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[Auld Wulf]

Helios969 wrote...

The way synthesis will one day work for [organics] is by incorporating synthetic technologies into our bodies.  A process that will largely be choice-based.  It will not have anything to do with essence or spirit or merging all sentient life.

I could hug you right now.

[Auintus]

Helios969 wrote...

um, yeah, no.  There is no special essence within a person that will bond dna-based lifeforms and synthetic intelligences to create a new framework...no matter the technology you possess.  Go ahead and take this to any biologist with an advanced degree...they'll probably laugh their azz off.  The way synthesis will one day work for humans is by incorporating synthetic technologies into our bodies.  A process that will largely be choice-based.  It will not have anything to do with essence or spirit or merging all sentient life.

No, of course not. Whatever essence that was would have to exist from birth and therefore would not include the upgrades.

But they've already made technology out of living things. Energy of the right type and freqency can manipulate the chemicals that make up your body, that's how skin cancer usually works. So with the right amount of energy, at the right levels, one could restructure the physical form to incorporate biologically-based technology, assuming your machine is advanced enough.

True. By the time we have a machine that advanced the transhumanism state will have come and gone.

Modifié par Auintus, 30 janvier 2013 - 02:22 .

[Obitim]

Shaani wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Reorte wrote...
snip

Where does it ever state that evolution will stop.

Where does it ever state that evolution will continue?

The Synthesis ending is such a mess that guessing the consequences are impossible.

All of the endings have many questions associated with them, at the end of the day what you pick is your opinion and what you think is best, it's subjective.  If someone thinks differntly then this doesnt make them less than you, less smart, less altruistic.  It's the vision of the ending they prefer, made with from their own perceptions of the game and their values within the game (and possible outside of it).  Throwing round phrases like rapists and murderers isn't exactly helping the discussion, which is what this should be.  Not a slanging match.

[Shaani]

Auld Wulf wrote...

To organics? It provides an upgrade path, it allows organics to be able to change their chasis or parts of their body; it also allows them to access a consensus where they can share their thoughts and emotions. For syntehtics? It provides them with access to that consensus; and it offers them an upgrade which would allow them understanding of the thoughts and feelings contained within the consensus.

I have no doubt that everyone would be lining up to link their minds to the Reapers and that there's no way this can end horribly.

[Obitim]

Shaani wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

To organics? It provides an upgrade path, it allows organics to be able to change their chasis or parts of their body; it also allows them to access a consensus where they can share their thoughts and emotions. For syntehtics? It provides them with access to that consensus; and it offers them an upgrade which would allow them understanding of the thoughts and feelings contained within the consensus.

I have no doubt that everyone would be lining up to link their minds to the Reapers and that there's no way this can end horribly.

Why always with the absolutes?

[Auintus]

Obitim wrote...

All of the endings have many questions associated with them, at the end of the day what you pick is your opinion and what you think is best, it's subjective.  If someone thinks differntly then this doesnt make them less than you, less smart, less altruistic.  It's the vision of the ending they prefer, made with from their own perceptions of the game and their values within the game (and possible outside of it).  Throwing round phrases like rapists and murderers isn't exactly helping the discussion, which is what this should be.  Not a slanging match.

Get out.
Clearly you are a very reasonable human being. You won't survive here.

I kid, but honestly, if someone didn't understand that in the first place, I doubt you will change their minds.

[Obitim]

Auintus wrote...

Obitim wrote...

All of the endings have many questions associated with them, at the end of the day what you pick is your opinion and what you think is best, it's subjective.  If someone thinks differntly then this doesnt make them less than you, less smart, less altruistic.  It's the vision of the ending they prefer, made with from their own perceptions of the game and their values within the game (and possible outside of it).  Throwing round phrases like rapists and murderers isn't exactly helping the discussion, which is what this should be.  Not a slanging match.

Get out.
Clearly you are a very reasonable human being. You won't survive here.

I kid, but honestly, if someone didn't understand that in the first place, I doubt you will change their minds.

I know, but I just hope some people will and see another persons side of things without the whole 'you are wrong I am right' scenario.  You never know, someone may take notice!

[Shaani]

Obitim wrote...

Shaani wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

To organics? It provides an upgrade path, it allows organics to be able to change their chasis or parts of their body; it also allows them to access a consensus where they can share their thoughts and emotions. For syntehtics? It provides them with access to that consensus; and it offers them an upgrade which would allow them understanding of the thoughts and feelings contained within the consensus.

I have no doubt that everyone would be lining up to link their minds to the Reapers and that there's no way this can end horribly.

Why always with the absolutes?

That is not an absolute statement.  I find the idea that the entire universe will tolerate the Reapers, much less choose to willingly assimilate themselves to them, completely absurd.

The Reapers are "upgraded" to understand our feelings, now?  They feel sorry for exterminating all advanced races in the galaxy hundreds of thousands of times?  Can't we just forgive them (and give them access to our thoughts, feelings, and emotions)?

Somehow I don't see that idea flying very well with all the people the Reapers just tried to exterminate.  If someone told me that was a good idea after I'd lived through that war, I'd shoot the poor indoctranted fool to put him out of his misery and go back to fighting the Reapers.

[Obitim]

Shaani wrote...

Obitim wrote...

Shaani wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

To organics? It provides an upgrade path, it allows organics to be able to change their chasis or parts of their body; it also allows them to access a consensus where they can share their thoughts and emotions. For syntehtics? It provides them with access to that consensus; and it offers them an upgrade which would allow them understanding of the thoughts and feelings contained within the consensus.

I have no doubt that everyone would be lining up to link their minds to the Reapers and that there's no way this can end horribly.

Why always with the absolutes?

That is not an absolute statement.  I find the idea that the entire universe will tolerate the Reapers, much less choose to willingly assimilate themselves to them, completely absurd.

The Reapers are "upgraded" to understand our feelings, now?  They feel sorry for exterminating all advanced races in the galaxy hundreds of thousands of times?  Can't we just forgive them (and give them access to our thoughts, feelings, and emotions)?

Somehow I don't see that idea flying very well with all the people the Reapers just tried to exterminate.  If someone told me that was a good idea after I'd lived through that war, I'd shoot the poor indoctranted fool to put him out of his misery and go back to fighting the Reapers.

Another absolute statement, the issue I've got is that you are saying that your way is the only way that this can be done, of course there will be problems and still  some conflict  for the reasons you've stated, howeve,r there will still be conflict in destroy and control.  

[Wayning_Star]

Shaani wrote...

Obitim wrote...

Shaani wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

To organics? It provides an upgrade path, it allows organics to be able to change their chasis or parts of their body; it also allows them to access a consensus where they can share their thoughts and emotions. For syntehtics? It provides them with access to that consensus; and it offers them an upgrade which would allow them understanding of the thoughts and feelings contained within the consensus.

I have no doubt that everyone would be lining up to link their minds to the Reapers and that there's no way this can end horribly.

Why always with the absolutes?

That is not an absolute statement.  I find the idea that the entire universe will tolerate the Reapers, much less choose to willingly assimilate themselves to them, completely absurd.

The Reapers are "upgraded" to understand our feelings, now?  They feel sorry for exterminating all advanced races in the galaxy hundreds of thousands of times?  Can't we just forgive them (and give them access to our thoughts, feelings, and emotions)?

Somehow I don't see that idea flying very well with all the people the Reapers just tried to exterminate.  If someone told me that was a good idea after I'd lived through that war, I'd shoot the poor indoctranted fool to put him out of his misery and go back to fighting the Reapers.

what reapers? there are NO reaperships in synthesis, they are completely gone as with the catalyst. What game are you playing anyways? Pinning misconception as lore?

The "gist" is to end the reaper threat, not fight them for ever.. you'll lose that one..they don't wear out like organics. That why the intelligence, divined by Leviathan turned into the catalyst, to stop the chaos. YOU promote chaos and that promotes the harvest and the catalyst. How can you win with that attitude? You cannot, it's just the cycle in different words..lol

[Wayning_Star]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

The way synthesis will one day work for [organics] is by incorporating synthetic technologies into our bodies.  A process that will largely be choice-based.  It will not have anything to do with essence or spirit or merging all sentient life.

I could hug you right now.

yeah, like everyone has choice now as to what is installed into the body to provide life support technology. And that is here in realtime, on old earth. Advance the time machine back to the MEU future,an then imagine the 'idea' of what choices are opposed to what is 'demanded' by citizens of that time period. You cannot impose our values systems on beings,even alien and synthetic and expect the same results.

[Shaani]

Obitim wrote...

Shaani wrote...


That is not an absolute statement.  I find the idea that the entire universe will tolerate the Reapers, much less choose to willingly assimilate themselves to them, completely absurd.

Another absolute statement

Saying that there would be no problems and that every single person in the universe would be totally onboard with this is an absolute statement.  The actual Synthesis ending as presented is an absolute statement.  I am saying that it's false.  If the Reapers are spared, someone, somewhere, is not going to let it go.

Wayning_Star wrote...

what reapers? there are NO
reaperships in synthesis, they are completely gone as with the catalyst.
What game are you playing anyways? Pinning misconception as
lore?

Have you even seen the ending lately?



13:42

EDI says...

The war is over.  The Reapers are helping us rebuild.  Where once they threatened us with extinction, they now bring us the collective knowledge of those who came before.

*CUT BACK TO REVEAL REAPER SHIP HELPING THEM REBUILD*

[Obitim]

Shaani wrote...

Obitim wrote...

Shaani wrote...


That is not an absolute statement.  I find the idea that the entire universe will tolerate the Reapers, much less choose to willingly assimilate themselves to them, completely absurd.

Another absolute statement

Saying that there would be no problems and that every single person in the universe would be totally onboard with this is an absolute statement.  The actual Synthesis ending as presented is an absolute statement.  I am saying that it's false.  If the Reapers are spared, someone, somewhere, is not going to let it go.

Wayning_Star wrote...

what reapers? there are NO
reaperships in synthesis, they are completely gone as with the catalyst.
What game are you playing anyways? Pinning misconception as
lore?

Have you even seen the ending lately?



13:42

EDI says...

The war is over.  The Reapers are helping us rebuild.  Where once they threatened us with extinction, they now bring us the collective knowledge of those who came before.

*CUT BACK TO REVEAL REAPER SHIP HELPING THEM REBUILD*

It shows a cross section who are onboard...all the endings are presented as absolutes...

I'm talking about the way you're carrying on with your interpretations.

Have I said there would be no problems?

Modifié par Obitim, 30 janvier 2013 - 04:25 .

[The Interloper]

My main problem with synthesis is that it basically says that the only way to reach mutual understanding is not through rational discussion and forming personal bonds, but through magic space lasers.

It's not disgusting so much as really cheap.

[Shaani]

Obitim wrote...

I'm talking about the way you're carrying on with your interpretations.

My only absolute statement is "problems exist", and you seem to have an issue with it.

In fact, I've made a point of avoiding extreme positions.  Synthesis is not rape, it's not murder, and it's not a Reaper trap.

I strongly feel, however, that it is at best appeasement, and all around unworkable as a basis for a viable long-term society.

[DirtySHISN0]

Shaani wrote...

DirtySHISN0 wrote...
Where does it ever state that evolution will stop.

Where does it ever state that evolution will continue?

The Synthesis ending is such a mess that guessing the consequences are impossible.

I hate to have to use the phrase...but here we go.

By that logic In destroy, where does it ever state that evolution will continue?

There isn't a catagorical yes or no to these questions, just implications and common sense.

[knightnblu]

You know, I wouldn't care if the Reapers were an entirely organic race. I would still kill them all. EDI and the Geth knew that engaging against the Reapers could be lethal. I didn't ask any more of them than I asked of Shepard when I blew the power transfer. In war, people die. EDI and the Geth were casualties of war as was Shepard. If the cost had been the Normandy and all aboard her I would still have chosen it. Why? Because justice demands destroy.

[Shaani]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

By that logic In destroy, where does it ever state that evolution will continue?

There isn't a catagorical yes or no to these questions, just implications and common sense.

It's never in question in Destroy, because Destroy does not let the Reapers overwrite the biology of every living thing.

[Wayning_Star]

Why do I see Leviathan swimming in their pool of self satisfaction waiting for Sheps revenge plots to kick in..such a good old Shepard. Gotta love it when their plan comes together.

(catalyst gone,blown up, reapers gone, blown up, tech gone, blown up, Edi/Geth gone blown up, Relays gone blown up... Bring out the thralls, it's been a long time coming, time to rock'n roll!!)

P.S. forgot to mention, the Leviathan ruled the MEU way before the Catalyst and friends built the relays..so they can 'get around' without them..The didn't mention it to Shep, it was on a 'need to know' basis.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 31 janvier 2013 - 04:50 .

[Shaani]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Why do I see Leviathan swimming in their pool of self satisfaction waiting for Sheps revenge plots to kick in..such a good old Shepard. Gotta love it when their plan comes together.

When they regain their old power in a few eons, that might possibly be a problem.

[Sajuro]

I have to agree with you, since I haven't seen a slide of Javik tearing out his implants screaming.

[Wayning_Star]

Shaani wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Why do I see Leviathan swimming in their pool of self satisfaction waiting for Sheps revenge plots to kick in..such a good old Shepard. Gotta love it when their plan comes together.

When they regain their old power in a few eons, that might possibly be a problem.

cannot trust the catalyst but can trust the organic leviathan to let us know how things are going for them, an apex race..that used to own the galaxy and looks at nature it's self as their tool kit...

oh, I'm certain there are only one or two of them around right now, and just a few random thralls about...sure it's true as everyone knows..from the slides.

(read dripping sarcasm)

[Wayning_Star]

Sajuro wrote...

I have to agree with you, since I haven't seen a slide of Javik tearing out his implants screaming.

Shep has grown attatched to implants as well..go figure?

[Sajuro]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I have to agree with you, since I haven't seen a slide of Javik tearing out his implants screaming.

Shep has grown attatched to implants as well..go figure?

yeah, but Shepard's schtick wasn't that all synthetics were evil and he wasn't called the avatar of vengeance in a time when his race was destroyed by Reapers.

[Shaani]

Wayning_Star wrote...

cannot trust the catalyst but can trust the organic leviathan to let us know how things are going for them, an apex race..that used to own the galaxy and looks at nature it's self as their tool kit...

oh, I'm certain there are only one or two of them around right now, and just a few random thralls about...sure it's true as everyone knows..from the slides.

(read dripping sarcasm)

They've had a billion years to rise up and reclaim their throne and defeat the Reapers.  If they were capable of doing so, they'd have done it.