474 réponses à ce sujet

[keesio74]

OH FOR F***K's SAKE!!! Another hypersensitive poster. It's like that thread saying DA:O is a little racist because there (almost) no asian or black people in the game.



No matter what, there is always someone who raises a stink.

[Tekbear]

oh wow - you know if i would be that touchy/sensitive towards every stupid joke about gays being made i'd have a miserable life!

if you really want to victimize yourself or someone else there is tons of better examples out there.

Modifié par Tekbear, 08 janvier 2010 - 04:41 .

[yeoldearche]

Callie K wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Callie K wrote...
Mmm...smells like misogyny.

And yet a female writer wrote it?

That's more or less irrelevent.  Institutionalized sexism affects both male and female behavior.  If you're suggesting women don't behave in misogynistic ways you have only to look as far as the popularity of, say, tabloid magazines and how women in the American culture have been trained to tear each other down to enhance their own feelings of desirability and self-worth.

Projecting the idea that Morrigan's a **** and her genitals are gross, as the game as a whole allows the player to do with a variety of 'funny' lines, is still objectionable whether the script is written by a man or a woman.

Someone has a chip on their shoulder.

And I don't know who you're blaming for America's "institutionalized sexism", but women eat tabloids and Vogue-type magazines up btw.

a) Maybe someone might actually want to roleplay a misogynist?

This. I DEMAND MORE MISOGYNY DIALOGUE OPTIONS PLZ.

Modifié par yeoldearche, 08 janvier 2010 - 04:40 .

[Erakleitos]

When you are part of a random minority, you have to read offences everywhere, otherwise your minority wouldn't exist.. therefore your preciousss identity. Ahh, philosophy...

[Lord_Saulot]

Yeah, you are being a "hardline feminist" despite disclaiming it in the original post.

[Ariella]

robertthebard wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Bhatair wrote...
Or the endearing ability to laugh at ones self.

Which the OP clearly lacks.

Sorry, but my impression is that this was just meant as an amusing poke at Morrigan -- I didn't even get the impression that the player needs to be serious when he/she says it. If we aren't "equal opportunity" enough to also include disparaging remarks about male genitalia then I guess we'll just have to bear that heavy burden.

Considering Morrigan's response; "I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear that", roughly, I don't she was very offended either.  I expected to get nuked to oblivion, both in the cutscene, and approval.  End result on approval?  Zero, she didn't have any reaction other than the above line.

The only person in the party, it seems, who can truly offend Morrigan is Oghren. When Alistair asks for your opinions on the other members of your group, I forget what line to pick to get this, but Alistair tells you that even Morrigan had told Orghren he stunk and Ogrhen ran her off with a stream of invectives that Alistair admits to never even hearing of before. 

[Stereoscoptic]

Callie K wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Callie K wrote...
Mmm...smells like misogyny.

And yet a female writer wrote it?

That's more or less irrelevent.  Institutionalized sexism affects both male and female behavior.  If you're suggesting women don't behave in misogynistic ways you have only to look as far as the popularity of, say, tabloid magazines and how women in the American culture have been trained to tear each other down to enhance their own feelings of desirability and self-worth.

Projecting the idea that Morrigan's a **** and her genitals are gross, as the game as a whole allows the player to do with a variety of 'funny' lines, is still objectionable whether the script is written by a man or a woman.

And yet, female hatred of men is so ingrained that it's not even considered a topic.  Virtually no one here has even heard the word "misandry", not because it's not common, but because it's totally accepted.  Sexism at it's worst.

Later!  I gotta go to work.

[Ethical Scabs]

I'm pretty sure the line didn't read "ALL WOMEN'S OOOONDERPANTS SMELL FUNNY".



It was singular. Is it sexist to call a man a boorish **** if he is one? No.



This was just a singular mean comment--one that could very well be grounded in 'game-world' truth.

[amethyst_rose2009]

The line was obviously a jab at Morrigan, nothing more.  I'm female and I thought the line was hilarious, especially since Morrigan and my female pc didn't get along.

Modifié par amethyst_rose2009, 08 janvier 2010 - 04:46 .

[Sialater]

You also get to say, "I'm the bravest one here and I'm a woman," at the Joining. (I'd have actually thought it funnier to say, "I'm the bravest one here and I'm an elf," but that's just me.)



Cry me a fricken river. The more we cry wolf over the minor crap, the more we get ignored on the major crap. It was a JOKE. Don't like it, don't pick the line.

[JAMiAM]

One plays with the hand they're dealt, and if the misogyny card is the only one you've got...



Me...I prefer to show Jacks and Sixes...;^)

[keesio74]

Next thing you know, old people will be complaining at some of the "old person" jokes that can be directed at Wynne.



And of course some in the gay community has already made some noise over Zevran (a stereotypical flamboyant, "loose" gay guy) though overall they seem to give props to DA:O for having options for gay romances.

[robertthebard]

Ariella wrote...

The only person in the party, it seems, who can truly offend Morrigan is Oghren. When Alistair asks for your opinions on the other members of your group, I forget what line to pick to get this, but Alistair tells you that even Morrigan had told Orghren he stunk and Ogrhen ran her off with a stream of invectives that Alistair admits to never even hearing of before. 

I never got that.   Guess I'll have to try another game to see if I can get that in the discussion, I think the last time I got it, I didn't have Oghren, but I can't remember.

[Valmy]

Callie K wrote...
tabloid magazines and how women in the American culture have been trained to tear each other down to enhance their own feelings of desirability and self-worth.

Heaven forbid you see women as adults and as humans instead of brainless victims for you to heroically rescue.

[Vaern Sul]

So the Zevran line featuring a "control rod" is an ominous anti-male criticism, as it is actually telling us that every male in only driven by its primal instincts rather than sentient thought ?

As Wynne said to Tower guard, "It's better if you don't dwell on it."

[Creature 1]

Callie K wrote...
Get it? lol.  Women's sex organs smell like fish.  Or dead animals.  Or something gross. 

Mmm...smells like misogyny.

Maybe poor Morrigan is suffering from bacterial vaginosis.    They must have a balm for that. 

[Ariella]

robertthebard wrote...

Ariella wrote...

The only person in the party, it seems, who can truly offend Morrigan is Oghren. When Alistair asks for your opinions on the other members of your group, I forget what line to pick to get this, but Alistair tells you that even Morrigan had told Orghren he stunk and Ogrhen ran her off with a stream of invectives that Alistair admits to never even hearing of before. 

I never got that.   Guess I'll have to try another game to see if I can get that in the discussion, I think the last time I got it, I didn't have Oghren, but I can't remember.

It was my first time. I was playing around with some of the options at like 3 AM because I couldn't sleep and got it. I think it's in the first round of lines about him.

I also noticed there's no losing approval in any of the scenes with the dog and another party member, because you can get really snarky with Alistair in the very first one and lose nada .

[Sialater]

Hey, no one messes with my dog. Not even my (virtual) boyfriend.

Modifié par Sialater, 08 janvier 2010 - 04:51 .

[Herr Uhl]

Ariella wrote...
I also noticed there's no losing approval in any of the scenes with the dog and another party member, because you can get really snarky with Alistair in the very first one and lose nada .

Good boy, show that silly Alastair.

[JAMiAM]

Creature 1 wrote...

Callie K wrote...
Get it? lol.  Women's sex organs smell like fish.  Or dead animals.  Or something gross. 

Mmm...smells like misogyny.

Maybe poor Morrigan is suffering from bacterial vaginosis.    They must have a balm for that. 

Finally!  A use for all those Greater Nature Salves that tend to accumulate in my backpacks...

[TSamee]

heh... Forget my last post, BioWare has realised that, deep inside, we all appreciate this kind of humour.



And yeah, it is a purely optional choice, so why not include it? You can say Alistair has no genitalia at all (in fun), so what's so bad about this, all things considered?



To be honest, I get the feeling the OP is tossing about the word "misogynist" a little bit, but I'm not going to bash Callie for expressing her, admittedly somewhat extreme, views. "Misogyny"- Hate of women, generally associated with sexism. This isn't hate of women as a whole, and it'd only really be misogynistic if you could treat most women in the game like this. It's just a dig at Morrigan, and can sort of be considered revenge for her multiple digs at you, Alistair and... well, everyone really.

[Erakleitos]

Not to mention when Zevran puts a hand inside the tree stump in brecilian forest... "now... when it was the last time i put a hand in dark hole..." ;p

[syllogi]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And a snarky joke is just a joke.



I consider myself a proud feminist, but this is *so* not a hill to die on, or even ponder.

[Callie K]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Yeah, you are being a "hardline feminist" despite disclaiming it in the original post.

Actually, with the immediate flood of responses to this post in defense of being able to tell women to get in the kitchen and that their genitals are filthy, I'm starting to think "hardline feminist" is a good thing to be called and retract my statement.  I think somebody has to be one.

The game as a whole is relatively problematic, a fantasy world where, if you pick a female character, you get to listen to people exclaim how rare and novel it is to see a female warrior/mage/rogue out in the world.  Sten disbelieves you could possibly have female sex organs.  Alistair is happy that the eternal Grey Warden question of "Will there be girls there?" is finally "Yes."  Even Morrigan later relates her shock upon first seeing you that she ever came across a bold and competent woman.  Despite having more than one strong female character, DAO loves to talk about the novelty of strong female characters.  "Look at us!  We remembered to include girls!  Remember, kids, old European society was not feminist!'

Although I've beaten the game going on three times, yes, I'd have to say even without the lines like "Get in the kitchen" and "lol it smellz liek fish" the most irritating thing in the game is how often I have to hear about the marvel that is my character's mammeries.

keesio74 wrote...

OH FOR F***K's SAKE!!! Another hypersensitive poster. It's like that thread saying DA:O is a little racist because there (almost) no asian or black people in the game.

No matter what, there is always someone who raises a stink.

On the whole DAO has typical Tolkien-derived racism where instead of having a diversity of skin tone you have elves, dwarves and humans.  Pretty, fey Caucasians, stocky, burly Caucasians, and more or less average looking Caucasians.  Is it unique to DAO?  No.  Creating a diverse world of different looking white people is stock and trade for European fantasy.