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Why did the geth kill every last child of the quarian after the upgrade?


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#126
Meltemph

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Seems that the difference is, you give the Geth the benefit of the doubt in these issues. Others don't. Nothing in-game says we have to.


I dont give them the benfit of the doubt. I just find the Quarians very irrational. However, I dont care about that, because if I ever had to choose between the Quarians or the Geth, I would go with the Quarians, simply because I dont trust the technology from the Leviathan/Reapers.

Taht said, I dont base my decsion with that scene on any of this.  Only their actions leading up to all this.  Who was at fault, to me, is a non sequitor.

Modifié par Meltemph, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:05 .


#127
DeinonSlayer

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Meltemph wrote...

Seems that the difference is, you give the Geth the benefit of the doubt in these issues. Others don't. Nothing in-game says we have to.


I dont give them the benfit of the doubt. I just find the Quarians very irrational. However, I dont care about that, because if I ever had to choose between the Quarians or the Geth, I would go with the Quarians, simply because I dont trust the technology from the Leviathan/Reapers.

Taht said, I dont base my decsion with that scene on any of this.  Only their actions leading up to all this.  Who was at fault, to me, is a non sequitor.

Fair enough. I don't trust the Reaper code either, and wish peace were possible without it. That said, I make peace when I can, but if I can't, I side with the Quarians, for that reason among others.

#128
Iamjdr

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It's the fact that they don't show you anything in-between those clips that is the unsettling part tho. They feel no remorse or regret for there actions.I have met multiple quarians who are against the war and have admitted to being at fault for there part in the morning war. Every Geth I meet besides legion has tried to murder me flat out and I heard legion say they couldn't finish the quarians because they didnt know what the repercussions would be not because it was wrong or they wanted to be merciful. And even then legion lies to me right after that. Hearing him say I judged you would agree or disagree so many times without telling me what he was gonna do before hand, you have to wonder what else he judged you would agree/disagree with but doesn't show you.

Modifié par Iamjdr, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:15 .


#129
Meltemph

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DeinonSlayer wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Seems that the difference is, you give the Geth the benefit of the doubt in these issues. Others don't. Nothing in-game says we have to.


I dont give them the benfit of the doubt. I just find the Quarians very irrational. However, I dont care about that, because if I ever had to choose between the Quarians or the Geth, I would go with the Quarians, simply because I dont trust the technology from the Leviathan/Reapers.

Taht said, I dont base my decsion with that scene on any of this.  Only their actions leading up to all this.  Who was at fault, to me, is a non sequitor.

Fair enough. I don't trust the Reaper code either, and wish peace were possible without it. That said, I make peace when I can, but if I can't, I side with the Quarians, for that reason among others.


As it stands, only Humans should make snythetics in this Galaxy, becaus in this setting we still are not a homoginized race.  This seems to mean means we have a healthy competition of idea's, so the idea that there would only ever be 1 type of synthetic, would just not be possible.  Hell chances are we would have 20 difference syntehtics, some bad some good, some neutral.

Because of this and our seeming ability to adapt and have more of a market for competing idea's between ourselves, that it appears only us and perhaps the Salarians could handle the idea of AI's.  Every "rebellion" in this setting came from races where there seemed to be a stagnation of competing idea's, since there was only 1 type of synthetic from each of the races who screwed up.

Apparently, freedom is a pretty massive theme in this setting.

Modifié par Meltemph, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:28 .


#130
DarthSliver

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I am sorry but the Quarians brought their own demise by repeating historical events. After 300 years the Quarian people still didnt learn they should try a different approach to the matter even if you bring Legion to Tali's Loyalty mission they still go to war. History lessons are there to learn from so you dont repeat them. Honestly if there wasnt a peace option I wouldve let the Geth wipe out the Quarians.

#131
Iamjdr

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How did they repet historical events exactly? this is there first attempt to take back rannoch from the Geth is it not?

#132
xBLAKx Skytop

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DarthSliver wrote...

I am sorry but the Quarians brought their own demise by repeating historical events. After 300 years the Quarian people still didnt learn they should try a different approach to the matter even if you bring Legion to Tali's Loyalty mission they still go to war. History lessons are there to learn from so you dont repeat them. Honestly if there wasnt a peace option I wouldve let the Geth wipe out the Quarians.


Your home has been stolen.

Any time you try to find a new one while avoiding confrontation, the Council steps on your throat.

So bend over and take it up the ass like a champ, cumshots and everything?

That's what they've been doing for the past 300 years.

You can only go so long before saying "F*** this S***, Enough of this 'Floating around in space in enviro-suits' BS, Give us back Rannoch, you can hand it to us, or we can take it from your corpse.

We're done being patient."

#133
xBLAKx Skytop

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Meltemph wrote...

DeinonSlayer wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Seems that the difference is, you give the Geth the benefit of the doubt in these issues. Others don't. Nothing in-game says we have to.


I dont give them the benfit of the doubt. I just find the Quarians very irrational. However, I dont care about that, because if I ever had to choose between the Quarians or the Geth, I would go with the Quarians, simply because I dont trust the technology from the Leviathan/Reapers.

Taht said, I dont base my decsion with that scene on any of this.  Only their actions leading up to all this.  Who was at fault, to me, is a non sequitor.

Fair enough. I don't trust the Reaper code either, and wish peace were possible without it. That said, I make peace when I can, but if I can't, I side with the Quarians, for that reason among others.


As it stands, only Humans should make snythetics in this Galaxy, becaus in this setting we still are not a homoginized race.  This seems to mean means we have a healthy competition of idea's, so the idea that there would only ever be 1 type of synthetic, would just not be possible.  Hell chances are we would have 20 difference syntehtics, some bad some good, some neutral.

Because of this and our seeming ability to adapt and have more of a market for competing idea's between ourselves, that it appears only us and perhaps the Salarians could handle the idea of AI's.  Every "rebellion" in this setting came from races where there seemed to be a stagnation of competing idea's, since there was only 1 type of synthetic from each of the races who screwed up.

Apparently, freedom is a pretty massive theme in this setting.


How about NOBODY makes them?

Because humans do such a good job of making AI's....

Right?



Right?

#134
Meltemph

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Who uses different fiction from a different setting, to make a point about a different setting... Are you ok? "Lets talk about synthetics", THE SKY IS BLUE! umm...ok.

#135
SeptimusMagistos

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xBLAKx Skytop wrote...

Your home has been stolen.

Any time you try to find a new one while avoiding confrontation, the Council steps on your throat.

So bend over and take it up the ass like a champ, cumshots and everything?

That's what they've been doing for the past 300 years.

You can only go so long before saying "F*** this S***, Enough of this 'Floating around in space in enviro-suits' BS, Give us back Rannoch, you can hand it to us, or we can take it from your corpse.

We're done being patient."


And then you get shot to pieces.

Brilliant strategy.

Iamjdr wrote...
 Hearing him say I judged you would agree or disagree so many times without telling me what he was gonna do before hand, you have to wonder what else he judged you would agree/disagree with but doesn't show you.


Honestly, he was right about a sufficient percentage of Shepards that I seriously don't blame him.

In my case the omission seemed like a weird kind of shyness since I was 100% on the side of the geth and the fact that he thought my reaction to the idea of upgrading the geth would be anything other than "do this thing as fast as possible" was laughable.

Modifié par SeptimusMagistos, 20 janvier 2013 - 11:49 .


#136
Iamjdr

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Actually the quarians were winning till the Geth ran to the reapers for help...and shyness he was hiding reaper tech from you! If he really judged that I would agree then he should have had the quads to let me decided for myself rather then hide those things from me and suger coat everything else he shows me. He let me decide before during his loyalty mission, what changed?

#137
xBLAKx Skytop

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SeptimusMagistos wrote...

xBLAKx Skytop wrote...

Your home has been stolen.

Any time you try to find a new one while avoiding confrontation, the Council steps on your throat.

So bend over and take it up the ass like a champ, cumshots and everything?

That's what they've been doing for the past 300 years.

You can only go so long before saying "F*** this S***, Enough of this 'Floating around in space in enviro-suits' BS, Give us back Rannoch, you can hand it to us, or we can take it from your corpse.

We're done being patient."


And then you get shot to pieces.

Brilliant strategy.

Iamjdr wrote...
 Hearing him say I judged you would agree or disagree so many times without telling me what he was gonna do before hand, you have to wonder what else he judged you would agree/disagree with but doesn't show you.


Honestly, he was right about a sufficient percentage of Shepards that I seriously don't blame him.

In my case the omission seemed like a weird kind of shyness since I was 100% on the side of the geth and the fact that he thought my reaction to the idea of upgrading the geth would be anything other than "do this thing as fast as possible" was laughable.


Well, if it makes you feel better they could have thrown asteroids at Rannoch after blowing up their Dyson Sphere they left so prominently displayed, destroying the rest of the servers.

What's that? They just wanted their planet back?

Maybe if the Geth had left Rannoch and taken refuge at...Oh I don't know....

ANY other planet in the galaxy (Synthetics aren't exactly picky when it comes to Climate)

#138
Reorte

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xBLAKx Skytop wrote...

ANY other planet in the galaxy (Synthetics aren't exactly picky when it comes to Climate)

What was all that geth climate stuff in ME2 about?

#139
TheCrazyHobo

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If I remember correctly, the Quarians went "all in" with their war effort meaning everything they owned was turned into a weapon. They even figured out a way to steal Thanix Based weapons and put them on their giant live-ships.

Everything they had was calculated as a threat by the Geth.

#140
silverexile17s

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SeptimusMagistos wrote...

xBLAKx Skytop wrote...

Your home has been stolen.

Any time you try to find a new one while avoiding confrontation, the Council steps on your throat.

So bend over and take it up the ass like a champ, cumshots and everything?

That's what they've been doing for the past 300 years.

You can only go so long before saying "F*** this S***, Enough of this 'Floating around in space in enviro-suits' BS, Give us back Rannoch, you can hand it to us, or we can take it from your corpse.

We're done being patient."


And then you get shot to pieces.

Brilliant strategy.

Iamjdr wrote...
 Hearing him say I judged you would agree or disagree so many times without telling me what he was gonna do before hand, you have to wonder what else he judged you would agree/disagree with but doesn't show you.


Honestly, he was right about a sufficient percentage of Shepards that I seriously don't blame him.

In my case the omission seemed like a weird kind of shyness since I was 100% on the side of the geth and the fact that he thought my reaction to the idea of upgrading the geth would be anything other than "do this thing as fast as possible" was laughable.

Well, to be honest, Xen's weapons made winning pretty damn believable.
Well, until the Reapers came in to subjugate the now-weakened geth. And since the quarians were the ones that weakened them, yeah, the quarians had a part in this mess.

BUT, you CAN'T tell me the geth were wholy innocent. Even if they didn't wan't harm to come to organics, they still put their priroities first. They let the rest of the Galaxy deal with the Heretic problem they created, because the Heretics "were no longer part of them." So they figured "not our problem anymore."
If the Alliance had tried that with Cerberus, they would have gotten censorship instantly. Why should the geth get a free pass?
I know they had readons. Yes, they were pressed in the Morning War, and it was do or die. But I find it hard to believe the situation was SO desprate for the geth, that they found it absolutly nessessary to slaughter "millions upon millions of quarians" in such a relitively short amount of time. They were either rushed, or extremely overzelous in self-preservation of themselves. Although, it could be argueble about their mental state, geive they were a "young, impressionable race" at the time.

But still, in regards to the next war in ME3, yes, the geth were forced into joining the Reapers, because Xen's weapons blinded them, and the attack on the megastructure was probably like a sudden lobotomy without ahnistehic. And the quarians kicked them while down .So when someone came to them offering to make the pain stop and save them from the "thugs," the reflexively reached out. And subsiquently couldn't back out again.

BUT, I can't help but believe that had the geth not been so isolated from the galaxy, that the war would never have happened. They cut themselves off from everyone else, so no one had any idea what-so-ever that they didn't want war. Also, they never tried to open diolouges with the quairans. They never took risks, like that maybe the quarians might listen to them. Or at the very least, hear the messege. Even if nobody believed it, it would have been a START. A beginning to work from in trying to reunify them.

BOTH sides are at fault. The quarians for being too agressive. And the geth for being too sendentary.

And in my personal opinion, that was THE ONE THING I downright HATED about the Rannoch Arc.
I'm a geth sympathizer, and even I felt like they were trying too hard to force-feed people the "Geth are poor misunderstood and abused cherubs. Feel sad and guilty for them, or your a Renagade bastard."

GOOD GOD!

I expected to see them lay out all these conflicting reasons. I expected both sides to look at themselves and realize they needed to stop blaiming each other and realize that they had equal fault in this mess.
For the quarians to realize that if they hadn't been so rash, they wouldn't be trapped like this. That they let their old hates bring them to the brink of desperation.
For the geth to realize that had they not been so isolated, they wouldn't be hated and enslaved to the Reapers. That they blamed the quarians for everything in the war, and ignoring that not everything was simply "reaction."
I expected to have a hard time sorting through and figuring out which side had true justification for thei actions. Or if either one really did have justifacation at all.

Instead, i got:
"The quarians are ingroant dicks. Thats' the entire reason this happened. The geth are totally inncoent, misunderstood and abused."

And with that, deep and moving motivations for the story went right out the window for me, in regards to Rannoch.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 21 janvier 2013 - 02:30 .


#141
silverexile17s

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Reorte wrote...

xBLAKx Skytop wrote...

ANY other planet in the galaxy (Synthetics aren't exactly picky when it comes to Climate)

What was all that geth climate stuff in ME2 about?

Unknown. It's never refrenced again.
It may have been a plot point at one time, but if so, it either never made it into development, or was cut.

#142
3DandBeyond

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Here's the thing about this whole mess. What happened is the quarians decided to attack the geth while the reapers were invading. In the midst of attacking, the geth received a signal from the reapers which was likely some method being used to assert control. Also, in the discussion of what happened, the quarians make it clear that it was they who used the civilian ships along with the military to attack. Admiral Koris gets quite mad about it.

The reapers had inserted themselves into the conflict-the geth did not ask for their help and the admirals tell that they intercepted a reaper communication to the geth just after they started attacking the geth and drove them back. And it is specifically said that the geth are under reaper control. Nothing is said about the geth asking the reapers to help them. Or that they purposely started attacking civilian ships to kill quarian children. So, both suppositions are incorrect.

As for the right or the wrong of the whole thing, you may say it's debatable.  But...
All the geth did was what the quarians had set in motion-they evolved and became true AIs.  The quarians became afraid of not what the geth had done, but what they might do and what might happen if it was found out that they had created true AIs-since that was not allowed by the council.

The geth had never shot a weapon until weapons were used against them.  Some quarians tried to protect the geth and were punished by quarians.  Some geth tried to protect quarians and suffered as well.

The original geth that fought back against the conflict may well have never understood what was happening and why they had been targeted for destruction by their creators-people they very likely wanted to emulate.  The fact that they stayed on the world where they were born is evidence of some sort of bond with their creators and even a childishness about them.  Even Legion shows that in many respects they are children looking for approval.

The original geth backed off and then having seen just what happened and what they did, they showed remorse.  It may be that they didn't even know how efficient they would be at killing the quarians.

The true geth were not absolving themselves of blame for the heretics; they were not equipped to handle the problem and Legion was looking for help.  That fact is clear when the ability to rewrite the heretics is possible.  The geth need a consensus agreement to act-they can't help being what they are and cannot act without consensus.  They needed outside intervention.

In both the case of the heretic geth and the ME3 situation where the reapers are involved, the geth never asked the reapers to help, but were in one case controlled by the reapers and in the other at a minimum misled about what the reapers would do for them.  The heretics big failing was that they wanted to evolve faster and the reapers promised to make that happen-Sovereign promised it and was considered a god to the heretics.  The geth in ME3 were under the influence of the reapers when in a weakened state.  The loss of any geth weakens the whole hive or collective, so losing a lot of geth really weakens them-that made it possible for the reapers to enter in and try to control them.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 21 janvier 2013 - 02:41 .


#143
silverexile17s

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Here's the thing about this whole mess. What happened is the quarians decided to attack the geth while the reapers were invading. In the midst of attacking, the geth received a signal from the reapers which was likely some method being used to assert control. Also, in the discussion of what happened, the quarians make it clear that it was they who used the civilian ships along with the military to attack. Admiral Koris gets quite mad about it.

The reapers had inserted themselves into the conflict-the geth did not ask for their help and the admirals tell that they intercepted a reaper communication to the geth just after they started attacking the geth and drove them back. And it is specifically said that the geth are under reaper control. Nothing is said about the geth asking the reapers to help them. Or that they purposely started attacking civilian ships to kill quarian children. So, both suppositions are incorrect.

The Reapers didn't intervine until AFTER the quairians attacked. They made the offer to help, after the geth were driven to the brink. Legion himself makes that quite clear.  As do the quarians, as they say that the Reapers don't begin broadcasting the control signal until after the quarians had driven them back to Rannoch. Which would be at least fifteen days after the quarians launched the attach against Rannoch. Yes, the Reapers waited until the geth were weakened to make the offer, but the geth still chose to accept. Good reasons, and desperation, or not. It was still their choice. You own that, no matter what stress reactions you were infulenced by.

And they armed the liveships because they had no choice but to bring them. If not, they would have had to leave them somewhere. And since they needed every combat ship, they would have had to leave the liveships unprotected. And where is it safe to leave them, unprotected, in a galaxy under siege?
There was no where else to go. It was either take back Rannoch, and have a place where the civilians could stay safe for the war. Or, throw everything at the Reapers, and ensure that most, if not all, of the civilian population dies, since those would be the first targets of the Reapers.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 21 janvier 2013 - 02:38 .


#144
3DandBeyond

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silverexile17s wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Here's the thing about this whole mess. What happened is the quarians decided to attack the geth while the reapers were invading. In the midst of attacking, the geth received a signal from the reapers which was likely some method being used to assert control. Also, in the discussion of what happened, the quarians make it clear that it was they who used the civilian ships along with the military to attack. Admiral Koris gets quite mad about it.

The reapers had inserted themselves into the conflict-the geth did not ask for their help and the admirals tell that they intercepted a reaper communication to the geth just after they started attacking the geth and drove them back. And it is specifically said that the geth are under reaper control. Nothing is said about the geth asking the reapers to help them. Or that they purposely started attacking civilian ships to kill quarian children. So, both suppositions are incorrect.

The Reapers didn't intervine until AFTER the quairians attacked. They made the offer to help, after the geth were driven to the brink. Legion himself makes that quite clear.  As do the quarians, as they say that the Reapers don't begin broadcasting the control signal until after the quarians had driven them back to Rannoch. Which would be at least fifteen days after the quarians launched the attach against Rannoch. Yes, the Reapers waited until the geth were weakened to make the offer, but the geth still chose to accept. Good reasons, and desperation, or not. It was still their choice. You own that, no matter what stress reactions you were infulenced by.

And they armed the liveships because they had no choice but to bring them. If not, they would have had to leave them somewhere. And since they needed every combat ship, they would have had to leave the liveships unprotected. And where is it safe to leave them, unprotected, in a galaxy under siege?
There was no where else to go. It was either take back Rannoch, and have a place where the civilians could stay safe for the war. Or, throw everything at the Reapers, and ensure that most, if not all, of the civilian population dies, since those would be the first targets of the Reapers.


Yes, that's what I'm saying.  I said that.  The reapers intervened after the geth had been driven back by the quarians, AFTER the attack.  The geth may well have accepted an "offer of help" but since they were in a very weakened state, they most likely had no ability to refuse that "help".

I'm sorry but the quarians at some point also have to own up to what they have consistently done.  The time to try and take back Rannoch is while the rest of the galaxy is fighting for just survival? 

And no, Admiral Koris makes it clear that using the civilian ships was a mistake as was the whole stupid thing.  And the slim chance remains that if they had decided to actually help the rest of the galaxy and started acting like they owned part of the blame for the problem, they might have made a real contribution in fighting the reapers.  But if they watched the rest of the galaxy just burn away, well goodbye any hope for Rannoch.  Stupid.


The geth then controlled by the reapers attacked mainly the civilian ships because the reapers wanted them to-that's the only thing that makes sense.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 21 janvier 2013 - 04:14 .


#145
3DandBeyond

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Hmm, this is interesting since even Tali somewhat understands that the geth merely wished to live and found they had no choice but to accept the reapers' help which then turned into complete control. She acquiesces when talking about it with Legion and the others basically say the geth wanted to survive and felt they had no choice.   In my game I took Liara along on the dreadnought.  Tali starts off saying there's no excuse for getting help from the reapers (well, who else was going to help the geth this time-Shepard was busy).  Then, Liara says they felt they had no choice.  And so then Tali gets mad at the quarians and says she told them to attack was a mistake. 

At the end of the game, people think it's a great idea to decide to accept the kid's (er, the reapers') help to end the war against the reapers, but now it makes no sense for a species (the geth) to accept the reapers' help to survive against an enemy that is not the reapers (the quarians) that tried to exterminate them before and has a good chance of doing so now.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 21 janvier 2013 - 03:31 .


#146
silverexile17s

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3DandBeyond wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Here's the thing about this whole mess. What happened is the quarians decided to attack the geth while the reapers were invading. In the midst of attacking, the geth received a signal from the reapers which was likely some method being used to assert control. Also, in the discussion of what happened, the quarians make it clear that it was they who used the civilian ships along with the military to attack. Admiral Koris gets quite mad about it.

The reapers had inserted themselves into the conflict-the geth did not ask for their help and the admirals tell that they intercepted a reaper communication to the geth just after they started attacking the geth and drove them back. And it is specifically said that the geth are under reaper control. Nothing is said about the geth asking the reapers to help them. Or that they purposely started attacking civilian ships to kill quarian children. So, both suppositions are incorrect.

The Reapers didn't intervine until AFTER the quairians attacked. They made the offer to help, after the geth were driven to the brink. Legion himself makes that quite clear.  As do the quarians, as they say that the Reapers don't begin broadcasting the control signal until after the quarians had driven them back to Rannoch. Which would be at least fifteen days after the quarians launched the attach against Rannoch. Yes, the Reapers waited until the geth were weakened to make the offer, but the geth still chose to accept. Good reasons, and desperation, or not. It was still their choice. You own that, no matter what stress reactions you were infulenced by.

And they armed the liveships because they had no choice but to bring them. If not, they would have had to leave them somewhere. And since they needed every combat ship, they would have had to leave the liveships unprotected. And where is it safe to leave them, unprotected, in a galaxy under siege?
There was no where else to go. It was either take back Rannoch, and have a place where the civilians could stay safe for the war. Or, throw everything at the Reapers, and ensure that most, if not all, of the civilian population dies, since those would be the first targets of the Reapers.


Yes, that's what I'm saying.  I said that.  The reapers intervened after the geth had been driven back by the quarians, AFTER the attack.  The geth may well have accepted an "offer of help" but since they were in a very weakened state, they most likely had no ability to refuse that "help".

I'm sorry but the quarians at some point also have to own up to what they have consistently done.  The time to try and take back Rannoch is while the rest of the galaxy is fighting for just survival? 

And no, Admiral Koris makes it clear that using the civilian ships was a mistake as was the whole stupid thing.  And the slim chance remains that if they had decided to actually help the rest of the galaxy and started acting like they owned part of the blame for the problem, they might have made a real contribution in fighting the reapers.  But if they watched the rest of the galaxy just burn away, well goodbye any hope for Rannoch.  Stupid.


The geth then controlled by the reapers attacked mainly the civilian ships because the reapers wanted them to-that's the only thing that makes sense.

But the geth don't ever acknolodge that it was any failing of morals, or moment of weakness on their part. They never accept that they willingly chose that path. They blame the quarians for forcing that on them, in a conflict that they themselves could have prevented had the not been so isolated.

And as for timing, what else COULD they do? The galaxy was literally going to hell in a fraking hand-basket. No one was going to give then shelter or refuge, and they would eventually be pressed to fight the Reapers. If they did that with the civilian ships, it would have doomed them instantly, as the Reapers would have imediately gone after those ships.
It was desperation for their people. The same desperation that drove the geth to side with the Reapers. You can't begrudge one and not the other for the same action.

And again, if they didn't bring the Civilian Ships, they would have had to leave them unprotected in a galaxy being overrun by Reapers, since they needed every combat-ready ship to go to Rannoch, and thus, couldn't spare any ship to stay.
Leaving the liveships behind - THAT'S a damn mistake. At least this way, with Xen's supposed victory-sealing weapons, there was a high chance of winning. They would have their world back, and they could drop their people in right then and there, and send the now vaciant ships off to fight the Reapers with no worry.
And again, you misinterperted it. It's not using the ships that gets Koris in such a lather. He knew that bringing them was nessessary, since they can't afford to split the fleet when the entire galaxy is falling apart. He doesn't like it, but he knows it's nessessary.
What gets him upset is the refusal to retreat from the fight after it celarly turns against them. THAT was the mistake, NOT the liveships coming. They had no CHOICE in bringing the liveships.
It's not stupid. It's desperation.  You can't ignore how the geth fall into it by siding with the Reapers, while accusing the quarians of being in the wrong for it.

And the geth attacked the liveships because they were armed and shooting. The quarians armed them so that if the combat ships fell, the liveships wouldn't be defensless. The could also back up the other ships if things got tense.
The Reapers didn't NEED to order them - the attacked anything shooting on reflex.

#147
silverexile17s

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3DandBeyond wrote...

Hmm, this is interesting since even Tali somewhat understands that the geth merely wished to live and found they had no choice but to accept the reapers' help which then turned into complete control. She acquiesces when talking about it with Legion and the others basically say the geth wanted to survive and felt they had no choice.   In my game I took Liara along on the dreadnought.  Tali starts off saying there's no excuse for getting help from the reapers (well, who else was going to help the geth this time-Shepard was busy).  Then, Liara says they felt they had no choice.  And so then Tali gets mad at the quarians and says she told them to attack was a mistake. 

At the end of the game, people think it's a great idea to decide to accept the kid's (er, the reapers') help to end the war against the reapers, but now it makes no sense for a species (the geth) to accept the reapers' help to survive against an enemy that is not the reapers (the quarians) that tried to exterminate them before and has a good chance of doing so now.


If the geth hadn't stayed in isolation so long, the quarians feelings would never have festered into such hatrid.
It doesn't MATTER that they never ment harm to other organics, because they never TOLD ANYONE THAT. What, where the quarians supposed to use ESP to suddenly figure out that all they had to do to get Rannoch back was ask?
How the hell could they have known when the geth (a) never talked to anyone, (B) killed anyone that went into the Veil to find them, © did abso-friggen-lutly nothing while the Heretics carved up the Citadel fleet, the Citadel, and half the Attacan Traverse, (d) did zilch-zero-zip-nada to stop the Heretics from going with the Reapers in the first place, knowing full well the damage to organics thwy would cause, and saying they "accepted" their reasons for killing them, or (e) didn't even come out to tell anyone that the Heretics actions were not a representation of how  the rest of them felt?

And it's easy to accuse them of feeling like they had no choice, whem that same thing applies to the quarian's attack!
And with the Balak siding with the humans he hates so much, in order to save his people.
And with the turians agreeing to cure the Genophage for the krogan, in order to save their people.
Desperation is rampan in everyone when the galaxy is coming apart at the seams. You can't belittle the quarians for the same "desperation" mentality, yet condone the geth's use of it.

For the quarians, it was either "find a defensible place where getting a ruptured suit won't be a death warrent" or die.
Desperation. You can't blame them for that, then defend the geth for it.

#148
Funkdrspot

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This issue requires that you think abstractly in the 3rd person POV of a species that is logic driven.

Look throughout our own huma history. Sparing children while killing adults is the moral thing to do but it is not the logical thing. Why? Because children who lose thir parents become adults who live in blind hatred and revenge. At a certain point it becoms a cycle, only to be stopped by moments of peace.

#149
KiwiQuiche

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SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dhoozy77 wrote...

They genocidally and vindicitvely finish the entire fleet off.


The last time they let quarians leave peacefully the quarians came back and tried to kill them all again.


Quarians seem to be slow learners. :mellow:

#150
silverexile17s

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KiwiQuiche wrote...

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

Dhoozy77 wrote...

They genocidally and vindicitvely finish the entire fleet off.


The last time they let quarians leave peacefully the quarians came back and tried to kill them all again.


Quarians seem to be slow learners. :mellow:

Well, honestly, I doubt they would have lanched such a brash and desprate attack if not for the Reapers laying waste to every other refuge in the galaxy.