320 réponses à ce sujet

[KiwiQuiche]

Gam3Ov3r wrote...

 Maybe Shepard was some how teleported back to Earth.

Well, the Normandy did managed to teleport from space to Earth in five seconds during the conduit run, so it's not that far-fetched...

[Smeffects]

samurai crusade wrote...

Smeffects wrote...

How about this gem of writing. Its told in that during the prothean cycle the first thing Reapers did was to close the relay system so their fleets couldnt do anything. Mass effect 3 reaper control the citadel, moves it to earth, LET the relay system open for any clown to attack? Does it sound like good writing to you, to let the relays open to indoctrinate a single man, when they could have achieved victory on earth so easily? Would have been months before the fleet even reach earth without relay.

the reapers wanted the allies to attack. They knew by putting the citadel at earth, there would be no choice but to have the final battle at earth.  It limits the variables of an already unpredictable enemy.    Remember, there were only minor difference between this cycle and every other. (The keepers not responding to the citadel, and te completion of the crucible being the only differences).    

Again that would make reapers idiot. Its already explained why they closed the relays before, they not let them coordinate an attack. Basicly if they closed the relay as soon as they had control of the citadel, the fleet would have been dispatched and stuck at loactions across the galaxy, impossible to coordinate any attack togheter anyway. Their old way was to attack one system at a time en mass, which they started doing on earth. There is nothing short of idiocy to explain it. They didnt need to even move the citadel, if the relay is closed, reaching it takes months. How would the fleet still have fuel to even combat?

[Invisibilly]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Gam3Ov3r wrote...

Maybe Shepard was some how teleported back to Earth.

Teleported. In Mass Effect.

The beam on Earth teleported him to the citadel didnt it?

[BleedingUranium]

Smeffects wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Smeffects wrote...

How about this gem of writing. Its told in that during the prothean cycle the first thing Reapers did was to close the relay system so their fleets couldnt do anything. Mass effect 3 reaper control the citadel, moves it to earth, LET the relay system open for any clown to attack? Does it sound like good writing to you, to let the relays open to indoctrinate a single man, when they could have achieved victory on earth so easily? Would have been months before the fleet even reach earth without relay.

So they could destroy the vast majority of the galaxy's military in one go. And since the Crucible is likely a Reaper device of some sort, they want it delivered to the Citadel.

Thats not how reapers opperated. They could have had an easier time connecting the crucible in an attrition war, the fleet would have never even made it to earth. Nothing stops the reaper from taking the crucible after the fleet failed. But then again, why would they need the crucible docked if they had already asured victory? Their idiocy is contrivied and their need for the crucible is forced to make an epic show down over earth with the pretty citadel flying over. ITS FORCED ****.

Because they likely need the Crucible docked.

At any rate this conversation is pointless, as I specifically said to explain it without using "bad riting lulz".

[Smeffects]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Smeffects wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Smeffects wrote...

How about this gem of writing. Its told in that during the prothean cycle the first thing Reapers did was to close the relay system so their fleets couldnt do anything. Mass effect 3 reaper control the citadel, moves it to earth, LET the relay system open for any clown to attack? Does it sound like good writing to you, to let the relays open to indoctrinate a single man, when they could have achieved victory on earth so easily? Would have been months before the fleet even reach earth without relay.

So they could destroy the vast majority of the galaxy's military in one go. And since the Crucible is likely a Reaper device of some sort, they want it delivered to the Citadel.

Thats not how reapers opperated. They could have had an easier time connecting the crucible in an attrition war, the fleet would have never even made it to earth. Nothing stops the reaper from taking the crucible after the fleet failed. But then again, why would they need the crucible docked if they had already asured victory? Their idiocy is contrivied and their need for the crucible is forced to make an epic show down over earth with the pretty citadel flying over. ITS FORCED ****.

Because they likely need the Crucible docked.

At any rate this conversation is pointless, as I specifically said to explain it without using "bad riting lulz".

Ok ill make a logical arguement like you then, explain this crap at all without bad/contrived writing? They have to all be explained togheter logically without inflicting each other, they are in the same game afterall.

-Explain why they need the crucible if they have already a viable way to win.
-Explain how the normandy teleports back in less then 5 minute to the relay leading to the citadel ready to help on the attack (mass relay travel is far from this speed) after illos.
-Explain why they didnt just let the fleet die in space without relay then take the crucible without any risk, they never took risks before?
-Explain why sovereign went to fight shepard on foot and risk his shield disabled when he was already beating the fleet without the reaper army, why did he take a risk? Sounds like an idiot to me, oh but sovereign was the only reaper with a deseign flaw! Sounds like contrived bull**** to me?
-Why does the mass effect 2 plot even exit?
-Explain how they took the citadel, the location where most of the non alliance fleet was, without a giant combat taking place? Since they succeded why wasent a massive ammount of the fleet already destroyed in that incident? Sound like the taking of the citadel, was done off screen and highly contrivient to make the final plot "cool".

Modifié par Smeffects, 21 janvier 2013 - 06:45 .

[BleedingUranium]

Smeffects wrote...

Ok ill make a logical arguement like you then, explain this crap at all without bad/contrived writing?

-Explain why they need the crucible if they have already a viable way to win.
-Explain how the normandy teleports back in less then 5 minute to the relay leading to the citadel ready to help on the attack (mass relay travel is far from this speed) after illos.
-Explain why they didnt just let the fleet die in space without relay then take the crucible without any risk, they never took risks before?
-Explain why sovereign went to fight shepard on foot and risk his shield disabled when he was already beating the fleet without the reaper army, why did he take a risk? Sounds like an idiot to me, oh but sovereign was the only reaper with a deseign flaw! Sounds like contrived bull**** to me?
-Why does the mass effect 2 plot even exit?
-Explain how they took the citadel, the location where most of the fleet non alliance fleet was, without a giant combat taking place? Since they succeded why wasent a massive ammount of the fleet already destroyed in that incident? Sound like the taking of the citadel, was done off screen and highly contrivient to make the final plot "cool".

There are logical reasons for all of those and/or there's nothing wrong with them to begin with.

Bad writing must be proven, not the other way around.

[GreyLycanTrope]

It's a ****** poor and unconvincing execution alright, but that can be said about a good chunk of the last few minutes of the game so nothing new there.

[Smeffects]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Smeffects wrote...

Ok ill make a logical arguement like you then, explain this crap at all without bad/contrived writing?

-Explain why they need the crucible if they have already a viable way to win.
-Explain how the normandy teleports back in less then 5 minute to the relay leading to the citadel ready to help on the attack (mass relay travel is far from this speed) after illos.
-Explain why they didnt just let the fleet die in space without relay then take the crucible without any risk, they never took risks before?
-Explain why sovereign went to fight shepard on foot and risk his shield disabled when he was already beating the fleet without the reaper army, why did he take a risk? Sounds like an idiot to me, oh but sovereign was the only reaper with a deseign flaw! Sounds like contrived bull**** to me?
-Why does the mass effect 2 plot even exit?
-Explain how they took the citadel, the location where most of the fleet non alliance fleet was, without a giant combat taking place? Since they succeded why wasent a massive ammount of the fleet already destroyed in that incident? Sound like the taking of the citadel, was done off screen and highly contrivient to make the final plot "cool".

There are logical reasons for all of those and/or there's nothing wrong with them to begin with.

Bad writing must be proven, not the other way around.

I see you reseign to even answer a single one. Typical. Everything must be proven in life, not just your opposition arguements.

[BleedingUranium]

Greylycantrope wrote...

It's a ****** poor and unconvincing execution alright, but that can be said about a good chunk of the last few minutes of the game so nothing new there.

Got something that isn't "bad riting"?

[Smeffects]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It's a ****** poor and unconvincing execution alright, but that can be said about a good chunk of the last few minutes of the game so nothing new there.

Got something that isn't "bad riting"?

Got something that isnt IT or no answer at all to the plot holes before IT? What do you answer to that? Every side can play the idiocy denial game too?

IT can be real and its still a game filled with terrible plot holes is where i was getting at. Im in the middle of this conflict and i think its hillarous how both sides try to make sense of this crap. Lets make a bunch of idiotic war mistakes so we can indoctrinate one man, when we already have assured victory!!! Not contrivied bull**** at all.

Modifié par Smeffects, 21 janvier 2013 - 06:56 .

[KBomb]

The blast would have had to contain a temperature of around 1800 degrees to incinerate Shepard and even then it wouldn't be instant incineration. There would have been bone fragments either way.

Considering the silliness of having this conversation, I would say the blast would have thrown him backward, definitely not vaporizing him on the spot.

If you argue that this is a fantasy world where logic about complete incineration doesn't apply, then you have to concede that he could, in fact, survive the explosion on that same logic.

[Turbo_J]

Smeffects wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It's a ****** poor and unconvincing execution alright, but that can be said about a good chunk of the last few minutes of the game so nothing new there.

Got something that isn't "bad riting"?

Got something that isnt IT or no answer at all to the plot holes before IT? What do you answer to that? Every side can play the idiocy denial game too?

I do

'Your memories give voice to our words.'

[BleedingUranium]

Smeffects wrote...

-Explain why they need the crucible if they have already a viable way to win.

We don't know why they might need it, there are several things it could be that have nothing to do with winning.

-Explain how the normandy teleports back in less then 5 minute to the relay leading to the citadel ready to help on the attack (mass relay travel is far from this speed) after illos.

Five minutes? Pretty sure it was much longer than that.

-Explain why they didnt just let the fleet die in space without relay then take the crucible without any risk, they never took risks before?

Hubris. That's a bit of a theme with Reapers. And getting it all over with at once.

-Explain why sovereign went to fight shepard on foot and risk his shield disabled when he was already beating the fleet without the reaper army, why did he take a risk? Sounds like an idiot to me, oh but sovereign was the only reaper with a deseign flaw! Sounds like contrived bull**** to me?

I seriously doubt that was something he was aware of.

-Why does the mass effect 2 plot even exit?

To stop the abduction of hundreds of thousands of humans, to defeat the minions of the Reapers, the Collectors, and to stop the creation of a Reaper. And that's just the main plot.

-Explain how they took the citadel, the location where most of the fleet non alliance fleet was, without a giant combat taking place? Since they succeded why wasent a massive ammount of the fleet already destroyed in that incident? Sound like the taking of the citadel, was done off screen and highly contrivient to make the final plot "cool".

It's quite possible they had agents inside close the arms like Saren did, but we don't know.

[MegaSovereign]

Turbo_J wrote...

Smeffects wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It's a ****** poor and unconvincing execution alright, but that can be said about a good chunk of the last few minutes of the game so nothing new there.

Got something that isn't "bad riting"?

Got something that isnt IT or no answer at all to the plot holes before IT? What do you answer to that? Every side can play the idiocy denial game too?

I do

'Your memories give voice to our words.'

So the Leviathans are giving me my endings because raisins.

[Lokanaiya]

You're straying from the subject here, which is the breath scene. But, to counter your examples of bad writing, I raise you one detailed Codex entry from Omega:

Ramport Mechs-
Though its initial invasion of Omega was successful. Cerberus was soon faced with the problem of controlling the station's large and often lawless population. An initial solution was to establish detainment  areas bordered with impassable force fields, believed to be sheets of plasma suspended in a magnetic field. As Cerberus tightened its control of the station, units that could pass freely through force fields to police the populace became necessary, leading Cerberus engineers to recover LOKI security mechs from the remaining Eclipse mercenary chapters. When upgraded with Cerberus's proprietary mini-fabrication technology, shielding recovered from Omega's element zero processing plants, and additional ablative armor, the result was the Rampart mech, a flexible combat unit designed for control and intimidation of Omega's inhabitants. Rampart mechs can seek out targets or troublemakers anywhere on Omega, even lower industrial areas where radiation can be intense. It is
fitted with infrasound and scent markers that are "fight or flight" triggers for several species and are intended to subdue or disperse a crowd. When necessary, Rampart mechs can channel all available power  into generating a high-intensity shield that defends against hacking or biotic attacks and weapons fire, protecting the Rampart until
reinforcements arrive. For combat, most Rampart mechs are equipped with a standard issue shotgun; if damaged beyond repair, the Rampart mech destroys the shotgun's aluminum-alloy heat-dispersal sinks, coating any nearby assailants in red-hot residue that burns through armor.

In extreme situations, the Rampart mech overclocks into a  "hunter-killer" mode, diverting power from its unique shields to single-mindedly destroy its target. In this mode, the Rampart mech moves faster, attacking with a flash-forged omni-blade that targets unprotected nerve clusters and immobilizes the luckless target. The
Rampart also channels excess heat through the dispersal sinks, visibly burning off material to create an intimidating display as it advances.

(Source)

One concerning an optional heavy weapon on the last level of Rannoch:

Like the geth plasma shotgun, the Spitfire is not a true energy weapon. Instead, the minigun magnetically flings clusters of superconducting toroids. These donut-shaped projectiles are designed to shatter upon impact, arcing electricity between the fragments and flash-converting them to plasma. The gun's punishing,
automatic blasts impact with the heat of a cutting torch. The weapon's stopping power has garnered the attention of both Alliance and quarian intelligence, who theorize that the Spitfire may have been designed to destroy other geth. Enough Spitfires have been found in the field to suggest that the weapon is out of the prototyping stage, and that a schism among synthetics may have forced them into production.

(Source)

And one massive Fridge Logic article from TV Tropes... And that's just the begining. There are MANY more detailed and scientifically accurate codex entries in Mass Effect.

Sorry, it's obvious ME writers put a lot of thought into what they wrote. Except for the ending apparently. Hmmm, I wonder why...

Edit: Formatting

Modifié par Lokanaiya, 21 janvier 2013 - 07:04 .

[Peranor]

GT Zazzerka wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Shepard is completely vaporized. Explain the breath scene without using "bad riting" or handwaving.

That's the thing. You know full well we can't.

Thinly veiled IT thread is thinly veiled.

Indeed

[BleedingUranium]

KBomb wrote...

The blast would have had to contain a temperature of around 1800 degrees to incinerate Shepard and even then it wouldn't be instant incineration. There would have been bone fragments either way.

Considering the silliness of having this conversation, I would say the blast would have thrown him backward, definitely not vaporizing him on the spot.

If you argue that this is a fantasy world where logic about complete incineration doesn't apply, then you have to concede that he could, in fact, survive the explosion on that same logic.

Then it was that hot, because Shepard was incinerated.

[MacroSpamMK]

Smeffects wrote...
Ok ill make a logical arguement like you then, explain this crap at all without bad/contrived writing? They have to all be explained togheter logically without inflicting each other, they are in the same game afterall.

-Explain why they need the crucible if they have already a viable way to win.
-Explain how the normandy teleports back in less then 5 minute to the relay leading to the citadel ready to help on the attack (mass relay travel is far from this speed) after illos.
-Explain why they didnt just let the fleet die in space without relay then take the crucible without any risk, they never took risks before?
-Explain why sovereign went to fight shepard on foot and risk his shield disabled when he was already beating the fleet without the reaper army, why did he take a risk? Sounds like an idiot to me, oh but sovereign was the only reaper with a deseign flaw! Sounds like contrived bull**** to me?
-Why does the mass effect 2 plot even exit?
-Explain how they took the citadel, the location where most of the non alliance fleet was, without a giant combat taking place? Since they succeded why wasent a massive ammount of the fleet already destroyed in that incident? Sound like the taking of the citadel, was done off screen and highly contrivient to make the final plot "cool".

 

- I can't explain the Crucible.
- It's stated that travel through mass relays is almost instantaneous which easily explains how Shepard was able to get from Ilos to the Citadel in less than 5 minutes, same with Saren.
- Because the fleet wasn't just going to "die in space". Plus I'm fairly certain they had no clue where the Crucible was being built.
- Because it needed Shepard dead so it could close the Citadel arms again. Sooner or later, Sovereign was going to get taken out and therefore couldn't risk any more ships coming through the Citadel.
- The Mass Effect 2 plot is a bit disconnected, but you can use the same logic and say, "Why does the Mass Effect 1/3 plot exist?" That's just a stupid statement.
- The Citadel fleet doesn't equal the "majority of non-alliance fleets".

[KBomb]

BleedingUranium wrote...

KBomb wrote...

The blast would have had to contain a temperature of around 1800 degrees to incinerate Shepard and even then it wouldn't be instant incineration. There would have been bone fragments either way.

Considering the silliness of having this conversation, I would say the blast would have thrown him backward, definitely not vaporizing him on the spot.

If you argue that this is a fantasy world where logic about complete incineration doesn't apply, then you have to concede that he could, in fact, survive the explosion on that same logic.

Then it was that hot, because Shepard was incinerated.

You do realize it is impossible for fire to instantly incinerate all bone, right? Even in cremation that takes a few hours at extreme temps cannot incinerate all bones. They have to be pulverized into ash. Your scenario is not only flawed, but impossible.

[Nastrod]

MacroSpamMK wrote...

The eagles rescued him.

lmao

[Smeffects]

BleedingUranium wrote...


We don't know why they might need it, there are several things it could be that have nothing to do with winning.

-They could get it one way or another without a huge fight, they have the citadel and relay control. Also see my answer about reapers theme.


Five minutes? Pretty sure it was much longer than that. 

- Mass relay travel is explained to take HOURS off screen.

Hubris. That's a bit of a theme with Reapers. And getting it all over with at once.

- That is the opposite of what the Reapers ever did, including the cycle we have information about, they swop in, take the citadel, then ignore the fleets and attack one world at a time, while they are defenseless. Our cycle is as defenseless without the relays. Travel without relays take months, years. No ship can survive without any fuel, food, etc. There is no shot at victory against the reaper without the relay, so as soon as they got the citadel, they won. Its how they always won before. If they wanted the crucible so bad, why did they stop the prothean from building it? Sounds like they werent in a hurry to get it? Destroy the chance prothean had at building it and waiting another 50000 years?


I seriously doubt that was something he was aware of.

-True, thats why its convenient bull****, give the enemy a unique weakness he knew nothing about.

To stop the abduction of hundreds of thousands of humans, to defeat the minions of the Reapers, the Collectors, and to stop the creation of a Reaper. And that's just the main plot.

They have a single ship and can only come from a single relay. Cerberus is shown with fleets, could have easily took it down and stopped it before.

It's quite possible they had agents inside close the arms like Saren did, but we don't know.

Highly possible, but there would still have been a struggle of sorts, again it was more like an off screen move to make the scenary cool.

Modifié par Smeffects, 21 janvier 2013 - 07:13 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It's a ****** poor and unconvincing execution alright, but that can be said about a good chunk of the last few minutes of the game so nothing new there.

Got something that isn't "bad riting"?

Don't need more than that really.

[Peranor]

Greylycantrope wrote...

BleedingUranium wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

It's a ****** poor and unconvincing execution alright, but that can be said about a good chunk of the last few minutes of the game so nothing new there.

Got something that isn't "bad riting"?

Don't need more than that really.

Sometimes the most simple answer is the correct one

[Steelcan]

This isn't hard.

Sorry Bleeding Uranium. But the breath scene isn't some IT tease. It's a scene meant to show Shepard surviving. Does it defy all logic and the laws of physics? You bet. But there you have it.


Sometimes "bad riting" is the answer

[Peranor]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Gam3Ov3r wrote...

 Maybe Shepard was some how teleported back to Earth.

Well, the Normandy did managed to teleport from space to Earth in five seconds during the conduit run, so it's not that far-fetched...

Never forget Twitter. Shepard is still on the Citadel