199 réponses à ce sujet

[Shinnyshin]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Hit them with Reave FIRST then move in and use the bubble. There's your Biotic explosion. Then toss another reave in it. Another boom. Also effects multiple enemies with a single cast and is quite handy for getting things in cover near you without having to move out into view.

 

Because running all the way into an enemy spawn with a non-tanky character to set off one or two of the weakest BE's in the entire game is an efficient way of killing things? It's fun to do for a little bit, but the novelty wears off very quickly.

So don't run into spawns...? Use that on smaller groups of enemies? Stay in cover like I suggested? Besides that, the novelty of playing a single character over and over when we have 60 to choose from runs thin quite quick with me for any character.

See, I would buy this and agree if the explosion were good.  But it's not.  The Warp is rank 1.  The minute that's fixed/buffed, it'll be a completely different story.  By detonating, you're often doing a disservice to any other Biotic in the area.

I really like the sound of Bubble defensively.  It looks absolutely amazing on paper.  But it's a really rare game that I get to actually use it effectively.  Perhaps the ability to center it on a character but giving it a much lower duration so you can't just fire-and-forget a Bubble on someone for a whole round at a time?

[Tyrannus00]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Hit them with Reave FIRST then move in and use the bubble. There's your Biotic explosion. Then toss another reave in it. Another boom. Also effects multiple enemies with a single cast and is quite handy for getting things in cover near you without having to move out into view.

 

Because running all the way into an enemy spawn with a non-tanky character to set off one or two of the weakest BE's in the entire game is an efficient way of killing things? It's fun to do for a little bit, but the novelty wears off very quickly.

So don't run into spawns...? Use that on smaller groups of enemies? Stay in cover like I suggested? Besides that, the novelty of playing a single character over and over when we have 60 to choose from runs thin quite quick with me for any character.

 

Right. Let's reave --> bubble for BE's on a group of 2 - 3 enemies, while risking getting gunned down in the process, when we could just reave & shoot them.

Alright, we understand you don't like the setup. Doesn't mean that it's the worst class in the game.

[Aetika]

I agree. And I am saying that as someone who loves the bubble. Lately I found myself using the "reave, run in a and throw bubble" tactic less and less. Particulary on later waves, it´s not even viable as you expose yourself to too much heat. Many times using reave and reave and reave seems like quicker and more effective way. Sadly, it´s also more boring way.
I think bubble does destroy swarmers, but it would be absolutely awesome if it would kill seekers swarm also.

[Lord Rosario]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Lord_Sirian wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Hit them with Reave FIRST then move in and use the bubble. There's your Biotic explosion. Then toss another reave in it. Another boom. Also effects multiple enemies with a single cast and is quite handy for getting things in cover near you without having to move out into view.

 

Because running all the way into an enemy spawn with a non-tanky character to set off one or two of the weakest BE's in the entire game is an efficient way of killing things? It's fun to do for a little bit, but the novelty wears off very quickly.

So don't run into spawns...? Use that on smaller groups of enemies? Stay in cover like I suggested? Besides that, the novelty of playing a single character over and over when we have 60 to choose from runs thin quite quick with me for any character.

 

Right. Let's reave --> bubble for BE's on a group of 2 - 3 enemies, while risking getting gunned down in the process, when we could just reave & shoot them.

Do all of it.. Just doing one thing constantly is silly. Change it up. Shoot at them with warp ammo and use reave sometimes while others using the sphere as needed. Really.. I think that's pretty basic. Claiming that an ability needs to be buffed because it doesn't destroy entire spawns of enemies quickly is not a good reason. Both Reave and Biotic Sphere are very versatile abilities. Giving damage reduction while dealing damage and both have the ability to set up and set off biotic explosions. The Sphere can be shared. All that capability needs to be taken into account when balancing it, not just a single one.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

I run with 6-6-6-4-4 now, offensive bubble.  I don't do suicidal runs up to enemies but cast it around them when prudent or set it up in a chokepoint.

I think the bubble has lost much of its appeal due to the faster paced game that the ME3 evolved into.  Camping is out, and bubble is predominantly a camping power.  Making the bubble castable on any squadmate or on any enemy in line of sight would  help.

Bear in mind that even a full offensive bubble gives 20% damage reduction while you are in it.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 20 janvier 2013 - 06:13 .

[Tyrannus00]

Well I never said you were implying it, I was declaring it.

[ToaOrka]

I like it, it's currently the only way she
can prime or detonate armoured targets
on her own.

[Shinnyshin]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Do all of it.. Just doing one thing constantly is silly. Change it up. Shoot at them with warp ammo and use reave sometimes while others using the sphere as needed. Really.. I think that's pretty basic. Claiming that an ability needs to be buffed because it doesn't destroy entire spawns of enemies quickly is not a good reason. Both Reave and Biotic Sphere are very versatile abilities. Giving damage reduction while dealing damage and both have the ability to set up and set off biotic explosions. The Sphere can be shared. All that capability needs to be taken into account when balancing it, not just a single one.

Nobody has claimed it needs buffs because it "doesn't destroy entire spawns of enemies quickly".  People are claiming it needs buffs because it's not action-economy efficient for the result you get, especially compared to her peers.  And that it's also not risk-reward efficient.

Furthermore, people are criticizing the Sphere's Biotic Explosion for only providing a rank 1 primer/detonator even with 21 points invested in the ability.  Which is a very reasonable criticism, considering most (all?) Biotic kits can set up rank 12 Biotic explosions with a lot less effort involved.

You can't evaluate abilities and kits in a vacuum.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 20 janvier 2013 - 06:18 .

[U Bite My Pillow]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

The Justicar is basically a sucky Drell Adept. Needs a buff all round TBH.

Reave is awesome, no problem with it. Pull sucks, garbage power.

Bubble is useful on occasion, but as a detonator/primer it's fairly worthless. So the AJA is basically an AoE primer with no reliable detonator. The only real way to make her good is to put a high powered weapon with warp ammo on her and then reave & headshot.

Might as well be a soldier.

She basically is, she has the soldiers natural weight bonus. With Evo 4 in Justicar training with a Phaeston X she has 191% cool downs. Not to mention higher shields than her Asari sisters 990 instead of 825.

[megawug]

+1

Buff, please!!!

[Lord Rosario]

@Air Quotes & Sirian. You seem to be missing the point. No, it doesn't do any one thing very well. What it does do though is do many many things all at once.

Perhaps an example will help.. I use it as fully defensive except for the last warp evolution. This give myself and my team a good place to hunker down if need be, tying it with my reave for further damage reduction. When too many enemies start getting close, the bubble will then help offensively as your team backs off. Using the bubble to set up explosions now, Reave to set them off, and firing on them with warp ammo will rip them apart. Now, once those numbers are low, you can go in and clean up what's left with Reave ---> Bubble, taking out slow heavy enemies that would be left over. While getting close, you additionally have 70% damage reduction from Reave + Sphere while also setting off minor explosions constantly AND dealing DOT with both abilities.

No one thing about it does exceptionally well, but it is VERY versatile and does many things, bestowing these boosts to all your allies and to multiple enemies all at once.

[Invader Nemesis]

The justicar is one of my personal favorites. I think they should just speed up the animation for the bubble. Maybe increase the radius a bit.

[Lord Rosario]

Shinnyshin wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Do all of it.. Just doing one thing constantly is silly. Change it up. Shoot at them with warp ammo and use reave sometimes while others using the sphere as needed. Really.. I think that's pretty basic. Claiming that an ability needs to be buffed because it doesn't destroy entire spawns of enemies quickly is not a good reason. Both Reave and Biotic Sphere are very versatile abilities. Giving damage reduction while dealing damage and both have the ability to set up and set off biotic explosions. The Sphere can be shared. All that capability needs to be taken into account when balancing it, not just a single one.

Nobody has claimed it needs buffs because it "doesn't destroy entire spawns of enemies quickly".  People are claiming it needs buffs because it's not action-economy efficient for the result you get, especially compared to her peers.  And that it's also not risk-reward efficient.

Furthermore, people are criticizing the Sphere's Biotic Explosion for only providing a rank 1 primer/detonator even with 21 points invested in the ability.  Which is a very reasonable criticism, considering most (all?) Biotic kits can set up rank 12 Biotic explosions with a lot less effort involved.

You can't evaluate abilities and kits in a vacuum.

No other biotic ability also bestows all of it's bonuses to every single ally on your team and can prime several biotic explosions all at once with a single cast. Only one other one gives damage reduction as well, but not to all team mates as well as the possibility of increased shield regen among other things.

Also, no other biotic ability gets it's priming and detonating ability from a single evolution. They either start with it or they don't have it. It's fair that since a single evolution gives access to that that it also only give one ranks worth of detonating capability.

[Shinnyshin]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Perhaps an example will help.. I use it as fully defensive except for the last warp evolution. This give myself and my team a good place to hunker down if need be, tying it with my reave for further damage reduction. When too many enemies start getting close, the bubble will then help offensively as your team backs off. Using the bubble to set up explosions now, Reave to set them off, and firing on them with warp ammo will rip them apart. Now, once those numbers are low, you can go in and clean up what's left with Reave ---> Bubble, taking out slow heavy enemies that would be left over. While getting close, you additionally have 70% damage reduction from Reave + Sphere while also setting off minor explosions constantly AND dealing DOT with both abilities.

No one thing about it does exceptionally well, but it is VERY versatile and does many things, bestowing these boosts to all your allies and to multiple enemies all at once.

This is a very pretty scenario.  Now tell me, how often does something like this happen?  I've been playing the Justicar a lot over the last few weeks and I can only think of a few times.  Mainly while doing wave 6/10 hacks and going full man-mode and holding the evac.

The first scenario is pretty rare and even then it's debatable how much you're actually providing compared to any more reliable power.  The latter, while hilarious to do with friends, is something that should never happen.

Air Quotes wrote...

This game also favors 1 thing and 1 thing only. DPS. So versatile thing no matter how nice on paper thay are always lose to things that are tailor made to deal DPS and maximum rate. It's just how it is. 

It also favors mobility.  Which, by the way, is something that the Justicar is terrible with.  The more people are doing their jobs right, the less good she is.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 20 janvier 2013 - 06:35 .

[BACON4BREAKFAST]

As of now I typically only play the Justicar when I'm playing with a biotic team. Bubble is very useful for bosses and if you can stagger groups of enemies and cast it on them it's also pretty nice. I wouldn't mind a base radius buff, but other than that I think it's pretty solid.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Lord_Sirian wrote...

lol.

If you're standing in the sphere with your enemies (which you imply by saying that you're getting DR AND setting off BE's/dealing DOT) you aren't going to survive for very long no matter how much DR you have.

I mentioned the DR as a point of versatility.  However, many times I have the bubble around me in cover and an enemy approaches and I can set up the BE.  Plus the bubble debuffs it (increase damage taken by 15%.)  Like I said, I'm all for a buff, and I think being able to cast it on any squad mate or enemy in your sight would help it out a lot.

[Shinnyshin]

Lord Rosario wrote...

No other biotic ability also bestows all of it's bonuses to every single ally on your team and can prime several biotic explosions all at once with a single cast. Only one other one gives damage reduction as well, but not to all team mates as well as the possibility of increased shield regen among other things.

Also, no other biotic ability gets it's priming and detonating ability from a single evolution. They either start with it or they don't have it. It's fair that since a single evolution gives access to that that it also only give one ranks worth of detonating capability.

As to your first point, the Bubble usually doesn't do that.  In most matches, it can't.  'cause mobility.

As to your second point, is that a plus in your book?  Because what you just described as a pro (the ability to get a rank 1 primer/detonator with a rank 6 evolution) seems like a pretty big con in my book considering most Biotic abilities get for free and better what the Justicar has to spend a valuable evolution to get by on.

Bubble is a unique ability, I'll give you that.  But not in a way that's good and meaningful.  It's a party trick.  With regards to action-economy, benefits with points spent, and risk-reward, the Justicar is objectively worse than most of her counterparts.  Inarguably.  Because of Bubble's limitations.  You can talk scenarios all you want, but once we get to usability and bang for the buck compared to peers, it's indefensible.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 20 janvier 2013 - 06:40 .

[SubjectThriteen]

I think more radius is reasonable. The enemies are evolving, The classes need to as well.