1258 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

I ****ing love steak.

Where did that moronic meme come from and how can I banish it back to whatvever Hellmouth universe it came from?

[MegaSovereign]

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I ****ing love steak.

Where did that moronic meme come from and how can I banish it back to whatvever Hellmouth universe it came from?

Dang calm down. It's from the Gamer Poop videos.

[Iakus]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

Maybe I am just a pessimist, but I went into ME3 expecting Shepard to sacrifice him/herself.

Shaira (Yes, the Consort.  The green Asari is named Shiala) tells you that all these things have shaped who you are but they are not who you will become.  This is a common literary precursor to a Messiannic figure

It is entirely possible that I read more into those situations than others.  At the very least, Garrus is not altogether optomistic about our chances every time you talk to him; he's a realist.

But, if you didn't get the message from the final dream sequence (when Shepard burns with the kid), you REALLY are not paying attention to the sledgehammer the writers are using to say that Shepard's days are numbered.

And here I expected Shepard to live, and to be able to keep a shred of honor intact too.

because, you know, you can in the first two games.

And we've been told throughout the trilogy that these are our Shepards, and our choices guide the progression of the game, and there is no canon outcome.

How silly of me to believe them.

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

iakus wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

I ****ing love steak.

Where did that moronic meme come from and how can I banish it back to whatvever Hellmouth universe it came from?

Dang calm down. It's from the Gamer Poop videos.

Sorry.  I just been seeing that everywhere, and I've started mentally deducting about 50 IQ points from people who use it.  Just suprised you were one of them..

[BleedingUranium]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

But, if you didn't get the message from the final dream sequence (when Shepard burns with the kid), you REALLY are not paying attention to the sledgehammer the writers are using to say that Shepard's days are numbered.

That's not "Shepard will die", that's "Don't trust the kid, or it will be your death/downfall".

Shepard embraces the kid, and burns as a result.

[CronoDragoon]

NeroonWilliams wrote...
But, if you didn't get the message from the final dream sequence (when Shepard burns with the kid), you REALLY are not paying attention to the sledgehammer the writers are using to say that Shepard's days are numbered.

That's not really the message there. The kid is running from danger into Shepard's arms, only for both of them to burn up. It symbolizes his relationship with the galaxy insofar as he believes he's saving them, when in fact he might be just leading them to faster destruction.

You'll find few who believe your interpretation of that final dream, but to each their own.

[chemiclord]

Because, ya know... it's not like this question hasn't already been asked roughly ten thousand times.

[NeroonWilliams]

sharkboy421 wrote...

NeroonWilliams wrote...

Problem with that reasoning, ajsrise, is that just its existence would make it the default ending (not the easiest, but the default). 

I'm still not sure I agree.  Going to back to the Suicide Mission in ME2, in the best ending, everyone lives.  And its really not all that hard to get.  But I know a lot of people who, depending on how they decided to play a particular Shepard, did not achieve that "best" ending.  They knew how to get it if they wanted, but they chose to play that particular Shepard in a way that got several characters killed.  I believe a similar situation would again in ME3 with "tiered" endings.

Also, in regards to your previous response to my statement, you mentioned that we did get tiered endings "from a certain point of view."  I kind of see that (I think), but I whole-heartedly disagree.  The issue for me is not the outcome of each choice but the underlying premise of each choice.  I find the entire ending premise to be thematically and narratively inconsistent with the rest of triolgy.  I do not wish to pick a fight or push my views onto, I just realize that my original statement was a little vague and I wanted to clarify where I was coming from.

In reference to the SM, most players sought out the ending that they wanted.  For most players that orchestrated their ending, their preferred ending was everyone lives.  I'm sure those people were offended by the fact that they couldn't spare Mordin on Tuchanka, or save Thane on the Citadel.  These players would most assurredly seek out the "happy" ending if it existed.  How many of them reloaded an earlier save in order to spare Wrex in ME1?

I'm not a fighter myself, but I've found that an awful lot of posters on BSN are not "thinkers".  By that, I mean that they believe what they believe, but they don't know why.  My goal when I post is usually to challenge these "non-thinkers"
to think about WHY they believe what they do.  Your responses have shown you to NOT be one of them.

I actually don't think that the endings represent the be-all-end-all of perfection, but I LOVE the thought that must go into the choices if the player is actually thinking in character.  For the record my decisions included: 1 Synthesis, 3 Control (2 Paragon, 1 Renegade), 4 Destroy, and 1 Refuse.  IMHO a pure happy ending with only the end of the Reapers and no other collateral damage would be as much "space magic" (I hate that "argument") as Synthesis.

[NeroonWilliams]

Let the flames on THAT response begin.

[AB Souldier]

iakus wrote...

NeroonWilliams wrote...

Maybe I am just a pessimist, but I went into ME3 expecting Shepard to sacrifice him/herself.

Shaira (Yes, the Consort.  The green Asari is named Shiala) tells you that all these things have shaped who you are but they are not who you will become.  This is a common literary precursor to a Messiannic figure

It is entirely possible that I read more into those situations than others.  At the very least, Garrus is not altogether optomistic about our chances every time you talk to him; he's a realist.

But, if you didn't get the message from the final dream sequence (when Shepard burns with the kid), you REALLY are not paying attention to the sledgehammer the writers are using to say that Shepard's days are numbered.

And here I expected Shepard to live, and to be able to keep a shred of honor intact too.

because, you know, you can in the first two games.

And we've been told throughout the trilogy that these are our Shepards, and our choices guide the progression of the game, and there is no canon outcome.

How silly of me to believe them.

Like ME2 basically. I wish our choices had more of an effect in ME3 as well. I know that my choice would of (should of) got me the happy ending i want (That we deserve)

Modifié par ajsrise, 19 janvier 2013 - 06:49 .

[BleedingUranium]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

In reference to the SM, most players sought out the ending that they wanted.  For most players that orchestrated their ending, their preferred ending was everyone lives.  I'm sure those people were offended by the fact that they couldn't spare Mordin on Tuchanka, or save Thane on the Citadel.  These players would most assurredly seek out the "happy" ending if it existed.  How many of them reloaded an earlier save in order to spare Wrex in ME1?

I'm not a fighter myself, but I've found that an awful lot of posters on BSN are not "thinkers".  By that, I mean that they believe what they believe, but they don't know why.  My goal when I post is usually to challenge these "non-thinkers"
to think about WHY they believe what they do.  Your responses have shown you to NOT be one of them.

I actually don't think that the endings represent the be-all-end-all of perfection, but I LOVE the thought that must go into the choices if the player is actually thinking in character.  For the record my decisions included: 1 Synthesis, 3 Control (2 Paragon, 1 Renegade), 4 Destroy, and 1 Refuse.  IMHO a pure happy ending with only the end of the Reapers and no other collateral damage would be as much "space magic" (I hate that "argument") as Synthesis.

Well said! The story already showed you though Mordin, Thane, and Legion that victory will come at a cost. And that's aside from the mountains of dialogue telling you this.

[BleedingUranium]

iakus wrote...

And here I expected Shepard to live, and to be able to keep a shred of honor intact too.

Honour? Javik would like a word with you.

[chemiclord]

Nonetheless, the answer to the OP's question is pretty simple.

Bioware didn't want it to. Their story. Their rules.

[CronoDragoon]

chemiclord wrote...

Nonetheless, the answer to the OP's question is pretty simple.

Bioware didn't want it to. Their story. Their rules.

 Yeah, they said they wanted the ending to be bittersweet, so they crafted the content accordingly.

They probably misjudged what the playerbase would see as bittersweet with the OEs, but I think the EC has lightened the tone considerably.

[NeroonWilliams]

CronoDragoon wrote...

NeroonWilliams wrote...
But, if you didn't get the message from the final dream sequence (when Shepard burns with the kid), you REALLY are not paying attention to the sledgehammer the writers are using to say that Shepard's days are numbered.

That's not really the message there. The kid is running from danger into Shepard's arms, only for both of them to burn up. It symbolizes his relationship with the galaxy insofar as he believes he's saving them, when in fact he might be just leading them to faster destruction.

You'll find few who believe your interpretation of that final dream, but to each their own.

BleedingUranium wrote...

That's not "Shepard will die", that's "Don't trust the kid, or it will be your death/downfall".

Shepard embraces the kid, and burns as a result.

I can understand CronoDragoon's interpretation of that dream sequence (and while I do not choose to interpret that way, I fully respect it), but BleedingUranium, that is a statement that can only come from someone who has already seen the ending ( IT metagaming) rather than the interpretation of someone who has just experienced that dream for the first time.

[chemiclord]

Thing is... I don't mean that to be dismissive.

That's really what it boils down to. If a creator wants (or doesn't want) to do something, it's entirely their call. They CAN listen to feedback, and act accordingly... they can also reject that feedback. That's their right as the creator.

You don't have to support that creator if you don't like the stories they are telling. That's the fans' power.

[CronoDragoon]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

I can understand CronoDragoon's interpretation of that dream sequence (and while I do not choose to interpret that way, I fully respect it), but BleedingUranium, that is a statement that can only come from someone who has already seen the ending ( IT metagaming) rather than the interpretation of someone who has just experienced that dream for the first time.

In a way we are actually agreeing, since "leading the galaxy to faster destruction" includes Shepard. However, since I see it as a dream instead of a vision, I see it less as a prophecy by the writers of Shepard's death and more a representation of his internal conflict and uncertainty.

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

They probably misjudged what the playerbase would see as bittersweet with the OEs

Putting it reaallly mildly...

, but I think the EC has lightened the tone considerably.

Yes.  The bag of dog poop is no longer on fire, for what that's worth 

[BleedingUranium]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

That's not "Shepard will die", that's "Don't trust the kid, or it will be your death/downfall".

Shepard embraces the kid, and burns as a result.

BleedingUranium, that is a statement that can only come from someone who has already seen the ending ( IT metagaming) rather than the interpretation of someone who has just experienced that dream for the first time.

But that's what I thought on my first, and spoiler free, playthrough. Kid is creepy. Shepard embraces kid. Shepard burns.

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...
Yes.  The bag of dog poop is no longer on fire, for what that's worth 

It's worth quite a bit. Ever had to smell a flaming paper bag of dog poop?

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 19 janvier 2013 - 07:01 .

[NeroonWilliams]

chemiclord wrote...

Thing is... I don't mean that to be dismissive.

That's really what it boils down to. If a creator wants (or doesn't want) to do something, it's entirely their call. They CAN listen to feedback, and act accordingly... they can also reject that feedback. That's their right as the creator.

You don't have to support that creator if you don't like the stories they are telling. That's the fans' power.

That really is the long and short of it.  The writers WANTED a bittersweet (at best) ending and even the mere existence of a "happy" ending would deny that "reality".

Modifié par NeroonWilliams, 19 janvier 2013 - 07:04 .

[CronoDragoon]

In point of fact the EC is more happy than I thought possible after the OEs. I did NOT think they would retcon the relays being destroyed, and was giddy when I found out they did. I personally would have preferred Shepard dying in Destroy instead of the geth/EDI if they wanted to balance the bittersweetness, but I never asked for a perfect ending.

[Iakus]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

That really is the long and short of it.  The writers WANTED a bittersweet (at best) ending and even the mere existence of a "happy" ending would deny that "reality".

Then they never should have called the players "architects" of the story.

They never should have told us our choices mattered

They never should have called them "our" Shepards.

If they wanted a canon, they.shouldn't give us choices then railroad the result they want

And I totally deny that the existence of a "happy ending" denies as bittersweet ending.  If you really do prefer bittersweet, the existence of a happy ending shouldn't matter to you.  Lookat DAO.  Everyone has their own preferred ending outcome and details.

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...
Yes.  The bag of dog poop is no longer on fire, for what that's worth 

It's worth quite a bit. Ever had to smell a flaming paper bag of dog poop?

It's still a bag of dog poop, with all that entails.

[Bill Casey]

MEHEM is a bittersweet ending...
FVT endings are disturbing...