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[Meltemph]

If you paied attention to Gerrel's briefing, you would know that the same moment the Reapers took over the geth was the same moment they blockaded the Tikkun Relay

And they had many moments during the whole thing to escape(they chose not to).

[Shallyah]

Just adding this here, for justice.

From: Alliance News Network Information Partners
November 21, 2186
Honoring the Quarian Fleet

Palaven - The Turian Hierarchy, one of the most powerful and respected ground forces in the galaxy, are today paying respects to an unlikely ally: the marines of the Quarian Fleet.

The weakened immune systems of quarians normally means their forces are restricted to ships. But when an emergency technical team was required to repair a ground-based com relay, providing vital intel to the turian military, one quarian squad stepped up.

Commanded by squad leader Kal’Reegar, the quarian team repaired the com system, then sacrificed their lives holding the position until krogan troops arrived.

When turian troops offered to provide evac support, Reegar refused, insisting they could not risk the relay falling. He said multiple breaches to their exo-suits made evacuation impossible.

“We’re all dead anyway,” Reegar reportedly said. “Just make them pay for it.”

A spokesman for Primarch Victus praised the squad’s bravery.

Modifié par Shallyah, 23 janvier 2013 - 03:00 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Meltemph wrote...

If you paied attention to Gerrel's briefing, you would know that the same moment the Reapers took over the geth was the same moment they blockaded the Tikkun Relay

And they had many moments during the whole thing to escape(they chose not to).

Remember that part in the Codex where it said it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to traverse a Mass Relay? Yeah.

Retreat was never a viable option. Gerrel was right to attack the Dreadnought. Even paragon Shepard (the same paragon Shepard who punches Zaeed and pistol-whips Gavin Archer) agrees, and every single other paragon option in the entire arc sides with the Geth.

[Meltemph]

Remember that part in the Codex where it said it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to traverse a Mass Relay? Yeah.

Retreat was never a viable option. Gerrel was right to attack the Dreadnought. Even paragon Shepard (the same paragon Shepard who punches Zaeed and pistol-whips Gavin Archer) agrees, and every single other paragon option in the entire arc sides with the Geth.

Everything did not happen on the timeline it took us to do that story arc, otherwise it wouldnt have taken us around 6 months or so to do everything in ME3. There were periods of respite, the Quarians chose not to take part of(seeing as we could leave the area as well).

Yes, it more then likely is writers not keeping track of the timeline, but that is more of my point.

Modifié par Meltemph, 23 janvier 2013 - 03:07 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Meltemph wrote...

Remember that part in the Codex where it said it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to traverse a Mass Relay? Yeah.

Retreat was never a viable option. Gerrel was right to attack the Dreadnought. Even paragon Shepard (the same paragon Shepard who punches Zaeed and pistol-whips Gavin Archer) agrees, and every single other paragon option in the entire arc sides with the Geth.

Everything did not happen on the timeline it took us to do that story arc, otherwise it wouldnt have taken us around 6 months or so to do everything in ME3. There were periods of respite the Quarians chose not to take part of(seeing as we could leave the area as well).

Yes, it more then likely is writers not keeping track of the timeline, but that is more of my point.

The Normandy is a stealth ship. It's able to pass through the Geth blockade unharassed. The Migrant Fleet cannot. The whole point of Koris' mission is that, in a panic, a bunch of civilian ship captains wanted to try to escape the fight by making a run to the relay. If you fail to save Koris (who calms them down and convinces them not to throw themselves at the wall), they do exactly that, and the Geth blocking the Relay tear them apart.

There were no "periods of respite." The Geth had them effectively penned in the Tikkun system.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 23 janvier 2013 - 03:09 .

[Meltemph]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Remember that part in the Codex where it said it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to traverse a Mass Relay? Yeah.

Retreat was never a viable option. Gerrel was right to attack the Dreadnought. Even paragon Shepard (the same paragon Shepard who punches Zaeed and pistol-whips Gavin Archer) agrees, and every single other paragon option in the entire arc sides with the Geth.

Everything did not happen on the timeline it took us to do that story arc, otherwise it wouldnt have taken us around 6 months or so to do everything in ME3. There were periods of respite the Quarians chose not to take part of(seeing as we could leave the area as well).

Yes, it more then likely is writers not keeping track of the timeline, but that is more of my point.

The Normandy is a stealth ship. It's able to pass through the Geth blockade unharassed. The Migrant Fleet cannot. The whole point of Koris' mission is that, in a panic, a bunch of civilian ship captains wanted to try to escape the fight by making a run to the relay. If you fail to save Koris (who calms them down and convinces them not to throw themselves at the wall), they do exactly that, and the Geth blocking the Relay tear them apart.

There were no "periods of respite." The Geth had them effectively penned in the Tikkun system.

They pancied during the dreadnaught run, after that it was about disabling the geth from the reapers.  The events are not linked(after the geth dreadnaught mission), or at least dont show to be.

Modifié par Meltemph, 23 janvier 2013 - 03:17 .

[DeinonSlayer]

Meltemph wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Remember that part in the Codex where it said it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to traverse a Mass Relay? Yeah.

Retreat was never a viable option. Gerrel was right to attack the Dreadnought. Even paragon Shepard (the same paragon Shepard who punches Zaeed and pistol-whips Gavin Archer) agrees, and every single other paragon option in the entire arc sides with the Geth.

Everything did not happen on the timeline it took us to do that story arc, otherwise it wouldnt have taken us around 6 months or so to do everything in ME3. There were periods of respite the Quarians chose not to take part of(seeing as we could leave the area as well).

Yes, it more then likely is writers not keeping track of the timeline, but that is more of my point.

The Normandy is a stealth ship. It's able to pass through the Geth blockade unharassed. The Migrant Fleet cannot. The whole point of Koris' mission is that, in a panic, a bunch of civilian ship captains wanted to try to escape the fight by making a run to the relay. If you fail to save Koris (who calms them down and convinces them not to throw themselves at the wall), they do exactly that, and the Geth blocking the Relay tear them apart.

There were no "periods of respite." The Geth had them effectively penned in the Tikkun system.

They pancied during the dreadnaught run, after that it was about disabling the geth from the reapers.  The events are not linked(after the geth dreadnaught mission), or at least dont show to be.

They panic if you fail to rescue Koris. The goal of the Reaper-controlled Geth is not to kill the Quarians. As the post-upgrade Geth demonstrate, they could have done that with relative ease. It's their goal to hold the Quarians in place until the Reapers get around to harvesting them.

The Geth blockade never breaks as long as they're controlled by the Reapers -  it doesn't conveniently go away between missions. The Normandy, and the Quarian diplomatic vessel equipped with Turian stealth tech, are the only ships capable of passing in and out of the system at will.

[silverexile17s]

Meltemph wrote...

Remember that part in the Codex where it said it takes days for the Migrant Fleet to traverse a Mass Relay? Yeah.

Retreat was never a viable option. Gerrel was right to attack the Dreadnought. Even paragon Shepard (the same paragon Shepard who punches Zaeed and pistol-whips Gavin Archer) agrees, and every single other paragon option in the entire arc sides with the Geth.

Everything did not happen on the timeline it took us to do that story arc, otherwise it wouldnt have taken us around 6 months or so to do everything in ME3. There were periods of respite, the Quarians chose not to take part of(seeing as we could leave the area as well).

Yes, it more then likely is writers not keeping track of the timeline, but that is more of my point.

But it DID take that long. When you finally return to Earth, Shepard monolougs about how it was full of life "Just a few months ago."
Note the bolded.
Several months DID pass throughout the timeframe of ME3. A war need several months of continuous effort to turn the tide. There was no respute.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 23 janvier 2013 - 03:40 .

[Gredd18]

It's easy to understand, traversing the mass relays takes a few hours, and moving throught a system takes a few hours, unless, you want a realism patch? Everyone is dead

[justafan]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

They panic if you fail to rescue Koris. The goal of the Reaper-controlled Geth is not to kill the Quarians. As the post-upgrade Geth demonstrate, they could have done that with relative ease. It's their goal to hold the Quarians in place until the Reapers get around to harvesting them.

The Geth blockade never breaks as long as they're controlled by the Reapers -  it doesn't conveniently go away between missions. The Normandy, and the Quarian diplomatic vessel equipped with Turian stealth tech, are the only ships capable of passing in and out of the system at will.

I think the Geth actually were trying to kill the Quarians the whole time under Reaper control.  The Quarian fleet actually wasn't doing that bad against the Geth.  If I recall, they were able to retreat behind a certain planet that hid the majority of them from the Geth.  This allowed them to avoid the main geth fleet and stay alive.  

The reason they get decimated at the end is because they are forced to leave their defendable position to punch through the Geth and support Shepard and destroy the Reaper, which they manage to do Reaper code and all.  This causes them to lose their only advantage and why when the Reaper code comes back online they are destroyed.

Modifié par justafan, 23 janvier 2013 - 03:42 .

[KiwiQuiche]

Kill all the suit-rats and their ratlings.

[silverexile17s]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Kill all the suit-rats and their ratlings.

....Is that a joke? Or are you really serious?

[DeinonSlayer]

silverexile17s wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Kill all the suit-rats and their ratlings.

....Is that a joke? Or are you really serious?

Two pages ago Kiwi said (s)he was joking. More of the same.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 23 janvier 2013 - 06:58 .

[justafan]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

*derp*

...no comment.

Lol at someone taking me seriously. Quick, ignite the righteous quarian RAEG

I think this will answer your question Silver.  

Not that I have a problem with it, since it usually reignites discussion after a thread dies and I like these Geth v. Quarian debates.

Modifié par justafan, 23 janvier 2013 - 06:56 .

[78stonewobble]

silverexile17s wrote...
I may be pro-synthetic, myself, but even I have to admit that I don't know how so many people can be so harsh on the quarians for a choice that was their only option.

Well I think the entire thing was quite a bit forced.

In that the Quarians were wildly loosing and facing extinction and still firing on the Geth (supposedly).

In that the Geth didn't try to dearm or just disable the Ships (as people can in every other sci fi) or let the less combat able ships retreat without pursuing.



It must have been about the "cost" being equal for your choices.

Letting them retreat would have mirrorred the Geth at the morning war and be more in thread with the talks I had with Legion and my understanding of the Geth.

In me2 I argued against war. With Legion at my side even. They Quarians still went ahead with it. They knew they couldn't win "conventionally", but had to rely on the efficiency of those workarounds to geth technology they had come up with. Not only that but they gambled their entire race on it.

The Quarians could have tried alot harder at getting peacefull relations going.

It made little sense all of it, but it was beautifully executed in my oppinion to draw me in emotionally.

[KiwiQuiche]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Kill all the suit-rats and their ratlings.

....Is that a joke? Or are you really serious?

Two pages ago Kiwi said (s)he was joking. More of the same.

Yes, I'm making a joke. Thought the ratling coment would have given it away lmao

justafan wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

*derp*

...no comment.

Lol at someone taking me seriously. Quick, ignite the righteous quarian RAEG

I think this will answer your question Silver.  

Not that I have a problem with it, since it usually reignites discussion after a thread dies and I like these Geth v. Quarian debates.

Yeah I can't help it sometimes XD The utter rage some people get over this topic can be...amusing and quite surprising. Some certainly get passionate about it and heck, I enjoy a good drag-out ferocious argument/debate as much as the next person.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 23 janvier 2013 - 09:57 .

[InvincibleHero]

It was their prime directive. j/k

Seriously machine logic means decisive results. Ending all quarians means threat from them is zero. it's that simple and why geth can never be trusted. The second humanity is perceived as a threat they wouldn't see it coming. Geth can lie as they have no morals. They have little weakness or sympathy or care for anything. Nothing can hostage them like mutually assured destruction or having a heart does to stay human hands from just wiping out other contries. Geth word is meaningless like a human's can be but a human has motivations and limits that prevent rash or overtly evil actions such as genocide.

[DeinonSlayer]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Yeah I can't help it sometimes XD The utter rage some people get over this topic can be...amusing and quite surprising. Some certainly get passionate about it and heck, I enjoy a good drag-out ferocious argument/debate as much as the next person.

It makes a certain sense why people get passionate about it. Genocide is a contentious topic (evidently, even fictional ones). When people spend hundreds of hours playing the trilogy, they pick up on things and start forming rather strong opinions. I've seen threads on this topic go for eighty pages or more. Not so much for the Genophage, though - I find that odd.

Sometimes I feel like one of those people who sits around and mulls over the finer points of the American Civil War. Would the Confederates have won at Gettysburg if Pickett's Charge hadn't been disrupted by that fence?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 23 janvier 2013 - 03:41 .

[DRACO1130]

presumably the upgraded geth, as individuals, contacted the remaing quarians and migrated them back to rannoch as a kind of pet.

[DirtySHISN0]

Cyrax86 wrote...
3- Their civilian ships need some type of protection either against the Geth or the Reapers. 

They were weaponised specifically to fight the geth.

Cyrax86 wrote...
4-If the civilian ships didn't join or chose to abandon their fleet, how long would they have lasted against the Reapers without the protection of their military ships. 

Missed the point, Gerrel made it so that they had no choice when they could otherwise have retreated to council space through the relay. You know, so the civilians didn't have to fight.

Cyrax86 wrote...
5- Because they have no were else to go, Which other race would shelter millions of Quarians, you've seen how other races treat the Quarians and how they view them. 

because they refuse to attempt colonisation on a new world.

Cyrax86 wrote...
6.7- Quarians attaching weapons to their civilian ships = idiotic
 

Stupid? yes. Idiotic? yes.

Cyrax86 wrote...
300 years ago the Quarians created the Geth, those Quarians are no longer around and yet all Quarians are still punished for it

For all the mistakes they are still making. finished your sentence. They don't learn, they just repeat.

Cyrax86 wrote...
lets all join the Reapers and doom the rest of the galaxy just to get a few more days of existence, or enslaved the rest of our life or turned to goo. :S

Once again, that was the Quarians fault.

It always comes back to the quarians mistakes.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 23 janvier 2013 - 07:31 .

[Gredd18]

The problem is they CAN'T colonise other worlds. The ones they can live on without much fear of viruses have been colonised, and they are respected as 2nd class citizens of the galaxy. I highly dought a race would help them. They'd not get much back.

[silverexile17s]

DirtySHISN0 wrote...

Cyrax86 wrote...
3- Their civilian ships need some type of protection either against the Geth or the Reapers. 

They were weaponised specifically to fight the geth.

Cyrax86 wrote...
4-If the civilian ships didn't join or chose to abandon their fleet, how long would they have lasted against the Reapers without the protection of their military ships. 

Missed the point, Gerrel made it so that they had no choice when they could otherwise have retreated to council space through the relay. You know, so the civilians didn't have to fight.

Cyrax86 wrote...
5- Because they have no were else to go, Which other race would shelter millions of Quarians, you've seen how other races treat the Quarians and how they view them. 

because they refuse to attempt colonisation on a new world.

Cyrax86 wrote...
6.7- Quarians attaching weapons to their civilian ships = idiotic
 

Stupid? yes. Idiotic? yes.

Cyrax86 wrote...
300 years ago the Quarians created the Geth, those Quarians are no longer around and yet all Quarians are still punished for it

For all the mistakes they are still making. finished your sentence. They don't learn, they just repeat.

Cyrax86 wrote...
lets all join the Reapers and doom the rest of the galaxy just to get a few more days of existence, or enslaved the rest of our life or turned to goo. :S

Once again, that was the Quarians fault.

It always comes back to the quarians mistakes.

1. They had no choice but to weponize the whole fleet, regardless of fighting the geth. With the Reapers at every corner, not adding weapons to the liveships would have made them a target for the Reapers.
It was either don't weponize, and be a Reaper Target, or weponize, and be a Geth Target. No right answer, but at least with the later, they could resonalble defend themselves.

2.The relay was blocaded after the quarians entered the Relay. If done beofe the upgrades, then the quarians didn't panic at that, because they still had Xen's weapons. Until the Reapers gave the geth upgrades that nulified them. Then the quarians realized that they could no longer break the blockade with the ease they thought they had, and realized they were trapped - far too late to do anything about it.
And the geth move fast. They could have blockaded the Relay quickly after getting their upgrades.
Either way, the fact remians: The relay was blockaded quickly, and the quarians were trapped.

3. Uh... I think you mixed that up. The COUNCIL was the one refusing to let them colonize anywhere else. Look up Ekuna in the ME wiki. The quarians tried to colonize that world, and the Council threatened them with orbital bombardment.
To colonize, they would need a dextro-based world with little harmful bacteria. How many worlds like that are there? Few and far between, and most have been taken or claimed.
They needed a world to shelter their civilians during the Reaper War. Rannoch was the only one avalible, and as far as anyone in the wider galaxy knew, the geth were allies of the Reapers. They figured two birds, one stone.

4. Again, no choice. They can't split the fleet, because the combat ships are interdependant on resources and fuel from the civilian ships. They can't be split up, or their infrastructure colapses. And the alternitive to arming the ships and bringing them with, was to leave them unarmed and alone behind in the larger galaxy with Reapers everywhere. No choice. A catch 22 no matter how you look at it.

5. What mistake did they repeat? They didn't have a CHOICE but to return, because where else were they supposed to go in a galaxy that literally was going to hell in a hand-basket?
They didn't build new A.I.s.
Everything they did was done out of desperation and nessesity.
They've been living in suits and ships for 300 years. They are hated by most people in the galaxy. Their creations attacked the Citadel and ravaged the Traverse, breeding more hate and discrimination.
They didn't have a choice in the circumstances.

6. The geth didn't exactally telagraph their peaceful intents, what with letting the Heretics run rampant, did they? Or when they killed anyone that went into the Veil? Or when they wiped out 99% of the entire quarian population in one year? The geth have made plenty of mistakes of their own choice as well. You can't chastize the quarians for the same desperation that drove the geth.

[Auld Wulf]

Uh, no. The weaponising is idiocy, it creates targets. In any military scenario, adding weapons to a civilian fleet just creates more targets. What should happen is that you keep your civilian fleet protected behind a barricade of ships. This just proves how amazingly inept the quarian military is. I have many problems with the quarian military (though not really the quarians themselves), and this is one of them. (Though not their biggest, their outright and inexcusable fascism would be their biggest.)

What you do with civilian ships is just equip them with shields and engines, and you have them divert as much power to those as possible. Giving them guns just ensures that something's going to shoot back. The reapers don't shoot back unless you shoot at them because ultimately they prefer to harvest, so even there adding guns is folly. In regards to the geth? The geth fire in self-defence only, so they only shoot at those who're shooting at them.

Essentially, adding guns to civilian ships? It's signing their death warrant. Behold the utter stupidity of teh quarian military! The quarians as a people are okay, but it's almost like they're two distinct species - the civilians and the military; and the military has only a tenth of the intellect of the civilians. They need to take a good, long, hard look at their life choices. Not only that, but the quarian military has always forced the geth into a defence posture, as Shepard pointed out. Pretty much everything bad that's happened to the quarians is the fault of their imbecilic military.

You can blame the quarians, but if you take a look at the empirical evidence as presented in the game, the only people who really have any blame are the quarian military. Not the geth (who're basically quarian civilian synthetics), not the quarian civilians, but just the quarian military. To be honest, I wish they'd had a moment of smartness and NOT outfitted civilian ships with guns. Then the geth could have taken out the military and the quarian civilians and the geth could have had a lovely happily ever after.

Then again, I suppose you could say that it's not stupidity on the part of their military, but rather selfishness; you could say that the reason they put guns on civilian ships would be to send them out to die, first, to thin geth numbers, thus protecting the military. You could say that this was a fairly orchestrated effort by the military to sacrifice their people so that they'll survive. But I'm more charitable than that. I'd rather think that they're just plain dumb.

Or maybe it's a bit of column A and a bit of column B, who knows?

EDIT: Considering that the quarian military shot at a ship that Shepard was still in... maybe they are that evil. Maybe they did just outfit their civilian ships with weapons so that they could send them out to die. Who knows? I really don't know with the quarian military any more whether they're evil, or stupid, or both. It would explain the Dawn War though if they did the same things, there. Like holding children captive whilst sending civilian parents out to fight the geth. I woudln't put it past them.

Didn't the quarian military also gun down loads of quarian civilians for nothing more than wanting to protect the geth, too? Geez. I really wish I'd been able to take out the quarian military in ME3, it would have been better for everyone.

Modifié par Auld Wulf, 23 janvier 2013 - 10:02 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Behold the utter stupidity of teh quarian military!

I doubt that it's that simple - I don't think the quarian military would have enacted pre-emotive genocide completely on their own; a first strike that failed and left 98.7% ( or whatever) of the quarians dead.

Considering that the quarian military shot at a ship that Shepard was still in

That wouldn't be the first suicidal commando raid. 

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 23 janvier 2013 - 10:21 .

[Applepie_Svk]

coz Catalyst said so...