199 réponses à ce sujet

[SpockLives]

Did some number crunching. Counting only the damage of the Biotic Explosions (not the damage of the powers, and Reave does good damage), the Justicar has to Reave-Sphere-Reave for two combos to do 2109 points of damage to health on Gold. She also has to be right on top of the enemies to manage it.

Meanwhile, the original Asari Adept can simply do Warp-Throw to deal 1898 points of damage to health on Gold. She can also do it from outside of melee range. So the Justicar has to do two biotic combos to do only 211 points more damage than the Adept can do with one. Meanwhile, the Justicar is getting shot more because she has to get close to use Sphere.

I like the Justicar and think she deserves a buff.

[dreman9999]

SpockLives wrote...

Did some number crunching. Counting only the damage of the Biotic Explosions (not the damage of the powers, and Reave does good damage), the Justicar has to Reave-Sphere-Reave for two combos to do 2109 points of damage to health on Gold. She also has to be right on top of the enemies to manage it.

Meanwhile, the original Asari Adept can simply do Warp-Throw to deal 1898 points of damage to health on Gold. She can also do it from outside of melee range. So the Justicar has to do two biotic combos to do only 211 points more damage than the Adept can do with one. Meanwhile, the Justicar is getting shot more because she has to get close to use Sphere.

I like the Justicar and think she deserves a buff.

The justicar was never an attack based Adept. Though Iageethe bubble does need a buff.

[Hyperglide]

Admiral Dreck wrote...

Totally agree.
Her bubble should prevent Seeker swarms from entering.
Which would make her a neccesary Kit against Collectors.
New SalEngi-FBWGG.. :Þ

Ravagers Swarmers too should not be able to penetrate the shield.  Makes sense.

[Daihannya]

SKhalazza wrote...

Daihannya wrote...

Lathrim wrote...

immanji wrote...
She is very durable

No, she isn't. Full Fitness and/or Reave's DR does not protect her enough to make up for being heavily outclassed in terms of damage output, and staying inside the Sphere for extended periods of time is moronic.

immanji wrote...
I score very high with her

Drell Adept has more damage potential in every way.

Actually forget the bubble.  Too many campers on rio abusing it still.  We know bioware hates campers so it will never get buffed more likely nerfed.  
But looking at the drell, one of the reasons the he is so strong is his weapons passives not just grenades.  Justicar should get the same weapon bonuses in her passives.  That will make her on par with the drell on maps like glacier.

Not really. She doesn't have to manage grenade. I think it's a fair trade off : less passive bonus but ulimited power.

Why she must be on par with the drell ? You musn't forget that he has less shield too.

I see nothing wrong with the bubble.  As I stated I still see platinum campers using it on rio with success.  Cast at choke points you can use it as a debuff, and detonation point . But from the OP's perpective I can see where he is having issues with it.    He is probably playing with high caliber players that can take the fight to the enemy.  They move and attack the enemy to kill them.   They are competing against one another to see who can outscore who.   In that role, the current bubble is lacking. 

So now looking at the drell/AJ.  I don't think she should be a drell.   But the drell's weapons passive
are pretty strong.   Reave+shoot with warp ammo ends up with dead mooks.  Sure an offensive bubble can make up and actually exceed those passives, but still the enemy has to be in the bubble to take advantage of it.  If you are playing with high caliber players,  the drell player woud have killed it before you even cast the bubble.  Not only that cluster grenages can be done from range too.  Drell also move so darn fast they can get to the target before an AJ can.  So in order for my justicar to keep up with the range attacks, she should be able to deal the same amount of damage at range as a drell's reave+shoot.   And if she closes in and takes risk to deploy the bubble she is rewarded more debuff to make up for the sheer damage a cluster grenade can do.  That way my AJ score can be equal or more than a drell on grenade rich map. If you look at it from this perspective, it makes more sense than buffing the bubble.  If you like this argument, then you should support my unnerf of the destroyer, given the current status of the turrian soldier. 

Drell's don't need shields.  Reave+Movement bonuses, with addrenaline mods more than make up for them being squishy.

[Urdnot Trex]

I can see great potential for the justicar vs collectors if her bubble worked like samara's in ME2 blocking seeker swarms. Also if it blocked the swarm on glacier hazard that would be awesome. Maybe an additional bonus would be that any possessed unit to enter the bubble would no longer be possessed. She would be excellent for that faction.

[jezcrow]

Urdnot Trex wrote...

I can see great potential for the justicar vs collectors if her bubble worked like samara's in ME2 blocking seeker swarms. Also if it blocked the swarm on glacier hazard that would be awesome. Maybe an additional bonus would be that any possessed unit to enter the bubble would no longer be possessed. She would be excellent for that faction.

Alas, I sense that Samara will take the secrets of a moving bubble and seeker swarm blocking to the grave. 

[ClockworkSpectre]

I completely agree that the Justicar needs a buff, especially after the last patch/dlc that pretty much made camping useless. With the Justicars bubble being a defensive ability it is almost obsolete at higher difficulties. I think if they retooled it to be mobile, based on the position of the player, and maybe reduce some of its benefits seeing as making it mobile is a huge buff. Think of it as a defensive version of Annihilation field, would make it much more attractive as a useful ability, right now I usually only take it to level 3 or 4 and rarely ever use it.

[Beta Commando]

Last time I played as a defensive oriented Justicar, I enjoyed it and actually did pretty well but now that you mention it, all the other times I played as her seemed made her feel like a worse version of any other biotic. Even the Asari Huntress feels to be better than Justicar and Hunter is Infiltrator after all so it makes you wonder about the Justicars lack of dealing with anything.
What I see is that she is indeed good at covering team mates and key locations thanks to the added bonuses the bubble gives, BUT the problem is what everyone else have said here already. The bubble, her main ability (should be) is so situation depended that combined with her skillset and the things the bubble offers are nothing compared to what a Volus shield boost offers or a Fury annihilation field gives.

So all in all a buff of some kind is needed to the 4-6 evolution.

[DeadeyeCYclops]

I can't say much for the defensive bubble, i always thought it was stupid if you wanted defense it had to be in such a small bubble, but then i always just thought the defense bubble was useless anyway at the cost of 1 way to cause a BE.

However the offensive bubble for me works wonders, It takes some strategic placing and i usually run a adrenaline amp on her so you can put it where it needs to be and retreat fast enough and safe enough to make it useful. so i don't really see any need to buff the offensive side.

They both should have the same radius though thats about the only change i would make.

I've never had the problem with enemies walking through it b4 i could hit them with reave though so i think thats just bad timing on the people who have that happen, or just bad placement of the bubble

[cipherknight]

Bubble needs love. It's a weak primer/weak detonator . A volus character can do defensive bubble better in every single possible way.Not to mention the fact many baddies move faster now that by the time they're in the bubble they're already out and even if a player triggers a BE it's the weakest BE possible.

[Roobz82]

I've been speccing out of bubble for area pull and have found the class gold worthy. Try a bigger gun with warp ammo for lulz. Pull is a primer and mook killer. Also staggers in a pinch. I always take area reave and armour/ barrier damage to compensate for pull's inadequecies. It allows you take advantage of the AR weight reduction.

[Crocodiles]

The offensive bubble should slow down enemies, so they'd stay in longer. On the other hand, the defensive bubble should offer stagger resistance or immunity.

[Dilandau3000]

Daihannya wrote...

I see nothing wrong with the bubble.  As I stated I still see platinum campers using it on rio with success.  Cast at choke points you can use it as a debuff, and detonation point . But from the OP's perpective I can see where he is having issues with it.    He is probably playing with high caliber players that can take the fight to the enemy.  They move and attack the enemy to kill them.   They are competing against one another to see who can outscore who.   In that role, the current bubble is lacking. 

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. The Justicar is not a very high DPS class, so when playing with very good players who are using high DPS classes, of course it may seem underwhelming. The offensive bubble's method of killing is virtually impossible to do if you've got team mates obliterating spawns, and if you want to do so yourself the defensive bubble is also useless.

If, by contrast, you play with a typical PUG on gold as I usually do, I have found the Justicar one of the most dependable classes out there in terms of just being able to pull the team through. She has exactly the right combination of durability and maneuverability for me that I can survive almost any situation even if I have to clutch wave 9 or something like that. She is also an excellent medic since she's tough enough to survive running in to revive, and deploying the bubble will stagger everyone (preventing a stomp) and give the just revived player a little bit of help.

The Justicar is very, very high on my list of characters I would prefer to be using if I have to solo an entire wave. In a typical PUG, I nearly always score first with her despite using a defensive build and only a Hurricane for weaponry.

So in summary, she's great when you need a dependable character in a crunch situation with a PUG, but not great if you're competing for score against friends (or other good players) using TGIs and GIs.

Though I must say, having the bubble block seeker swarms would the best thing ever (although it would rob me of the opportunity to yell "I'M COVERED IN BEES!" on voice chat ).

Modifié par Dilandau3000, 21 janvier 2013 - 01:57 .

[Spirit Keeper]

You are right, a buff is needed.

[joseardzm]

Easiest things to do:

Buff radius to 5m (rank evo 4), and increase by 5% its defensive capabilities evolutions, Warp evo up to 100 pts.

But I wish like others have said, to make it a ME2 Biotic moveable bubble, with any of these abilities:

Make it an actual barrier, so that nobody can take dmg until the barriers is broken by enemy fire
or
Provide dmg reduction and give it a determined duration

As in ME2, while the bubble is active, the caster can't do anything else.

Enemies can enter the bubble but seeker swamrs will get a +500% dmg from the warp if they dare to enter!

Modifié par joseardzm, 21 janvier 2013 - 06:25 .

[GAMEofDEATH-PS3]

Air Quotes wrote...

GAMEofDEATH-PS3 wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Who needs a defensive bubble when you have Volus now with Shield boost? It's slow to set up, little radius and in normal waves - not useful much, only on hacks or drone escorts.  

And offensive bubble is not that great either considering we have Acolyte now. Again, it's very situational, on open maps even more so, enemies tend to avoid it. Fast enemies just warp trough or run trough it faster than you can cast Reave on them. 

Plus the casting animation is slow, and you can easily be staggered out of it or you cancel it yourself when you need to dodge at the same time. Bubble + Reave BE's are not that powerful either.  

Defensive bubble should have a bigger radius + better bonus (shield from swarmers)
Offensive bubble should either make more powerful BE's or targets should be primed for 3-5 seconds after entering it and leaving it or you should be able to do BE's non stop as long as the target is in the bubble, not limited to 2. 

Probally gonna hate me for saying this which is fine but from were im sitting it just sounds
like you dont know how to use the bubble. Everything you just said has a work around to it. I use to
think the same way when the character 1st came around then after using her for a long time i learned
more then a few tricks and was able to make use of what i like to call "The Room Of Death" Enemies
go in and even less come out with the right setup of course. Then i stopped playing her for a long
time and when i did i just wasnt killing them like i use to, even got myself killed in a bunch of shameful
ways. Thats when i knew that this ability in the right hands was actually OP. Which explains why only 1
character has.

Seriously how can you compare a volus's shield boost (which only provides defense & no offense not to mention the poor little dude is kind of dependent on the move since hes squishy) or the Acolyte (Its a gun that is made for killing shields/barriers how is this comparable to a stationary deffensive/offensive ability) and if enemies are avoiding the bubble then you obviously put it in a bad spot especailly if your expecting them to walk through it.

Tip:
1. Dont setup the bubble were your gonna get shot/staggered.
2. If you have a good place to shoot from cover/right hand advantage then setup shop with the bubble
for extra protection even if its built for offense.
3. Setting it up in a spot from were you know enemies have no choice to come from is useful. (like a trap)
4. Because the justicar can slide, you are able to put yourself in the bubble with certain enemies
and dance with them inside the bubble until they are dead. (This takes patience & skill to master
especially on higher difficulties)
5. Using guns that stagger like the Falcon can help bottle neck enemies keeping them inside the bubble
long for more dmg. especially if you have it setup in a narrow spot for them to come from.
6. Hit and run tactics are very useful even on platinum. So as long as the enemy isnt focused directly
on you in big numbers. If you can get close to the group by using cover then poke out with a reave
followed by running at them then using bubble with somewhere to run to that gives you cover afterwards.
You can just repeat this going back and forth until they are dead or until its safe enough to just finish them off
how ever you wish.

Simply put you can make it work.

 

  

I did Gold solos with her against Reapers, Cerberus and Collectors. With only a Disciple. I think I know. 

No... What we know is that you ran gold solos against every faction with a disciple and thats all we know period.
That in no way explains what you do and dont understnd about the bubble does it?
Also this doesnt explain why comparing shield boost & acolyte to the bubble has to do with anything,
which seems just pointless.

Sounds to me like all your doing is throwing daggers at this ability so that you can discredit it
without actually providing any real substance for an argument.

If i sat here and said iv ran platinum solo with her using the same weapon or something worse
would that really allow me to say that i know. There are ppl who go years doing something the
wrong way but dont realise it and wont listen to others cause there way works well enough as it
is. But in the long run they may come to find something new about something they thought they
knew enough about.

"A closed mind can only be served as a present to ones disillusions."  

[Xetto]

Interesting could be her being able to place multiple bubbles aswell,
or the bubble stays around her.

[ArcaptSSX]

Having multiple bubbles seems unlikely, they'd have to nerf the CD considerably. Having the bubble stay around her is some sort of better Annihilation Field, it's not going to happen.

[IoeShepard]

Swarmers and seekers should not be able to enter the Sphere.
This would be nice.

Slight dmg buff on warp dmg and the resulting BE.

---

Even without i play the Justicar a lot - i like the challenge to predict enemy movement.
Wouldn´t mind a new Asari char that provides a similar challenge.

[jimcamx]

2 bubbles!

[Xetto]

JohnBobbyTheThird wrote...

Having multiple bubbles seems unlikely, they'd have to nerf the CD considerably. Having the bubble stay around her is some sort of better Annihilation Field, it's not going to happen.

Even with multiple bubbles they arent that great imo, it will just make the possibility to put it up more places thus giving a bigger chance of mobs entering.

[wartser]

I really like the idea of moving bubble that stays with you, kind of like AF. But when I think about that, it seems a bit OP if you could run around like a fury, setting off BEs, but also get loads of DR. So here are a few half-baked thoughts.

1. Moveable bubble that stays with player but reduces movement speed and hampers power recharge. This is basically combining tech armor and AF into one power. Needs some debuffs to make sense.

2. Throw-able bubble. This in essence is almost like a turret. A bubble appears where you aim. This may warrant an increased CD.

3. Buff everything. Up the DR, radius, vulnerability, and warp effect.

Tweaks, applause, criticism, or whatever is good.

Are you guys sure about weak BEs when it's used to detonate?. I know it primes only because of the weak warp effect from rank 6 evo, so that means weak BE when used as primer. But this power works as detonator without warp effect, so wouldn't that mean a full power BE when used as detonator?

Also the sphere does kill swarmers if you take warp effect.

[jackjj]

 buff: radius, warp, (mobility), defensiveness
in short: complete overhaul
that would be really worth it and wouldn't even need a patch
or: make it mobile like with Samara/Jack - the downside would be that you can't deal any "active" damage (via weapons) but protect your team under the bubble a lot (e.g. better stunlock protection, safe from seeker-swarms, and the biggest part of the explosions from those walking bombs, etc.)

now that would be fun 

Modifié par jackjj, 21 janvier 2013 - 10:32 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

jackjj wrote...

 buff: radius, warp, (mobility), defensiveness
in short: complete overhaul
that would be really worth it and wouldn't even need a patch
or: make it mobile like with Samara/Jack - the downside would be that you can't deal any "active" damage (via weapons) but protect your team under the bubble a lot (e.g. better stunlock protection, safe from seeker-swarms, and the biggest part of the explosions from those walking bombs, etc.)

now that would be fun 

I'd hate a bubble that required me to be inactive other than moving or that made me move slowly.  The game is fast paced.  The squadmates are not going to hang back around the justicar, they are going to run ahead and kill stuff.  The bubble would be a whole lot more situational than it is now.  I could play a shield spamming Volus if all I wanted to do was keep everybody on their feet.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 21 janvier 2013 - 11:13 .