1258 réponses à ce sujet

[Faust1979]

ajsrise wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

This game does have happy endings! destroy the reapers, if you have a enough EMS earth is saved from destruction and the galaxy rebuilds itself and is able to move. Also if you have enough EMS Shepard survives. How is that not a happy ending? explain it to me

If you find genocide happy then i am scared.

That is what you set out to do though wipe out the reapers the galaxy rebuilds itself, billions of lives are saved the galaxy survives= happy ending

[RocketManSR2]

Shepard survives? Prove it.

[MegaSovereign]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Shepard survives? Prove it.

It's the last thing we see.. Shepard surviving the Crucible activation.

The burden of proof that he isn't alive is on your shoulders.

[AB Souldier]

Faust1979 wrote...

ajsrise wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

This game does have happy endings! destroy the reapers, if you have a enough EMS earth is saved from destruction and the galaxy rebuilds itself and is able to move. Also if you have enough EMS Shepard survives. How is that not a happy ending? explain it to me

If you find genocide happy then i am scared.

That is what you set out to do though wipe out the reapers the galaxy rebuilds itself, billions of lives are saved the galaxy survives= happy ending

EDIT: BTW i was talking about genicide towards the geth.

You are wrong. I set out to save the galaxy from the beginning. Unlike the Reapers, the geth fought in self defence. The reapers have been commiting genocide for years and years. Commiting genocide to synthetics who were just defending themselves and later on helping the quarians rebuild (if you got peace) is not something a normal person would consider happy. There was no moral reason for the geth and edi to die.

Modifié par ajsrise, 19 janvier 2013 - 08:36 .

[Sundance31us]

MegaSovereign wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Shepard survives? Prove it.

It's the last thing we see.. Shepard surviving the Crucible activation.

The burden of proof that he isn't alive is on your shoulders.

Whether he lives or not is up to each of us to decide.

[Faust1979]

Sundance31us wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Shepard survives? Prove it.

It's the last thing we see.. Shepard surviving the Crucible activation.

The burden of proof that he isn't alive is on your shoulders.

Whether he lives or not is up to each of us to decide.

yeah it is if you get the Shapard breathing scene and want Shepard to be alive and go on to live a happy life have some babies, reunite with his crew then that's whats going to happen.

[RocketManSR2]

MegaSovereign wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Shepard survives? Prove it.

It's the last thing we see.. Shepard surviving the Crucible activation.

The burden of proof that he isn't alive is on your shoulders.

I saw a critically injured person gasping for air in a pile of rubble. That is the last we see of Shepard. I drew a conclusion based on what I could see and it wasn't pretty.

- lol So I paid $80 to imagine my own happy ending? Wow, great. Thanks, BioWare. <_<

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 19 janvier 2013 - 08:41 .

[MegaSovereign]

Sundance31us wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Shepard survives? Prove it.

It's the last thing we see.. Shepard surviving the Crucible activation.

The burden of proof that he isn't alive is on your shoulders.

Whether he lives or not is up to each of us to decide.

Well I don't need to "decide" this one. I'm taking the endings at face value.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 19 janvier 2013 - 08:40 .

[dreamgazer]

MegaSovereign wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Shepard survives? Prove it.

It's the last thing we see.. Shepard surviving the Crucible activation.

The burden of proof that he isn't alive is on your shoulders.

Hell, it's possible that the breath scene happens even in lower-EMS versions of destroy.

Higher-EMS players just have the "privilege" to see it.  Not seeing it =/= it didn't happen.

That form of interpretation becomes a slippery slope.

[Iakus]

Faust1979 wrote...

This game does have happy endings! destroy the reapers, if you have a enough EMS earth is saved from destruction and the galaxy rebuilds itself and is able to move. Also if you have enough EMS Shepard survives. How is that not a happy ending? explain it to me

Betrayal
Genocide
Capitualation to Reaper ideology
A faceless, broken body alone and gasping is considered a "ray of hope"

[78stonewobble]

Faust1979 wrote...

ajsrise wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

This game does have happy endings! destroy the reapers, if you have a enough EMS earth is saved from destruction and the galaxy rebuilds itself and is able to move. Also if you have enough EMS Shepard survives. How is that not a happy ending? explain it to me

If you find genocide happy then i am scared.

That is what you set out to do though wipe out the reapers the galaxy rebuilds itself, billions of lives are saved the galaxy survives= happy ending

Well maybe I'm strange here ... but that is not a happy ending to me. It's a ... I'm not unhappy ... ending to me.

Basically the emotional equivalent of passing a grade but far from ace'ing it.

Or put another way:

Endings scale: Happy 0---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9 Sad
Ending 1:                                           3 
Ending 2:                                                 4
Ending 3:                                                             6

Range of endings = 4.  

Personally I'd have preferred:
Endings scale: Happy 0---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9 Sad
Ending 1:                               1    
Ending 2:                                                   4  
Ending 3:                                                                           8

Range of endings = 8.

More happy, more sad and more consequence from the choices.

EDIT: I also reject "realism" as an argument against happy endings because if you wanted realistic the only ending would be loosing to the reapers.

However that could have been made into a powerfull tragic end (coincidentally also a better sad end than what we got).

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 19 janvier 2013 - 08:47 .

[Grand Wazoo]

Because happy endings apparently aren't artistic enough. And making a happy ending as one option doesn't equal deep, dark and realistic because Mass Effect was so realistic to begin with.

I didn't even want a happy ending in the first place though, I just wanted to see my Shepard make it through, but Bioware wanted to kill and wash their hands off Shepard, and even then they weren't ready to go all the way. And so I am left with this.. something.

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Shepard survives? Prove it.

It's the last thing we see.. Shepard surviving the Crucible activation.

The burden of proof that he isn't alive is on your shoulders.

Whether he lives or not is up to each of us to decide.

Well I don't need to "decide" this one. I'm taking the endings at face value.

Taking it at face value makes Shepard as bad as, if not worse than, Saren:

My way is the only way any of us will survive. I'm forging an alliance between us and the Reapers, between organics and machines, and in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever existed

[MegaSovereign]

dreamgazer wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Shepard survives? Prove it.

It's the last thing we see.. Shepard surviving the Crucible activation.

The burden of proof that he isn't alive is on your shoulders.

Hell, it's possible that the breath scene happens even in lower-EMS versions of destroy.

Higher-EMS players just have the "privilege" to see it.  Not seeing it =/= it didn't happen.

That form of interpretation becomes a slippery slope.

And it's one that I doubt many people adopted in the first place considering the outrage behind requiring MP to see it.

I'm going with Occam's razor on this one. It's possible that Shepard died off-screen, but I'm not going to make this assumption unless I see it in someway, even if it's just a plack on the Memorial. I'm also not going to assume that the Normandy runs out of fuel and that Javik ends up eating everyone to survive.

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sundance31us wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Shepard survives? Prove it.

It's the last thing we see.. Shepard surviving the Crucible activation.

The burden of proof that he isn't alive is on your shoulders.

Whether he lives or not is up to each of us to decide.

Well I don't need to "decide" this one. I'm taking the endings at face value.

Taking it at face value makes Shepard as bad as, if not worse than, Saren:

My way is the only way any of us will survive. I'm forging an alliance between us and the Reapers, between organics and machines, and in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever existed

I didn't forge an Alliance with the Reapers. I killed them.

[Tonymac]

In my opinion, the Devs did not want a happy ending. They wanted to be new and different - forge a new path for game endings with something that (they hoped) some might see as 'deep'. I think that had Bioware hired some writers of renown things would have been immensely different.

I saw it as insulting - the very epitome of terrible endings. The whole major plot of the ME3 was frustrating, sadistic, dark - and noninspired. I have seen no worse ending in any story, movie, or another game.

What I hate the most about it was that ME3 had incredile potential. Some of the missions and mini-stories had a lot of heart and soul. They made you smile inside. All of that greatness was destroyed with a quick and terrible ending. Introducing a new 'evil guy' at the very end was horrid writing - along with killing off Shepard. All of our choices were for naught, all of our 'Galactic Readiness' was purely a waste. In the end, all you get is to choose your doom. How pathetic.

Bioware needs to hire some good writers. They need to get rid of the ones they have who should be taking antidepressents. They need to remember that fans and people who play games do so for FUN. Mass Effect was never meant to be a sadistic tear-jerker. It has zero replayability for me because its so depressing.

Look how far they have fallen! In ME1 you had to make a choice. It sucked! Choose Ash or Kaidan. It was terrible! It was so terrible that it was a great moment in gaming history. Had I been able to save them both, you can bet I damn sure would have. I hated having to make that choice - and yet I loved it. It made the game feel real. There were consequences of your decisions. Ones that affected your friends - and how long they lived.

In ME2, you could tailor how many lived and how many died - all through your efforts and decisions. You could make it so that Joker and EDI made it out, or you could make it so that the whole crew made it out. Anything and everything was on the menu. How brilliant! How well thought out. How deep...

Mass Effect 3 lacked the same spirit.

[dreamgazer]

Mcfly616 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...


"Why does the sun come up? Or are the stars just pinholes in the curtain of night? Who knows?"

But what I do know is that because Bioware let their pride get the best of them, they've forever damaged their reputation and trust with their fanbase. The franchise still has it's fans, but there are a lot less of them nowadays because of Bioware's foolish mistake and stubbornness to properly correct that mistake.

what "mistake" needed correction?

An ambiguous ending that splits the universe in three (four!) different possible directions, appealing to rivaling ideologies, explained poorly in terms of logical application, and not offering enough catharsis for a noticeable segment of the fanbase.

none of that is a "mistake". And "explained poorly in terms of logical application" is merely an opinion

The whole thing is an opinion, McFly, both it being a mistake and lacking logical application (*cough*). Disagreeing with creative decisions is always relegated to an "opinion".

However:

If they were to create "ME4", which ending would they select (railroad)? Would it anger those who felt their choices were better fitting for the universe? What if they---gasp---went with refuse and showed the Reapers being defeated conventionally? Can you even come close to a concrete prediction of where this universe will be headed from here, and will this decision matter at all moving forward?

That's why I believe it would have been a mistake even in ideal circumstances, since building an observable narrative bridge from the final decision to the events following is crucial to furthering the universe. Unless they just go to a new galaxy and pretend all this didn't happen, which is possible (sorta like a hybrid of The Next Generation and Final Fantasy). Even then, you'll still be left with plenty of confused BioWare fans.

[Iakus]

You agreed to one of the Catalyst's new "solutions" and committed genocide on your own allies in teh process. Or at the very least, betrayed a squadmate and effectively shot her in the back "for the greater good"

[RocketManSR2]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Well I don't need to "decide" this one. I'm taking the endings at face value.

I took the breath scene at face value. Shepard is a dead man. The Citadel explosion I can headcanon away, maybe there were some powerful shields or heavy armor around the chamber where Shepard was, Idk. However, he is now badly injured, suffering a gunshot wound and who knows what else, no medical personnel anywhere nearby, and the Normandy is out of the Sol system and would take days to get back. Yup, he gets to die a slow, cold, lonely death. His friends and LI will be greeted by a corpse or a casket covered in an Alliance flag. Yay, happy. 

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 19 janvier 2013 - 08:51 .

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

You agreed to one of the Catalyst's new "solutions" and committed genocide on your own allies in teh process. Or at the very least, betrayed a squadmate and effectively shot her in the back "for the greater good"

Right and I was forced to work with Cerberus, a terrorist organization, and I was forced to blow up a Batarian system just to delay the Reapers.

My "principles" were already compromised. At least the Geth and EDI died knowing the risk. Maybe they didn't know that the Crucible would wipe them out, but they knew that striking the Reapers head on was basically a Suicide Mission. It was partly because of their efforts that we were even able to defeat the Reapers.

My Shepard takes responsibility, but they died as heros and their sacrifice did not go in vein. Comparing me to Saren is a pretty ridiculous analogy, especially when Saren did what he did because he wanted to avoid major casualities. Your argument is fundamentally flawed because the "ends justifies the means" isn't exclusively embraced by bad guys.

And it wasn't the Catalyst's solution. The Crucible was created and activated on our terms. The Catalyst is bound by the choices, not the other way around.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 19 janvier 2013 - 08:59 .

[Wolfva2]

Skipping all of the arguments and such, I'll address the original question. Why can't ME3 have a happy ending? Because that's how the writers wrote it. Heck, why couldn't Frodo Baggins live until a ripe old age at Bag End, surrounded by children and grand children? Because Tolkien took him in another direction. We are neither the potter, nor the potter's clay. We're the tourists looking on going, "Oooo! A potter!".

[Sundance31us]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

I took the breath scene at face value. Shepard is a dead man. The Citadel explosion I can headcanon away, maybe there were some powerful shields or heavy armor around the chamber where Shepard was, Idk. However, he is now badly injured, suffering a gunshot wound and who knows what else, no medical personnel anywhere nearby, and the Normandy is out of the Sol system and would take days to get back. Yup, he gets to die a slow, cold, lonely death. His friends and LI will be greeted by a corpse or a casket covered in an Alliance flag. Yay, happy. 

There's a distinct possiblility that there are other survivors on the Citadel.

[Faust1979]

iakus wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

This game does have happy endings! destroy the reapers, if you have a enough EMS earth is saved from destruction and the galaxy rebuilds itself and is able to move. Also if you have enough EMS Shepard survives. How is that not a happy ending? explain it to me

Betrayal
Genocide
Capitualation to Reaper ideology
A faceless, broken body alone and gasping is considered a "ray of hope"

that's war for ya, they even said early on in interviews that the game would be darker. But the fact that Shepard can survive and the galaxy can be rebuilt is happy enough for me. Making the game have a to bright and shiny ending would ruin the narrative.  Lots of bad things had to happen in this game, stuff you're responisble for either directly or indirectly. War is hell that's part of the point of the story. Seeing how far you're willing to go to win. 

[MegaSovereign]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Well I don't need to "decide" this one. I'm taking the endings at face value.

I took the breath scene at face value. Shepard is a dead man. The Citadel explosion I can headcanon away, maybe there were some powerful shields or heavy armor around the chamber where Shepard was, Idk. However, he is now badly injured, suffering a gunshot wound and who knows what else, no medical personnel anywhere nearby, and the Normandy is out of the Sol system and would take days to get back. Yup, he gets to die a slow, cold, lonely death. His friends and LI will be greeted by a corpse or a casket covered in an Alliance flag. Yay, happy. 

So what you're basically implying is that Shepard's legs are either broken or blown off? Why can't he get up?

Shepard survived the Crucible activation. After all that crap he's been through I'm suppose to headcanon him lying there, waiting for the wound to fester? That's very uncharacteristic of my Shepard, especially considering his Sole Survivor background.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 19 janvier 2013 - 09:11 .

[Iakus]

Faust1979 wrote...

iakus wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

This game does have happy endings! destroy the reapers, if you have a enough EMS earth is saved from destruction and the galaxy rebuilds itself and is able to move. Also if you have enough EMS Shepard survives. How is that not a happy ending? explain it to me

Betrayal
Genocide
Capitualation to Reaper ideology
A faceless, broken body alone and gasping is considered a "ray of hope"

that's war for ya, they even said early on in interviews that the game would be darker. But the fact that Shepard can survive and the galaxy can be rebuilt is happy enough for me. Making the game have a to bright and shiny ending would ruin the narrative.  Lots of bad things had to happen in this game, stuff you're responisble for either directly or indirectly. War is hell that's part of the point of the story. Seeing how far you're willing to go to win. 

You asked how this is not a "happy ending"  I answered.  Don't try to change the subject.