23 réponses à ce sujet

[RobotXYZ]

First question:  If I have one mage and they cast flame and frost weapons at the same time (and pay the upkeep of both) will I have flame and frost on my warriors weapons both at the same time?

Second question: If I have two mages and one casts the flame and the second casts frost...in that case would the warriors weapons carry both flame and frost.

[Darth Wraith]

If you have only one mage you must choose which one he's to use: flame, frost or telekinetic. One mage can only sustain one ability at the same time.



If you have two mages, however, they can have one each. The bonuses are both added.

[soteria]

Also, flame and frost weapons are equal in power. Telekenetic weapons is superior to either if you're fighting enemies with high armor.

[Melissa Cousland]

Anyone else find it illogical that flame and frost effects should stack? Shouldn't they cancel each other out? Maybe shown as dripping water or something like that.

[david46]

Oh great, thanks guys! Now I will be thinking about flaming icicles all day,

[Haplose]

soteria wrote...

Also, flame and frost weapons are equal in power. Telekenetic weapons is superior to either if you're fighting enemies with high armor.

Nope, Flame Weapons are far stronger then Frost Weapons. The difference is quite huge. With Frost you might deal maybe 5 damage per hit and with Flame 20.

[bas273]

^ That is indeed true. Flaming Weapons is more powerful than Frost Weapons.

Telekinetic Weapons is useful when you're fighting Revenants and similar (boss) enemies.



I prefer Flaming Weapons when fighting Darkspawn.

[soteria]

I stand corrected.

[KariTR]

Haplose wrote...

soteria wrote...

Also, flame and frost weapons are equal in power. Telekenetic weapons is superior to either if you're fighting enemies with high armor.

Nope, Flame Weapons are far stronger then Frost Weapons. The difference is quite huge. With Frost you might deal maybe 5 damage per hit and with Flame 20.

In another thread on this topic, someone suggested the disparity in damage is probably down to the caster's spell-power as according to the toolset, the formula for frost and flame weapons is identical.

[Haplose]

Well, maybe it's a bug then.



There definately is a huge difference. Actually Wynne (with Flame) had less Spellpower then Morrigan (with Frost) on my playtrough. And was dealing x4-5 damage of Frost (don't remember the exact numbers now).

[tetracycloide]

Against what targets? The damage resistances of the target matter.

[soteria]

Uh, I personally just tested this on the wolves in the Brecilian Forest. Morrigan with 50ish spellpower and frost weapons, PC with 45ish spellpower with fire weapons. I removed all items that give bonuses to fire/frost damage. Frost weapons was doing 3 damage and flaming weapons was doing 11 damage.



I don't think wolves or werewolves are resistant to cold at all. Other than rage demons, is there a case of a monster that might be more vulnerable to frost than fire? Because if not, it doesn't really matter if they're *technically* equal if most monsters in the game are vulnerable to fire.

[tetracycloide]

Well, according to the information on the wiki the damage is also supposed to be limited between 1 and 10 so if you're seeing 11 that either means one of two things. Werewolves have negative fire resistances (unlikely in my opinion) or the wiki is just wrong. If it's wrong about that it stands to reason it could be wrong about the damage calculations too.



I assume for your test the player doing the attacking didn't have any elemental runes or +x% damage enchantments on any of their gear?



To find a target's fire or cold resistances compare the damage they take from flam blast or cone of cold to the damage a party member with 0% fire and cold resistance takes.

[soteria]

I just tested it again on Ser Cauthrien, Leliana wielding two crow daggers with no runes etc. No elemental bonuses on either mage. 6 cold damage, 11 fire. /shrug.

[tetracycloide]

Play testing against werewolves for resistances yielded these results:



Baseline damage against 0% resistance alistair:

Flame Blast: 26 per tick

Cone of Cold: 67 damage



Werewolf damage:

Flame Blast: 24 per tick

Cone of Cold: 61 damage



So, just from these numbers, that's roughly 9% resistance in both. Given that the engine rounds before displaying information we're looking at between 8-9% resist cold and 6-10% resist fire.



Werewolf weapon damage @ 60 spellpower, no % damage:

Flame: 13

Cold: 6



Adding % damage items to the caster had no effect. Adding % damage items to the attacker DID have an effect, 10% cold increased Leliana's damage from 6 to 7 with cold weapons.



Now the same test with 68 spellpower:

Flame: 17

Frost: 8



Now with 85 spellpower:

Flame: 19

Frost: 9



Given these results I think it's safe to say the wiki is completely wrong.

[soteria]

Yeah, that looks pretty conclusive. Nice work on the numbers. I've never been great at testing those sorts of things.

[Mr_Raider]

Does frost have any additional effects on the enemy to make it worthwhile?

[tetracycloide]

After a few more tests the weapon enchants appear to follow some kind of stepping function.

53 spellpower = 13 flame
54 spellpower = 13 flame
55 spellpower = 13 flame
56 spellpower = 13 flame
57 spellpower = 13 flame
58 spellpower = 13 flame
59 spellpower = 13 flame
60 spellpower = 13 flame
61 spellpower = 15 flame
66 spellpower = 15 flame
67 spellpower = 15 flame
68 spellpower = 17 flame
73 spellpower = 17 flame
85 spellpower = 19 flame
100 spellpower = 19 flame
104 spellpower = 19 flame

This would also seem indicative of a cap at 19 damage as well, before resistances at least.  Given that they have resistances it's probably actually a cap of +20 before the resistances come into play.  Debuffing with affliction hex and vulnerability hex at 67 spellpower resulted in 28 damage.

If there's a chance frost weapons can freeze I've never seen it proc and I'd think against white enemies it would proc often enough to have occured at least once in my tests if it did proc some kind of freeze.  No noticable effect from frost weapons on attack speed or movement speed.  It's possible it has an effect on enemy damage, crit rates, attack rates, or defense but it's impossible to tell that for certain without a lot more time and a combat log.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 12 janvier 2010 - 02:55 .

[EvilIguana966]

I think it's pretty safe to say that there is a bug somewhere with how resistances affect elemental weapon buffs, because the damage people have been seeing is totally inconsistent with what the spells should be doing according to their code.

[tetracycloide]

There is another possibility. The baseline I'm comparing against is Alistair at 0% fire resistance but perhaps there are built in racial resistance modifiers that don't show? Humanoids get -100% fire resistance or something? I'm also assuming friendly fire has the same modifiers as attacking a hostile which could also be wrong. Alistair should have 100% spell immunity but I can still hit him with spells no problem, for example.

Modifié par tetracycloide, 12 janvier 2010 - 04:29 .

[Jack-Nader]

This is one of the first things I noticed TBH. Flame weapons always does more than twice that of cold. I've seen in excess of 40 damage per strike off flaming weapons + hexes.

[soteria]

I considered the possibility that they made it weaker because winter's grasp and cone of cold are so good, but then, fireball isn't exactly weak, either.

[EvilIguana966]

soteria wrote...

I considered the possibility that they made it weaker because winter's grasp and cone of cold are so good, but then, fireball isn't exactly weak, either.

That explanation doesn't really cut it because, as others have pointed out, the spells are coded exactly the same way in the game data.  The difference in damage is not due to any intentional difference in how the spells themselves work.

[soteria]

EvilIguana966 wrote...

soteria wrote...

I considered the possibility that they made it weaker because winter's grasp and cone of cold are so good, but then, fireball isn't exactly weak, either.

That explanation doesn't really cut it because, as others have pointed out, the spells are coded exactly the same way in the game data.  The difference in damage is not due to any intentional difference in how the spells themselves work.

According to the game code or according to the wiki?  Is the wiki correct about what is actually coded?