1258 réponses à ce sujet

[Galbrant]

I think everyone merits one happy ending, Like in Mass Effect 2 if you prepared and put the characters in the right roles, you're rewarded with the best possible out come in the suicide mission and that ending had no sacrifice.. If you only played ME3 and rush through the main story you only deserve the games garbage endings. Everyone else who played through three games including DLC done as many of the side quests as they can deserves a happy ending. The sacrifices were made through the game already especially if you're renegade.

The game if you're not careful there are sacrifices to be had like the Vimire Survivor being killed by your hands or your squaddie to save the Council, or Grunt when you decide to save the Rachni Queen but never did his loyalty mission. Or your finger is too slow for the Paragon Interrupt to save Samara... or if it was intentional just to snuff out her daughter just to make sure she doesn't become a monster. The sacrifices are already there.... let the ending just stop the player have to make anymore sacrifices.

Modifié par Galbrant, 23 janvier 2013 - 10:03 .

[78stonewobble]

txgoldrush wrote...

Why can't ME3 have a happy ending?

Because Bioware doesn't want to appeal to the ignorants that ignore the narrative.

Paragon Shepard...PARAGON Shepard, in the very beginning, in between the boy in the vent scene and the ledge scene in the opening mission tells Admiral Anderson "its hard enough fighting a war, but is worse knowing how hard you try, you can't save them all"

But nope, lets ignore it so we can get our happy ending.

Shepard tells James that being N7 is not about getting everyone back alive, both Paragon and Renegade.

Nope, we want our happy ending.

Garrus talks about the ruthless calculus of war, Javik talks about sacrificing his crew and the pain it brought, Tali talks about how commanders have to mourn losses instead of people, EDI feels human we she realizes she is willing to sacrifice herself for her friends.

But we don't want sacrifice in the ending, we don't want cost, because we are ignorant and we ignore what the damn narrative has hammered over and over the entire game.

Face it, the THEME of Mass Effect 3 is victory through sacrifice, as described by Casey Hudson. Its about being willing to not only sacrifice yourself, but sacrifice others to achieve victory. The ending is CONSISTANT with this theme.

And quite mediocrily made.

Where is the loss and sacrifice that matters the most emotionally to the player? 

Eg. your love interest and squadmates. When do you get forced to make those sacrifices?

You don't. The sacrifice is quite "virtual" or distanced when the choices are brought up. Cool calculus as you say of the pros and cons of each end choice.

Indeed, if you make it to the catalyst, you can pretty much no longer loose. It's all wins from here unless you offcourse nowadays deliberately refuse to win. 



If all 3 endings and 2x permutations there off have to be SO consistent with the theme that they, from atleast an emotional perspective, could have been replaced with one ending of victory through sacrifice. Why have the choices at all? 



It's quite fine to want a bittersweet ending, but if it's the only one "allowed", then you should have been against the game design of allowing multiple endings.

I'd also think that you would also want a bittersweet ending of such a quality that it left you both happy and sad. Literally smiling and crying at the same time. That is the quality we should hope for atleast in my oppinion.

Modifié par 78stonewobble, 23 janvier 2013 - 10:36 .

[InvincibleHero]

john_sheparrd wrote...

wtf are you talking about it's a rpg it doesn't has to be a dark ending that's what rpg is all about
you can choose depending on your choices throughout the game whether the ending will be a happy or a darker ending (like in me 2, dragon age origins ..)
and I want a happy ending (with geth and edi and Shepard alive) because I did everything I could
collected every ****ing war asset so don't tell me that I can't because the "theme" says so

DA:O has happy endings because BW wanted to provide them. That was their vision for the story. It ends happy no matter what you choose for most of the people in it.

Your choices in the game do not have to have any effect on the ending. Seriously, why do people always champion that idea? Does looting a treasure box in a peasant's house relate to the ending? Nope. That is a  choice. So is choosing who your party is and that does not change endings either. Where is this written guarantee if you play well that you have to get a happy ending? I want to see it.

The story is moved along with missions or quests or whatever you call them. It is gameplay dissemination of story. The end is how the story terminates. It can be anything the creator chooses. Sometimes there is no happy ending.

[78stonewobble]

InvincibleHero wrote...
DA:O has happy endings because BW wanted to provide them. That was their vision for the story. It ends happy no matter what you choose for most of the people in it.

Your choices in the game do not have to have any effect on the ending. Seriously, why do people always champion that idea? Does looting a treasure box in a peasant's house relate to the ending? Nope. That is a  choice. So is choosing who your party is and that does not change endings either. Where is this written guarantee if you play well that you have to get a happy ending? I want to see it.

The story is moved along with missions or quests or whatever you call them. It is gameplay dissemination of story. The end is how the story terminates. It can be anything the creator chooses. Sometimes there is no happy ending.

Pertaining to the last few sentences.

Which would be ok, if there were good solid storyline reasons for it and there isn't that imho.

If the story had a homicidal maniac you don't need logical explanations to explain his reasons for killing or the death of the hero. The pointlessness is it's own point.

Here the reasons for the "no happy ending" are arbitrary and poorly thought out. Making the end as pointless as above though it was clearly trying to make a different point... Acceptable cost? of acceptable victory? (very boiled down).

[Thore2k10]

InvincibleHero wrote...

john_sheparrd wrote...

wtf are you talking about it's a rpg it doesn't has to be a dark ending that's what rpg is all about
you can choose depending on your choices throughout the game whether the ending will be a happy or a darker ending (like in me 2, dragon age origins ..)
and I want a happy ending (with geth and edi and Shepard alive) because I did everything I could
collected every ****ing war asset so don't tell me that I can't because the "theme" says so

DA:O has happy endings because BW wanted to provide them. That was their vision for the story. It ends happy no matter what you choose for most of the people in it.

Your choices in the game do not have to have any effect on the ending. Seriously, why do people always champion that idea? Does looting a treasure box in a peasant's house relate to the ending? Nope. That is a  choice. So is choosing who your party is and that does not change endings either. Where is this written guarantee if you play well that you have to get a happy ending? I want to see it.

The story is moved along with missions or quests or whatever you call them. It is gameplay dissemination of story. The end is how the story terminates. It can be anything the creator chooses. Sometimes there is no happy ending.

maybe, but it was advertised as if!
there should have been 16 "vastly different endings", not 3 bitter endings and 1 very bitter ending...

dont get me wrong im not asking for 16 vastly different endings, but a little bit of variety couldnt hurt IMHO...

[Necrotya]

Sorry, but when you have a "happy" ending, you have the BEST ending. That means any worse ending and its due to gameplay failures, not legit story choices. Getting crewmates in ME2 killed is not a consquence from story as it is gameplay.

This isn't a democracy, you gotta have endings that fit with the tone of the story. A full on happy ending doesn't go with ME3.

I can understand your point ...now......all other than "best endings" wouldn't be due to gameplay failures ....IMO, they would be due to  gameplay choices, if you know what I mean. There should be a difference.

A full happy ending doesn't go with ME3....I didn't say or mean that. I said, you already have billions of ppl dead, you loose friends, worlds destroyed, etc....that's not happy now is it?. Anyway, I think difference between my and your view is in Shepards survival ( or maybe only reunion, since we do have breath scene already ) and perception of what  happy ending is. I can't say you're wrong, I hope you can see my point too.
+ In ME2 the THEME in my opinion was pretty dark as well - abductions, suicide mission, reapers on our doorstep - now, if you did everything right Shep survives, so do all squad mates. That was my analogy.

Modifié par Necrotya, 23 janvier 2013 - 01:26 .

[vallore]

AlanC9 wrote...

iakus wrote...
One gasp from a faceless torso (where the chest barely moves) after commiting genocide=Watching Shepard disintigrate on screen?

Yeah, total equivalencey there 

I don't think I'll ever understand why some folks seem unable to grasp the meaning of that clip.

The meaning of that clip is not difficult to grasp, especially in context:

You can die very explicitly in blue and green, clearly so in red and in no-colour, and you get a few seconds of ambiguity in the fifth option. It seems to me that it was clear that the writers prefer Shepard dead. The breath scene is not there because it is a clear way of showing Shepard lives, but rather because it isn’t.

It is like the “ the glass is half full vs half empty,” except that the writers made sure only to drop two drops of sweet in the empty glass. If you are very optimist you will see a “two drops full” glass, where others just see an empty glass with a couple of drops at the bottom.

[Necrotya]

2x post ...delete please

Modifié par Necrotya, 23 janvier 2013 - 01:25 .

[AB Souldier]

Galbrant wrote...

I think everyone merits one happy ending, Like in Mass Effect 2 if you prepared and put the characters in the right roles, you're rewarded with the best possible out come in the suicide mission and that ending had no sacrifice.. If you only played ME3 and rush through the main story you only deserve the games garbage endings. Everyone else who played through three games including DLC done as many of the side quests as they can deserves a happy ending. The sacrifices were made through the game already especially if you're renegade.

The game if you're not careful there are sacrifices to be had like the Vimire Survivor being killed by your hands or your squaddie to save the Council, or Grunt when you decide to save the Rachni Queen but never did his loyalty mission. Or your finger is too slow for the Paragon Interrupt to save Samara... or if it was intentional just to snuff out her daughter just to make sure she doesn't become a monster. The sacrifices are already there.... let the ending just stop the player have to make anymore sacrifices.

If i put all this time into 3 games and its dlcs and worked hard to get the best possible outcome in all games, i think i deserve a happy ending.

[AB Souldier]

Snake91 wrote...

DAMMIT WHY YOU ASK MEMBERS WHY NOT HAVE HAPPY ENDING GO ASK BIOWARE WHY THEY NOT WANT TO GIVE YOU HAPPY ENDING :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

Because one person can't get it alone. If we want a happy ending, we will have to unite all of MEs fan base. As one, i am weak, but as a million and growing, we are strong. It's time to unite the fans!

(See what i did there?) 

[DRACO1130]

Shep isnt a happy ending kind of character.
No matter which background you selected for him, he is always born of blood sweat and tears not hugs kisses and roses. Through out the entire trilogy of games - NOTHING has ended well for him personally. Its a series of bad choices and consequences.
to have a 'happy ending' as you put it woudl be a betrayal of all that has gone before, not to mention the BILLIONS of dead from the reapers. No matter which ending you choose, they stay dead - hard to have a happy ending drowning in corpses.

[AB Souldier]

Snake91 wrote...

ajsrise wrote...

Snake91 wrote...

DAMMIT WHY YOU ASK MEMBERS WHY NOT HAVE HAPPY ENDING GO ASK BIOWARE WHY THEY NOT WANT TO GIVE YOU HAPPY ENDING :devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil::devil:

Because one person can't get it alone. If we want a happy ending, we will have to unite all of MEs fan base. As one, i am weak, but as a million and growing, we are strong. It's time to unite the fans!

(See what i did there?) 

I am agrre with you that all have to be one but you see that there some blind fools who are happy with the ending now

*choses paragon* They are just scared of the unknown, they will realize it soon enough.

DRACO1130 wrote...

Shep isnt a happy ending kind of character.
No matter which background you selected for him, he is always born of blood sweat and tears not hugs kisses and roses. Through out the entire trilogy of games - NOTHING has ended well for him personally. Its a series of bad choices and consequences. 
to have a 'happy ending' as you put it woudl be a betrayal of all that has gone before, not to mention the BILLIONS of dead from the reapers. No matter which ending you choose, they stay dead - hard to have a happy ending drowning in corpses.

It's not about Shepard, it is about the galaxy. And saying that "he is always born of blood sweat and tears not hugs kisses and roses" is all the more reason to have a happy ending because he worked hard, through sweat, blood and tears, to achieve his goal. By your logic, hard work or being born through tough times should never end with happiness.

Modifié par ajsrise, 23 janvier 2013 - 04:08 .

[Mr.House]

txgoldrush wrote...

Why can't ME3 have a happy ending?

Because Bioware doesn't want to appeal to the ignorants that ignore the narrative.

Paragon Shepard...PARAGON Shepard, in the very beginning, in between the boy in the vent scene and the ledge scene in the opening mission tells Admiral Anderson "its hard enough fighting a war, but is worse knowing how hard you try, you can't save them all"

But nope, lets ignore it so we can get our happy ending.

Shepard tells James that being N7 is not about getting everyone back alive, both Paragon and Renegade.

Nope, we want our happy ending.

Garrus talks about the ruthless calculus of war, Javik talks about sacrificing his crew and the pain it brought, Tali talks about how commanders have to mourn losses instead of people, EDI feels human we she realizes she is willing to sacrifice herself for her friends.

But we don't want sacrifice in the ending, we don't want cost, because we are ignorant and we ignore what the damn narrative has hammered over and over the entire game.

Face it, the THEME of Mass Effect 3 is victory through sacrifice, as described by Casey Hudson. Its about being willing to not only sacrifice yourself, but sacrifice others to achieve victory. The ending is CONSISTANT with this theme.

I have one word for you : DAO

It  was darker then ME3, had darker themes and sacerfice was a very important as you made several of them in the game and you where still able to have a happy ending depeding on your choices. So instead of being rude to people and acting all mighty do your research on the subject.

[xAmilli0n]

Mr.House wrote...

I have one word for you : DAO

It  was darker then ME3, had darker themes and sacerfice was a very important as you made several of them in the game and you where still able to have a happy ending depeding on your choices. So instead of being rude to people and acting all mighty do your research on the subject.

I really don't want to get dragged into this argument, but I feel compelled to comment.  I disagree.  ME3 can indeed be much darker than DA:O depending on how you imported.  It can either be a story of hope and unity, or of loss, sacrafice, fighting against inevitability.

I would also disagree on DA:O having a purely happy ending.  While it results in a mostly positive outcome, the DR can definitely be seen as a negative.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mr.House]

xAmilli0n wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

I have one word for you : DAO

It  was darker then ME3, had darker themes and sacerfice was a very important as you made several of them in the game and you where still able to have a happy ending depeding on your choices. So instead of being rude to people and acting all mighty do your research on the subject.

I really don't want to get dragged into this argument, but I feel compelled to comment.  I disagree.  ME3 can indeed be much darker than DA:O depending on how you imported.  It can either be a story of hope and unity, or of loss, sacrafice, fighting against inevitability.

I would also disagree on DA:O having a purely happy ending.  While it results in a mostly positive outcome, the DR can definitely be seen as a negative.

Just my 2 cents.

It can also be postive, all depends on your view of Morrigan. The Warden is still alive, along with their Warden companion and is now a hero and leading the Wardens in Ferelden.

Also DAO can start with 99% of your whole familly being killed in front of you by a friend and not knowing what happen to oyur brother. If you have to do a bad import to make ME3 dark and depressing then it's not really that dark and depressing when the base of DAO is dark. No matter your origin someething really bad happens, you then have Ostagar, do I really have to detail this?

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

xAmilli0n wrote...
I really don't want to get dragged into this argument, but I feel compelled to comment.  I disagree.  ME3 can indeed be much darker than DA:O depending on how you imported.  It can either be a story of hope and unity, or of loss, sacrafice, fighting against inevitability.

I would also disagree on DA:O having a purely happy ending.  While it results in a mostly positive outcome, the DR can definitely be seen as a negative.

Just my 2 cents.

And that is another flaw of the ending. It only supports the latter, not the former.

[xAmilli0n]

@ Mr. House. As I mentioned, I really have no interest arguing about happy endings and what game is darker. I gave you my opinion, which clearly you disagree with. That's fine.

The only thing I'll add is that no one can say a darker ME3 is the result of a bad play through import. You can craft your story as you like or makes sense for your RP, just as you can in DA:O.

[Iakus]

Lizardviking wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...
I really don't want to get dragged into this argument, but I feel compelled to comment.  I disagree.  ME3 can indeed be much darker than DA:O depending on how you imported.  It can either be a story of hope and unity, or of loss, sacrafice, fighting against inevitability.

I would also disagree on DA:O having a purely happy ending.  While it results in a mostly positive outcome, the DR can definitely be seen as a negative.

Just my 2 cents.

And that is another flaw of the ending. It only supports the latter, not the former.

Truth

[txgoldrush]

Mr.House wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Why can't ME3 have a happy ending?

Because Bioware doesn't want to appeal to the ignorants that ignore the narrative.

Paragon Shepard...PARAGON Shepard, in the very beginning, in between the boy in the vent scene and the ledge scene in the opening mission tells Admiral Anderson "its hard enough fighting a war, but is worse knowing how hard you try, you can't save them all"

But nope, lets ignore it so we can get our happy ending.

Shepard tells James that being N7 is not about getting everyone back alive, both Paragon and Renegade.

Nope, we want our happy ending.

Garrus talks about the ruthless calculus of war, Javik talks about sacrificing his crew and the pain it brought, Tali talks about how commanders have to mourn losses instead of people, EDI feels human we she realizes she is willing to sacrifice herself for her friends.

But we don't want sacrifice in the ending, we don't want cost, because we are ignorant and we ignore what the damn narrative has hammered over and over the entire game.

Face it, the THEME of Mass Effect 3 is victory through sacrifice, as described by Casey Hudson. Its about being willing to not only sacrifice yourself, but sacrifice others to achieve victory. The ending is CONSISTANT with this theme.

I have one word for you : DAO

It  was darker then ME3, had darker themes and sacerfice was a very important as you made several of them in the game and you where still able to have a happy ending depeding on your choices. So instead of being rude to people and acting all mighty do your research on the subject.

Wrong

DAO is not dark, it is typical high fantasy but with a dark color palette and blood effects thrown in. Not only is ME3 far darker, with far more sorrow and loss, but DAO isn't even as dark as DA2 or even Baldur's Gate II. Hell, Jade Empire in some areas is darker than DAO.

And ME3 has far more sacrifices, from your character and others. Hell, almost every mission in ME3 has a sacrifice in one form or another.

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

DAO is not dark.

Stopped reading

[Thore2k10]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

DAO is not dark.

Stopped reading

DAO was kind of a masterpiece, because it could be anything that you wanted it to be.
Though it had its dark moments, there was always something to brighten everything up again (or not, if you preferred).

At least thats how i remember it, its been a while since i played it...

[AB Souldier]

txgoldrush wrote...

Why can't ME3 have a happy ending?

Because Bioware doesn't want to appeal to the ignorants that ignore the narrative.

Paragon Shepard...PARAGON Shepard, in the very beginning, in between the boy in the vent scene and the ledge scene in the opening mission tells Admiral Anderson "its hard enough fighting a war, but is worse knowing how hard you try, you can't save them all"

But nope, lets ignore it so we can get our happy ending.

Shepard tells James that being N7 is not about getting everyone back alive, both Paragon and Renegade.

Nope, we want our happy ending.

Garrus talks about the ruthless calculus of war, Javik talks about sacrificing his crew and the pain it brought, Tali talks about how commanders have to mourn losses instead of people, EDI feels human we she realizes she is willing to sacrifice herself for her friends.

But we don't want sacrifice in the ending, we don't want cost, because we are ignorant and we ignore what the damn narrative has hammered over and over the entire game.

Face it, the THEME of Mass Effect 3 is victory through sacrifice, as described by Casey Hudson. Its about being willing to not only sacrifice yourself, but sacrifice others to achieve victory. The ending is CONSISTANT with this theme.

So let me get this straight, because Shepard says " you can't save them all," that means screw eveyone, forget about making peace between the geth and the quarians (let alone the whole galaxy), forget the friends you made along the way and forget the people you lost. Just kill the reapers. 

You are forgeting that people ARE dying, people are LOSING their friends and family because of the war. All the **** you are talking about is happening. People are being sacrificed, but because you don't know their names they don't count?

Modifié par ajsrise, 23 janvier 2013 - 08:27 .