74 réponses à ce sujet

[Megakoresh]

 I am really frustrated by the fact that there are quite many weapons that are simple unusable because of how bad they are. Incisor, one of my favourite rifle in Mass Effect 2, is obviously among them, but it's not the only one. Here is the list of definitely underpowered subpar weapons, which I selected as a result of my extensive testing on Gold:

• N7 Valkyrie. It's just insanity that a Commendation weapons would be this unbelievably bad.
• M-13 Raptor. Needs more damage. Maybe an anti-shield damage multiplier.
• Viper. Needs more damage. Especially headshot damage.
• Iscisor. Needs more everything. This is a classic.
• Phaeston. Needs more damage and headshot damage.
• Argus. Needs more verything, this is a terrible weapon.
• Scorpion. Needs weight reduction. Especially at lower levels.
• Locust. Needs more headshot damage.
• Geth SMG. Needs more everything. This comes close to Incisor.

There are some others that come close like Collector AR or Striker or Disciple, but they did not fullfil all of my testing criterion.

 For those curious about testing procedure is very very simple, but time-consuming:

• You must be a good player. With PUGs you must score over 100K most of the time.
• Go to a Gold PUG game with one of the following classes:
             Destroyer
             No-flamer Geth trooper build
             Human Soldier
             Turian soldier
             Quarian Marksman
• I assume you know how to spec them right for this.
• Take a weapon you want to test and a gear bonus.
• Sometimes, like in the case of Locust, that weapon is likely to be for Ammo powers, so you can take that, otherwise AVOID taking any other equipment.
• The map must be suitable. I.E. Glacier is not a suitable map for Raptor testing.
• Play and see if your performance holds up to it's usual standard.
• Repeat with other classes from the list.

If at least 2 of those classes are capable of using this weapon effectively (i.e. you get your usual performance), this means that the weapons might not necessarily need a buff. Otherwise it's likely to be underpowered.

It is a great testing technique and so far it's worked very well for me. Only problem is that it takes a ton of time, since you have to do it with pubs.

Link to the Poll:
http://social.biowar...16/polls/43044/
My vote goes to Valkyrie because it's a commendation weapon. But what do you think?

Also I have taken another look at the Revenant, and yeah, I am fairly certain it does very much need to be on the list. I was using Cryo rounds on it during testing, and now I understand that it's only because of the chill effect which allows to use right hand advantage technique for a much longer time, that I was able to barely score over 100K with it.

In addition during the run with Turan soldier we ran 5th wave with only 3 people, which definitely contributed. Yeah, Revenant should also be there, unfortunately it wouldn't allow to edit the poll.

Modifié par Megakoresh, 21 janvier 2013 - 01:33 .

[Selthae]

The Viper is fine imho.

re 6: If you're a decent sniper, you can also use the rifle in close quarters.

[Cyonan]

Why is the Scorpion on that list?

Also, Locust + Turian/Quarian Soldier = lots of headshot damage

Actually, Turian and Quarian Soldier would make most of those guns decent.

[Megakoresh]

Selthae wrote...

The Viper is fine imho.

re 6: If you're a decent sniper, you can also use the rifle in close quarters.

If you are decent player you can use Incisor on Platinum. The point is not using it, but being effective. 

[Megakoresh]

Cyonan wrote...

Why is the Scorpion on that list?

There is an explanation on that list for why each gun is there.

Cyonan wrote...
Also, Locust + Turian/Quarian Soldier = lots of headshot damage

Actually, Turian and Quarian Soldier would make most of those guns decent.

If they did these guns wouldn't make it to the list, like Collector AR, Revenant, Striker, Disciple and a few others didn't.

Modifié par Megakoresh, 20 janvier 2013 - 09:42 .

[Selthae]

Megakoresh wrote...

Selthae wrote...

The Viper is fine imho.

re 6: If you're a decent sniper, you can also use the rifle in close quarters.

If you are decent player you can use Incisor on Platinum. The point is not using it, but being effective. 

 

I thought being effective was implied. You don't take a gun you're not effective with into a gold/plat match. 

Then again, i view sniper rifles as shotguns with awesome scopes.

Modifié par Selthae, 20 janvier 2013 - 09:42 .

[3XT3RM1N4TUS]

Also Vindicator damage buff.

[Megakoresh]

3XT3RM1N4TUS wrote...

Also Vindicator damage buff.

Vindicator, like the Avenger, is very good for ammo powers, therefore I did not include it.

[Cyonan]

Megakoresh wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Why is the Scorpion on that list?

There is an explanation on that list for why each gun is there.

Cyonan wrote...
Also, Locust + Turian/Quarian Soldier = lots of headshot damage

Actually, Turian and Quarian Soldier would make most of those guns decent.

If they did these guns wouldn't make it to the list, like Collector AR, Revenant, Striker, Disciple and a few others didn't.

The only thing you say is a weight reduction, but the gun is already lightweight. I should also point out that it's one of the best guns for ammo powers.

The problem with your test is that it's entirely dependant on player skill level.

I've used most of those weapons in Gold and done good with them, and I'm by no means the best player here.

[hostaman]

• N7 Valkyrie. It's just insanity that a Commendation weapons would be this unbelievably bad.

Can't disagree with this one. Even at higher levels, the Valkyrie just doesn't do enough damage.

• M-13 Raptor. Needs more damage.

Amen to that!  The toughest slog when I used it for the Sniper challenge.

• Viper. Needs more damage. Especially headshot damage.

Disagree with this one. If the Viper gets more damage it will outshine the BW. The Viper is well balanced as it is a light version of the BW.

• Iscisor. Needs more everything. This is a classic.

A great fun weapon to use, but agree in needs more DPS

• Argus. Needs more verything, this is a terrible weapon.

A heavy Valkyrie at present. I agree there's not much point to this weapon.

• Scorpion. Needs weight reduction. Especially at lower levels.

I agree. It feels like it should be a second weapon, but it's too heavy to use as one on casters.

• Locust. Needs more headshot damage.

The Locust should be an "Almost-Hurricane", but it's too far behind to act as a substitute for those who don't have the Hurricane.


At the risk of getting "L2P" or "noob" thrown my way, I would also suggest the Acolyte be returned to Chargeless.  Despite some players saying it's now better, I just never see it any games since they changed it back.

[owenbeast]

disciple needs a buff

[Megakoresh]

hostaman wrote...
At the risk of getting "L2P" or "noob" thrown my way, I would also suggest the Acolyte be returned to Chargeless.  Despite some players saying it's now better, I just never see it any games since they changed it back.

Amen to that.

Not that it's any less effective, just 1000 times more frustrating.

I like the idea of charging weapons up when it actually means something (i.e. more damage, like Kishok). but when it's required to just fire a weapon, it's nothing short of stupid, because the only thing it does is strain my fingers. Nothing more.

Modifié par Megakoresh, 20 janvier 2013 - 09:57 .

[darkpassenger2342]

scorpion has ulm and the heavy barrel is broken... the scorpion weighs NOTHING for what it does...

if anything it doesnt weigh enough...

besides, what other mod would you use? extended clip? not necessary for a mine launcher imo.

Modifié par darkpassenger2342, 20 janvier 2013 - 10:00 .

[Cyonan]

hostaman wrote...
The Locust should be an "Almost-Hurricane", but it's too far behind to act as a substitute for those who don't have the Hurricane.

I would say that the Tempest already is trying to fill that spot.

[SectiplaveB4]

GPSMG is perfectly Gold viable on most weapons classes so I'm gonna exclude that. But the rest of the list I would agree needs some help.

My vote went to Argus, you simply need far too much work to control accuracy and stability, AND then it's god damned limited by it's 0.25 second re-fire rate so not even marksman can help the bloody thing!!

I cannot break 100K mark in a Gold PUG with this weapon, even on the TGI! And if HE of all kits cannot make an assault rifle feel Gold viable, then something is really really wrong

I've recently acquired the Assault rifle banner, and the Argus felt weaker than the uncommon AR's.

Modifié par SectiplaveB4, 20 janvier 2013 - 10:05 .

[U Bite My Pillow]

All the ARs besides the Harrier need a bit of love. + 10% damage and 10% accuracy bonus for all other ARs would set it right.

[Shinnyshin]

SectiplaveB4 wrote...

GPSMG is perfectly Gold viable on most weapons classes so I'm gonna exclude that. But the rest of the list I would agree needs some help.

I just finished up my challenge for my GPSMG X.  It's not okay.  It is so not okay.  There was one point I'd fired over 1500 rounds into a target and it was still alive.  On Silver.  With a Turian Soldier.  Using SMG Amp V and SMG equipment III.  I wanted to cry.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 20 janvier 2013 - 10:12 .

[Megakoresh]

For those wondering why Desciple did not make it there: Disciple is a "Heavy mod platform", use it for Omni-blade, and with smart choke you can easily hit with all it's pellets, which will stagger even a phantom, making it easy to mellee them. As a weapon it's really useless, but with addition of Omni-blade there is certainly a room for it.

Also Acolyte IS terrible with the stupid charge up, but it's NOT less effective. It's very frustrating and unconvenient to use, but not less effective so that's why it's not in the list.

[Cyonan]

SectiplaveB4 wrote...
My vote went to Argus, you simply need far too much work to control accuracy and stability, AND then it's god damned limited by it's 0.25 second re-fire rate so not even marksman can help the bloody thing!!

I cannot break 100K mark in a Gold PUG with this weapon, even on the TGI! And if HE of all kits cannot make an assault rifle feel Gold viable, then something is really really wrong

I've recently acquired the Assault rifle banner, and the Argus felt weaker than the uncommon AR's.

I've gotten around 190k with the Argus in a Gold pug, but that was with consumables on an Asari Justicar.

[Cyonan]

Megakoresh wrote...

For those wondering why Desciple did not make it there: Disciple is a "Heavy mod platform", use it for Omni-blade, and with smart choke you can easily hit with all it's pellets, which will stagger even a phantom, making it easy to mellee them. As a weapon it's really useless, but with addition of Omni-blade there is certainly a room for it.

Also Acolyte IS terrible with the stupid charge up, but it's NOT less effective. It's very frustrating and unconvenient to use, but not less effective so that's why it's not in the list.

Weight increase is broken for non DLC weapons, so you can just bring it one of the 0.9 weight shotguns.

The stagger is the main reason for bringing it.

[tungstenKestrel]

GPSMG is good in my opinion for what it's meant for. I use the CSMG for my casters though.

But my word, I don't know how to make the Incisor useful at all when I have much better guns to pick from. I'd rather pick the Mantis, Viper or Raptor.

Modifié par tungstenKestrel, 20 janvier 2013 - 10:14 .

[U Bite My Pillow]

Shinnyshin wrote...

SectiplaveB4 wrote...

GPSMG is perfectly Gold viable on most weapons classes so I'm gonna exclude that. But the rest of the list I would agree needs some help.

I just finished up my challenge for my GPSMG X.  It's not okay.  It is so not okay.

Funny thing I would have agreed to this but a friend of mine made a Human Soldier build that uses nothing but the GPSMG. He puts on both Mag upgrades and Disrupter ammo. He uses Concussive Shot to detonate and he NEVER stops Shooting because of Adrenaline Rush refills his ammo. Not to mention the 50-70% damage boost.

[Amusingthree93]

hostaman wrote...

At the risk of getting "L2P" or "noob" thrown my way, I would also suggest the Acolyte be returned to Chargeless.  Despite some players saying it's now better, I just never see it any games since they changed it back.

Of course the acolyte should be chargeless! It certainly is better with the charge mechanic as it supposedly has a higher rate of fire and the damage nerf was reverted, but the crucial problem with the charging mechanic which L2P whiners forget about is the complete lack of FUN while using it. It may come as a surprise, but we all play the game for fun. When a player discharges the charged acolyte and uses their biotics, they are already worried about charging the acolyte before they even do their biotic explosion. In this way, the satisfaction and enjoyment of doing a biotic detonation is utterly ruined.

A player can only either have fun with the acolyte, or be effective with it, but not both.

Moreover, the charging acolyte comes which other practical problems, namely charging behind cover. Before anyone says "use soft cover", I am talking about waist high cover behind which you cannot take soft cover. Even if you do take soft cover behind a wall, it doesnt make up for the fact that half the time, geth primes, ravagers, scions etc. still shoot through soft cover.

[Cyonan]

Amusingthree93 wrote...
Of course the acolyte should be chargeless! It certainly is better with the charge mechanic as it supposedly has a higher rate of fire and the damage nerf was reverted, but the crucial problem with the charging mechanic which L2P whiners forget about is the complete lack of FUN while using it. It may come as a surprise, but we all play the game for fun. When a player discharges the charged acolyte and uses their biotics, they are already worried about charging the acolyte before they even do their biotic explosion. In this way, the satisfaction and enjoyment of doing a biotic detonation is utterly ruined.

A player can only either have fun with the acolyte, or be effective with it, but not both.

Moreover, the charging acolyte comes which other practical problems, namely charging behind cover. Before anyone says "use soft cover", I am talking about waist high cover behind which you cannot take soft cover. Even if you do take soft cover behind a wall, it doesnt make up for the fact that half the time, geth primes, ravagers, scions etc. still shoot through soft cover.

This might come as a shock to you, but some people actually preferred the feel of the gun with the charge up mechanic.

[Deitar]

U Bite My Pillow wrote...

Shinnyshin wrote...

SectiplaveB4 wrote...

GPSMG is perfectly Gold viable on most weapons classes so I'm gonna exclude that. But the rest of the list I would agree needs some help.

I just finished up my challenge for my GPSMG X.  It's not okay.  It is so not okay.

Funny thing I would have agreed to this but a friend of mine made a Human Soldier build that uses nothing but the GPSMG. He puts on both Mag upgrades and Disrupter ammo. He uses Concussive Shot to detonate and he NEVER stops Shooting because of Adrenaline Rush refills his ammo. Not to mention the 50-70% damage boost.

I know the build, tried it, and it's vastly inferior to other weapons in my opinion, the fact that you have to stay out of cover permanently to keep firing is the worst thing.