1258 réponses à ce sujet

[XqctaX]

Why can't Mass Effect 3 have a happy ending?


It's simple ME3 CAN have a happy ending,
the devs simply dont want to give you one.

[MaxGwenesef]

Exactly. Still it is fully possible to add one.

[Obadiah]

I can tell you what would have made Destroy easier for me to deal with (at least in the original ending) - if the "destroy synthetics" primary function was unearthed earlier and EDI and the Geth could give their opinion on it.

Modifié par Obadiah, 12 février 2013 - 01:10 .

[Dr_Extrem]

Obadiah wrote...

I can tell you what would have made Destroy easier for me to deal with (at least in the original ending) - if the "destroy synthetics" primary function was unearthed earlier and EDI and the Geth could give their opinion on it.

they already gave their opinion on the matter - at least edi made a clear statement.

she rejects the reapers as impulsive beings of destruction. in addition, she can alter her program to lever out her self preservation routines, if the crew would be endangered by such actions. she would die to protect her friends from danger.

the geth also reject the reapers - they are prety clear about that matter.

[Codename_Code]

its like biowares objective is to reward people that didn't pay attention to the whole lore, like obadiah, who missed the edi and geth statements about the reapers. and by this, punishing the people that got into the lore.

[D1ck1e]

Because F*** You, that's why.

That's what I got from it anyway.

[CronoDragoon]

Mcfly616 wrote...

People still bitter over the Geth and EDI perishing? Still trying to say that Bioware made it that way so it would "balance out the endings"?


Lol


The Geth and EDI being destroyed in "Destroy" makes perfect sense, regardless of how you feel about it.

I completely disagree, and it's because the Crucible has no rules. The Crucible has no boundaries of behavior, no specific mode of operation. It has a mode of distribution through the Citadel and relays, but its own nature is unlimited. The energy that it disperses can literally be used for anything the writers want it to be used, which is how you can get 3 different energy waves that do completely different things.

The Crucible has no rules because the writers wanted to be able to mold the endings as they saw fit, and yes to balance them. There is no explicit reason why the Crucible cannot target only Reapers in Destroy, especially since we know that it can in Control.

This isn't a problem just with Destroy. Why does Synthesis require Shepard's death? To balance the endings. Because the Crucible follows no explicit logic, we have to turn to implicit logic to make any sense of its workings. Even then, the reasons are dubious. If Destroy targets all Reaper code, then why not just say it targets all Reaper code? Why make the point that ALL synthetics, regardless of Reaper code, will be targeted?

So no, I disagree. It doesn't make sense that Destroy targets all synthetics, because we are given no premises for the Crucible through which we can analyze sense. The Crucible literally works as the writers want it to work. And they wanted it to destroy all synthetics.

[Cobretti ftw]

i agree with CronoDragoon

[MrFob]

Dr_Extrem wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

I can tell you what would have made Destroy easier for me to deal with (at least in the original ending) - if the "destroy synthetics" primary function was unearthed earlier and EDI and the Geth could give their opinion on it.

they already gave their opinion on the matter - at least edi made a clear statement.

she rejects the reapers as impulsive beings of destruction. in addition, she can alter her program to lever out her self preservation routines, if the crew would be endangered by such actions. she would die to protect her friends from danger.

the geth also reject the reapers - they are prety clear about that matter.

True but the situation is a bit more complicated that either destruction of the synthetics or rule of the reapers. You do have other options. In that sense, I do agree with Obadiah in part. I think it would have helped the whole situation a great deal if the actual functions of the crucible would have been revealed earlier and there would have been more exposure (even if purely speculative) on the consequences.
As it is now, all the potential negative consequences of all three choice just get swept under the rug (especially with the EC) which IMO is one of the most fatal flaws of the endings.
The thing is (to come back to the thread title) they are shown as happy endings while you can't really help but feel that they should not be.

Modifié par MrFob, 13 février 2013 - 01:34 .

[Iakus]

Cobretti ftw wrote...

i agree with CronoDragoon

Shockingly, so do I. 

[GreyLycanTrope]

iakus wrote...

Cobretti ftw wrote...

i agree with CronoDragoon

Shockingly, so do I. 

Not a first for me but I do as well.

[nrobbiec]

There can easily be a happy ending, you just have to come up with it yourself, which does mean you can get everything your way. Personally I can technobabble EDI and the Geth into surviving destroy since all we really have is just the Catalyst's word to go on. Let's face it, it just wants you to do synthesis so like it's not going to lie to get what it wants.

"If one's imagination cannot provide an answer, one must seek out a greater imagination."

[Iakus]

nrobbiec wrote...

There can easily be a happy ending, you just have to come up with it yourself, which does mean you can get everything your way. Personally I can technobabble EDI and the Geth into surviving destroy since all we really have is just the Catalyst's word to go on. Let's face it, it just wants you to do synthesis so like it's not going to lie to get what it wants.

"If one's imagination cannot provide an answer, one must seek out a greater imagination."

By that logic, I should stop reading books, watching movies, or playing games and just imagine stories I want.

Sadly, my imagination isn't that good, or I'd be a bestselling author 

[o Ventus]

nrobbiec wrote...

There can easily be a happy ending, you just have to come up with it yourself, which does mean you can get everything your way. Personally I can technobabble EDI and the Geth into surviving destroy since all we really have is just the Catalyst's word to go on. Let's face it, it just wants you to do synthesis so like it's not going to lie to get what it wants.

"If one's imagination cannot provide an answer, one must seek out a greater imagination."

1. EDI is constructed with bits of Sovereign. Those bits now no longer exist. Her name is also on the memorial wall when the crew places Shepard's placard up.

2. The geth are using Reaper code to become sentient. This code no longer exists.

3. Your point about imagination is bulls*it. 

[Reorte]

nrobbiec wrote...

There can easily be a happy ending, you just have to come up with it yourself, which does mean you can get everything your way. Personally I can technobabble EDI and the Geth into surviving destroy since all we really have is just the Catalyst's word to go on. Let's face it, it just wants you to do synthesis so like it's not going to lie to get what it wants.

"If one's imagination cannot provide an answer, one must seek out a greater imagination."

Oh, my imagination can but that's just my wishful thinking about what I hope happened. I don't know if it actually did.

[nrobbiec]

@iakus I meant that more in the way of why fanfiction exists basically. There's always more stories to tell in fictional universes.

@o Ventus EDI was a VI that gained awareness in ME1 she'd lose all her cyberwarfare enhanced defence stuff but the core intelligence could potentially remain. And the Geth still have their networked intelligence, coupled with Legion's memories and then their own true AI experiences. And then there's also the whole are intelligent beings more than the sum of our parts kind of thing.

@Reorte Isn't all headcanon/fanfiction wishful thinking to some degree

[o Ventus]

No, EDI is the lunar VI combined with pieces from Sovereign. The terminals aboard Cronos make it painfully clear. Even if EDI survives the Crucible, she won't be "EDI" anymore.

The geth are dead. The Catalyst has no reason to lie, neither from an RP perspective nor from a meta gaming point of view.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

People still bitter over the Geth and EDI perishing? Still trying to say that Bioware made it that way so it would "balance out the endings"?


Lol


The Geth and EDI being destroyed in "Destroy" makes perfect sense, regardless of how you feel about it.

I completely disagree, and it's because the Crucible has no rules. The Crucible has no boundaries of behavior, no specific mode of operation. It has a mode of distribution through the Citadel and relays, but its own nature is unlimited. The energy that it disperses can literally be used for anything the writers want it to be used, which is how you can get 3 different energy waves that do completely different things.

The Crucible has no rules because the writers wanted to be able to mold the endings as they saw fit, and yes to balance them. There is no explicit reason why the Crucible cannot target only Reapers in Destroy, especially since we know that it can in Control.

This isn't a problem just with Destroy. Why does Synthesis require Shepard's death? To balance the endings. Because the Crucible follows no explicit logic, we have to turn to implicit logic to make any sense of its workings. Even then, the reasons are dubious. If Destroy targets all Reaper code, then why not just say it targets all Reaper code? Why make the point that ALL synthetics, regardless of Reaper code, will be targeted?

So no, I disagree. It doesn't make sense that Destroy targets all synthetics, because we are given no premises for the Crucible through which we can analyze sense. The Crucible literally works as the writers want it to work. And they wanted it to destroy all synthetics.

This is a rather well made post.

On a related note. Another reason I think people might feel that EDI and the Geths deaths are forced in destroy is because we never actually see them die. If their deaths actually had some sort of meaning or purpose in terms of the narrative, you would think their deaths would have been showed. But no, instead they die off-screen without as much as word spoken about it, the only thing we get is EDI's nameplate on the wall and a few seconds of her face (which we did not even get in the original ending).

Imagine if in control or synthesis, Shepard's death consisted of him just walking off-screen, we never see him die or have him be referenced in some meaningful way afterwards, he just walked off from the screen and now he is gone.

It is hard to take such deaths seriously or believe that they serve some sort of dramatic purpose. Other than them being contrived and forced.

[PainCakesx]

I can't see why the Geth can't be rebuilt though. The technology still exists, even if all of them were blown to dust. The Quarians would still know how to make them.

[EnvyTB075]

Also, according to starchild, it doesn't discriminate from ANY synthetic, including those without Reaper tech, so the point about the Reaper code us moot.

If it can't discriminate, Shepalyst would be able to control EDI, the Geth and every other AI as well. We know this isn't the case, so the consequences in Destroy are blatently false.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 13 février 2013 - 02:52 .

[PainCakesx]

That and Shepard apparently survives in High-EMS Destroy despite being partly synthetic.

[nrobbiec]

That and the Catalyst is like minutes away from being killed or replaced, self-preservation instinct would be to lie and dissuade Shepard from those options.

[Mcfly616]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Also, according to starchild, it doesn't discriminate from ANY synthetic, including those without Reaper tech, so the point about the Reaper code us moot.

If it can't discriminate, Shepalyst would be able to control EDI, the Geth and every other AI as well. We know this isn't the case, so the consequences in Destroy are blatently false.

why would it need to discriminate when the Geth and EDI pretty much make up all of the synthetic AI's in the galaxy? Not to mention that they have Reaper code. Did you want him to say: "the Geth and your sexy ass robot friend will be destroyed, but the .9% of synthetics in the galaxy that you are unaware of (like the rogue AI in ME1), will survive"?

[GreyLycanTrope]

Mcfly616 wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Also, according to starchild, it doesn't discriminate from ANY synthetic, including those without Reaper tech, so the point about the Reaper code us moot.

If it can't discriminate, Shepalyst would be able to control EDI, the Geth and every other AI as well. We know this isn't the case, so the consequences in Destroy are blatently false.

why would it need to discriminate when the Geth and EDI pretty much make up all of the synthetic AI's in the galaxy? Not to mention that they have Reaper code. Did you want him to say: "the Geth and your sexy ass robot friend will be destroyed, but the .9% of synthetics in the galaxy that you are unaware of (like the rogue AI in ME1), will survive"?

Reaper code's got nothing to do with it.
The original version "All synthetics life. Including the Geth" Not "all synthetics life which is basically just the geth cause they've got Reaper code."
Post EC he just say it won't descrimnate, meanings the same though.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 13 février 2013 - 03:52 .

[EnvyTB075]

Mcfly616 wrote...

why would it need to discriminate when the Geth and EDI pretty much make up all of the synthetic AI's in the galaxy? Not to mention that they have Reaper code. Did you want him to say: "the Geth and your sexy ass robot friend will be destroyed, but the .9% of synthetics in the galaxy that you are unaware of (like the rogue AI in ME1), will survive"?

How do you know that they're the only sentient AI's in the Galaxy? Remember that one on the Citadel in ME1? How many more could have been developed in the Terminus systems un-checked simply because Citadel regulation doesn't apply there? How many more are IN citadel space that have remained hidden?

The issue is not about EDI and the Geth die, its that this consequence is ridden with so many holes that without even trying you can obviously see that its inclusion is absolutely arbitrary to the actual plot, and exists simply as a "negative" to coerce the player into considering the compromise options.

This could easily have been avoided with the high EMS and various factors such as Geth/Rachni inclusion in the Crucible project, leading to a more "complete" and undamaged Crucible by the time the end-game occurs. This would also tick off the other box that people have an issue with, your choices not truly having an effect during the end-game. Consequently you would have to alter Control and Synthesis in the same function. Damaged Crucible in control only lets you control half the reapers or something along those lines.