242 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But ME3 didn't bear that trust out, did it?

Actually it did. Not having a 10 second breath scene in the destroy ending because you didn't play MP to get the required EMS is hardly worth nothing and yes that was the ONLY thing that mattered there.

Sure MP could help with the SP meaning you didn't have to get as many actions in the story, but it was hardly required.

MP assets should not affect the SP campaign at all.  You should not even be able to earn zots towards the SP campaign by MP grinding, they should be completely separate.  Down that way lies F2P shenanigans.

[In Exile]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I still don't understand how people can claim they've spent hundreds of dollars / hours into ME3's horde mode.

I'd imagine for some people it's that they didn't really play horde mode before?

[In Exile]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
Actually it did. Not having a 10 second breath scene in the destroy ending because you didn't play MP to get the required EMS is hardly worth nothing and yes that was the ONLY thing that mattered there.

Sure MP could help with the SP meaning you didn't have to get as many actions in the story, but it was hardly required.

MP made it impossible to get the bad endings in ME3 if you imported a baseline threshold of characters.

Modifié par In Exile, 22 janvier 2013 - 05:53 .

[wrdnshprd]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

MP is a purely optional addition. One that if you don't like you can easily avoid and you won't even remember it was included in the first place.

just like it was completely "optional" for ME3..  if you wanted to see one of the endings, it wasnt "optional".. hopefully bioware has learned their lesson and wont have the multiplayer affect the single player.. but based on their track record.. l have my doubts.

[Costin_Razvan]

Addai67 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

But ME3 didn't bear that trust out, did it?

Actually it did. Not having a 10 second breath scene in the destroy ending because you didn't play MP to get the required EMS is hardly worth nothing and yes that was the ONLY thing that mattered there.

Sure MP could help with the SP meaning you didn't have to get as many actions in the story, but it was hardly required.

MP assets should not affect the SP campaign at all.  You should not even be able to earn zots towards the SP campaign by MP grinding, they should be completely separate.  Down that way lies F2P shenanigans.

You haven't played the SP of ME3 to know what you are really talking about. Either way was a GRIND. in SP only by spending hours wandering around the galaxy searching every planet for a random object to get a few more points and with MP actually fighting Reapers.

The latter was a lot more fun and it was an option. Seriously the MP affecting the SP is one of the least important issues of ME3 and you know what? I regret not doing what you did and just not getting it at all, maybe then the memories of the characters I grew to care about wouldn't have been soiled by the trash that iss ME3.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 janvier 2013 - 06:06 .

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...
You haven't played the SP of ME3 to know what you are really talking about. Either way was a GRIND. in SP only by spending hours wandering around the galaxy searching every planet for a random object to get a few more points and with MP actually fighting Reapers.

The latter was a LOT more fun and it was an OPTION.

Doesn't matter, I'm talking about a precedent for how Bioware is going handle SP + MP.  We've seen plenty of forecasting on how EA views this, along with day-one DLC and "equipment packs" and other nickel-dime stuff.

[LinksOcarina]

Addai67 wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...
You haven't played the SP of ME3 to know what you are really talking about. Either way was a GRIND. in SP only by spending hours wandering around the galaxy searching every planet for a random object to get a few more points and with MP actually fighting Reapers.

The latter was a LOT more fun and it was an OPTION.

Doesn't matter, I'm talking about a precedent for how Bioware is going handle SP + MP.  We've seen plenty of forecasting on how EA views this, along with day-one DLC and "equipment packs" and other nickel-dime stuff.

So, basically the stuff that is working.

Concering EA's views on online connectivity, the doom and gloom forecast perpetuated by yellow journalists is actually more harmful because they have an axe to grind. Do you even know what their policy is?

I'm being serious in asking that question. What is their policy regarding online connectivity? Tell me in your own words, please. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 22 janvier 2013 - 06:45 .

[Addai]

LinksOcarina wrote...

I'm being serious in asking that question. What is their policy regarding online connectivity? Tell me in your own words, please. 

I don't need to- we've heard it in John Riccitello's and Frank Gibeau's words.  If you refuse to take their statements at face value, that's up to you.

[LinksOcarina]

Addai67 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

I'm being serious in asking that question. What is their policy regarding online connectivity? Tell me in your own words, please. 

I don't need to- we've heard it in John Riccitello's and Frank Gibeau's words.  If you refuse to take their statements at face value, that's up to you.

Actually, thats the point of contention, the fact that their words were miscontrued.

For example, what did Frank Gibeau say exactly as you remember it. 

[CrystalXPredator]

I'm only agree with a multiplayer, if they are going like Skyrim, with "Skyrim Online" thats the only thing wich makes alot of sense for a "Dragon Age Online", but not for DA3!! .__.

Anyway i think the Dragon Age dev. knews what they are doing right. I believe in them. :-)

[Addai]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Actually, thats the point of contention, the fact that their words were miscontrued.

For example, what did Frank Gibeau say exactly as you remember it.

You mean do I know that he supposedly wasn't saying that they aren't making single player only games anymore?  I do.  No need to correct my interpretations.  And if you want to trust EA to do it well, you're welcome to.  For many people Bioware has squandered any good faith in their sales packaging.

[LinksOcarina]

Addai67 wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

Actually, thats the point of contention, the fact that their words were miscontrued.

For example, what did Frank Gibeau say exactly as you remember it.

You mean do I know that he supposedly wasn't saying that they aren't making single player only games anymore? I do. No need to correct my interpretations. And if you want to trust EA to do it well, you're welcome to. For many people Bioware has squandered any good faith in their sales packaging.

You are still missing the point.

Did he at any time say that all games would have multiplayer? The myth we see all over the net based on the comments made is yes, they would, and no single player games exists.

But what he said was EA games would "include online applications and digital services to make them live 24/7/365."

So yes, I do need to correct your interpretation, because it a fabricated one since the language of the statement never said multiplayer to begin with. It said online applications, which is very blanket and, at best, can be used to fill in the blanks to mean multiplayer. The "gotcha" part is that Gibeau stated that "I have not greenlit one game to be developed as a single player experience," which can mean multiplayer is mandatory. IF anything that is the only part where Gibeau should have changed his speech. But we know for a fact that it's not as black and white as the myth is perpetuated, that simple things like social media use and online leaderboards for time trials, as crude examples of what Gibeau was talking about.

I should also point out the statements were designed to be a part of a presentation/speech made at a cloud gaming conference, which is all about this inter connectivity to begin with. It was also a speech that wasn't given at the time of the story "breaking," it was just written comments Gibeau was preparing.

And mind you, this is nothing new because of the transition to a gaming as a service model, something other companies have been doing for years now, or are just starting to push for. Cloud gaming is one example, we have Valves entire transition to gaming as a service as a popular example, we have the Uplay functions of Ubisoft as another.

It has little to do with trust honestly, it's more of pointing out the truth of the situation over falsehoods. Trust them or don't , but be mindful of the truth of the situation at least. 

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 22 janvier 2013 - 08:33 .

[74 Wrex]

F*ck Multiplayer it will never be good for Dragon Age 3

[Dave of Canada]

In Exile wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I still don't understand how people can claim they've spent hundreds of dollars / hours into ME3's horde mode.

I'd imagine for some people it's that they didn't really play horde mode before?

Perhaps you're right. Just didn't understand the appeal to playing a mode which was in other games for years.

[Addai]

LinksOcarina wrote...

You are still missing the point.

Did he at any time say that all games would have multiplayer? The myth we see all over the net based on the comments made is yes, they would, and no single player games exists.

I think you are still missing my point.  Sure we don't know if there's going to be MP in DA3, though I would be surprised if it wasn't.  But whether it's there or not, I don't want their "online applications and digital services."  I didn't ask to be morphed into Origin and it offers me nothing.  They're talking about things that have no relevance or draw to me, and making a big deal of them, while the quality of their SP games goes downhill.  Is one of these things related to the other?  I say it's a good bet.

[Lazengan]

Vrin wrote...

I was not a fan of ME3 MP for months. I am "old" and normally got killed whenever I tried other game multiplayer to the point of not bothering playing. I got hooked on ME3 MP and play now very regularly.

Before I played the ME3 MP, I didn't hate the fact that Bioware created it. I didn't use it. That fact didn't change anyone's experience at all. I was happy. People who played MP were happy etc...

I'll *NEVER* understand people who say "I'll never play DA3 MP and they should never include it"! No one's forcing you to play it. Other people like it. If it's there and you choose not to play it, why should you care at all?

the concern here is if Bioware decides to siphon funds from their main product to enhance multiplayer

and thus result in an unfinished/rushed.underdevelopped single player campaign like in DA2

[Lazengan]

Dave of Canada wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I still don't understand how people can claim they've spent hundreds of dollars / hours into ME3's horde mode.

I'd imagine for some people it's that they didn't really play horde mode before?

Perhaps you're right. Just didn't understand the appeal to playing a mode which was in other games for years.

ME3 multiplayer in fact offers an interesting hybrid of MMORPG tab targeting and TPS cover shooters. With extremely unique and mechanically deep gameplay

Modifié par Lazengan, 22 janvier 2013 - 08:58 .

[Liamv2]

74 Wrex wrote...

F*ck Multiplayer it will never be good for Dragon Age 3

It's not out yet so how on earth can you know?

[EpicBoot2daFace]

In Exile wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I still don't understand how people can claim they've spent hundreds of dollars / hours into ME3's horde mode.

I'd imagine for some people it's that they didn't really play horde mode before?

- No competitive multiplayer
- No co-op side stories
- No campaign co-op

They played it safe and just copy/pasted Gears of War's horde mode. If this was the plan all along, I question their judgement. There is a lot of room for great co-op experiences that continue the story from a different perspective, similar to Halo 4's Spartan Ops and GRAW 2's side-story co-op modes.

Ubisoft ended up going backwards. They took out that cool side-story co-op in the new Ghost Recon and replaced it with a generic copy/paste of horde mode.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 22 janvier 2013 - 09:11 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I can click out the window to the BSN at any time and go and play games. If someone is insufferable or vulgar or annoying, I can just stop doing it and still enjoy gaming completely free of the BSN's influence.

However, one cannot play MP in a game and not run the risk of people being juvenile, vulgar or a pain to be around. I'm glad your track record with ME3 has been good, but undoubtedly the risk is still there. Lack of manners and decency on MP is a widespread problem, occurring in much more than just Bioware's games.

All the measures you take to avoid disrespectful behaviour on an internet forum still apply to multiplayer gaming. You can move on to try something else, whether it be a different MP session, the single player mode, or even go play a different game altogether and come back later.

I haven't played as much as Maria, but I have actually never run into a twit while playing ME3 multiplayer, in large part because I have a small group of people that I typically play it with. Some of these people I know in real life (old university classmates typically), a couple are forumites from various places that I have been a frequent poster.

Even in games of Counterstrike (going back 13 years now...) it was easy to ignore the petulant ones, and in my local area (Edmonton based server) the real twits typically got shunned off the servers by the typically mature group anyways. It helped that most of us knew each other, or were only 1 or 2 degrees of separation from each other.


It sucks if you don't know anyone that would also be interested in playing with you, but I have two really good friends that I typically co-op game with, to the point where a game offering co-op piques our interest simply because it contains co-op. Our favourite part of SWTOR was doing the class quests, which actually doesn't even involve any of the other group members. This is because they were the most well written, and it was just cool watching your friend make his or her choices, as well as sharing the choices I make with them. I have co-op'd through both IWD campaigns with 2 friends, each of us controlling 2 characters. I actually have never played through either of them by myself.

I'll agree the experience is probably less interesting when playing with a total stranger, but fortunately I find gaming is becoming more popular so I am finding it easier to find people that game among my actual friends (rather than just tapping the geekier friends).

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 22 janvier 2013 - 09:10 .

[Lazengan]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I still don't understand how people can claim they've spent hundreds of dollars / hours into ME3's horde mode.

I'd imagine for some people it's that they didn't really play horde mode before?

- No competitive multiplayer
- No co-op side stories
- No campaign co-op

They played it safe and just copy/pasted Gears of War's horde mode. If this was the plan all along, I question their judgement. There is a lot of room for great co-op experiences that continue the story from a different perspective, similar to Halo 4's Spartan Ops and GRAW 2's side-story co-op modes.

Ubisoft ended up going backwards. They took out that cool side-story co-op in the new Ghost Recon and replaced it with a generic copy/paste of horde mode.

horde mode can be done properly if there is room for mechanical creativity and depth

which Left 4 dead 1,2 and ME3 multiplayer does perfectly

however it is a buggy mess...

[Fredvdp]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I haven't played as much as Maria, but I have actually never run into a twit while playing ME3 multiplayer, in large part because I have a small group of people that I typically play it with.

I think there would be more unpleasant behavior if the game had text chat. On PC, very few people use mics in random teams, so there's zero communication and little chance of being trolled by juvenille players.

There was one time, however, where I was playing a game and someone had a porn video on. he had his mic set to 'stereo mix'.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Lazengan wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I still don't understand how people can claim they've spent hundreds of dollars / hours into ME3's horde mode.

I'd imagine for some people it's that they didn't really play horde mode before?

- No competitive multiplayer
- No co-op side stories
- No campaign co-op

They played it safe and just copy/pasted Gears of War's horde mode. If this was the plan all along, I question their judgement. There is a lot of room for great co-op experiences that continue the story from a different perspective, similar to Halo 4's Spartan Ops and GRAW 2's side-story co-op modes.

Ubisoft ended up going backwards. They took out that cool side-story co-op in the new Ghost Recon and replaced it with a generic copy/paste of horde mode.

horde mode can be done properly if there is room for mechanical creativity and depth

which Left 4 dead 1,2 and ME3 multiplayer does perfectly

however it is a buggy mess...

I haven't played L4D, so I can't comment on it. But I have played Gears of War 2 & 3 horde mode, and I think they are the best. ME3's horde mode pales in comparison and gets boring really quickly. Combine that with amateur map design, and well... it's really not worth investing a whole lot of time into.

[Brockololly]

I'm going to guess based on the playtesting survey from the Twitter thread that MP is no doubt in DA3 and the survey even gives some insight into what kind of multiplayer:


Presumably, they wouldn't ask about these kinds of features for the sake of play testing if they weren't already in the game.

Which goes back to the November 2011 Kotaku article on DA3 having multiplayer ( and using Frostbite 2, which we know is now true):

"The multiplayer is supposedly an arena-based affair and features player versus environment (PvE) elements as well as player versus player (PvP), as well as humans fighting dragons. Details on what PvE battles entail are scant."

Which just gets to the question of how MP would work in Dragon Age, especially if its player versus player? If some of the big pillars of Dragon Age combat are full party control and real time with pause, how would you pull that off in multiplayer against other live people? With Mass Effect, it was easy to see how that translates to online MP. With Dragon Age? Seems any MP there could possibly be pared down to single character control and no pausing, a la Mass Effect. At which point it would almost seem like different games entirely.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 janvier 2013 - 09:22 .

[Lazengan]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Lazengan wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I still don't understand how people can claim they've spent hundreds of dollars / hours into ME3's horde mode.

I'd imagine for some people it's that they didn't really play horde mode before?

- No competitive multiplayer
- No co-op side stories
- No campaign co-op

They played it safe and just copy/pasted Gears of War's horde mode. If this was the plan all along, I question their judgement. There is a lot of room for great co-op experiences that continue the story from a different perspective, similar to Halo 4's Spartan Ops and GRAW 2's side-story co-op modes.

Ubisoft ended up going backwards. They took out that cool side-story co-op in the new Ghost Recon and replaced it with a generic copy/paste of horde mode.

horde mode can be done properly if there is room for mechanical creativity and depth

which Left 4 dead 1,2 and ME3 multiplayer does perfectly

however it is a buggy mess...

I haven't played L4D, so I can't comment on it. But I have played Gears of War 2 & 3 horde mode, and I think they are the best. ME3's horde mode pales in comparison and gets boring really quickly. Combine that with amateur map design, and well... it's really not worth investing a whole lot of time into.

It's not about the "click click" "pew pew"

it's about how malleable the abilities and the environment is, and how many interesting things you can do within the game. Using lash to throw units off ledges. The N7 Slayer being able to teleport through walls. reload/animation canceling. And even how the devs encourage us to test possible combinations with our abilities, whether the effects and intended or not

I'm really discovering something new every month