391 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

And thus the Geth after destroying the heavy fleet show themselves that after their "upgrade" to be no better than the quarians, do they. They finish the genocide and the blood is on Shepard's hands. Shepard can only balance out the situation in the Destroy ending by eliminating the synthetic threat to the galaxy.

Or, you know, persuading people to stop trying to pointlessly antagonize synthetics.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
And with regard to the guns on the live ships, do you think the reapers are going to distinguish between armed and unarmed ships? I don't. Better to let them have a spinal mounted main gun.

If you have a gun, you're in a warzone, and you're firing, you aren't a civilian. It's that simple.

They weren't firing, they were fleeing.

What the Geth do there isn't self-defense. It's what they've done for the last three centuries. Pre-emptive "threat" elimination.

Like the war in Iraq.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 janvier 2013 - 06:58 .

[Meltemph]

They weren't firing, they were fleeing.

Eh... Either way, we learn that the qurians current culture is that of obsession without any ability to see negative outcomes of their incredibly aggressive and stupid actions. If the Geth were organic, I would still understand why they decided to keep shooting.

The Quarian, outside of Tali(and obviously some others) showed a significantly high amount of ineptitude, with an incredibly high amount of aggression, killing everyone at that battle-site wasnt only "logical" but it was rational.

The Quarians are so irrational, it seems, as a whole that letting them escape would have more then likely resulted in Quarians going moron mode again, and creating even a bigger mess.

The quarians are dumber(nonsensical) and more aggressive then the Krogan, with less of an excuse as to why they are so irrational -- seeing as the Krogan were pulled into the future with the justification of eradicating a race.

Modifié par Meltemph, 20 janvier 2013 - 06:59 .

[MegaSovereign]

If I was a Quarian I wouldn't let no damn toaster take my home. I'd go down fighting.

Considering how close to humanity the Quarians are, I'm sure they shared the same attitude.

The current-generation Quarians are being punished for something that their ancestors did. That doesn't seem very fair.

[DeinonSlayer]

Meltemph wrote...

They weren't firing, they were fleeing.

Eh... Either way, we learn that the qurians current culture is that of obsession without any ability to see negative outcomes of their incredibly aggressive and stupid actions. If the Geth were organic, I would still understand why they decided to keep shooting.

The Quarian, outside of Tali(and obviously some others) showed a significantly high amount of ineptitude, with an incredibly high amount of aggression, killing everyone at that battle-site wasnt only "logical" but it was rational.

The Quarians are so irrational, it seems, as a whole that letting them escape would have more then likely resulted in Quarians going moron mode again, and creating even a bigger mess.

The quarians are dumber and more aggressive then the Krogan, with less of an excuse as to why they are so irrational -- seeing as the Krogan were pulled into the future with the justification of eradicating a race.

They (the non-Admiral Quarians) think they're up against an enemy with the mentality of the Geth VI - one that shows no mercy. Historically, that's what they were up against, and if the VI's geth are present instead of Legion, destroying them is the only way the Quarians can survive.

If peace is possible, Shepard bypasses the admiralty, speaking directly to the fleet, and basically informs them that peace is an option. One that the Quarians then choose to take. In the outcome where the Quarians are destroyed, they're never even told the upload is happening - Shepard chooses to withhold that information from them. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online. They have no reason to believe they'll be spared if they stop shooting.

Of course, it is simpler to just believe one party is acting out of stupidity, isn't it?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 janvier 2013 - 07:05 .

[Obadiah]

How is it the people that ask these "why Geth kill Quarians" questions never ask why the Quarians destroyed every last Geth when the Geth lost their upgrades and were not firing?

[stevefox1200]

If a someone was shooting at me and then starting running away I don't think shooting them in the back is wrong

Plus every quarian is equipped for battle and is involved in the bombardment

If you fill your battleship with kids and the enemy blows it up it does not make them child killers, it shows you don't care about keeping your civillains safe

For the escape pods, every one is as likely to have a blind quarian school teacher as it is to have a fully armed squad of angry quarian marines, just blow them out of the sky

Basically the quarians throw their people on the front lines in a way that makes everyone a valid target

[DeinonSlayer]

Obadiah wrote...

How is it the people that ask these "why Geth kill Quarians" questions never ask why the Quarians destroyed every last Geth when the Geth lost their upgrades and were not firing?

The Geth were firing, you can see it in the cutscene. They were just combat-ineffective - their aim was scrambled.

It's like two opposing armies fighting at night - one side is vastly outgunned, but the other lacks night-vision gear. By uploading the code, Shepard basically distributes night-vision gear to the other side.

[Dhoozy77]

The school buses were forcefully taken and made to piloted against the geth. The childrens have so say for quarian policies. They didn't drive the school buses they were on it because thst was the only homes they known. When the heavy fleet wss destroyed and the civilian no longer have to obey try to run they were gunned down. Wouldn't surprise me if the geth platforms boarded those school bushes and pulled a Sandy hook on the quarian children.

[SeptimusMagistos]

MegaSovereign wrote...

If I was a Quarian I wouldn't let no damn toaster take my home. I'd go down fighting.

Considering how close to humanity the Quarians are, I'm sure they shared the same attitude.

So the geth were right to destroy the quarians then?

MegaSovereign wrote...
The current-generation Quarians are being punished for something that their ancestors did. That doesn't seem very fair.

Punished by whom? The geth aren't punishing anyone. They just don't want to die. The quarians want them to die. This is an obvious conflict of interest.

[Meltemph]

 They think they're up against an enemy with the mentality of the Geth VI - one that shows no mercy. Historically, that's what they were up against, and if the VI's geth are present instead of Legion, destroying them is the only way the Quarians can survive.

The Geth, from what we are shown and told in game without assumptions, is that they react the same way as the quarians(or better).  

If peace is possible, Shepard basically informs them that it's an option. One that the Quarians then choose to take. In the outcome where the Quarians are destroyed, they're never even told the upload is happening - Shepard chooses to withhold that information from them. For all they know, another Reaper backup came online. They have no reason to believe they'll be spared if they stop shooting.

I actually already qualified this, with my very 1st comment in this topic.  I'm assuming you chose to ignore it to prove your narrative?  I'm talking about the Quarians and Geth as a whole, and how they react in very similar ways.  You are assuming that the Quarians would have stopped shooting just because peace was possible.  

The only reason you can save both is becuase of Sheps "superhuman" negotiating skills.  Without his words of wisdom they kill each other.

Of course, it is simpler to just believe one party is acting out of stupidity, isn't it?

Wat?  Based on what I said, what makes you think the Geth are "so much better"?  The difference is the Geth learned it form the Quarians.

Modifié par Meltemph, 20 janvier 2013 - 07:10 .

[Ticonderoga117]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...
The current-generation Quarians are being punished for something that their ancestors did. That doesn't seem very fair.

Punished by whom? The geth aren't punishing anyone. They just don't want to die. The quarians want them to die. This is an obvious conflict of interest.

The Quarians didn't even try to use diplomacy. They just showed up guns blazing. Considering that both sides could've come out strong if this was the case, it's funny that it's never tried. 

[v TricKy v]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Because the Quarains thought it was a good idea to strap guns onto their school buses.

Yep. That only works in the occasional zombie movie

[MegaSovereign]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

If I was a Quarian I wouldn't let no damn toaster take my home. I'd go down fighting.

Considering how close to humanity the Quarians are, I'm sure they shared the same attitude.

So the geth were right to destroy the quarians then?

MegaSovereign wrote...
The current-generation Quarians are being punished for something that their ancestors did. That doesn't seem very fair.

Punished by whom? The geth aren't punishing anyone. They just don't want to die. The quarians want them to die. This is an obvious conflict of interest.

They're being punished by the fact that they don't have a homeworld.

The Geth don't have to live on Rannoch. They can literally live anywhere and be isolated. On the otherhand it be harder for Quarians to find a new homeworld because of their immune systems. 

[DeinonSlayer]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...
The current-generation Quarians are being punished for something that their ancestors did. That doesn't seem very fair.

Punished by whom? The geth aren't punishing anyone. They just don't want to die. The quarians want them to die. This is an obvious conflict of interest.

The Quarians didn't even try to use diplomacy. They just showed up guns blazing. Considering that both sides could've come out strong if this was the case, it's funny that it's never tried.

Tali did. Legion severed communication.

If I were Shepard, the first order of business after the Collector base would have been to take Legion back to the Migrant Fleet and get this crap ironed out. Instead, both parties return to their respective sides of the fence and let the problem fester until the Reapers showed up.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 janvier 2013 - 07:15 .

[WhiteKnyght]

Dhoozy77 wrote...

It not like they could fight back being such on said glass canon. Once the heavy fleet was gone there were no reason to kill the children and hunt down every last quarian survivor.  It was hypocritcal of the geth to say " we regret the death of the creators" when clearly they could have spared some. 

1. Machines don't know what hypocrisy is.

2. The Geth attacked any ship that was shooting at them. If they'd taken the time to anaylyze the crew of 50,000 starships to see which ones had kids aboard, they would have been killed instead.

[Obadiah]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

How is it the people that ask these "why Geth kill Quarians" questions never ask why the Quarians destroyed every last Geth when the Geth lost their upgrades and were not firing?

The Geth were firing, you can see it in the cutscene. They were just combat-ineffective - their aim was scrambled.

It's like two opposing armies fighting at night - one side is vastly outgunned, but the other lacks night-vision gear. By uploading the code, Shepard basically distributes night-vision gear to the other side.

The Geth are firing in the custscene when the Quarians attack. On the radio Admiral Garrel says: "The Geth have stopped firing. They're completely vulnerable." That's when the Quarians press their attack, rather than look for peace, as usual.

[DeinonSlayer]

Obadiah wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

How is it the people that ask these "why Geth kill Quarians" questions never ask why the Quarians destroyed every last Geth when the Geth lost their upgrades and were not firing?

The Geth were firing, you can see it in the cutscene. They were just combat-ineffective - their aim was scrambled.

It's like two opposing armies fighting at night - one side is vastly outgunned, but the other lacks night-vision gear. By uploading the code, Shepard basically distributes night-vision gear to the other side.

The Geth are firing in the custscene when the Quarians attack. On the radio Admiral Garrel says: "The Geth have stopped firing. They're completely vulnerable." That's when the Quarians press their attack, rather than look for peace, as usual.

Huh. Odd. At the beginning of the "destruction of the Geth" cutscene both sides can still be clearly seen firing.

Then again, the Codex entry says the Quarians are on the opposite side of the sun from the planet, too. How debris from the Quarian flotilla can reach the planet's surface from there is beyond me.

EDIT: By the way, love that "after-action" report in your sig.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 janvier 2013 - 07:20 .

[AlexMBrennan]

How is it the people that ask these "why Geth kill Quarians" questions never ask why the Quarians destroyed every last Geth when the Geth lost their upgrades and were not firing?

Bad writing resulting in a failure of suspension of disbelief.

As for the original question, the geth killing every last quarian would entail sending geth hit squads everywhere to search every last planet and space station for survivors to terminate. Where's your evidence that this did, in fact, occur? Stop making up stuff.

This leaves us with the geth killing quarians on ships engaged in active combat and firing on fleeing ships. I'd have to replay the game to comment on the latter so I won't on whether that is canonical fact; however the former is morally defensible (if an enemy used his wife as a human shield and started killing civilians then surely shooting them both acceptable if it's the only way to prevent more deaths).
On the other hand, fleeing civilian ships pose no imminent threat and our current rules of engagements would not allow targeting them, which suggests that the more extreme opinions voiced here are not the majority.

[Ticonderoga117]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Tali did. Legion severed communication.

If I were Shepard, the first order of business after the Collector base would have been to take Legion back to the Migrant Fleet and get this crap ironed out. Instead, both parties return to their respective sides of the fence and let the problem fester until the Reapers showed up.

And here's the issue. Not only are we forced to sit on our hands for 6 MONTHS were things like this can be ironed out, Shepard doesn't even try to stop the war after seeing the report that Quarians are being recalled and the Migrant fleet is arming for a fight.

Ugh.

[DeinonSlayer]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Tali did. Legion severed communication.

If I were Shepard, the first order of business after the Collector base would have been to take Legion back to the Migrant Fleet and get this crap ironed out. Instead, both parties return to their respective sides of the fence and let the problem fester until the Reapers showed up.

And here's the issue. Not only are we forced to sit on our hands for 6 MONTHS were things like this can be ironed out, Shepard doesn't even try to stop the war after seeing the report that Quarians are being recalled and the Migrant fleet is arming for a fight.

Ugh.

You know, I actually wrote up an entire alternate Priority: Rannoch where Shepard does just that. The idea is that you'd have a choice: address the Genophage arc first, and the Quarians go to war with the Geth as occurs in-game. Move to prevent a Quarian/Geth confrontation, and the bomb will detonate on Tuchanka in the meantime (Shepard only learns the story about the bomb after it goes off).

I didn't do Arrival, so Shepard's incarceration makes even less sense. <_<

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 20 janvier 2013 - 07:38 .

[Meltemph]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...
Tali did. Legion severed communication.

If I were Shepard, the first order of business after the Collector base would have been to take Legion back to the Migrant Fleet and get this crap ironed out. Instead, both parties return to their respective sides of the fence and let the problem fester until the Reapers showed up.

And here's the issue. Not only are we forced to sit on our hands for 6 MONTHS were things like this can be ironed out, Shepard doesn't even try to stop the war after seeing the report that Quarians are being recalled and the Migrant fleet is arming for a fight.

Ugh.

Well ya, the whole point to ignoring all of these issues was so we could have this scene.  For whatever reason, the ME3 lead writer decided they wanted every single emotional piece to be 100% based on our attachment to the setting(And then essetnailly end the setting by giving us 3 fundamentally different endings).

[Dhoozy77]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Dhoozy77 wrote...

It not like they could fight back being such on said glass canon. Once the heavy fleet was gone there were no reason to kill the children and hunt down every last quarian survivor.  It was hypocritcal of the geth to say " we regret the death of the creators" when clearly they could have spared some. 

1. Machines don't know what hypocrisy is.

2. The Geth attacked any ship that was shooting at them. If they'd taken the time to anaylyze the crew of 50,000 starships to see which ones had kids aboard, they would have been killed instead.

1. Of course they are that was why they hunt dowb every survivng quarian.

2. second you are treating them lime organics they are machines they could do the analysis in a fraction of a second.

As for the person that said the geth did not hunt down children and elderly  tali said it herself the geth do take prisoners.  All quarian found on the planet is killed or simply left to bleed out. That is the geth way. 

[Meltemph]

I didn't do Arrival, so Shepard's incarceration makes even less sense.

That is because they went with "cannon" decisions, your play-through didn't follow the cannon, and instead of filling the beginning of ME3 in with more then just the Arrival DLC, they said to bad, you did it wrong.

Modifié par Meltemph, 20 janvier 2013 - 07:42 .

[Ticonderoga117]

DeinonSlayer wrote...
You know, I actually wrote up an entire alternate Priority: Rannoch where Shepard does just that. The idea is that you'd have a choice: address the Genophage arc first, and the Quarians go to war with the Geth as occurs in-game. Move to prevent a Quarian/Geth confrontation, and the bomb will detonate on Tuchanka in the meantime (Shepard only learns the story about the bomb after it goes off).

I didn't do Arrival, so Shepard's incarceration makes even less sense. <_<

That would've been nice to see. But nope. *sigh*

And the whole house arrest thing is BS no matter how you slice it.

[WhiteKnyght]

Dhoozy77 wrote...

The Grey Nayr wrote...

Dhoozy77 wrote...

It not like they could fight back being such on said glass canon. Once the heavy fleet was gone there were no reason to kill the children and hunt down every last quarian survivor.  It was hypocritcal of the geth to say " we regret the death of the creators" when clearly they could have spared some. 

1. Machines don't know what hypocrisy is.

2. The Geth attacked any ship that was shooting at them. If they'd taken the time to anaylyze the crew of 50,000 starships to see which ones had kids aboard, they would have been killed instead.

1. Of course they are that was why they hunt dowb every survivng quarian.

2. second you are treating them lime organics they are machines they could do the analysis in a fraction of a second.

As for the person that said the geth did not hunt down children and elderly  tali said it herself the geth do take prisoners.  All quarian found on the planet is killed or simply left to bleed out. That is the geth way. 

Get over it.

The Quarians were always the ones who attacked the Geth. The Admirals chose to slap dreadnought level weapons on their civilian ships for extra firepower against the wishes of the civlians, knowing full well what could happen.

The Quarians brought it on themselves, the Geth have only, and always, acted in defense of their own existence. It doesn't matter if they're organic or synthetic, any being attacked would defend themselves the same way.