74 réponses à ce sujet

[IllusiveManJr]

Scorpion buff? Uh... sure.

[Shinnyshin]

Amusingthree93 wrote...

A player can only either have fun with the acolyte, or be effective with it, but not both.

I just used the Acolyte.  I did extremely well and had fun.  So...

Deitar wrote...

U Bite My Pillow wrote...

Shinnyshin wrote...

SectiplaveB4 wrote...

GPSMG is perfectly Gold viable on most weapons classes so I'm gonna exclude that. But the rest of the list I would agree needs some help.

I just finished up my challenge for my GPSMG X.  It's not okay.  It is so not okay.

Funny thing I would have agreed to this but a friend of mine made a Human Soldier build that uses nothing but the GPSMG. He puts on both Mag upgrades and Disrupter ammo. He uses Concussive Shot to detonate and he NEVER stops Shooting because of Adrenaline Rush refills his ammo. Not to mention the 50-70% damage boost.

I know the build, tried it, and it's vastly inferior to other weapons in my opinion, the fact that you have to stay out of cover permanently to keep firing is the worst thing.

I've tried said build as well.  I mean, I ran it with the Turian Soldier a few times, which is basically the same thing.  Full upgrades and ammo.  It was miserable.  You have to be firing for a certain amount of time to reach the point where your DPS doesn't suck and if you stop firing for a single milisecond, you go back to ground zero.  Your friend using Concussive Shot to detonate actually is bad on this weapon.

It requires full gear and equipment on a weapon class with an ammo refiller.  Then you have to never fire off abilities, never roll, and never take cover.  If you successfully satisfy these conditions, then you will succeed in doing meh damage.  I mean, it's goodish, but significantly less milage than you'd get using a real gun and not equipping your best stuff.  You can fire thousands of bullets into a target and not kill them.  That's not okay.

Even if the damage were balanced, this is one confused weapon.  It's a light-weight SMG that doesn't allow you to use powers or take cover.  Who on Earth is it for?  My gut says someone with an ammo-refilling steroid, but those people will all naturally lean in very different directions.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 20 janvier 2013 - 10:54 .

[LorelynF]

Disciple, imo.

[Megakoresh]

Cyonan wrote...

Weight increase is broken for non DLC weapons, so you can just bring it one of the 0.9 weight shotguns.

The stagger is the main reason for bringing it.

I know this, however I am 89.67% certain this will be fixed rather soon.

In addition, Disciple still has the lowest base weight, which makes it ideal for Batarian and Krogan vanguards.

Cyonan wrote...

This might come as a shock to you, but some people actually preferred the feel of the gun with the charge up mechanic.

Don't know about him, but yes it is a shock to me. More so, because my good gaming friend is one of them, though he still doesn't use the gun, even though he "Prefers it this way because too many people used it before".

I can not fathom how can anyone prefer an obviously physically unconvenient mechanics, that causes strain in fingers and wrist joins, as well as just being a completely unnecessary feature.

[GAMEofDEATH-PS3]

Honestly how can you sit here and make such a list for all i know you just suck at
the game and need to learn how to shoot and make better use of the weapons period.

Fact: More ppl are bad then good at this game & its those ppl who complain the
most about whats wrong with the game as well. Reason being is because
they havnt achieved the skills needed to make the best of what the game gives
them.
Alot of these guns just need the right love (class/build + bonuses)
Most times its about building your setup around a certain focus not just
throwing stuff together. Most ppl think they have a good build and the right
stuff on then they just put on a weapon and go. Not always gonna get the
right results like that.
Sometimes the build has to be made to benefit the weapon you want to
use with it cause if you dont your gonna have a hard time, since the weapon
your trying to force on the class/build you have might not be the best choice.

The N7 Valkyrie is for killing troop lvl enemies period. It does a good job doing
just that. Anything else and you better have the right powers or a 2nd wpn. for the job
cause outside of that its not that great. This is what you would call a specialty wpn.
Also explaining why the gun isnt that heavy to begin with.

[Shinnyshin]

GAMEofDEATH-PS3 wrote...

Honestly how can you sit here and make such a list for all i know you just suck at
the game and need to learn how to shoot and make better use of the weapons period.

Fact: More ppl are bad then good at this game & its those ppl who complain the
most about whats wrong with the game as well. Reason being is because
they havnt achieved the skills needed to make the best of what the game gives
them.
Alot of these guns just need the right love (class/build + bonuses)
Most times its about building your setup around a certain focus not just
throwing stuff together. Most ppl think they have a good build and the right
stuff on then they just put on a weapon and go. Not always gonna get the
right results like that.
Sometimes the build has to be made to benefit the weapon you want to
use with it cause if you dont your gonna have a hard time, since the weapon
your trying to force on the class/build you have might not be the best choice.

The N7 Valkyrie is for killing troop lvl enemies period. It does a good job doing
just that. Anything else and you better have the right powers or a 2nd wpn. for the job
cause outside of that its not that great. This is what you would call a specialty wpn.
Also explaining why the gun isnt that heavy to begin with.

I see the "specialty weapon" or "needs the right build" defense a lot for weapons that are objectively worse than their peers.  While I'll gladly concede that some weapons benefit from certain playstyles (Acolyte is a good example of a well-done niche weapon) and that not everything should be the Harrier, sometimes bad is just bad, not misunderstood.  And saying "it works fine with IV equipment on the Tsol" is a point against something, not for it.

While I'm sure the N7 Valkyrie can kill troop level enemies, can it do so better than its counterparts?  Is it better enough at it than the other available options to live up to the promotional (hard to upgrade) status?  It seems like these weapons in particular need to be good.  Is it that good?

I think most people (though we'd need a mather in here) would say that it isn't.  And in fact is several dozen notches below that level.

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:19 .

[Cyonan]

Megakoresh wrote...

I know this, however I am 89.67% certain this will be fixed rather soon.

In addition, Disciple still has the lowest base weight, which makes it ideal for Batarian and Krogan vanguards.

Don't know about him, but yes it is a shock to me. More so, because my good gaming friend is one of them, though he still doesn't use the gun, even though he "Prefers it this way because too many people used it before".

I can not fathom how can anyone prefer an obviously physically unconvenient mechanics, that causes strain in fingers and wrist joins, as well as just being a completely unnecessary feature.

Kroguard/Batarian Vanguard can more than handle a 0.9 to 1.25 weight gun.

Just cause you find it inconvenient, doesn't mean everybody does. Some people actually do like weapons that are harder to use, and not just because "it means other people can't use it" =P

[Ledgend1221]

Carnifax, Avenger, Disciple, Revenant, Falcon, Raptor, Nearly every SMG.

[stysiaq]

The biotic weapons, imho.

[Shinnyshin]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Carnifax, Avenger, Disciple, Revenant, Falcon, Raptor, Nearly every SMG.

I was under the impression that the Falcon is very good at what it sets out to do...it's never really a weapon I've seen criticism of.  You're not a fan?

Also, on the Avenger note.  Deciding whether that needs buffs treads into the whole quality-by-rarity debate.  Which, well...

Modifié par Shinnyshin, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:40 .

[Dreamcleaver]

How about just nerfing the OP weapons?

Btw Phaeston needs better accuracy and Revenant basically a buff on everything.

Falcon would be fine on an Engi or Adept if it were a little lighter. It's terrible on a dps character.

I like the Avenger on skill users. It's light and has a very fast reload.

Modifié par Dreamcleaver, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:47 .

[Ledgend1221]

Shinnyshin wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

Carnifax, Avenger, Disciple, Revenant, Falcon, Raptor, Nearly every SMG.

I was under the impression that the Falcon is very good at what it sets out to do...it's never really a weapon I've seen criticism of.  You're not a fan?

Also, on the Avenger note.  Deciding whether that needs buffs treads into the whole quality-by-rarity debate.  Which, well...

Falcon could use a good damage buff or a clip capacity buff. It's good but it just needs something.

And the avenger is outclassed by nearly all other common weapons, so I think it's deserving of a buff.

[Toxichobbit]

Cyonan wrote...

Amusingthree93 wrote...
Of course the acolyte should be chargeless! It certainly is better with the charge mechanic as it supposedly has a higher rate of fire and the damage nerf was reverted, but the crucial problem with the charging mechanic which L2P whiners forget about is the complete lack of FUN while using it. It may come as a surprise, but we all play the game for fun. When a player discharges the charged acolyte and uses their biotics, they are already worried about charging the acolyte before they even do their biotic explosion. In this way, the satisfaction and enjoyment of doing a biotic detonation is utterly ruined.

A player can only either have fun with the acolyte, or be effective with it, but not both.

Moreover, the charging acolyte comes which other practical problems, namely charging behind cover. Before anyone says "use soft cover", I am talking about waist high cover behind which you cannot take soft cover. Even if you do take soft cover behind a wall, it doesnt make up for the fact that half the time, geth primes, ravagers, scions etc. still shoot through soft cover.

This might come as a shock to you, but some people actually preferred the feel of the gun with the charge up mechanic.

Why not have both? Every other charge gun has an option for a weaker uncharged shot, so they cater for both play styles and don't spoil anyone's enjoyment of the game. I've yet to see one argument supporting the charge shot version of the Accolyte that doesn't boil down to "because i'm a better player than you and can use it which makes me feel superior"*. It seems silly to have a gun that only caters to one play style, especially given how unpopular the charged version has been both now and originally, and how popular the uncharged was. I get that too popular often means too powerful, but surely there is some compromise.

* I know your not saying this Cyonan, but I have seen it said many times before on here.

[vonSlash]

Tons of weapons need minor buffs, and a few need minor nerfs. The only ones that need buffs that I care about are the Incisor and Revenant, however.

[silverserfer28]

i think the M8 Avenger and the collector rifle could use a tiny bit of a damage boost they should out shine snipers which seem to dominate like the black widow but i love them especially the M8 Avenger ,And the collector rifle we should be able to see bullit velocity more theres none ,the Avenger has perfect bullit velocity impo

[lfc19titles]

A lot of those weapons need no buff....they are below rare, they are not meant to be that GOOD. They are fine as they are, use mods and consumables to get more fire power if you need it

Remember, rares are for gold, below rares are made for silver and bronze, and the weapons are good enough for silver and bronze

Some I agree with...Argus, the new n7 weapon and crusader could do with a rate of fire buff

eagle needs an ammo buff

[Megakoresh]

Cyonan wrote...

Kroguard/Batarian Vanguard can more than handle a 0.9 to 1.25 weight gun.

Just cause you find it inconvenient, doesn't mean everybody does. Some people actually do like weapons that are harder to use, and not just because "it means other people can't use it" =P

As a batarian I actually found that i was much better at tanking geth with Disciple than Graal. Though that could have been because Graal is a host-only weapon, like the Kishok.

As for the pistol: then they should make the charge release the full clip at 4x damage or something. But do NOT make charging a requirement to actually fire the damn thing, it's so irritating, espcially since the weapon itself is very useful for most adepts.

vonSlash wrote...

Tons of weapons need minor buffs, and a few need minor nerfs. The only ones that need buffs that I care about are the Incisor and Revenant, however.

Revenant almost made it into my list. My requirement was that two of those listed classes should get me at least 100K with the weapon. Both Turian Soldier and Quarian Marksman just barely got over 100K mark.

Modifié par Megakoresh, 20 janvier 2013 - 02:13 .

[Draining Dragon]

Why is the Phaeston on that list?

I use that on my TSel with no problems.

[xTh3xBusinessx]

Cyonan wrote...

Amusingthree93 wrote...
Of course the acolyte should be chargeless! It certainly is better with the charge mechanic as it supposedly has a higher rate of fire and the damage nerf was reverted, but the crucial problem with the charging mechanic which L2P whiners forget about is the complete lack of FUN while using it. It may come as a surprise, but we all play the game for fun. When a player discharges the charged acolyte and uses their biotics, they are already worried about charging the acolyte before they even do their biotic explosion. In this way, the satisfaction and enjoyment of doing a biotic detonation is utterly ruined.

A player can only either have fun with the acolyte, or be effective with it, but not both.

Moreover, the charging acolyte comes which other practical problems, namely charging behind cover. Before anyone says "use soft cover", I am talking about waist high cover behind which you cannot take soft cover. Even if you do take soft cover behind a wall, it doesnt make up for the fact that half the time, geth primes, ravagers, scions etc. still shoot through soft cover.

This might come as a shock to you, but some people actually preferred the feel of the gun with the charge up mechanic.

Not to mention, the fewer people using it then the less likely to be nerfed. I love the charge bc its back to how it should be. Its back to being a very powerful pistol with a decent learning curve. No longer brain dead. Which is why it was nerfed when the charge was taken off.

Modifié par xTh3xBusinessx, 20 janvier 2013 - 02:46 .

[Megakoresh]

Shinnyshin wrote...
I see the "specialty weapon" or "needs the right build" defense a lot for weapons that are objectively worse than their peers.  While I'll gladly concede that some weapons benefit from certain playstyles (Acolyte is a good example of a well-done niche weapon) and that not everything should be the Harrier, sometimes bad is just bad, not misunderstood.  And saying "it works fine with IV equipment on the Tsol" is a point against something, not for it.

While I'm sure the N7 Valkyrie can kill troop level enemies, can it do so better than its counterparts?  Is it better enough at it than the other available options to live up to the promotional (hard to upgrade) status?  It seems like these weapons in particular need to be good.  Is it that good?

I think most people (though we'd need a mather in here) would say that it isn't.  And in fact is several dozen notches below that level.

I have no idea why you waste time replying to someone like that and even reading his crap, but you brought up an interesting point:

Most top-level players refer to the Harrier as the only "true" AR. I can definitely understand why:

• AR are supposed to be universal: good against every type of enemy and at most ranges
• Require above average skill
• Have medium weight
• Have high flexibility in terms of mods.

Harrier has all of that. I mean it's the reason why only Soldier could use AR in previous ME games: he did not have the powers for other defences, and AR is a weapon that should deal with every type of situation effectively.

Most ARs missed that point. Valkyrie is just an extreme example, because it's so incredibly bad, but is also a Commendation weapon, but guns such as Revenant, Collector AR, Phaeston and to a certain extend Geth AR (although it does have a good headshot damage): all are very much lacking on one area or another. 

I think buffs to damage, weight reduction and in some cases anti-defence multiplier could fix most of these issues. Most of these guns by design seem to be  "Light version of gun X". I hope they are made such one day. Revenant is totally not good enough to be a "Light Typhoon". Just as Collector Rifle isn't good enough to be "Light Harrier".

Modifié par Megakoresh, 20 janvier 2013 - 03:41 .

[abcmasseffect]

Typhoon, buff in damage

[ArahardRus]

M-76 Revenant
Too high recoil, too slow bullet speed, to low damage.

[ThatGuyThatPlaysThisGame]

Selthae wrote...

Megakoresh wrote...

Selthae wrote...

The Viper is fine imho.

re 6: If you're a decent sniper, you can also use the rifle in close quarters.

If you are decent player you can use Incisor on Platinum. The point is not using it, but being effective. 

 

I thought being effective was implied. You don't take a gun you're not effective with into a gold/plat match. 

Then again, i view sniper rifles as shotguns with awesome scopes.

Says you  -goes and takes a disciple shotgun into platinum-

[Megakoresh]

ArahardRus wrote...

M-76 Revenant
Too high recoil, too slow bullet speed, to low damage.

I assume you mean "Rate of fire" by "Bullet speed". Because most weapons in the game except for Graal, Kishok, GPS and Falcon are hitscan.

I would not agree I think on the first 2, but last one: yes for such weight, recoil and ROF the damage is too low. However it can be moderately effective with Marksman ability because it compensates for Recoil and accuracy. It also reloads your clip instantly.

[SectiplaveB4]

I've used the GPSMG with the Geth Engineer, Geth Infiltrator (I know he doesn't count) and a N7 Destroyer without a secondary weapon and topped the board. I know it sucks with power spammers as it has to charge up again, but it works well in conjunction with soft cover use and classes that do not need to spam powers or simply have none (Destroyer)

It's also accurate enough to sustain head shots at range on destroyer or hunter mode Geth. If you aren't using AP ammo equip the AP barrel otherwise it is extremely lack luster against armor. That is how I have been running it with success myself.

I guess I just don't see eye to eye with the Argus, I just cannot do well with it on a weapons class. With the assault rifle banner unlocked now I'm honestly not sure I'll ever force myself to equip it again (I used the Valkyrie as my last weapon and left this one unfinished). Maybe I'll return one day if I really feel the urge to try make it work.

Modifié par SectiplaveB4, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:46 .