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[Display Name Owner]

Imo they need to just disregard Synthesis. That's nothing to do with my opinion on Synthesis as an ending to the series, it's just that Synthesis is the only one that's incompatible with the others. You can assume either Destroy or Control went down and make the MEverse pretty much the same - either the people rebuil the galaxy or the Reapers did it (it would be nice if the differences between the two versions could be expressed, but let's be realistic), but Synthesis is the only one that wildly changes the galaxy. Plus the way it's presented makes it seem like an end to all conflict and like EDI says leads to a future "we can't even imagine". So imo they should leave it at that, Synthesis is it's own alternate timeline where everything is 'fixed'. With the other two it's just a matter of making enough time pass after ME3 and then they end up the same.

[Dale]

This looks like another disguised Bioware marketing thread – so I’ll play along.   If you want a QUICK answer, then jump to the next post.

 

Didn't Superman die -- then years later come back?

Didn't Shep die once -- then years later come back?  (Fortunately in the SAME game!)

 

With "Your organic energy, the essence of who and what you are will be broken down and dispersed” throughout the galaxy – well, that’s going to be pretty TOUGH to recover from in ME4  – including the CONTROL path.   If ME4 begins with Shep taking the DESTROY path, then they just MIGHT be able to salvage something.  If I recall, Shep was unconscious – I think I saw a “flinch”.   The Geth are STILL salvageable in that Crucible was just plain WRONG: though it knew about the Reapers, it didn't count on Geth + reaper upgrade so the DESTROY option did not destroy the Geth.   All kinds of work-arounds.   However as others have mentioned, ME4 will likely be something ENTIRELY NEW – and I agree (with a “30.1% + 30.1%” probability).  As mentioned, you can NEVER (ever) make everyone happy (some rare exceptions @ 90%). 

 

Most people think the term “marketing” means how things are sold (packaged, displayed, & priced).   Yes, that’s part of it, but the other aspects require intense research that DIRECTS the course of development of a product.  As the saying goes: “nobody wants a laser-operated 100% sure-catch mousetrap for $500”.   I have personally seen $600k funds spent in R&D on a product that nobody wants.   Heads rolled.

 

In PART of my career, I’ve worked in technical marketing for 6 years -- engineering [original] performance research scenarios & doing them…then meeting with other team members to cover the psychological aspects.   In our vice president’s office was a sign hanging on the wall behind his desk which had the word ASSUME in a red circle with diagonal line drawn thru it.   In a team of about 150 marketers (alias musketeers), about every 8^th person in the department had their Post-Hole-Digger degree.    These are very smart people.   With big bucks at stake, you cannot afford to antagonize your clientele, investors, and marketing analysts.    Many skateboarders (who buy games with their allowance) are oblivious to all this. 

 

However corporate blunders DO occur -- when the incumbent leadership surrounds themselves with people telling them what they want to hear.   Marketing blunders?  “The NEW taste of Coke” is a good example.   Phufff!  YUCK!   Ford Edsel, quadraphonic stereo (mid 70’s), and a few others.  

 

Most of the time, a good [research] marketing team hits right on.   Alternatively, where a marketing RESEARCH miserably fails, the marketing SALES attempts to make up.  Example; Microsoft has the brightest and smartest marketing (sales) in the world as they can convince you to buy garbage (Vista) and make you believe it was worth it (yes, it was a 32-to-64 bit transition) – but now the incentive to upgrade from W7 to W8 is the power OFF icon has been moved from the LEFT to the RIGHT side – plus other nonsense.   Such progress!   Need to keep up with that “other” computer company.

 

Consider on this forum the black & white division of affection & bitter-hatred towards certain characters.  Same ANY game.  In this case (for example), marketing MUST tally the percentages (both ways) and this information works its way into character development.   Think in dollars & cents:  if 50% hate a character, then something needs to be changed.   Alternatively, if only 10% do, then THAT’S LIFE (people just hate each other for various reasons – usually [valid] personal reasons).   VERY generally speaking, 1-in-50 express their opinion.  That ratio varies per subject & industry.   Note the ratio of thread “posts” to “readers”.  On YouTube, note the percentage of thumbs-up votes compared to thumbs-down votes (never got a birthday cake, or date, flunked football trials,  & hates everybody).  Bioware’s marketing department will obviously take note of how this forum will become significantly less active when school starts in a couple weeks.

 

In a specialized “grey” area of marketing (like gaming) – YES, you DO have to make some “assumptions” … mostly calculated.    With the industry now in decade#2, fewer mistakes are tolerated.   In ME3’s situation, I’ve pointed out that it could have easily achieved a 98 metascore – however the ending made it like a Rolls Royce without a muffler.   I can imagine Bioware’s marketing department having an animate heated argument with the story designers -- that probably went like this: 

 

“Over years, the 73% mid & right-brained players have grown to like & become attached to the characters in the series.  [the Citadel party & mission proved that]   Are you plain NUTS?   You want to kill them off one-by-one & finally Shep?   At LEAST have a victory ending that shows success!”.  The response was likely “we have 2 months to deliver.   OPINION noted -- get lost!”    The point: deliver NOW… get paid NOW…and afterward worry about finding a “scape goat” & submitting their resume elsewhere.  Look at this from a purely business perspective.   This happens all the time in the business world – all day, every day.    I'm writing this on another computer (Origin not installed) but consider how in ME1 there was no DLC (that I could find).  In ME2, there were about half-dozen.   In ME3 about a dozen.   What does that plainly tell you?   Now "RPG" has a new meaning for me:  Remainder Part of the Game".

 

Like many of you, I will be watching the ME4 forums before even THINKING about purchasing.   Even if we DO purchase, we will probably be “gun shy” to develop any emotional attachment to a character.  Some of you think you’re bullet proof, but you’re not fooling anybody.   No, we are NOT potted plants or the Geth -- though some of the upper LEFT-brained geeks I work with are as exciting as a sack of cement.    

 

Yes, we’re BIG boys & girls & can put some “annoyances” aside and make the most of enjoying the series.  Heck, I still love to watch Roadrunner cartoons --- which is unequivocal proof I’m still a kid.  However if we players spill our emotional blood & guts (add a little intellectual to it), it is REASONABLE to be correspondingly compensated – rather than being kicked in the butt with 3 different boots.   That Citadel party (for an ending) would have made Bioware come out smelling like a rose & many would have kissed their feet!

  

Finally Bioware -- the only solution (in my humble expert opinion) is for ME4 to have some HONORABLE closure to ME3 – THEN they can start a new series any way they want – making an occasional reference to our “still living & loving” heroes (that some on the forum despise after playing faithfully for 4 years).    If Bioware avoids that – then – well -- there won’t be a ME5 for sure.

[AlanC9]

What do you mean by "honorable"?

[KaiserShep]

Stand in the pool of a million fans' tears, and ask the devs if honor matters.

[Dale]

Stand in the pool of a million fans' tears, and ask the devs if honor matters.

KaiserShep's definition cannot possibly be inproved upon (IMO).

-Thx Kaiser!

[Dale]

What do you mean by "honorable"?

I wish I had the summary skills & brevity of KaiserShep…so bear with me…

 

Generally speaking, HONOR is usually something EARNED.  Instead, Shep has been reduced to a bloody mess and manipulated &cranked thru Catalyst’s meat grinder.    Honor?  Sadists might think so.

 

In the entire series, Shep was not allowed to discover anything (zero, zilch, nada) to defeat a reaper INVASION.   Granted, Shep took out a few supersquids in the series, but there are countless THOUSANDS of them!   As pointed out earlier – yes, Shep STOPPED an invasion but defeating an INVASION (in progress) is quite a separate thing entirely.

 

All his blood, sweat, & tears to unite the galaxy amounted to only two (2) things I could see:

 

1. Acquire resources to build & deliver the Crucible.
2. Military resources so Shep could reach the “beam me up Scotty” location.

 

Think about this thoroughly:  If each reaper represents the collective knowledge of an entire galaxy, then thousands of reapers represent corresponding thousands of galaxies of [advanced] knowledge & intelligence.   Mind boggling.

 

Now imagine 10 million krogan on a vast plain shooting bullets at a single mile-high supersquid that is “impervious to dreadnaught fire”.    BFD if foot soldiers take out husks & other mindless minions.

 

Even if the united fleet of 10,000 warships ships take out 100 reapers so what?   The bottom line is: you’re fighting countless thousands of galaxies of combined advanced technology & intelligence.  This enemy is so incredibly powerful that all Shep’s efforts are a spit wad against a granite wall…and that was obvious when Shep was cranked thru Catalyst’s meat grinder.   Was that an “honorable” outcome?  And not just Shep but all his teammates & support characters (ME1, ME2, ME3).

 

Some would say “let the reapers remain a mystery”.   Utter RUBBISH!   Knowing your enemy is the key.  This is military 101.   Some of you combat veterans reading this know, you don’t just kick down a door and barge into a room.   Knowing your enemy is knowing their tactics & technology (like a Russian-made booby trap).   Imagine a military briefing: “Today we will assault your GENERIC enemy.   We know nothing about them, what they look like, or the weapons or tactics they use”.   That would NOT inspire my confidence!

 

You obviously “can’t defeat them conventionally” so SOMETHNG ELSE needs to be done.   Honorable (to me) is Shep & company discovering that “something” -- working smarter, not harder.   There’s no shortage of good ideas out there…but to suggest an HONORABLE game, may I propose something that goes like this:

 

TIM in his attempt to control a reaper, broadcasts a frequency that backfires – instead of controlling a reaper, the frequency renders a reaper inert.

 

Shep, EDI, and the other 106 year old scientist, board a reaper and locate its galactic information archives.   HOLY SH*T!   What possibilities this could reveal  – a Mass Effect universe that could go in 100 different directions!   Weapons, transporter technology, music, art, science, literature – the sky’s the limit.

 

Then construct a “bootstrap” VI that could more efficiently upgrade Glyph to search for reaper weaknesses to render inert (not destroy) the entire reaper fleet.  You can imagine how this could go in all kinds of directions (good or bad).

 

Eventually (working smarter), Shep deploys the plan which results in one of the following:

 

• Accidently destroys the entire universe.
• Accidently destroys the entire galaxy.
• Accidently destroys the Normandy.
• Accidently destroys all the reapers.
• Accidently combines the collective knowledge of all reapers into an unknown construct (like the Geth did) with who-knows-what outcome.
• Renders reapers inactive.
• Reprogram the reapers (for fill-in-the-blank)

 

(I’m sure you guys out there could add a few dozen more outcomes).

 

Now THAT might be a better scenario for an HONORABLE ending (than the inevitable meat grinder).   Party at the Citadel.   Extremely difficult mission accomplished…honorably.

[DuskWanderer]

KaiserShep's definition cannot possibly be inproved upon (IMO).

-Thx Kaiser!

 

Maybe if he had Asami instead of Korra...

 

 

Anyway, I don't think they can. Face it, you can't please everyone. However, in general, I find the best way to please fans is to look at four things from all three games:

 

1.) The things most fans said that they liked. Some people may not like them, but if they don't talk about them, it doesn't matter too much. If the general chatter is someone liked something, do something similar

 

2.) The things people hated. Find out why, and don't do them.

 

3.) For things that polarized, check for common themes and do the first two

 

4.) For things people specifically mentioned as improved, treasure them.

[mybudgee]

They cannot. It will inevitably disappoint. (Unless you don't give Biower a chance to let you down)

[TheLittleBird]

Isn't ME4 going to take place before the endings anyway? Or was that just a rumour. Yeah, might have been a rumour.

 

I can tell you for sure though that there's no way the next Mass Effect game will take place after ME3's endings. No way. With impacts on the galaxy on that scale?

[Fixers0]

Bioware won't even try to keep everyone happy. Which is actually a good thing, fanserivce, among others, is what crushed and ultimately destroyed the ME series.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Stand in the pool of a million fans' tears, and ask the devs if honor matters.

 

Would have "liked." Quota of likes for the day reached.

 

Setting is 100 years in the future. Control of Reapers is disregarded. Everything is repaired. Synthetics wander around (Soon, your children will build synthetics). People have cybernetic implants that allow them to interact with synthetics and allow synthetics to easily understand them. There is no fear between organic and synthetic. The war was won. The reapers were destroyed.

[Farangbaa]

Would have "liked." Quota of likes for the day reached.

What's the reasoning behind this quotum anyway?

We have to be protected from liking too many things?

It's baffling.

[ZipZap2000]

I just hope they don't overreact to our reaction, to the last games ending and gives us sunshine, rainbows and an incredibly long boss battle. Just making it slightly less depressing would be fine.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

What's the reasoning behind this quotum anyway?

We have to be protected from liking too many things?

It's baffling.

 

Some of us try to spread too much joy and happiness about the Bioware forum and the powers that be cannot have this be a happy place.

[SporkFu]

Some of us try to spread too much joy and happiness about the Bioware forum and the powers that be cannot have this be a happy place.

Unhappiness spread by like-limits: 1.

Joy and Happiness: 0. 

 

shep: Garrus, snipe that scorekeeper dammit. 

Garrus: Sorry shep, I'm setting up a date with a rich asari. She's the last of her line, and she's getting a little desperate. Just the way I like 'em. 

shep: Fine. I'll do it my- Heyyy. 

Garrus *snicker*

[b10d1v]

I had a thought that skirts around the time restrictions using ME4 as a collection of mini stories about the council worlds:

1. The young shepherd in Elysium, coordinating and defending a group of grad students during Batarian slaver raids, 

2. Anderson and his specter missions and how it all went wrong,

3. Professor Mordin Solus and his work in virology for various species maybe some mid ME2 and ME3 work with Garrus's sister for the Turian government,

4. Asari Matriarch missions for Thessia

4.a  Aria and why she left Asari space and

4.b The young Samara developing into a Justicar touring Asari space

4.c mostly science and technology of mass relays and zeo, maybe finding the citadel helping other races.

5. The Batarian fall from the council and subsequent discovery of the dead reaper and the early problems

6. Of course some Geth missions, maybe "Legion" - w/o the hole in its chest and another name, working for the consensus building advanced structures and investigating Dark Energy -the troubles with Dohlen.  More on what the Geth preserved concerning the quarians, especially Ancestral AIs.

7. Some Quarian missions concerning early issues after the Morning war -isolated in space

 

8. ME3's ending is problemattic with all the decisions that made or did not make the cut.

However, the Dark energy connection to ezo and/or some nefarious entity should be covered.  Dohlen is "infected" with "dark energy" - how did this happen and how do we determine the threat?  You can teach scientific method here.

Just ignore the ME3 ending, as even a mid ME2 to ME3 time line is questionable.  Just discuss "theoretically" how the Geth/Quarians would approach the problem and maybe request council help Asari, Turian and Salarians mostly, but Volus might be helpful maybe a Batarian scientist as well.

 

Each item above could be unique quest lines as in "Leliana's song" and others for DAO or as a coordinated list of ascending quest items in some cases.

[KaiserShep]

What's the reasoning behind this quotum anyway?

We have to be protected from liking too many things?

It's baffling.

Maybe it's to promote being more discerning with the comments you care to like. If you like everything, you like nothing!

[SporkFu]

Maybe it's to promote being more discerning with the comments you care to like. If you like everything, you like nothing!

I read that in this guy's voice:

[TheMyron]

The people openly hated how Zaeed's and Kasumi's ME2 conversations were on "one-sided autopilot", and yet Bioware figured it would/could be best if HALF of all ME3 conversations were on "auto-dialogue".

[Farangbaa]

The people openly hated how Zaeed's and Kasumi's ME2 conversations were on "one-sided autopilot", and yet Bioware figured it would/could be best if HALF of all ME3 conversations were on "auto-dialogue".

I didn't care. Meant I didn't have to talk to them at all. ME2's Normandy time is full of chores already

[YouKnowMyName]

Should they try to keep everyone happy though?

 

Wasn't it that line of thought that led to some of the flaws in ME2 and ME3?

 

Well, one thing is certain for the developers of ME4:

 

"Many decisions lie ahead, none of them easy".

[Vazgen]

How is Bioware going to keep everyone happy in ME4? It's impossible. Even implementing all variables in different storylines will leave some people unhappy. I say, pick a direction and stick with it, developing the game as much as possible and making it great as a standalone game in ME universe.

[CptFalconPunch]

I didn't care. Meant I didn't have to talk to them at all. ME2's Normandy time is full of chores already

 Maybe that means we needed to have less teammates? Or talk to them throughout the storyline?  AKA Wrex on Virmire?

 

Character development through the story, less one-on-one time. It makes it feel more special.

[Allison_Lightning]

Free cupcakes with red, blue and green icing? And not to forget the Refuse option, a final cupcake with white icing writing on top 'Good job breaking it, hero'. Take you selected ending cupcake and that's your ending catered for.