No, for me it is not weird.me308f1cd5c wrote...
I have noticed that some players intentionally play characters who are of the opposite sex of them.
What do you think about this?
Is it weird?
shamus mcfitzy wrote...
wirelesstkd wrote...
shamus mcfitzy wrote...
Obviously, the Mass Effect games are better than most at gender equality, but there's even the antiquated gender roles in the character choices for multiplayer. Consider the male N7 characters: the hardy soldier; the Paladin, who literally has a shield, representing the protector role; and the Slayer, who, as a vanguard, Charges into battle (although he's admittedly lithe). Even the most durable-looking female N7, the Demolisher, has a power meant to support her teammates and grenades that allow her to stay out of the thick of battle. Admittedly, the close-quarter nature of the Fury doesn't fit entirely with my point, but even she is a classic example of female characters needing "magic" to protect themselves.
I think that's a bit of a stretch... as you said, the Fury and the Slayer are the same type of characters... magic users who get up close to confront the enemy. If you want to talk about actually "charging" in to battle, the Shadow, a female, can do this, too. The Paladin is a protector, yes, but could just as easily have been a female character if the genders hadn't been split 3 and 3 (consider the Asari Justicar's defesnive bubble, or the Turian female in Single Player with that protection thing). The Demolisher, though, is where your argument really falls apart. This character should, by the stereotype of it, be a guy. I actually think this was a very conscious choice by the design team to make it a female in order to subvert the stereotypes. She's not supplying grenades to her team - she's making more grenades for herself. She's going to throw grenades way faster than her pylon will supply them.
Heck - the Slayer has a freakin' skirt!I applaud the team on really thinking outside gender roles on that DLC...
I really think the Demolisher is my best example. I didn't make it clear at all, but my point isn't that Bioware didn't try to eschew gender roles and typical portrayals; they clearly did make an effort with the choice of giving the Demolisher a bulked-up model and making it a non-powers class (grenades aren't classic powers and weren't even powers in ME1, were they?). My point is that even the Demolisher relies on her grenades, which can put her further from battle, and doesn't have a damage-reducing power like the other "weapons classes". I think if the Bioware team made the Destroyer a female, then that would've been a crystal clear effort to break down the gender stereotypes.
The imagery of the Paladin's shield is important I think, considering the classic male-warrior and female-ranged roles in video games, although the Asari Justicar is a good example of a "female" protector character (am I the only one that gets womb imagery from the bubble, though? Yes? OK, sorry). The Shadow relies somewhat on stealth to get up close to enemies; there is definitely a difference between her close quarters combat and the other melee-oriented characters.
The Slayer is definitely problematic, though
wirelesstkd wrote...
shamus mcfitzy wrote...
wirelesstkd wrote...
shamus mcfitzy wrote...
Obviously, the Mass Effect games are better than most at gender equality, but there's even the antiquated gender roles in the character choices for multiplayer. Consider the male N7 characters: the hardy soldier; the Paladin, who literally has a shield, representing the protector role; and the Slayer, who, as a vanguard, Charges into battle (although he's admittedly lithe). Even the most durable-looking female N7, the Demolisher, has a power meant to support her teammates and grenades that allow her to stay out of the thick of battle. Admittedly, the close-quarter nature of the Fury doesn't fit entirely with my point, but even she is a classic example of female characters needing "magic" to protect themselves.
I think that's a bit of a stretch... as you said, the Fury and the Slayer are the same type of characters... magic users who get up close to confront the enemy. If you want to talk about actually "charging" in to battle, the Shadow, a female, can do this, too. The Paladin is a protector, yes, but could just as easily have been a female character if the genders hadn't been split 3 and 3 (consider the Asari Justicar's defesnive bubble, or the Turian female in Single Player with that protection thing). The Demolisher, though, is where your argument really falls apart. This character should, by the stereotype of it, be a guy. I actually think this was a very conscious choice by the design team to make it a female in order to subvert the stereotypes. She's not supplying grenades to her team - she's making more grenades for herself. She's going to throw grenades way faster than her pylon will supply them.
Heck - the Slayer has a freakin' skirt!
I really think the Demolisher is my best example. I didn't make it clear at all, but my point isn't that Bioware didn't try to eschew gender roles and typical portrayals; they clearly did make an effort with the choice of giving the Demolisher a bulked-up model and making it a non-powers class (grenades aren't classic powers and weren't even powers in ME1, were they?). My point is that even the Demolisher relies on her grenades, which can put her further from battle, and doesn't have a damage-reducing power like the other "weapons classes". I think if the Bioware team made the Destroyer a female, then that would've been a crystal clear effort to break down the gender stereotypes.
The imagery of the Paladin's shield is important I think, considering the classic male-warrior and female-ranged roles in video games, although the Asari Justicar is a good example of a "female" protector character (am I the only one that gets womb imagery from the bubble, though? Yes? OK, sorry). The Shadow relies somewhat on stealth to get up close to enemies; there is definitely a difference between her close quarters combat and the other melee-oriented characters.
The Slayer is definitely problematic, though
Conceptually, the Shadow is using stealth to sneak in to a situation, but practically she is doing the same exact thing as a vanguard. Yes, if you take a specific evolution of Cloak (evolution six, I might add), you can remain cloaked and escape after your strike, but that's only one way to play her. A lot of people (especially if you're leveling her up from one) will not play it that way, instead getting up close and then dealing with being behind enemy lines, so to speak. With regard to meleeing, IMO, she's one of the best melee infiltrators we have right now (the Ghost and the Geth being the other two). Besides, if you draw a line with Vanguards, you've still got the Asari (in addition, of course, to the vanilla human).
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on the Demolisher, though. I see her as a very aggressive character that subverts the gender role. You can surely play her from a distance (just like you can play the Human Soldier as a sniper, from a distance), but you don't have to. Yes, they could have gone further with the Destroyer, but they didn't have to
darkblade wrote...
I don't see a human female being any heavy frontline class because in the real world human females aren't in frontline combat. That's just a true to life fact its actually pretty well mirrored in ME universe. Even though we see female soldiers they probably are in hunter seeker squads. Ash is a perfect example of this.
darkblade wrote...
in the real world
darkblade wrote...
in the real world
darkblade wrote...
in the real world
darkblade wrote...
in the real world
darkblade wrote...
in the real world
Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
I don't see a human female being any heavy frontline class because in the real world human females aren't in frontline combat. That's just a true to life fact its actually pretty well mirrored in ME universe. Even though we see female soldiers they probably are in hunter seeker squads. Ash is a perfect example of this.darkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real world
The real world. This is a science fiction game. If it were a videogame set in WWII and they meant to make it historically accurate, then no problem. But Mass Effect is a science fiction game.
May I remind you that the squishiest race in the game, the Drell, has one Vanguard? Or the Volus? Or the Asari?
And if you throw the "they has bioticks to balance out their physical inferioriteee!!!!!" argument, may I remind you that this is a science fiction game? And that, following the same logic, there could be female soldiers using potent mass effect shield generators and armored suits to balance out their physical inferiority?
Modifié par darkblade, 20 janvier 2013 - 06:01 .
darkblade wrote...
Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
I don't see a human female being any heavy frontline class because in the real world human females aren't in frontline combat. That's just a true to life fact its actually pretty well mirrored in ME universe. Even though we see female soldiers they probably are in hunter seeker squads. Ash is a perfect example of this.darkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real world
The real world. This is a science fiction game. If it were a videogame set in WWII and they meant to make it historically accurate, then no problem. But Mass Effect is a science fiction game.
May I remind you that the squishiest race in the game, the Drell, has one Vanguard? Or the Volus? Or the Asari?
And if you throw the "they has bioticks to balance out their physical inferioriteee!!!!!" argument, may I remind you that this is a science fiction game? And that, following the same logic, there could be female soldiers using potent mass effect shield generators and armored suits to balance out their physical inferiority?
Your argument is completely moot.
Real world or not doesn't matter since im only talking about humans and we haven't changed much in ME's universe. Future armor and weapons/ space magic don't make up for the things that women, in general lack. Those are the things that keep them from frontline combat.
And star red herring tangents by bringing in alien races
darkblade wrote...
Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
I don't see a human female being any heavy frontline class because in the real world human females aren't in frontline combat. That's just a true to life fact its actually pretty well mirrored in ME universe. Even though we see female soldiers they probably are in hunter seeker squads. Ash is a perfect example of this.darkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real world
The real world. This is a science fiction game. If it were a videogame set in WWII and they meant to make it historically accurate, then no problem. But Mass Effect is a science fiction game.
May I remind you that the squishiest race in the game, the Drell, has one Vanguard? Or the Volus? Or the Asari?
And if you throw the "they has bioticks to balance out their physical inferioriteee!!!!!" argument, may I remind you that this is a science fiction game? And that, following the same logic, there could be female soldiers using potent mass effect shield generators and armored suits to balance out their physical inferiority?
Your argument is completely moot.
Real world or not doesn't matter since im only talking about humans and we haven't changed much in ME's universe. Future armor and weapons/ space magic don't make up for the things that women, in general lack. Those are the things that keep them from frontline combat.
And star red herring tangents by bringing in alien races, not only is squishyness a game mechanic, but their cultures are different. Not to mention that races like volus are in the game as fan service. They don't fight intergalatic wars.
Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
I don't see a human female being any heavy frontline class because in the real world human females aren't in frontline combat. That's just a true to life fact its actually pretty well mirrored in ME universe. Even though we see female soldiers they probably are in hunter seeker squads. Ash is a perfect example of this.darkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real world
The real world. This is a science fiction game. If it were a videogame set in WWII and they meant to make it historically accurate, then no problem. But Mass Effect is a science fiction game.
May I remind you that the squishiest race in the game, the Drell, has one Vanguard? Or the Volus? Or the Asari?
And if you throw the "they has bioticks to balance out their physical inferioriteee!!!!!" argument, may I remind you that this is a science fiction game? And that, following the same logic, there could be female soldiers using potent mass effect shield generators and armored suits to balance out their physical inferiority?
Your argument is completely moot.
Real world or not doesn't matter since im only talking about humans and we haven't changed much in ME's universe. Future armor and weapons/ space magic don't make up for the things that women, in general lack. Those are the things that keep them from frontline combat.
And star red herring tangents by bringing in alien races
So Science Fiction can be Science Fiction, but women should still stay in the kitchen. Got it.
I'm out of here now.
CrimsonN7 wrote...
However in SP I prefer to play as Femshep for... reasons!
darkblade wrote...
I could continue to bury the argument, but there is no point.
painforest wrote...
darkblade wrote...
Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
I don't see a human female being any heavy frontline class because in the real world human females aren't in frontline combat. That's just a true to life fact its actually pretty well mirrored in ME universe. Even though we see female soldiers they probably are in hunter seeker squads. Ash is a perfect example of this.darkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real world
The real world. This is a science fiction game. If it were a videogame set in WWII and they meant to make it historically accurate, then no problem. But Mass Effect is a science fiction game.
May I remind you that the squishiest race in the game, the Drell, has one Vanguard? Or the Volus? Or the Asari?
And if you throw the "they has bioticks to balance out their physical inferioriteee!!!!!" argument, may I remind you that this is a science fiction game? And that, following the same logic, there could be female soldiers using potent mass effect shield generators and armored suits to balance out their physical inferiority?
Your argument is completely moot.
Real world or not doesn't matter since im only talking about humans and we haven't changed much in ME's universe. Future armor and weapons/ space magic don't make up for the things that women, in general lack. Those are the things that keep them from frontline combat.
And star red herring tangents by bringing in alien races, not only is squishyness a game mechanic, but their cultures are different. Not to mention that races like volus are in the game as fan service. They don't fight intergalatic wars.
Oh wow, yeah heavy bone weaves and cybernetic implants don't make up for what women "lack" . Yeah, okay.
Modifié par darkblade, 20 janvier 2013 - 06:21 .
darkblade wrote...
Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
I don't see a human female being any heavy frontline class because in the real world human females aren't in frontline combat. That's just a true to life fact its actually pretty well mirrored in ME universe. Even though we see female soldiers they probably are in hunter seeker squads. Ash is a perfect example of this.darkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real world
The real world. This is a science fiction game. If it were a videogame set in WWII and they meant to make it historically accurate, then no problem. But Mass Effect is a science fiction game.
May I remind you that the squishiest race in the game, the Drell, has one Vanguard? Or the Volus? Or the Asari?
And if you throw the "they has bioticks to balance out their physical inferioriteee!!!!!" argument, may I remind you that this is a science fiction game? And that, following the same logic, there could be female soldiers using potent mass effect shield generators and armored suits to balance out their physical inferiority?
Your argument is completely moot.
Real world or not doesn't matter since im only talking about humans and we haven't changed much in ME's universe. Future armor and weapons/ space magic don't make up for the things that women, in general lack. Those are the things that keep them from frontline combat.
And star red herring tangents by bringing in alien races
So Science Fiction can be Science Fiction, but women should still stay in the kitchen. Got it.
I'm out of here now.
That's not what I said, but if that's what your stubborn mind wants to hear then fine, bow out. The facts are that civilians and males are the ones truly vying to get women into heavy combat roles while many of the WOMEN that have been in these roles and survived argue that it is a bad idea for all the reason that the current military regs say. Those women that have been through it personally acknowledge that these limitations are there for a reason because the facts are everyone isn't equal.
Any woman that can do it, let them. But them women who have done it wish they didn't and talk about how much worse the strain on their body was compared to their male counter parts.
Even in fiction like WH40k there still aren't female space marines even though we have gene therapy and super power armor. There are powerful female soldier and squads but they don't do the same things that the adeptus astartes do.
The closest to this fantasy that you want is halo. But even in Halo female spartans were nowhere as numerous as males because it was hard.
I could continue to bury the argument, but there is no point.
No need for that.Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
I could continue to bury the argument, but there is no point.
lol
darkblade wrote...
painforest wrote...
darkblade wrote...
Nissun wrote...
darkblade wrote...
I don't see a human female being any heavy frontline class because in the real world human females aren't in frontline combat. That's just a true to life fact its actually pretty well mirrored in ME universe. Even though we see female soldiers they probably are in hunter seeker squads. Ash is a perfect example of this.darkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real worlddarkblade wrote...
in the real world
The real world. This is a science fiction game. If it were a videogame set in WWII and they meant to make it historically accurate, then no problem. But Mass Effect is a science fiction game.
May I remind you that the squishiest race in the game, the Drell, has one Vanguard? Or the Volus? Or the Asari?
And if you throw the "they has bioticks to balance out their physical inferioriteee!!!!!" argument, may I remind you that this is a science fiction game? And that, following the same logic, there could be female soldiers using potent mass effect shield generators and armored suits to balance out their physical inferiority?
Your argument is completely moot.
Real world or not doesn't matter since im only talking about humans and we haven't changed much in ME's universe. Future armor and weapons/ space magic don't make up for the things that women, in general lack. Those are the things that keep them from frontline combat.
And star red herring tangents by bringing in alien races, not only is squishyness a game mechanic, but their cultures are different. Not to mention that races like volus are in the game as fan service. They don't fight intergalatic wars.
Oh wow, yeah heavy bone weaves and cybernetic implants don't make up for what women "lack" . Yeah, okay.
Yeah because every alliance soldier is a multimillion credit cyborg. Those augments aren't everyday things. Name all the cyborgs in the Alliance.
I'll start the list:
Shepard.
Modifié par darkblade, 20 janvier 2013 - 06:23 .
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