sigh. So myopic...

1.) Synthesis is optional. One of the endings mentions this. You choose synthesis, it isn't forced upon you. If the krogans didn't complain about it in one ending, it meant that they accepted it freely. However, there is another ending where the krogans do not accept synthesis. It all amounts to how open-minded, progressive, and ethical they are. And that comes down to whether Wrex and Eve are still alive.

2.) Synthesis clearly doesn't change people. What it does is that it optionally gives them access to certain things. To organics? It provides an upgrade path, it allows organics to be able to change their chasis or parts of their body; it also allows them to access a consensus where they can share their thoughts and emotions. For syntehtics? It provides them with access to that consensus; and it offers them an upgrade which would allow them understanding of the thoughts and feelings contained within the consensus.

EDI crying? She finally understands how people feel, and why. She understands Joker's feelings fo her, she understands the feelings of loss for her companions, she understands so much now compared to what she used to.

If you fully understand the ending, then synthesis is the ethical choice. (Black and white morals be damned.)