270 réponses à ce sujet

[Insaner Robot]

 

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

That's what the nitpicking is about. Each game has their own non romanceable companions, and somehow Gaider miss that point. Instead of making fair comparison with The Witcher's party members, he goes on arguing A one night stand with non-romanceable NPC.   

You do realise he was using the card mechanic of The Witcher as an example only right? He wasn't complaining about how it's a terrible game or it has awful charactersor even that Geralt could sleep with many women, he liked the game just not the card mechanic.


"Take the first Witcher game, for instance— I enjoyed many things about that game, but the collectible sex card mechanic? Ultimately it rendered every female character in the game into a puzzle to be solved."

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Well then let's twist Gaider's, "Every female character in the game" with "Every character in the game" to be fair. Can you romance Eskel or Grandma? Nope you still cant. Can you have sex with any prostitue? Yes you can. It's the same with DA 2. See?

You shouldn't twist a statement.

[The Hierophant]

On the flipside you collect achievements/trophies for bedding Alistair, Leliana, Morrigan, and Zevran. IIRC they only activate once you sleep with the companion.

[Renmiri1]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

Completely agree with Gaider. Romances are a mini-game at best, and the amount of people obsessing over them is frightening.

I would rather they took them out completely and focus on putting together a decent story. Perhaps ME3 would have had a better ending if they hadn't spent quite so much time catering to every pervert's wishes.

1) They didn't. Pretty much all ME2 romances were shafted

2) Multiplayer sapped resources

3) Day 1 dlc sapped resources

4) Romances are part of a decent story and there is absolutely no proof they impact the rest of the game

5) Perverts ? You have heard of the Internets haven't you ? If you think the stuff in ME3 is perverted then I think you are living a very sheltered life or your mom shouldn't have let you play a mature game.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Insaner Robot wrote...

 

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

That's what the nitpicking is about. Each game has their own non romanceable companions, and somehow Gaider miss that point. Instead of making fair comparison with The Witcher's party members, he goes on arguing A one night stand with non-romanceable NPC.   

You do realise he was using the card mechanic of The Witcher as an example only right? He wasn't complaining about how it's a terrible game or it has awful charactersor even that Geralt could sleep with many women, he liked the game just not the card mechanic.

"Take the first Witcher game, for instance— I enjoyed many things about that game, but the collectible sex card mechanic? Ultimately it rendered every female character in the game into a puzzle to be solved."

The question was about making every companions romanceable. And not about making every female NPC in the game a collection of sex cards. Therefore, addressing the Witcher's sex card mechanic is a moot point as it's irrelevant to the question.
 

Insaner Robot wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Well then let's twist Gaider's, "Every female character in the game" with "Every character in the game" to be fair. Can you romance Eskel or Grandma? Nope you still cant. Can you have sex with any prostitue? Yes you can. It's the same with DA 2. See?

You shouldn't twist a statement.

I shouldn't. You should read the post I was replying to.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Lilaeth wrote...

In RL, everyone is potentially romanceable to everyone else. 

No they're not. Not that this stops people thinking that way.

[Insaner Robot]

The Hierophant wrote...

On the flipside you collect achievements/trophies for bedding Alistair, Leliana, Morrigan, and Zevran. IIRC they only activate once you sleep with the companion.

Good point though as I've only played Dragon Age on PC I've never had those. But I don't think achievements or trophies are really a game mechanic, their more of a feature of the consoles themselves (the PS3 didn't even have them at launch) though granted each game has different names for them.

[Russalka]

I have noticed that those who strongly oppose romance, quite similarly to the gushing fans, tend to sometimes over-exaggerate just how prevalent relationship plot lines are in the game.

You know, with all the rather far-fetched comparisons to dating sims and companions supposedly being shallow and cheap because of there being an option to pursue relationships with them regardless of the player gender...

[Sylvanpyxie]

No they're not.

Are you suuuuure? *Waggles eyebrows*

4) Romances are part of a decent story and there is absolutely no proof they impact the rest of the game

Actually, a lot of people that i've spoken with feel as though romantic content overshadows the personality of a character. Not to say that everyone whose anti-romance has a point (or shares this point) and it should be excluded from the game, but I can understand why so many people believe it has an impact, because it really can damage a Player's perception of characters.

I had that exact problem with Alistair, I'm sure I would have loved him as a character - If he hadn't be painted so blatantly as a potential love interest. My interest in him plummeted when he began leering at me in friendly conversation before I barely knew anything about his character.

Doesn't make me against romance, and i'm not saying everybody had the same problem I did, but I do try to understand the negatives of romantic content. Not least of which, for me personally, is overbearing romantic content that can damage my perception of a character or, in more dramatic cases blind me to any characterization at all.

Different folks? Different strokes.

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:14 .

[Renmiri1]

I meant more in the sense of dollars and cents, i.e. you get romance you lose a dungeon or elven PC are shelved.

[demont0]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
The question was about making every companions romanceable. And not about making every female NPC in the game a collection of sex cards. Therefore, addressing the Witcher's sex card mechanic is a moot point as it's irrelevant to the question.
 .

Gaidar was using the sex cards in Witcher, as an example of a game mechanic, that turns the women of the game into objectifiable sex objects. A puzzle to be solved, was Gaidar's words here.
This is something he doesn't want for future DA games, and he uses the Witcher sex cards thing as an example, because he feels that making every companion romancable in a DA game, ultimately leads to an objectification of those characters, which was bad for Witcher with the sex cards, and would be bad for DA.

Modifié par demont0, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:20 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

So Carmen isn't attractive? And even better because Carmen is a prostitue. Guess what? Geralt couldn't have sex with her. Seriously, double standard view is still double standard view. Making unfair comparison doesn't make your statement true. 

100% agree, the arguement can be made that the Brothel objectify' s men/gay/bi and isnt for straight male' s at all considering the fact that you have to sleep with Jethann to access the Brothel' s service' s. Nobody' s complaining about that, It' s not that big of deal..It' s optional content..but everyone want' s to slam The Witcher. pssh gtfoh.

Modifié par FreshIstay, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:29 .

[Sacred_Fantasy]

demont0 wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...
The question was about making every companions romanceable. And not about making every female NPC in the game a collection of sex cards. Therefore, addressing the Witcher's sex card mechanic is a moot point as it's irrelevant to the question.
 .

Wow, people love to pull statements out of context around here don't they?
Gaidar was using the sex cards in Witcher, as an example of a game mechanic, that turns the women of the game into objectifiable sex objects. A puzzle to be solved, was Gaidar's words here.
This is something he doesn't want for future DA games, and he uses the Witcher sex cards thing as an example, because he feels that making every companion romancable in a DA game, ultimately leads to an objectification of those characters, which was bad for Witcher with the sex cards, and would be bad for DA.

So clicking the heart icons and sex with every "sexually available" romanceable companions is fine but sex card mechanics with the NPC is not? He may as well argue the fade-to-black juvenile sex cutscene with the prostitue in DA 2's brothel.     

[AlexanderCousland]

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

So Carmen isn't attractive? And even better because Carmen is a prostitue. Guess what? Geralt couldn't have sex with her. Seriously, double standard view is still double standard view. Making unfair comparison doesn't make your statement true. 

100% agree, the arguement can be made that the Brothel objectify' s men/gay/bi and isnt for straight male' s at all considering the fact that you have to sleep with Jethann to access the Brothel' s service' s. Nobody' s complaining about that, It' s not that big of deal..It' s optional content..but everyone want' s to slam The Witcher. pssh gtfoh.

and a repost so you get the point.

Modifié par FreshIstay, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:31 .

[Battlebloodmage]

FreshIstay wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

So Carmen isn't attractive? And even better because Carmen is a prostitue. Guess what? Geralt couldn't have sex with her. Seriously, double standard view is still double standard view. Making unfair comparison doesn't make your statement true. 

100% agree, the arguement can be made that the Brothel objectify' s men/gay/bi and isnt for straight male' s at all considering the fact that you have to sleep with Jethann to access the Brothel' s service' s. Nobody' s complaining about that, It' s not that big of deal..It' s optional content..but everyone want' s to slam The Witcher. pssh gtfoh.

Actually, you don't have to sleep with him.

Modifié par Battlebloodmage, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:34 .

[Beliar86]

I would be one that advocates for no romances.

Not for that BS that all of us that think that way are sexists or whatever.

I'm just not attracted to god damned pixels, and I know time and money came from things like plot or gameplay to put that crap in.

But I know most people like them, and dragon age isn't advertised as a niche game, and they would be stupid to suddenly cut a selling point.

Still though, you guys need to go watch cartoon porn or something. If you need connection, demand story from those guys;)

That way one day I will have a game perfectly tailored to me

...or not, but I can dream

[AlexanderCousland]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

So Carmen isn't attractive? And even better because Carmen is a prostitue. Guess what? Geralt couldn't have sex with her. Seriously, double standard view is still double standard view. Making unfair comparison doesn't make your statement true. 

100% agree, the arguement can be made that the Brothel objectify' s men/gay/bi and isnt for straight male' s at all considering the fact that you have to sleep with Jethann to access the Brothel' s service' s. Nobody' s complaining about that, It' s not that big of deal..It' s optional content..but everyone want' s to slam The Witcher. pssh gtfoh.

Actually, you don't have to sleep with anyone if you don't want to at the brothel.

and you dont have to sleep with prostitutes in the Witcher.

[Russalka]

I think the problem lies more on the fact that only a single gender is generally subjected to this treatment. The Dragon Age series has been fairly equal with any sexualisation or objectification.

I think The Witcher should have had cards pop up with Geralt being all vulnerable and naked as well.

[Battlebloodmage]

FreshIstay wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

So Carmen isn't attractive? And even better because Carmen is a prostitue. Guess what? Geralt couldn't have sex with her. Seriously, double standard view is still double standard view. Making unfair comparison doesn't make your statement true. 

100% agree, the arguement can be made that the Brothel objectify' s men/gay/bi and isnt for straight male' s at all considering the fact that you have to sleep with Jethann to access the Brothel' s service' s. Nobody' s complaining about that, It' s not that big of deal..It' s optional content..but everyone want' s to slam The Witcher. pssh gtfoh.

Actually, you don't have to sleep with anyone if you don't want to at the brothel.

and you dont have to sleep with prostitutes in the Witcher.

What does that have to do with Jethann being mandatory? You don't see any man doing sexy pose appearing on cards. I'm sure the problem David Gaider has with the mechanic is that collecting cards with nude women in sexy poses are objectifying. The game is like a straight man's fantasy becomes reality. I wonder what the other people who are not straight men think about the game.

[AlexanderCousland]

Russalka wrote...

I think the problem lies more on the fact that only a single gender is generally subjected to this treatment. The Dragon Age series has been fairly equal with any sexualisation or objectification.

I think The Witcher should have had cards pop up with Geralt being all vulnerable and naked as well.

Brothel' s mostly consist of women, its the worlds oldest profession. Geralt was having sex too, was he objectified?
I beleive Brothel' s prey on Male weakness anyway, Giving your earnings for a moment a pleasure with a Woman who cares nothing for you. The only people empowered in Strip Clubs or Brothel' s are Women IMHO. DA2 brothel' s arent for Men who consider themselves straight, just as Witcher doesnt have Brothel' s for gay people. 

[Sacred_Fantasy]

Battlebloodmage wrote...
What does that have to do with Jethann being mandatory? You don't see any man doing sexy pose appearing on cards. I'm sure the problem David Gaider has with the mechanic is that collecting cards with nude women in sexy poses are objectifying. The game is like a straight man's fantasy becomes reality. I wonder what the other people who are not straight men think about the game. 

Pretend to be straight men or stay away?

[Battlebloodmage]

FreshIstay wrote...

Russalka wrote...

I think the problem lies more on the fact that only a single gender is generally subjected to this treatment. The Dragon Age series has been fairly equal with any sexualisation or objectification.

I think The Witcher should have had cards pop up with Geralt being all vulnerable and naked as well.

Brothel' s mostly consist of women, its the worlds oldest profession. Geralt was having sex too, was he objectified?
I beleive Brothel' s prey on Male weakness anyway, Giving your earnings for a moment a pleasure with a Woman who cares nothing for you. The only people empowered in Strip Clubs or Brothel' s are Women IMHO. DA2 brothel' s arent for Men who consider themselves straight, just as Witcher doesnt have Brothel' s for gay people. 

You're controlling him, why would you be objectified? Talk to me when they have Geralt doing sexy nude pose/ DA2 brothels are for everyone, they have both genders in it.

[spirosz]

I'd rather Bioware cut out specific romances if they're not going to go out of their way to close an arc in a meaningful way. From a ME3 perspective, you can't expect every character to be given resources to reach the "Liara" level of detail in a romance scene, or arc (even if her arc wasn't that great to begin with).

If Bioware were to add quality to a smaller amount of romances, instead of quantity (to appeal to to everyone), then I think they would be on the right path to really perfecting those type of arcs and giving the detail that they deserve. Even if I don't get a "Jack" for my Shepard, I would of been fine because realistically, I knew her arc wasn't going to get what it deserved because of resources and priority budget.  

And I know this might be asking much, but if you're going to switch writers for a specific character, try to at least have notes from the original writer to make it consistent (Miranda comes to mind, IMO). 

Modifié par spirosz, 21 janvier 2013 - 12:12 .

[AlexanderCousland]

Battlebloodmage wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Russalka wrote...

I think the problem lies more on the fact that only a single gender is generally subjected to this treatment. The Dragon Age series has been fairly equal with any sexualisation or objectification.

I think The Witcher should have had cards pop up with Geralt being all vulnerable and naked as well.

Brothel' s mostly consist of women, its the worlds oldest profession. Geralt was having sex too, was he objectified?
I beleive Brothel' s prey on Male weakness anyway, Giving your earnings for a moment a pleasure with a Woman who cares nothing for you. The only people empowered in Strip Clubs or Brothel' s are Women IMHO. DA2 brothel' s arent for Men who consider themselves straight, just as Witcher doesnt have Brothel' s for gay people. 

You're controlling him, why would you be objectified? Talk to me when they have Geralt doing sexy nude pose/ DA2 brothels are for everyone, they have both genders in it.

DA2 brothel isn' t for Straight Males, you have to be gay to use it.

[Battlebloodmage]

FreshIstay wrote...

Battlebloodmage wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Russalka wrote...

I think the problem lies more on the fact that only a single gender is generally subjected to this treatment. The Dragon Age series has been fairly equal with any sexualisation or objectification.

I think The Witcher should have had cards pop up with Geralt being all vulnerable and naked as well.

Brothel' s mostly consist of women, its the worlds oldest profession. Geralt was having sex too, was he objectified?
I beleive Brothel' s prey on Male weakness anyway, Giving your earnings for a moment a pleasure with a Woman who cares nothing for you. The only people empowered in Strip Clubs or Brothel' s are Women IMHO. DA2 brothel' s arent for Men who consider themselves straight, just as Witcher doesnt have Brothel' s for gay people. 

You're controlling him, why would you be objectified? Talk to me when they have Geralt doing sexy nude pose/ DA2 brothels are for everyone, they have both genders in it.

DA2 brothel isn' t for Straight Males, you have to be gay to use it.

It's gay to have sex with women?