270 réponses à ce sujet

[Battlebloodmage]

Somehow all these arguments essentially about people disliking ghey stuffs in the game.

[Khayness]

simfamSP wrote...

Why the **** does it bother people that romanceble characters are bisexual? They are still the same freaking characters whether gay or straight! It's not like Anders walks around with a carrier purse and wears a pink scarf when Male Hawke is around; yet when Female Hawke is there, he's ripped as **** and spends most of his day doing squats in his clinic -.-

They are interesting characters. Period. Bi, straight or gay, the DA team writes them all the same -.-

Your knowledge of them being Bisexual is sometimes meta, no actual dialogue indicates their orientation. This can lead to flip of the coin sexuality; you play as a male, females are straight, males are homosexual, you play as a female, males are hetero, girls are all yuri over you!

It's bad writing. Leliana and Zevran was well done in DA:O, ninjamance aside, but in DA2 it got slippery (and in ME3 with Kaidan as a male Shep, we were supposed to be bros man, you even told me about your crush in the biotic academy in ME1!!!!4 ).

I've only palyed as male Hawke, but Merril and Fenris did not give away their orientation to Mike Hawke. I only know they swing both ways because I'm on this forums. I wonder if you play as a femHawke Anders mentions his.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

That's right. This characters are not "sexually available" to the player. Therefore there is no such things as every characters are sexually available to the player in the first Witcher. Once again, Gaider is wrong.

He didn't say that every character was sexually available.

No? He said, "Take the first Witcher game, for instance— I enjoyed many things about that game, but the collectible sex card mechanic? Ultimately it rendered every female character in the game into a puzzle to be solved. What do I do to sleep with them?"

Can you sleep with this character? Does this character equote to every female characters as well?
 

[Dutchess]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

That awkward moment when you can't have a personal blog without every second article getting dragged onto a public forum and being interpreted in whatever way best suits a person's personal agenda. >.>

That's because he doesn't blog about his cats but about the work he does for games and about the "toxic" BSN. 


Ontopic: I haven't read any big revelations in this blog. He wants to try different romances. Okay. The only thing I've found out is that Gaider fails to see the various, very valid reasons why the opportunities for sexual encounters in The Witcher are handled the way they are. I would have expected a bit more fantasy from a writer, but he insists on looking at it from the perspective of Bioware romances, and then it makes little sense indeed. If you want to make a fair comparison in that case you have to look at Triss and Shani in the game.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

renjility wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

That awkward moment when you can't have a personal blog without every second article getting dragged onto a public forum and being interpreted in whatever way best suits a person's personal agenda. >.>

That's because he doesn't blog about his cats but about the work he does for games and about the "toxic" BSN. 


Ontopic: I haven't read any big revelations in this blog. He wants to try different romances. Okay. The only thing I've found out is that Gaider fails to see the various, very valid reasons why the opportunities for sexual encounters in The Witcher are handled the way they are. I would have expected a bit more fantasy from a writer, but he insists on looking at it from the perspective of Bioware romances, and then it makes little sense indeed. If you want to make a fair comparison in that case you have to look at Triss and Shani in the game.

Finally someone that understands. Thank you.

[Battlebloodmage]

Khayness wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Why the **** does it bother people that romanceble characters are bisexual? They are still the same freaking characters whether gay or straight! It's not like Anders walks around with a carrier purse and wears a pink scarf when Male Hawke is around; yet when Female Hawke is there, he's ripped as **** and spends most of his day doing squats in his clinic -.-

They are interesting characters. Period. Bi, straight or gay, the DA team writes them all the same -.-

Your knowledge of them being Bisexual is sometimes meta, no actual dialogue indicates their orientation. This can lead to flip of the coin sexuality; you play as a male, females are straight, males are homosexual, you play as a female, males are hetero, girls are all yuri over you!

It's bad writing. Leliana and Zevran was well done in DA:O, ninjamance aside, but in DA2 it got slippery (and in ME3 with Kaidan as a male Shep, we were supposed to be bros man, you even told me about your crush in the biotic academy in ME1!!!!4 ).

I've only palyed as male Hawke, but Merril and Fenris did not give away their orientation to Mike Hawke. I only know they swing both ways because I'm on this forums. I wonder if you play as a femHawke Anders mentions his.

Like you said, it's all meta knowlege. Anders wouldn't mention his relationship with Karl unless you're a male. The game lets you flirt with almost every companion, but only 5 of them preciprocate. Just because you can flirt doesn't mean you can succeed. Just because a person doesn't mention he likes guys right away don't mean that he doesn't like guy. Just because he doesn't mention about his preference doesn't mean that Kaidan isn't bi. You can still be bros with him. I don't see why sexual orientation has anything to do with whether you can be bros with them.

[Plaintiff]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Khayness wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Why the **** does it bother people that romanceble characters are bisexual? They are still the same freaking characters whether gay or straight! It's not like Anders walks around with a carrier purse and wears a pink scarf when Male Hawke is around; yet when Female Hawke is there, he's ripped as **** and spends most of his day doing squats in his clinic -.-

They are interesting characters. Period. Bi, straight or gay, the DA team writes them all the same -.-

Your knowledge of them being Bisexual is sometimes meta, no actual dialogue indicates their orientation. This can lead to flip of the coin sexuality; you play as a male, females are straight, males are homosexual, you play as a female, males are hetero, girls are all yuri over you!

It's bad writing. Leliana and Zevran was well done in DA:O, ninjamance aside, but in DA2 it got slippery (and in ME3 with Kaidan as a male Shep, we were supposed to be bros man, you even told me about your crush in the biotic academy in ME1!!!!4 ).

I've only palyed as male Hawke, but Merril and Fenris did not give away their orientation to Mike Hawke. I only know they swing both ways because I'm on this forums. I wonder if you play as a femHawke Anders mentions his.

Like you said, it's all meta knowlege. Anders wouldn't mention his relationship with Karl unless you're a male. The game lets you flirt with almost every companion, but only 5 of them preciprocate. Just because you can flirt doesn't mean you can succeed. Just because a person doesn't mention he likes guys right away don't mean that he doesn't like guy. Just because he doesn't mention about his preference doesn't mean that Kaidan isn't bi. You can still be bros with him. I don't see why sexual orientation has anything to do with whether you can be bros with them.

Are you crazy? Straight men can't be friends with gays or bis! It's like being friends with a woman! Impossible!

[Wulfram]

Khayness wrote...

Your knowledge of them being Bisexual is sometimes meta, no actual dialogue indicates their orientation. This can lead to flip of the coin sexuality; you play as a male, females are straight, males are homosexual, you play as a female, males are hetero, girls are all yuri over you!

All of them have indications that they're interested in people of the opposite sex, no matter what sex your Hawke is.  And of course Isabela is obviously always bisexual.

Modifié par Wulfram, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:30 .

[Khayness]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Just because he doesn't mention about his preference doesn't mean that Kaidan isn't bi. You can still be bros with him. I don't see why sexual orientation has anything to do with whether you can be bros with them.

I don't like it because their sudden sexuality seems like an asspull to me, the writers giving in to the fan demand and taking the easy way out to make everyone swing both ways to avoid limited options, instead of creating characters with well rounded orientation (still going to cite Leliana and Zevran).

Mr. Gaider said it before many times that making every option avaliable was their main motivation for this in DA2, after the outcries that Alistar was restricted to the female Warden. In my eyes it just cheapens the writing.

But this is getting OFF, and I hate nothing more than to argue about romances on the BSN.

[Herr Uhl]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

That's right. This characters are not "sexually available" to the player. Therefore there is no such things as every characters are sexually available to the player in the first Witcher. Once again, Gaider is wrong.

He didn't say that every character was sexually available.

No? He said, "Take the first Witcher game, for instance— I enjoyed many things about that game, but the collectible sex card mechanic? Ultimately it rendered every female character in the game into a puzzle to be solved. What do I do to sleep with them?"

That is the experience he got from the mechanic. And not without reason, Carmen comes up around halfway into the game.

Can you sleep with this character? Does this character equote to every female characters as well? 

I'm not sure if you're dense.

[Plaintiff]

Khayness wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Just because he doesn't mention about his preference doesn't mean that Kaidan isn't bi. You can still be bros with him. I don't see why sexual orientation has anything to do with whether you can be bros with them.

I don't like it because their sudden sexuality seems like an asspull to me, the writers giving in to the fan demand and taking the easy way out to make everyone swing both ways to avoid limited options, instead of creating characters with well rounded orientation (still going to cite Leliana and Zevran).

Mr. Gaider said it before many times that making every option avaliable was their main motivation for this in DA2, after the outcries that Alistar was restricted to the female Warden. In my eyes it just cheapens the writing.

But this is getting OFF, and I hate nothing more than to argue about romances on the BSN.

How does one determine if an orientation is "well-rounded"? I ask purely out of my own personal curiosity.

[Battlebloodmage]

Khayness wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Just because he doesn't mention about his preference doesn't mean that Kaidan isn't bi. You can still be bros with him. I don't see why sexual orientation has anything to do with whether you can be bros with them.

I don't like it because their sudden sexuality seems like an asspull to me, the writers giving in to the fan demand and taking the easy way out to make everyone swing both ways to avoid limited options, instead of creating characters with well rounded orientation (still going to cite Leliana and Zevran).

Mr. Gaider said it before many times that making every option avaliable was their main motivation for this in DA2, after the outcries that Alistar was restricted to the female Warden. In my eyes it just cheapens the writing.

But this is getting OFF, and I hate nothing more than to argue about romances on the BSN.

The issue is not about making every option available, it's about fairness. They don't have enough resources to give people at least 2 options to choose from. I guess you do have a point, they should go back to the DAO formula and make 2 bis and 2 gays for each gender in the next game.

[batlin]

Dhiro wrote...

No, but giving you a card everytime you have sex with them and never having most of them appearing again sounds pretty objectifying to me.

Except that wasn't the question posed to him. He brought up Witcher as an example of why he did not want to make every character romanceable, and equated making every character romanceable to how Witcher objectifies its romanceable characters.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

That's right. This characters are not "sexually available" to the player. Therefore there is no such things as every characters are sexually available to the player in the first Witcher. Once again, Gaider is wrong.

He didn't say that every character was sexually available.

No? He said, "Take the first Witcher game, for instance— I enjoyed many things about that game, but the collectible sex card mechanic? Ultimately it rendered every female character in the game into a puzzle to be solved. What do I do to sleep with them?"

That is the experience he got from the mechanic. And not without reason, Carmen comes up around halfway into the game.

Can you sleep with this character? Does this character equote to every female characters as well? 

I'm not sure if you're dense.

Well, he's wrong. And he better pay more attention to the game's detail before making unfair comparison and false statement about other games. 

[Khayness]

Plaintiff wrote...

How does one determine if an orientation is "well-rounded"? I ask purely out of my own personal curiosity.

Planned from the get-go, integral part of the character. Like how Zevran and Leliana had a backstory in which it was pretty important. One being a professional assassin and other being a seductress/spy.

Not shoehorned in because of fan demand.

[Plaintiff]

Khayness wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

How does one determine if an orientation is "well-rounded"? I ask purely out of my own personal curiosity.

Planned from the get-go, integral part of the character. Like how Zevran and Leliana had a backstory in which it was pretty important. One being a professional assassin and other being a seductress/spy.

Not shoehorned in because of fan demand.

I see.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

batlin wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

No, but giving you a card everytime you have sex with them and never having most of them appearing again sounds pretty objectifying to me.

Except that wasn't the question posed to him. He brought up Witcher as an example of why he did not want to make every character romanceable, and equated making every character romanceable to how Witcher objectifies its romanceable characters.

Yup, and even so, he fail to see that not every companions is romanceable in the Witcher series, - which render his reasoning a moot point. 

[Rawgrim]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Somehow all these arguments essentially about people disliking ghey stuffs in the game.

I do belive most people have problems with every love interest being bi\\switching sexuality just to cater to the PC`s choice of gender. I don`t remember anyone complaining about Wade + Herren in the first game.

[Harle Cerulean]

Khayness wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

How does one determine if an orientation is "well-rounded"? I ask purely out of my own personal curiosity.

Planned from the get-go, integral part of the character. Like how Zevran and Leliana had a backstory in which it was pretty important. One being a professional assassin and other being a seductress/spy.

Not shoehorned in because of fan demand.

 

So in your opinion, people are only allowed to be gay/bi if they have a backstory that demands it in a professional capacity?  People can't be gay or bi 'because that's what they are?

[Dutchess]

Dhiro wrote...

No, but giving you a card everytime you have sex with them and never having most of them appearing again sounds pretty objectifying to me.

Sigh. You're not "given" a sex card. They don't appear in your inventory. You get a journal entry about the woman you've slept with describing the person or the social class they represent, but the picture next to that is usually one of the in-game model, not the "sex card" you got to see for five seconds. The card is simply a substitute for a sex scene.

[PinkysPain]

Witcher 1 sexual exploits were too comical to take seriously for me as objectifying women.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 20 janvier 2013 - 12:05 .

[CrystaJ]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

CrystaJ wrote...

I'm still bitter that Aveline chose Donnic over me. ;_;

In all seriousness, DAO shouldn't be a dating sim, so I'm glad not everyone will want into my sexy hero pants.

Wow DAO again?  The attacks on DAO is unbelievable. 

And yet that's exactly what happen in DA 2. Everyone aka every romanceable followers, will end up into your hero's sexy pants as long as you clicked the heart icons. I haven't see a heart icon or flirt option would result in disapproval. Yet I could see a lot of disapproval coming from Morrigan, if you pick the wrong dialogues.  

Meh. I just typed DAO instead of DA:I on accident. DAO/2 already happened.

Though I find your defensiveness amusing.

[Khayness]

Harle Cerulean wrote...

So in your opinion, people are only allowed to be gay/bi if they have a backstory that demands it in a professional capacity?  People can't be gay or bi 'because that's what they are?

Oh I knew this thread is going to be amusing.

Who the Hell cares about what people are like or not?

I'm talking about Dragon Age characters. And it makes sense to them if they are written as the writers want to, not because how we the fans want them to.

[Plaintiff]

Rawgrim wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

Somehow all these arguments essentially about people disliking ghey stuffs in the game.

I do belive most people have problems with every love interest being biswitching sexuality just to cater to the PC`s choice of gender. I don`t remember anyone complaining about Wade + Herren in the first game.

Wade and Herren were never shown to be gay in the game, that is metaknowledge due to an announcement by David Gaider, well after the game came out. So, technically, this declaration was as much of a retcon as Anders' ever was.

The reason people don't **** about Wade and Herren being officially labelled as gay is because they are hypocritical bigots. Nobody cares that Wade and Herren are gay, because the player only interacts with them briefly, if at all, and they acted so "obviously"  gay that being told explicitly so later was not any sort of revelation.

People are only upset about Anders being "retconned" because he was their "bro". They don't want to even be pretend friends now that he's been revealed to be a bisexual male. They hate Anders now, because of this revelation. They hate it because it suggests that people who are not obviously gay can sometimes be gay, and that scares the hell out of them. Because they are stupid bigots.

Harle Cerulean wrote...

So in your opinion, people are only allowed to be gay/bi if they have a backstory that demands it in a professional capacity?  People can't be gay or bi 'because that's what they are?

Nope. As a homosexual, I should know. My life revolves entirely around my love for dick; it's intertwined into every single aspect of my life.

The stereotypically fey Wade and stereotypically catty Herren are deep and well-rounded, despite being bit characters with no secondary character traits, because their homosexuality was apparently planned from the beginning, despite never being explicitly stated in-game.

Anders' tragic backstory with Karl and his passionate romance with maleHawke are shallow pandering, because he didn't mention being gay the very first time we saw him, and didn't have the decency to mince around, lisping his spells at the Darkspawn.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 20 janvier 2013 - 12:26 .

[Plaintiff]

Khayness wrote...

Harle Cerulean wrote...

So in your opinion, people are only allowed to be gay/bi if they have a backstory that demands it in a professional capacity?  People can't be gay or bi 'because that's what they are?

Oh I knew this thread is going to be amusing.

Who the Hell cares about what people are like or not?

I'm talking about Dragon Age characters. And it makes sense to them if they are written as the writers want to, not because how we the fans want them to.

And how do you know the writers didn't intend Anders to be bisexual from the beginning? How can you prove that it was due to fan demand and not their initial intention?