1258 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Yes, Shepard dies in almost all of the endings and it's also true that all the endings have their "catches" which can cause moral conflict or disturbance, but they are (except for refusal) all happy endings in their own right:

Too much moral conflict negates any happiness attatched to the ending.

If the price is too high, the victory is no longer worth it.

So no, these aren't all "happy endings i ntheri won right" for a lot of people.

[FreshRevenge]

All I want is an ending that I get to save the galaxy and destroy the Reapers. I want to save the Geth and Edi.

I do not want to control reapers!

I do not want to syntheses anything!

All I want to do is destroy the Reapers without sacrificing anything!

Think of the Catalyst as Hitler. Their ideas were barbaric and they both deserve to put out their existence because they threaten life.

This idea that the Leviathans created an intelligence that turned against them and started this massacring of all organic life is hogwash. This intelligence needs to be destroyed, The Leviathans made a grave mistake by creating it. They(Leviathans) designed something that almost destroyed their existence. Wouldn't you think you made a mistake and you are responsible for the millions of years of slaughter. What right does this intelligence have to justify its actions? It was created not uncreated or just there.

All I want is a logical and sensible ending. The three ending or 4 endings if you want to count Refuse are not logical.

Bioware made a great series but they taint it with 10 minutes of nonsense. Even with the Leviathan DLC it doesn't fix it!

This isn't the only board that I have read that people are pissed off about the ending. I have read multiple threads, so if Bioware can admit that they made an error and fix the ending and I am not talking about the EC content either. They need to fix it and big time. So I hope that whatever DLC that they are working on now is going to resolve this horrible mess.

I shouldn't feel depress about finishing a game. It has no replay value if the game depresses you to the point of turning the game off!

I never got that feeling from Mass Effect 1 or Mass Effect 2 and I have played those games a number of times!

Again all I want is Reapers destroyed, Catalyst destroyed and Geth and Edi lives and all the other organic races live. Why the bloody hell is that so hard to implement?

I would like to see Shepard alive, I mean she is going to die by old age anyway, so what does it matter if she lives?

This idea the hero needs to die is so old and so stale it needs to stop!

Anyway I am playing Dragon Age and I am liking it a lot. I hope by the time DA3 comes out they don't pull another ME3 ending. That would be the straw the broke the camels back! No more Bioware games!

[78stonewobble]

Reorte wrote...

78stonewobble wrote...

Ewrgh *long sigh* ... It is not a thing... I can comprehend.

Hehe

At some point you have to laugh at it all.

You do make some good points about the "implausibility" of the various scenarios.

I guess I've watched enough star trek technobabble to buy "a subspace signal only used by the reaper alliance that can be hacked with the, unexpected by reapers, friendly helpfull ai of the geth and edi and destroy the reapers".

I usually have pretty much the same reaction when Star Trek does it but I don't recall it ever going to the same scale so the reaction is also scaled down. It's downright bad writing and the fact that occurs at the most crucial point of the entire story is the killing blow. At least with Trek the odds are that it's a bad episode that you can forget about, your settings and characters can carry on and pretend it never happened, which makes it easier to ignore. Imagine if the events of Voyager's "Threshold" had been the culimnation of every story ever told in Trek, and that was the end of it... At least the writers of that episode had the decency to admit it was a mess (no artistic integrity for them!)

I can live with such nonsense to get through some parts in the middle of a story but it just ruins it for me being the main culmination of it all.

Also in star trek. Usually the technobabble itself wasn't that important. It could be contrived plot devices but... It was ok because the focus and point was on something else.

Usually it was decent enough as you say to not detract from the main story and relatively plausible (with in the confinements of that universe).

Threshold? That was the one with, whats his name Tom Paris, going warp 10 and being everywhere at once in the universe right? Or something like that.

EDIT: Speaking of .. Ewrgh ... I'm rewatching the star wars prequels.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 20 janvier 2013 - 08:29 .

[RocketManSR2]

FreshRevenge wrote...

Again all I want is Reapers destroyed, Catalyst destroyed and Geth and Edi lives and all the other organic races live. Why the bloody hell is that so hard to implement?

Because depressing stories in games are the new "in" thing, apparently. That trend has infected BioWare, too. I won't be buying anymore BioWare games without spoiling the ending for myself. I can't trust that they won't pull this crap again.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 20 janvier 2013 - 08:37 .

[WhiteKnyght]

1. If there was a perfect happy ending, everybody would go out of their way to get it. They'd ignore everything else and go for that alone.

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

[hiraeth]

iakus wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Yes, Shepard dies in almost all of the endings and it's also true that all the endings have their "catches" which can cause moral conflict or disturbance, but they are (except for refusal) all happy endings in their own right:

Too much moral conflict negates any happiness attatched to the ending.

If the price is too high, the victory is no longer worth it.

So no, these aren't all "happy endings i ntheri won right" for a lot of people.

agree w/ iakus. even if there are some aspects of a particular ending that are happy, others might be depressing and as a result, the ending as a whole can leave the player feeling quite sad. for example, sure there were happy parts to destroy (e.g., the galaxy rebuilt), but there were parts that hands-down sucked (e.g., sacrificing EDI and the geth, shepard's story being left in the rubble--literally-, etc.).

[archangel1996]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

1. If there was a perfect happy ending, everybody would go out of their way to get it. They'd ignore everything else and go for that alone.

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

To me a perfect ending is an ending in which every choice i made during the games matters, in ME3 it's all degraded to War Assets...numbers.....is this a ****ing joke? I play far too much MP and ME3 alone and i get a "better" ending than when i play the whole saga without touching the MP...why? numbers
But then again, in ME3 3 or 4 choices of the previous chapters mattered during the game, i don't know why i tought they would matter in the ending <_<

Modifié par archangel1996, 20 janvier 2013 - 08:48 .

[Dr_Extrem]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

1. If there was a perfect happy ending, everybody would go out of their way to get it. They'd ignore everything else and go for that alone.

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

to point 1.

i think thats not right. this forum disproves your stance on a daily basis. there are several people here, who play there shepards in a certain, non-perfect way. just because there is the possibility for a happoier ending, does not mean, everybody will choose it. would you?


to point 2:

if i take your definition as an example, there should have been a nearly perfect ending ingame.if all actions were right, the consequence should have been a nearly perfect ending.

[Iakus]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

1. If there was a perfect happy ending, everybody would go out of their way to get it. They'd ignore everything else and go for that alone.

In DAO I have one game where the Dark Ritual was performed
I have one game where I let Logain slay the archdemon
I have one game where Alistair took teh blow
I have one game where I performed the Ultimate Sacrifice

Which one is the perfect, happy ending?

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

All the actions have pretty much the same consequences for Shepard (death) so how is that any better?

Edit:  Not to mention people went through the Suicide Mission with causalties all the time just to see what would happen.  Happy" endings =/= "perfect" endings

Modifié par iakus, 20 janvier 2013 - 09:15 .

[vallore]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

1. If there was a perfect happy ending, everybody would go out of their way to get it. They'd ignore everything else and go for that alone.

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

1.People play games to have fun. If the writers provide a sad ending, a bittersweet ending, and a happy ending then, everything else constant, we can assume people will choose the ending that suits best their tastes.

If we assume most players choose the happy ending then the logical conclusion is that such an ending is more fun for them. Then, why on Earth make a game deliberately less fun for a significant part of your audience by depriving them of the option they like best?

2. I would argue that there isn’t a single central theme in Mass Effect.

For instance, in ME3 the writers invite us to choose between Sacrifice and Unity at the very beginning (when Shepard is asked how to defeat the reapers by the defense committee), and later near the ending we are asked to choose again when Shepard gives her final speech, (again focusing on sacrifice or the “ties that bind us”).

Now the game fully supports this; you can forge a powerful alliance of peoples by uniting the galaxy with sacrifice only playing a secondary role in the game if you choose to do so…. Only at the ending is this completely reversed and sacrifice, (of a mostly pointless variety, imo) becomes the only acknowledged theme….

[Reorte]

iakus wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

All the actions have pretty much the same consequences for Shepard (death) so how is that any better?

Edit:  Not to mention people went through the Suicide Mission with causalties all the time just to see what would happen.  Happy" endings =/= "perfect" endings

I'd also say that the all the actions producing similar consequences negates the choices, not the other way around. Unless one choice does turn out to be better then you may as well have tossed a coin to make it. It's only when you realise that damn, you made the wrong decision does it really hit home, and because I thought that would be the case at the time I really agonised over some of the choices (and was why I had thought ME was so good). All I would say is that there need to be some at least vague hints about which is the better otherwise you still may as well have tossed a coin at the time. Knowing you had no way of knowing negates the impact too.

[SpamBot2000]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

1. If there was a perfect happy ending, everybody would go out of their way to get it. They'd ignore everything else and go for that alone.

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

1. That would be a problem because what again? Oh right, BioWare came to bury Shepard, not to praise him. But even that's not an issue anymore, since 'Hey, let's make a sequel after all!' So there's no need to have the fans beat each other up over their preferred endings. 

2. The evil that men do lives after them. You have no playable consequences for your big epic choice. The choice is false.

[Funkdrspot]

Wow some people are so hard headed. ME3's ending isn't going to change. Asking "why can't ME3 have a happy ending" is like asking "why can't bambi's mom survive!!?!??"

Even DISNEY movies have loss sometimes. Deal with it.

[archangel1996]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Wow some people are so hard headed. ME3's ending isn't going to change. Asking "why can't ME3 have a happy ending" is like asking "why can't bambi's mom survive!!?!??"

Even DISNEY movies have loss sometimes. Deal with it.

At least try to be original.....

[Faust1979]

FreshRevenge wrote...

All I want is an ending that I get to save the galaxy and destroy the Reapers. I want to save the Geth and Edi.

I do not want to control reapers!

I do not want to syntheses anything!

All I want to do is destroy the Reapers without sacrificing anything!

Think of the Catalyst as Hitler. Their ideas were barbaric and they both deserve to put out their existence because they threaten life.

This idea that the Leviathans created an intelligence that turned against them and started this massacring of all organic life is hogwash. This intelligence needs to be destroyed, The Leviathans made a grave mistake by creating it. They(Leviathans) designed something that almost destroyed their existence. Wouldn't you think you made a mistake and you are responsible for the millions of years of slaughter. What right does this intelligence have to justify its actions? It was created not uncreated or just there.

All I want is a logical and sensible ending. The three ending or 4 endings if you want to count Refuse are not logical.

Bioware made a great series but they taint it with 10 minutes of nonsense. Even with the Leviathan DLC it doesn't fix it!

This isn't the only board that I have read that people are pissed off about the ending. I have read multiple threads, so if Bioware can admit that they made an error and fix the ending and I am not talking about the EC content either. They need to fix it and big time. So I hope that whatever DLC that they are working on now is going to resolve this horrible mess.

I shouldn't feel depress about finishing a game. It has no replay value if the game depresses you to the point of turning the game off!

I never got that feeling from Mass Effect 1 or Mass Effect 2 and I have played those games a number of times!

Again all I want is Reapers destroyed, Catalyst destroyed and Geth and Edi lives and all the other organic races live. Why the bloody hell is that so hard to implement?

I would like to see Shepard alive, I mean she is going to die by old age anyway, so what does it matter if she lives?

This idea the hero needs to die is so old and so stale it needs to stop!

Anyway I am playing Dragon Age and I am liking it a lot. I hope by the time DA3 comes out they don't pull another ME3 ending. That would be the straw the broke the camels back! No more Bioware games!

Every war has loss and sacrafice that's the point of this story. Victory doesn't come without a price. Your choices have consequences.  Your shepard does live with a high enough EMS.  That is what I love about the Mass Effect trilogy especially the third one it tries to give you a real look at war and it's effects.  Some people just want a spoon fed easy ending that goes against what the story is about

[Reorte]

magnetite wrote...

I think some may have misundersood how the series works though. Or what is realistic to ask from a developer (eg. a thousand different endings based on each individual variation of choice is a bit much).

Sure, but there are some examples of where it happened before the game - choices from ME3 and ME2 could make a huge difference to the geth / quarian conflict for example. That's the sort of impact I was expecting, whereas with the rachni all it really boiled down to were a few war assets. I was expecting to see people and planets live or die depending upon my decisions. We got one case of that and even that didn't really affect the climax. I suppose something like the suicide mission outcomes, but on a much larger scale, i.e. worlds instead of characters. And perhaps a bit of wargaming with war assets (althought that sort of scale was really Hackett's job I suppose).

Modifié par Reorte, 21 janvier 2013 - 12:11 .

[BD Manchild]

OP: Because apparently such a thing is too "videogamey".

In all seriousness, I have no idea. Right at the last hurdle Bioware forgot the all-important "Keep It Simple, Stupid" rule. While the subplots such as Rannoch and Tuchanka were great, the main plot itself was always weak. It didn't need to try to get metaphysical or "intelligent" (a term I use very loosely as it's actually moronic beyond belief) in the final ten minutes in a way that completely detaches it thematically or narratively from the story. It tried to get too clever when there really was no need.

As for me, I don't think the ending could ever really be considered truly "happy" (let's face it, a lot of characters that we'd come to know and like had lost their lives before we got to that point, and the death toll across the galaxy probably stretched well into the billions, at the very least), even if we put aside the mess that we actually got. All I ever wanted from the game was a satisfying ending, one that fit the series thematically and narratively and made sense. As it is, I can't play through the series again because I feel like I'm just standing behind a cow waiting for it to crap on my face.

[TheRealJayDee]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Asking "why can't ME3 have a happy ending" is like asking "why can't bambi's mom survive!!?!??"

Even DISNEY movies have loss sometimes. Deal with it.

I'll just quote myself from earlier in this thread here for a a change:

TheRealJayDee wrote...

I find it really fascinating when people act as if there'd been no casualties at all before the final decision...

[PainCakesx]

The overall feel of Mass Effect 3 reminds me of The Dark Knight Rises. A seemingly hopeless situation against a seemingly unstoppable foe. A dark, bleak tone is just fine and I personally don't have a problem at all with dark stories. There has to be a light at the end of the tunnel, however, or else everything will feel like it was for naught. My issue with the ME3 ending, aside from the already discussed lapses in logic, was the anti-climactic and bleak feel that it presented. Homeworlds were destroyed, billions were killed including many of our old friends (Legion, Mordin, Anderson). Even if Shepard reunited and retired happily with his LI, there would still be that sense of bitterness from all the losses throughout the game.

Yes, war is hell and often has tragic endings. That said, I play games to escape reality, not indulge in it. I want to achieve the impossible, to beat all odds. That's the point of escapism, and that's why people want the option to be victorious and do what was thought to be impossible. As it stands with ME3, there is very little catharsis at the end, which I think is why many were so displeased with the ending. The EC helped a bit with that, but in the case of high-EMS destroy, still leaves something to be desired.

Modifié par PainCakesx, 21 janvier 2013 - 12:29 .

[78stonewobble]

magnetite wrote...

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

If someone makes a mistake, they're going to pay for it. Shepard does not get rewarded for bad decisions.

Kind of like a kid who misbehaves and gets locked in their room to think about their bad actions.

2. The evil that men do lives after them. You have no playable consequences for your big epic choice. The choice is false.

So just out of curiousity, if they said this game had roughly 1000 different variables and choices going into the third game, how many endings were people honestly expecting?

Some of your decisions were actually wrapped up in the second game (eg. Toombs from the first game).

This was the resolution of your major choice in Mass Effect 1 to save the council. Doesn't affect Mass Effect 3's ending.

I think some may have misundersood how the series works though. Or what is realistic to ask from a developer (eg. a thousand different endings based on each individual variation of choice is a bit much).

I expected the endings to cover the full spectrum of emotions. Happy, bittersweet, sad and loose. Not necessarily just x number of endings.

We got a loose ending after the EC of a sort and the 3 bittersweet endings.

I see it a s a missed opportunity.

But let me ask this instead.

Were the endings we got of a good enough quality to leave you both non-confused, satisfied, smiling and crying as a proper bittersweet ending should?

PS: I make a distinction between pondering the implications of an ending and being confused about what it means.

[Faust1979]

78stonewobble wrote...

magnetite wrote...

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

If someone makes a mistake, they're going to pay for it. Shepard does not get rewarded for bad decisions.

Kind of like a kid who misbehaves and gets locked in their room to think about their bad actions.

2. The evil that men do lives after them. You have no playable consequences for your big epic choice. The choice is false.

So just out of curiousity, if they said this game had roughly 1000 different variables and choices going into the third game, how many endings were people honestly expecting?

Some of your decisions were actually wrapped up in the second game (eg. Toombs from the first game).

This was the resolution of your major choice in Mass Effect 1 to save the council. Doesn't affect Mass Effect 3's ending.

I think some may have misundersood how the series works though. Or what is realistic to ask from a developer (eg. a thousand different endings based on each individual variation of choice is a bit much).

I expected the endings to cover the full spectrum of emotions. Happy, bittersweet, sad and loose. Not necessarily just x number of endings.

We got a loose ending after the EC of a sort and the 3 bittersweet endings.

I see it a s a missed opportunity.

But let me ask this instead.

Were the endings we got of a good enough quality to leave you both non-confused, satisfied, smiling and crying as a proper bittersweet ending should?

PS: I make a distinction between pondering the implications of an ending and being confused about what it means.

I've only played it with the EC nad was pretty happy with it I wasn't confused I destroyed the reapers, saved the galaxy people, survived, many died I was happy but I expected it to be a dark brutal story I remember in an old interview they talked about how dark it was going to be so I expected it. This is what I wanted from the game. I wanted them to push the boundries of war I feel the story and how it played out is as it should of been.

[kyban]

If i had just one wish OP, it would be to get our happy ending. Or if i won the lottery I'd offer it to Bioware so they could get the budget needed to make it.

Totally serious too, happiness > money. Awesome Mass Effect 3 ending > winning the lottery. IMO of course.

If we ever got our post ending DLC, or alternate ending DLC, I'd dance in the street and party for days.

[78stonewobble]

Faust1979 wrote...

I've only played it with the EC nad was pretty happy with it I wasn't confused I destroyed the reapers, saved the galaxy people, survived, many died I was happy but I expected it to be a dark brutal story I remember in an old interview they talked about how dark it was going to be so I expected it. This is what I wanted from the game. I wanted them to push the boundries of war I feel the story and how it played out is as it should of been.

Ah... Hmm in that case it seems to me you weren't exactly satisfied with the bittersweet of the endings either.

A few pages back I did a few examples of what I had in my mind for spread of the endings. The ending ideas probably aren't that good but the point was the emotional range.

It does have the possibility for a "happy" ending but it goes to some pretty dark areas as well. Atleast imho much darker than we got.

Bordering on mostly tragedy.

[Galifreya]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

1. If there was a perfect happy ending, everybody would go out of their way to get it. They'd ignore everything else and go for that alone.

2. The theme of Mass Effect is actions and consequences. Having a perfect happy ending negates that.

Wrong. People replay the entire series to construct -exactly- how they want "this playthrough" to go. Just because one ending could've been potentially a typical happy ending doesn't mean that's what everyone would choose every time.

What we want and have always wanted are OPTIONS. A happy ending OPTION would be nice.